Trump and Vance Loudly Rebuke Zelensky in Oval Office | The New York Times

[West]

21 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Zelenskyy has a 57% approval rating. You've got to stop believing FOS LIES and/or pathological LIAR Trump.

Are you really stupid enough to believe a foreign invasion is NOT a national emergency? LMAO

Then put it to a vote. 

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You people haven't seen anything yet.  Hey look there go the Tate bros!

....who?

Tate bros are vile. 

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Wait until Trump is sending military aid to Putin.

to help Russia seize the Canadian arctic

just desserts for socialist peacenik self disarming Canada

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, West said:

Tate bros are vile. 

Yeah but they helped influence millions of young Americans to vote for Trump, doesn't that count for something?

[gatomontes99]

26 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And therein lies the definition of what MAGA stands for. If the 'left', however defined, doesn't like it, then it must be good. For example, the Left doesn't like rape, so it's a good thing MAGA is led by a leader who operates under no such belief. Rape is good because the left doesn't like it.

Well, we are against the sexual assault, rape and human trafficking of illegal immigrants invading our southern border so we shut down the border. You were against that. So my only conclusion can be that you are OK with sexual assault, rape and trafficking of women that try to cross our border illegally.

Anytime you guys are against something, we should be for it. If we do that, 99.995% of the time we will be right.

[ironstone]

28 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Are you really stupid enough to believe a foreign invasion is NOT a national emergency? LMAO

You guys basically sat around and did nothing while millions of unvetted military age men walked across your southern border for four years in broad daylight .

Did you have any concern when Putin annexed Crimea in 2014?

Maybe Biden shouldn't have said that a minor incursion by Russia wouldn't be a big deal?

[I am Groot]

48 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Because it's America first.

Trump doesn't give a shit about America. Trump cares about Trump and ONLY Trump.

America's military policy for generations has been to confront those who are certain to be their enemies far from their shores before they can get too close. In the case of the Soviets, it was to confront them wherever they sought power, to prevent them from getting more powerful. Too powerful. A secondary objective of American power is to protect America's access to raw resources it needs to power industry. They're in the process of losing most of that now. China and Russia own much of Africa now, and China is making deep inroads into South America. They will have priority for resources. A third purpose is to protect allies who can be useful in offsetting the power of powers hostile to the US, and provide markets for American goods.

Trump is in the process of throwing all of that away and reducing America's power and influence to just its own borders. 

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

to help Russia seize the Canadian arctic

just desserts for socialist peacenik self disarming Canada

No, Trump gets that. Putin will get a bigger chunk of Europe. China will get the nod to grab...whatever.

Then they'll all have a little chat and...

[I am Groot]

52 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I get the sense David Frum doesn't sleep well at night.

I don't think Frum has changed. He's still a traditional conservative. There aren't many, if any of those left in the Republican Party anymore.

[Scott75]

38 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the fire I refer to is simply that the right has learned its lesson from losing for decades

and has now started to adopt the leftists policies right back against the left

in this case, Trump has simply stolen the Democrats Peace Now platform of the 1970's

Detente 2.0 and Ukrainian South Vietnam gets thrown under the bus

Ah ok, well that certainly sounds good 🙂

[I am Groot]

51 minutes ago, West said:

Zelensky has suspended all elections under the guise of national emergency. His ratings are in the tubes 

Under the 'guise'? Are you suggesting there is no national emergency?

And their constitution calls for such a suspension. Especially when millions of their citizens are refugees and millions more live under occupation.

[BeaverFever]

Zelensky Walked Into a Trap

Donald Trump and J. D. Vanceappear to have entered today’s Oval Office meeting with the goal of generating a pretext for a diplomatic break with Ukraine.

By Jonathan Chait
 

Of the many bizarre and uncomfortable moments during today’s Oval Office meeting between Donald Trump, J. D. Vance, and Volodymyr Zelensky—during which Trump finally shattered the American alliance with Ukraine—one was particularly revealing: What, a reporter asked, would happen if the cease-fire Trump is trying to negotiate were to be violated by Russia? “What if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now?” Trump spat back, as if Russia violating a neighbor’s sovereignty were the wildest and most unlikely possibility, rather than a frequently recurring event.

 

….He was not explaining why a deal with Russia would advance America’s interests, or why honoring it would advance Russia’s. He was defending Russia’s integrity by vouching for Putin’s character.

 

…

Trump and Vance appear to have entered the meeting with the intention of berating Zelensky and drawing him into an argument as a pretext for the diplomatic break. Why should anyone have expected anything different? Trump has been regurgitating Russian propaganda, not only regarding Ukraine, since before Zelensky even assumed office. He defended Russia’s seizure of Crimea in 2018 (the year preceding Zelensky’s election), has repeatedly refused to acknowledge Russian guilt for various murders, and has even stuck to Russian talking points on such idiosyncratic topics as the Soviets’ supposedly defensive rationale for invading Afghanistan in 1979 and their fear that an “aggressive” Montenegro would attack Russia, dragging NATO into war.

