CARNEY STRIKES BACK AGAINST INCREASED US TARIFFS BY LOWERING OUR COUNTER TARIFFS EVEN FURTHER.

[CdnFox]

Carney hints at dropping some U.S. tariffs if it will help Canadian industries hit by trade war | CBC News

Sigh, i'm not even kidding.  He's saying that in order to fight us tariffs he'll lower counter tariffs (which was how he was supposed to pay for helping industries) even further .

"Stop tariffing us or in retaliation we'll completely stop tariffing you!!" 

er..... 

 SIgh. We are so effed. 

[herbie]

Yeah I know it's hard for you to understand the fact that WE pay those tariffs. so if business needs to buy supplies to make things, a tariff makes them less competitive.
Just like how if an American company needs Cdn aluminum it hurts them even if there's a US supplier because they charge more. And if they do spent billions in planning and construction it will take a long time and they'll charge even more.

 

 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

SIgh. We are so effed. 

51st, resistance is futile. Let us know when you want to throw in the towel eh?

Edited August 6, 2025 by paxamericana

[Aristides]

Not sure why we should penalize Canadians when they are already turning away from the US without tariffs. Trump's tariffs are driving up costs for Americans. 

I know I will go out of my way to avoid buying American even if it costs me more. Shame, I never used to be like that.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, paxamericana said:

51st, resistance is futile. Let us know when you want to throw in the towel eh?

Did the states is such a mess right now it makes effed look good,  

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

Not sure why we should penalize Canadians when they are already turning away from the US without tariffs. Trump's tariffs are driving up costs for Americans. 

 

Well that's because it's three reasons.

One, you're not terribly bright and don't understand how this stuff works,

two there is a certain critical mass to these sorts of things and if you're not causing enough pain you might as well not be causing any pain, you have to maximize the damage and

three, trump smells weakness and if you back down or appear to retreat he will double his efforts to come after you.  Which is basically how it's been going for us so far.  You cannot afford to give up ANYTHING without getting something for it. 

[Aristides]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well that's because it's three reasons.

One, you're not terribly bright and don't understand how this stuff works,

two there is a certain critical mass to these sorts of things and if you're not causing enough pain you might as well not be causing any pain, you have to maximize the damage and

three, trump smells weakness and if you back down or appear to retreat he will double his efforts to come after you.  Which is basically how it's been going for us so far.  You cannot afford to give up ANYTHING without getting something for it. 

How does causing Canadians pain cause Americans pain? If you are going to cause pain, make sure there is a payoff. We haven't given up anything yet. 

American tariffs will help manufacturing in Canada as well. Canadians that buy US products made with tariffed Canadian materials will make manufacturing those products in Canada more attractive.

Edited August 6, 2025 by Aristides

[Shady]

14 hours ago, herbie said:

Yeah I know it's hard for you to understand the fact that WE pay those tariffs. so if business needs to buy supplies to make things, a tariff makes them less competitive.
Just like how if an American company needs Cdn aluminum it hurts them even if there's a US supplier because they charge more. And if they do spent billions in planning and construction it will take a long time and they'll charge even more.

 

 

Then why did he say he would retaliate with dollar for dollar tariffs during the election campaign?  Did he just figure out that Canadians would be paying those tariffs?   Elbows up!  LOL

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Carney hints at dropping some U.S. tariffs if it will help Canadian industries hit by trade war | CBC News

Sigh, i'm not even kidding.  He's saying that in order to fight us tariffs he'll lower counter tariffs (which was how he was supposed to pay for helping industries) even further .

"Stop tariffing us or in retaliation we'll completely stop tariffing you!!" 

er..... 

 SIgh. We are so effed. 

Carney has a plan. He's two moves ahead of you:

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, herbie said:

Yeah I know it's hard for you to understand the fact that WE pay those tariffs. so if business needs to buy supplies to make things, a tariff makes them less competitive.
Just like how if an American company needs Cdn aluminum it hurts them even if there's a US supplier because they charge more. And if they do spent billions in planning and construction it will take a long time and they'll charge even more.

