Chrystia Freeland playing with fire in suggesting Canada be in a nuclear alliance with Britain and France

[Dougie93]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

  That will require serious air and sea capabilities and bases in the far north. 

unless you are going to purchase Ship Submersible Nuclear Fast Attack Submarines from the British or French,

it's all for nought,

as the strategic threat is in fact blockade at sea,

the French production line is fully engaged with building the Suffren class,

so it's only BAE Systems at Barrow-in-Furness which is available, just completing the last Astute class now

Canada has the money, and I can't see the UK turning down a twenty billion dollar contract,

if I was advising Marc Carney, I would say go big or go home,

fly to London, enlist HM into the fight, then sign the deal with Keir Starmer to buy the submarines,

the Liberals are invoking war for national survival ; no half measures then, go all the way

if they are just going to dick around with a base at Iqaluit or whatever, then they are not actually serious

[Zeitgeist]

24 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

massive incineration of enemies is unrealistic for Canada,

Canada is like Ukraine ; asymmetrical warfare against larger opponents,

on the bright side, HM Canadian Armed Forces don't have much obsolete equipment left in the inventory,

so Canada could simply join the Ukrainians in a bilateral security agreement,

send what is left of HM Canadian Army to Ukraine,

adopt the Ukrainian way of warfare once there,

bring the Ukrainians to Canada, to fill out the ranks as instructors

time to think outside of the box now,

British North America ; what would Winston Churchill do ?

It’s interesting because I’m critical of the West’s involvement in Ukraine, as well as NATO’s expansion east.  I think Russia should’ve been embraced early on as a security partner following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and I think the war in Ukraine is the result of broken trust due to broken promises.

However, Putin is clearly a quasi-dictator in a de facto oligarchy who is seeing what he can get away with militarily.  Not sharing intelligence with Ukraine means that Ukraine loses defensive capability.  Trump blew it on that score and the world won’t forget it.  While a diplomatic solution should’ve been sought between Russia and Ukraine early on, and we shouldn’t have given Ukraine a false sense of its hard power against Russia, we can’t now leave Ukraine at the mercy of an aggressive invader.  Trump has been a weak negotiator with Russia.

On the other hand, Trudeau is using neo-con language in his description of Putin as a bloodthirsty liar.  I don’t want to see Canada become captive to a dubious proxy war that will align Canada against Russia long-term, as we have been allies in the past and there are cultural connections.  Russia and Ukraine are also very similar to each other, and Ukraine’s history is highly interwoven with Russia’s, including with regard to territory.

What must never be lost in this situation is the importance of local democratic self-determination.  People need to decide in all the different parts of Ukraine who they want representing them and which country they are in.  We understand this in Canada in our acceptance of referendums.  The U.S. should support these basic democratic principles.  Otherwise many countries could end up where Ukraine is, including Canada.  Ukraine, like Canada, needs to be able to defend its democratically chosen pathway, as long as it isn’t at the expense of other democracies.  The reality is that parts of Ukraine may democratically choose to be part of Russia.  Basically we should support the democratic self-determination of Ukraine’s regions.  UN blue helmets might be able to play an important role in this, including assuring that fair elections take place.  

Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s interesting because I’m critical of the West’s involvement in Ukraine, as well as NATO’s expansion east.  I think Russia should’ve been embraced early on as a security partner following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and I think the war in Ukraine is the result of broken trust due to broken promises.

I never viewed that as being a realistic prospect,

I knew the Russians would be ravanchist about their collapse as far back as the mid 1990's

I been predicting a second Cold War since America pulled out of the ABM Treaty in 2002,

I never endorsed Donald Trump and I did not vote for him,

I none the less welcomed his onset bringing on the collapse of the Post Cold War Order,

because that order was already a zombie legacy project which had failed,

something had to break the dam ; force the British Crown to recognize that the war is already in progress,

chaos is a ladder ; with crisis comes opportunity, nobody is going to fight until they are forced to

[Dougie93]

35 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What must never be lost in this situation is the importance of local democratic self-determination. 

the British people are committed to defending Ukraine, it's an overwhelming majority

time to have the courage of those convictions now;

British troops on Ukrainian soil, never mind the Americans,

we'll drag the Americans into the fight kicking & screaming, just as in the World Wars

[Zeitgeist]

34 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I never viewed that as being a realistic prospect,

I knew the Russians would be ravanchist about their collapse as far back as the mid 1990's

I been predicting a second Cold War since America pulled out of the ABM Treaty in 2002,

I never endorsed Donald Trump and I did not vote for him,

I none the less welcomed his onset bringing on the collapse of the Post Cold War Order,

because that order was already a zombie legacy project which had failed,

something had to break the dam ; force the British Crown to recognize that the war is already in progress,

chaos is a ladder ; with crisis comes opportunity, nobody is going to fight until they are forced to

I just don’t think it’s in anyone’s interests to have massive rearmament internationally.  We may not have a choice in the West as China expands its reach.  Canada does have to expand its military significantly.  It’s hard to tell what kind of world order Trump is trying to establish, other than to cut the costs of America’s international involvement. He’s probably thinking that re-engaging Russia including re-establishing economic trade will prevent BRIC dominance and loss of the U.S. dollar as the world reserve currency.