In the past few weeks, Trump has made very little effort to conceal his pro-Russian tilt. He called Zelensky a dictator, and when asked if he would say the same about Putin, refused, insisting, “I don’t use those words lightly.” (No president in American history has used words more lightly than Trump.) He said Ukraine “may be Russian someday” and blamed Ukraine for starting the war. The U.S. even joined Russia, North Korea, and a tiny bloc of Russian allies to vote against a United Nations resolution condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

 

…Even today, Trump’s bullying commenced well before Zelensky had opened his mouth. Trump greeted his counterpart on the White House driveway with condescending mockery, pointing at him and tellingonlookers, “He’s all dressed up today,” like Bill Batts in Goodfellas belittling Joe Pesci’s character. (“Hey, Tommy, all dressed up!”) Zelensky’s attire—the Ukrainian president wears military attire, not a suit, to remind the world that his country is at war—has been a fixation on the right, and conservatives have seized upon it as a pretext to blame him for Trump’s anger. Oddly, they did not seem to mind that Elon Musk showed up at the White House this week in a T-shirt and baseball cap.

….

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/02/zelensky-trump-putin-ukraine/681883/

 

 

[suds]

15 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Because Trump is Putin's puppet, you mean?

Silly answer. Trump's attempting a diplomatic solution to the war. Yours is what? Last man standing? WW3? Making Russia pay for Hillary's defeat in 2016? C'mon, tell me how you really feel.

[I am Groot]

57 minutes ago, West said:

Lots of MAGA are disgusted that there's been no arrests when there's all this talk about pedos

If by 'pedo' you mean men who lust after teenagers, Trump is also a pedo. He's notorious for barging into the dressing room for Miss Teenage America when he ran the show. And let's just say the pictures of him and his daughter, and the comments he's made, suggest he had such lusts a lot closer to home than is traditional. 

Edited February 28 by I am Groot

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, Trump gets that. Putin will get a bigger chunk of Europe. China will get the nod to grab...whatever.

Then they'll all have a little chat and...

well, first the Russians provide a "threat" in the Canadian Arctic

then America moves in to "save" Canada from the Russian "menace"

see how that works ?

[herbie]

The most disgusting, unethical, immoral US President to ever take office berates someone doing his best to defend their country from invasion with bean counting financial logic. Even using the opportunity to berate Biden for supporting them while continuing the lie that only the USA prevented a total Russian takeover. Bullying, interrupting, refusing to listen the typical abhorrent Trump standard on full display. F*ck him.

That's "Making America great again"?
If Zelenaky had spat in Trump's face, told him to f*ck off and walked out the Actual Free World would've stood up and cheered. A goddam administration with the whole Glorius F*cking Almighty Yanks propaganda shoved so far up their ass they can't even think straight.
France is offering Europe it's nuclear umbrella, Britain must do the same. America is OVER for at least the next four years.
Watch for Europe to send advisors and troops and risk a larger confllct while the USA, as usual, sits with it's thumbs up it's arse fretting about $$$ until it's forced to step in.

Storm the Capitol over bullshit claiims of election fraud and do nothing as this dimwit shames your country to the entire world? Not the America I was raised to believe in.

Putin is laughing while Lincoln, Kennedy, and Reagan turn in their graves.

[I am Groot]

35 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I simply point out that he was all in favour of invading a country to steal its resources, back in 2003

And how many resources did they steal? 

Every Republican and virtually every Democrat were in favour of invading Iraq.

26 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

very few, after those like your "smart guy" David Frum talked them into it

If Frum's words were that influential Trump would be in prison now, where he belongs.

[Dougie93]

Just now, I am Groot said:

And how many resources did they steal? 

Every Republican and virtually every Democrat were in favour of invading Iraq.

and now the electorate has decided to abandon the war in Ukraine

democracy in action

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, suds said:

Silly answer. Trump's attempting a diplomatic solution to the war. Yours is what? Last man standing? WW3? Making Russia pay for Hillary's defeat in 2016? C'mon, tell me how you really feel.

Trump says all Zelenskyy want to do is fight fight fight...how ironic.

[I am Groot]

24 minutes ago, suds said:

'Aiding a country' can mean a number of different things. Sort of like when Obama gave the Ukraine blankets when they were invaded by Russia in 2014. 'Opting into a proxy war' requires no further explanation. That's what 'spin' is.

The US was obligated to help Ukraine by guaranteeing its borders under the Belgrade agreement.

[West]

4 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

If by 'pedo' you mean mean who lust after teenagers, Trump is also a pedo. He's notorious for barging into the dressing room for Miss Teenage America when he ran the show. And let's just say the pictures of him and his daughter, and the comments he's made, suggest he had such lusts a lot closer to home than is traditional. 

Yeah yeah I'm sure. 

[I am Groot]

5 minutes ago, suds said:

Silly answer. Trump's attempting a diplomatic solution to the war.

No, he clearly is not.

[suds]

3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The US was obligated to help Ukraine by guaranteeing its borders under the Belgrade agreement.

Yeah, I'm sure they really appreciated the blankets.

[suds]

2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

No, he clearly is not.

Oh, ok.

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

well, first the Russians provide a "threat" in the Canadian Arctic

then America moves in to "save" Canada from the Russian "menace"

see how that works ?

Sure, Orwell saw it coming nearly 75 years ago.

And then there were Jerry Pournelle's Co-Dominion novels.

It's been an old theme for sometime. Truth is stranger than fiction, apparently.

[suds]

22 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Maybe Biden shouldn't have said that a minor incursion by Russia wouldn't be a big deal?

Yeah, pretty stupid thing to say all right.  But for Biden....  perfectly normal.