Herbie, this is what's happening:

1. US markets are essentially closed for business for Canadians. If we want to sell our stuff there, the price of it is jacked up by the US gov't tariffs, so consumers won't buy it. American companies can charge 12% more for their products and they're still 13% lower than our prices. Get it? Trump's tariffs are hamstringing Canadian businesses. They are putting Canadians out of work. They are lowering Canada's GDP, and even worse, they are cutting into our global exports. FYI Canadians want to bring in a lot of cell phones, cars, and other consumer goods every year, but the amount of goods that were are exporting is going down. It is hurting our country to a FAR greater extent than it is hurting the US economy. 
2. If the 10% of goods on the market in the US that come from Canada go up by 25% in price, does that mean that prices in the US go up by 25%, or does it just mean that more Americans buy American-made products, increasing their own economy? 
3. Canadian markets are opening up like an oyster, and American businesses are more free than ever to sell their products here. And that makes Canadian businesses even less competitive. They're getting hit from both sides.

I know that the topic of economics is above your comprehension, at scale, but I will give you a little hint of how businesses work.

If you start a business in a large market, you don't have to ship your products very far to get them to market, saving you money. Also, you can probably get a lot of your supplies and component parts locally, saving you money there. You can open up a factory and hire 400 workers and it's just a blip on the radar, so it doesn't increase wages locally, which would make your own labour more expensive (if you opened up a plant like that in a place like Flin-Flon it would drive unemployment down and drive wages up instantly). If the Dems are in power, you have access to thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants who can't get paid on the books, so they will work for dirt cheap, and there are no benefits to be paid to them. Not even holiday pay. No sick pay. Nothing. If they show up they get paid less than they're worth, if they don't they get nothing. Can you get away with that in Flin-Flon? No way. The workers there all get full pay, and holiday pay for sure, most likely they all get at least some form of extended benefits in a factory/plant. To top it all off, there's a tariff if you wanna try to compete with US companies across the border. 

A business 100 miles west of the eastern seaboard of the US has quick access to 100M consumers. No border-crossings. No tariffs. No accounting fees for tracking those expenses. Money, money, money, money, money. 

A business in southern Ontario has access to 20M people, but if they want to sell in America, there's the border traffic to deal with. And high tariffs now. 

 

Under Trump/Carney, that business in the US with access to 100M people there also has access to 20M people in southern Ont and Que, 120M people. But the businesses here that have access to 20M people don't have access to the 100M-person market. They sell to 120M people, our businesses sell to 20M people. 

Trump wants all the auto manufacturing herbie. The cars, the parts, the whole kit & kaboodle. 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Trump wants all the auto manufacturing herbie. The cars, the parts, the whole kit & kaboodle. 

Yes this is our master plan. All your base are belong to us. Unless 51st.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

How does causing Canadians pain cause Americans pain?

Come on, that should be easy enough to work out even for you. Canadians will then buy less things, or it will now become affordable to buy from alternate markets, possibly Canadian. That in turn means that the united states companies sell less and make a lower profit. That causes them financial hardship. Yes it absolutely causes our people financial hardship as well however because it causes them hardship they will tend to pressure their politicians to find a way to resolve the issue.

Trump responds well to that kind of pressure, it's the only thing he has responded to. We saw this precisely with the automotive industry where he was forced to back off of the majority of his tariffs.

So the idea is we suffer but we make them suffer as well and that pressures for a resolution. 

If you are going to cause pain, make sure there is a payoff. We haven't given up anything yet. 

Quote

American tariffs will help manufacturing in Canada as well. Canadians that buy US products made with tariffed Canadian materials will make manufacturing those products in Canada more attractive.

No, that's just dumb. What happens is the Americans wind up sourcing more of their materials and such from inside the united states and away from Canada so when we buy their products we're buying more American stuff and less Canadian stuff. This is already beginning to happen.