He is smart to get other Western countries to foot more of the security costs for the West.  He’s also smart to raise questions about the kinds of values we are defending. Russia understands this, as they have taken an anti-woke stance which is certainly better for local cultural protection and domestic fertility rates.  In that regard Canada has to dump the radical left nonsense yesterday, which is why the Liberals need to go and Canada needs to shift right just to come back to centre and sensible policy.  The problem with Trump’s 51st state rhetoric is that it’s preventing Canada from making an important course correction in the culture wars, as Canadians are rallying behind the current government, which happens to be the most radical left Liberal government in history.

Trump has underestimated Canada’s national pride and international influence.  He should speak directly to Canadians about his respect for Canadians and their historic contributions, as well as assure them of respecting our sovereignty.  Fix that relationship, open up the prospect of an economic union in North America between sovereign countries that expands opportunities for the citizens of both countries, but emphasize the importance of Canada pulling its weight and paying its fair share in NATO.  Be honest on trade unfairness rather than point at red herrings like fentanyl coming from Canada or a $200 billion trade deficit (it’s more like $60 billion and they buy discounted oil from us).

Canada needs to get real but so does the U.S.   I don’t think the Liberals are the ones to do it, but the Conservatives may not get a chance to lead if Trump doesn’t stop pissing off Canadians.  

Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Trump is a madman and always was,

but he is serving a purpose ;

force the British Crown to take the lead in NATO, because there's nobody else who can

we are at the threshold of mobilization in a war for national survival,

and rightly so,

Cuidich 'n Righ

Well I’ve always thought that Britain has more moral authority than the US, but Britain like Canada seems to struggle to uphold its independence in the face of international pressure to abandon its cultural roots and norms.  The U.S. has more strength to go it alone. Canada really needs to back its own cultural identity and back its independence with greater military and economic might. Ukraine is simply another venue for Canada to defend democratic values, thereby reaffirming democratic self-determination everywhere.

Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

   I don’t think the Liberals are the ones to do it, but the Conservatives may not get a chance to lead if Trump doesn’t stop pissing off Canadians.  

even if the Conservatives get in, they will not be Anti-American enough to satisfy Canadian outrage,

Chrystia Freeland is going for broke ; nuke the White House into the stone age !

that's where Canadians are now,

the Liberals hate the Republicans with a passion, the Conservatives don't really have an answer for that,

the Conservatives are still negotiating while the Liberals are mobilizing for war

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

even if the Conservatives get in, they will not be Anti-American enough to satisfy Canadian outrage,

Chrystia Freeland is going for broke ; nuke the White House into the stone age !

that's where Canadians are now,

the Liberals hate the Republicans with a passion, the Conservatives don't really have an answer for that,

the Conservatives are still negotiating while the Liberals are mobilizing for war

I do think Freeland should play a role in trade negotiations with Trump just to watch the US negotiating team’s skin crawl.  She should go in there demanding that the U.S. reinstate affirmative action and increase DEI spending and programs as an essential condition of any trade deal, oh and the removal of the 2nd Amendment just to keep Canadians “safe”.   lol.  Get your popcorn.  

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I do think Freeland should play a role in trade negotiations with Trump

I don't think Canada should negotiate with Trump at all,

Canada should just put export duties on Canadian energy, while letting Trump's tariffs do the damage on top,

don't even speak to Washington, stop lobbying them, just ignore them,

start negotiating with the Chinese instead, learn to play hardball;  America's game right back at them

[PIK]

Trump is not going to be around forever. I doubt he finishes his term. And it won't matter if Vance becomes President. No Trump, No MAGA. And Vance can then pay for trumps crimes.Lol

[eyeball]

20 minutes ago, PIK said:

Trump is not going to be around forever. I doubt he finishes his term. And it won't matter if Vance becomes President. No Trump, No MAGA. And Vance can then pay for trumps crimes.Lol

I can't imagine anyone would be stupid enough to not order a hit on Vance as well. I'm afraid he'd be even worse than Trump when it came to selling out to a bully like Putin.  Don't forget he was a never-Trumper before he was a forever-Trumper. 

