Toronto-Quebec City High-Speed Rail

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

But it keeps the steel mills running, creates jobs,

Valid but there are many things we could do that would achieve the same thing but would benefit Canadians as a whole rather than a very very select group within a specific limited geographic area

Quote

and improves travel connections in an area where over half the population lives.  

No, the vast majority of the people in those two provinces would not have access to this. This is not going to substantially benefit someone in thunder bay. 

Now not all projects benefit everyone obviously but this will be a very small number of people for 90 BILLION dollars.  To put that in perspective that's about 4 major pipelines that would produce jobs and revenues that would benefit every single canadian in a major way through severely increased tax revenues and employment revenues. 

So all taxpayers will be required to pay a MASSIVE amount of money for something that will cost more than it will produce and will benefit a tiny number of people. That's about 2200 for every single man woman and child alive today.  

ANd that's if it's on budget,  given the liberal track record what do you think the chances of that are?

 

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What do Ontarians dire receive from some of the infrastructure and resource projects out west?

The only infrastructure out west they ever invest in is pipelines.  And that was once.  And they benefit from massively more tax money than they spent.

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My point is that Ontario isn’t getting much infrastructure from the feds outside of this rail line,

Fcuk off with that shit.

Most of the 'infrastructure investment' trudeau did was in ontario.  They buy your votes with OUR money and always have.  

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and the extensions off the line will likely be paid for provincially.

Why would i give a shit? They're STILL demanding almost a hundred BILION DOLLARS for something while in the meantime our gas prices out west are going up every year to carbon taxes making transport harder and more expensive. 

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Most major projects have cost overruns.

All the more reason not to do it unless there is a massively clear financial benefit. 

 

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 What makes any of these projects projects significantly better than the others?  In some cases there are simply bad ideas, but in most of these projects, people will support them if they’re local. Well this project impacts about 13 million people in the Greater Golden Horseshoe and another 7 million from Ottawa to Quebec City.

Most of them don't cost over 100 billion. You need to sit back and think about how much money that is. Money we don't have and we'll have to borrow because we're not out of balanced budget already.

To put that amount in perspective when harper left office every single cent that had been borrowed by every single prime minister in the history of Canada up to that point was 500 billion dollars. That was how far in debt that we were

You're talking about going into debt 20% of the entire amount of money borrowed by every prime minister in history combined...... and it won't even make us money or pay for itself

And it doesn't benefit anybody except a handful of people

 

This isn't just a bad idea it borders on being evil. This is strictly speaking raping the western other parts of Canada to buy votes in ontario and Quebec and that's not okay. It is somehow could generate enough revenue to pay for itself that would be different but it will be a money loser that our children will have to pay for for generations to come and will not benefit us at the slightest

It does not deserve your support

[Barquentine]

On 4/2/2026 at 3:22 PM, Goddess said:

And then electing the ones who did it - 4 times!

So if all your exaggerations, lies, doom and gloom were true, why didn't Canadians elect the Cons?

Oh, wait - let me guess. It was the leftard mainstream media's fault, wasn't it?

But I'll bet you've got some TikTok rant or cherry-picked anecdotes to 'prove' your points.

Carry on!

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Valid but there are many things we could do that would achieve the same thing but would benefit Canadians as a whole rather than a very very select group within a specific limited geographic area

No, the vast majority of the people in those two provinces would not have access to this. This is not going to substantially benefit someone in thunder bay. 

Now not all projects benefit everyone obviously but this will be a very small number of people for 90 BILLION dollars.  To put that in perspective that's about 4 major pipelines that would produce jobs and revenues that would benefit every single canadian in a major way through severely increased tax revenues and employment revenues. 

So all taxpayers will be required to pay a MASSIVE amount of money for something that will cost more than it will produce and will benefit a tiny number of people. That's about 2200 for every single man woman and child alive today.  

ANd that's if it's on budget,  given the liberal track record what do you think the chances of that are?

 

The only infrastructure out west they ever invest in is pipelines.  And that was once.  And they benefit from massively more tax money than they spent.

Fcuk off with that shit.

Most of the 'infrastructure investment' trudeau did was in ontario.  They buy your votes with OUR money and always have.  

Why would i give a shit? They're STILL demanding almost a hundred BILION DOLLARS for something while in the meantime our gas prices out west are going up every year to carbon taxes making transport harder and more expensive. 

All the more reason not to do it unless there is a massively clear financial benefit. 