However if we tear up the American items then it does actually make it easier for our own people to be competitive, and it gives the government money in hand to provide subsidies or support necessary to help with that.

This was Carney's entire argument early on, the budget he put out for his election campaign specifically relied on the money from tariffs to be able to support Industries and pressure The Americans, and everybody knew it was a good idea at the time.

But now he's caved like a wet blanket and trump is walking all over him

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Shady said:

Then why did he say he would retaliate with dollar for dollar tariffs during the election campaign?  Did he just figure out that Canadians would be paying those tariffs?   Elbows up!  LOL

He probably reasoned it was the right thing to say at the time and since then things have changed. It seemed it was Canada taking the biggest brunt of Trump's tariff war at first but now he's taken it worldwide.

Now Trump has boxed America in just as Americans are starting to feel the effects of tariffs. Now that everyone is under tariffs there is nowhere for America to seek cheaper alternatives and no reason for tariffed countries to compete.

There is no need to hurt ourselves to get at Trump. He's very successfully shooting himself in the head.

Elbows can be maintained in a more neutral position. We have plenty of dry powder left. If we need to for example we can jack up their energy costs.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Come on, that should be easy enough to work out even for you. Canadians will then buy less things, or it will now become affordable to buy from alternate markets, possibly Canadian. That in turn means that the united states companies sell less and make a lower profit. That causes them financial hardship. Yes it absolutely causes our people financial hardship as well however because it causes them hardship they will tend to pressure their politicians to find a way to resolve the issue.

Trump responds well to that kind of pressure, it's the only thing he has responded to. We saw this precisely with the automotive industry where he was forced to back off of the majority of his tariffs.

So the idea is we suffer but we make them suffer as well and that pressures for a resolution. 

If you are going to cause pain, make sure there is a payoff. We haven't given up anything yet. 

No, that's just dumb. What happens is the Americans wind up sourcing more of their materials and such from inside the united states and away from Canada so when we buy their products we're buying more American stuff and less Canadian stuff. This is already beginning to happen.

However if we tear up the American items then it does actually make it easier for our own people to be competitive, and it gives the government money in hand to provide subsidies or support necessary to help with that.

This was Carney's entire argument early on, the budget he put out for his election campaign specifically relied on the money from tariffs to be able to support Industries and pressure The Americans, and everybody knew it was a good idea at the time.

But now he's caved like a wet blanket and trump is walking all over him

People are already buying less US, looking for alternatives and avoiding travel without tariffs. If they stop doing that then maybe tariffs will be necessary but for now, Canadians are pissed enough at the US that they aren't needed.

Trump has backed off some of the tariffs on the auto industry because of the manufacturers, not because of counter tariffs. GM has been eating the tariffs and took a $1.1 Billion earnings hit in the first quarter because of Trump tariffs, not Canadian tariffs and expects a 4-5 billion hit for the year.  So far Trump has been doing our work for us. 

The US sources minerals etc from outside because they can't produce them economically themselves or just don't have them, not because they are doing anyone favours. The higher their costs, the less competitive they are whether it is from tariffs or cost of production. 

I agree that using any tariff revenues should go to help affected industries but remember who will be paying them. 

Carney hasn't caved on anything yet, that's why we don't have a deal. 

Edited August 6, 2025 by Aristides

[Shady]

56 minutes ago, eyeball said:

He probably reasoned it was the right thing to say at the time and since then things have changed. It seemed it was Canada taking the biggest brunt of Trump's tariff war at first but now he's taken it worldwide.

Now Trump has boxed America in just as Americans are starting to feel the effects of tariffs. Now that everyone is under tariffs there is nowhere for America to seek cheaper alternatives and no reason for tariffed countries to compete.

There is no need to hurt ourselves to get at Trump. He's very successfully shooting himself in the head.

Elbows can be maintained in a more neutral position. We have plenty of dry powder left. If we need to for example we can jack up their energy costs.