[herbie]

Vance wouldn't have to suckhole if Trump was gone and undoubtedly would try to chart his own course starting by reversing most of Trump's utter stupidities.
But he's already tarred himself beyond salvation.

He could show some balls and initiative if he launched a 25th Amendment action against Dementia Donald. He's got more than enough evidence just by the fool's behaviour.

[Zeitgeist]

5 hours ago, herbie said:

Vance wouldn't have to suckhole if Trump was gone and undoubtedly would try to chart his own course starting by reversing most of Trump's utter stupidities.
But he's already tarred himself beyond salvation.

He could show some balls and initiative if he launched a 25th Amendment action against Dementia Donald. He's got more than enough evidence just by the fool's behaviour.

We need Trump right now.  He’s forcing the issues and making countries decide how to act.  It’s a time of change.  Canada can ride this wave because we’ve got the international backing against imperialist conquests.  Canada shed imperialism after declaring herself “settler colonial.”  Canada is protecting an idyllic vision of a progressive world order where the rules are clearly laid out and consistently enforced.  Responsible government.  It’s kind of boring but kind of how things should be.  Other countries know it, which is why they look to Canada, but Canada has to drop its self-defeating woke narrative. Stop pretending to take the moral high ground when you won’t even pay for your own defence.  Remember where you came from and live up to the dreams of the ancestral heroes.  

Edited March 9 by Zeitgeist

[herbie]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada has to drop its self-defeating woke narrative. Stop pretending to take the moral high ground when you won’t even pay for your own defence.  Remember where you came from and live up to the dreams of the ancestral heroes.  

Deluding yourself with "right speak" tarbrush of wokeism rather than saying what you're trying to describe what you're referring to is a lame cop out.
As is your brainwashed notion that spending money on the military when you don't have to is some sort of necessity. 

Obviously things have changed, The Donald has decided the USA will stick iys head up its arse and replay 1930s isolationism so we have to step up, and if you paid attention that's already begun. But clue in: even with the threats of Trump, no one is militarily threatening Canada so the 'defences' we're stepping up is not being done solely for ourselves.
Quit feeding those with absurd fantasies of some 'invader' storming our beaches or pouring over the Arctic ice.
 

[TreeBeard]

On 3/7/2025 at 8:56 AM, blackbird said:

Canada could seek nuclear security from Britain and France in the face of growing American threats. 

There used to be a time when the one thing all Canadians could agree on is that we should fight back if we’re ever invaded by another country.  
 

What the hell happened to conservatives?  Tell me why political differences with other Canadians has come to mean that conservatives think Canada shouldn’t defend herself with her allies if invaded.

 

[Zeitgeist]

7 hours ago, herbie said:

Deluding yourself with "right speak" tarbrush of wokeism rather than saying what you're trying to describe what you're referring to is a lame cop out.
As is your brainwashed notion that spending money on the military when you don't have to is some sort of necessity. 

Obviously things have changed, The Donald has decided the USA will stick iys head up its arse and replay 1930s isolationism so we have to step up, and if you paid attention that's already begun. But clue in: even with the threats of Trump, no one is militarily threatening Canada so the 'defences' we're stepping up is not being done solely for ourselves.
Quit feeding those with absurd fantasies of some 'invader' storming our beaches or pouring over the Arctic ice.
 

Bury your head in the sand seems to be what you’re saying.  That’s what’s already been happening and it’s not working.  

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

There used to be a time when the one thing all Canadians could agree on is that we should fight back if we’re ever invaded by another country.  
 

What the hell happened to conservatives?  Tell me why political differences with other Canadians has come to mean that conservatives think Canada shouldn’t defend herself with her allies if invaded.

 

Only a fool would think threatening the U.S. with nuclear weapons or any kind of military action makes sense.  Grow up!

Edited March 10 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

Only a fool would think threatening the U.S. with nuclear weapons or any kind of military action makes sense.  Grow up!

And if Russia attacks and America stands by and does nothing, what do you think Canada should do?

This isn’t about American actions or threatening America. It’s about inaction by America in a worst case scenario.  Obviously America isn’t attacking Canada with its military. 

[herbie]

16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Bury your head in the sand seems to be what you’re saying.  That’s what’s already been happening and it’s not working.  

The guy with his head buried up his arse accuses others of burying theirs in the sand.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

The guy with his head buried up his arse accuses others of burying theirs in the sand.

You spew the nonsense of an unwashed 20 year old unemployed radical activist.

[Nefarious Banana]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

The guy with his head buried up his arse accuses others of burying theirs in the sand.

Childish . . . grow up.

[herbie]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You spew the nonsense of an unwashed 20 year old unemployed radical activist.

As opposed to someone who's been hiding under the from the Red Menace since 1950?