He reasoned that now?  Didn't take any of that into consideration a few months ago?  Regardless, do you realize that we have to send energy to eastern Canada through American pipelines that run through Michigan?  

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

He reasoned that now?  Didn't take any of that into consideration a few months ago?  Regardless, do you realize that we have to send energy to eastern Canada through American pipelines that run through Michigan?  

That's the first pipeline that should be built but if Trump shuts that tap off, we have an even bigger tap to shut off so I'm not worried about it. 

[paxamericana]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

an even bigger tap to shut off

If relations ever got that bad let’s just say Canada will cease to exist.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

He probably reasoned it was the right thing to say at the time and since then things have change

Absolutely nothing changed.

He lied. The guy you supported and thought was the best choice turned out to be an abject liar again. And he is going to wind up harming the country in the same way the last loser you supported did, Trudeau.

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

If relations ever got that bad let’s just say Canada will cease to exist.

It would never happen. We would crash the American economy right along with it, Canada is your number one biggest trading partner by far and there is no replacing it. You guys would all be living in parks eating tins of dog food I'm afraid

Long before then everybody would come to the table and make a deal

[paxamericana]

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Absolutely nothing changed.

He lied. The guy you supported and thought was the best choice turned out to be an abject liar again. And he is going to wind up harming the country in the same way the last loser you supported did, Trudeau.

It would never happen. We would crash the American economy right along with it, Canada is your number one biggest trading partner by far and there is no replacing it. You guys would all be living in parks eating tins of dog food I'm afraid

Long before then everybody would come to the table and make a deal

We trade more with Mexico and look how high the wall got. You Canucks should be thankful we didn’t catch more of your fentanyl.

Edited August 6, 2025 by paxamericana

[Aristides]

23 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

We trade more with Mexico and look how high the wall got. You Canucks should be thankful we didn’t catch more of your fentanyl.

Canada is your biggest export customer by far.  Or was.

https://economics.td.com/ca-canada-us-trade-balance

You are such a blowhard. It's hilarious.

[eyeball]

57 minutes ago, Shady said:

He reasoned that now?

At the time I said, as clear as day.

WTF is wrong with hard boiled right wing conservatives reading comprehension these days? Is it a virus of some kind?

59 minutes ago, Shady said:

Didn't take any of that into consideration a few months ago?

He's obviously taking things into consideration on the fly. Everyone has to do that when the most powerful human in the known universe is behaving like a hummingbird on crack.

1 hour ago, Shady said:

Regardless, do you realize that we have to send energy to eastern Canada through American pipelines that run through Michigan?  

Sure, but it's not the only energy corridor we have access too.

In any case doing nothing is still a viable option while Trump is still doing more damage than we could inflict.

[herbie]

Hard to discuss things with people who's hatred of Carney and the Liberals clouds the slightest understanding of economics, trade, or diplomacy and are egged on by foreign agitators, isn't it Aristides?

Who's desire for revenge and punishment hides every issue from any common sense.

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, herbie said:

Hard to discuss things with people who's hatred of Carney and the Liberals clouds the slightest understanding of economics, trade, or diplomacy and are egged on by foreign agitators, isn't it Aristides?

Who's desire for revenge and punishment hides every issue from any common sense.

Seems so.

[Legato]

2 minutes ago, herbie said:

Hard to discuss things with people who's hatred of Carney and the Liberals clouds the slightest understanding of economics, trade, or diplomacy and are egged on by foreign agitators, isn't it Aristides?

Who's desire for revenge and punishment hides every issue from any common sense.

Hard to discuss things with people who's hatred of Poilievre and the Conservatives clouds the slightest understanding of economics, trade, or diplomacy and are egged on by foreign agitators, isn't it Aristides?

Who's desire for revenge and punishment hides every issue from any common sense.

[eyeball]

Just now, Legato said:

Hard to discuss things with people

People have seen this moment coming for decades now.

At least the people of Babel tried to cooperate.