 

Most of them don't cost over 100 billion. You need to sit back and think about how much money that is. Money we don't have and we'll have to borrow because we're not out of balanced budget already.

To put that amount in perspective when harper left office every single cent that had been borrowed by every single prime minister in the history of Canada up to that point was 500 billion dollars. That was how far in debt that we were

You're talking about going into debt 20% of the entire amount of money borrowed by every prime minister in history combined...... and it won't even make us money or pay for itself

And it doesn't benefit anybody except a handful of people

 

This isn't just a bad idea it borders on being evil. This is strictly speaking raping the western other parts of Canada to buy votes in ontario and Quebec and that's not okay. It is somehow could generate enough revenue to pay for itself that would be different but it will be a money loser that our children will have to pay for for generations to come and will not benefit us at the slightest

It does not deserve your support

Most of the time Ontario is on the giving end to the rest of Canada, and it’s a significant amount. The reality is that only one or two of those pipeline proposals will get built anytime soon due to EA’s, state regulations, legal challenges, etc., and that’s with the revised fast tracked approach.  Look, build as many pipelines and other resource infrastructure as you can, but what’s it all for if you can’t get anywhere fast in our major cities because we’re using 80 year old train technology.

Toronto has doubled in population since I was a kid.  Cities like Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughan, Richmond Hill, and Markham have tripled or quadrupled size in my lifetime- literally Brampton went from 150,000 to 800.000 people.  Kitchener-Waterloo has doubled in size. All of these cities and others like Burlington, Hamilton, Peterborough, Tois-Rivierres, Ottawa, Laval, Montreal, Gatineau, Quebec City, and more would benefit. Ontario and Quebec are being hammered most by tariffs and we could literally lose our steel, aluminum, and auto industries. If these major centres can’t get something out of this infrastructure program, we in central Canada should ask what’s in it for us, because Ontario has been the giving tree for a lot longer than Alberta. This latest deal with China hurts Ontario but benefits Saskatchewan and rural parts of Canada.

Eventually that rail line will be paid off by users, just like the St. Laurence Seaway, the Confederation Bridge, and the Trans Mountain Pipeline.  Some projects will be paid off faster than others, but let’s not forget that I can’t use a pipeline to get to my destination faster. It’s a good investment, but the infrastructure itself doesn’t improve quality of life. Being able to travel easily and quickly across central Canada is a tangible quality of life improvement that makes Canada a more attractive destination internationally for citizens, businesses, and tourists.

You could argue that all of our Olympics — Montreal, Vancouver, and Calgary—should never have happened due to cost, but we received major sports infrastructure, subway/highway infrastructure, housing. These events also raised our international profile and athleticism.  Expo 67 created subway systems and whole islands which became permanent parks enjoyed today.  Toronto’s SkyDime was very expensive, but it certainly inspired success and the Jays won back to back World Series just after its completion. Not everything we build has to be a factory or mine.  What benefits major cities isn’t the same thing as what benefits residents of rural areas.  HSR is expensive, but it keeps our cities in the running for a variety of reasons for attracting talent and making these highly populated areas functional.  There are also environmental benefits that offset some of the damage from our resource development.

Edited April 5 by Zeitgeist

[TreeBeard]

Over 50% of Canada lives within 50km along the proposed high-speed rail corridor.  Anyone who opposes it based on this not benefiting other parts of Canada needs to look at a map.  You build things where the people live, not in Buttf#ck, SK, pop. 1500. 

[herbie]

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Yes because the rest of the country is in flames , lets distract them and build a HSR, makes sense..

Sorry but others don't see flames, just the normal issues which are solveable.
And delaying things that should've been done 40-50 years ago is no solution at all.

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, Barquentine said:

So if all your exaggerations, lies, doom and gloom were true, why didn't Canadians elect the Cons?

 

The conservatives won the popular vote for two out of the three of the last elections And almost did this last time as well

Quote

Oh, wait - let me guess. It was the leftard mainstream media's fault, wasn't it?

The party in power has an advantage. The liberals pull every dirty trick to milk that advantage. And they managed to buy off the NDP otherwise we would have an conservative government right now as you well know

Conservatives just have to learn to be better at cheating the system and be more like the liberals when they get in.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

Over 50% of Canada lives within 50km along the proposed high-speed rail corridor.  Anyone who opposes it based on this not benefiting other parts of Canada needs to look at a map.  You build things where the people live, not in Buttf#ck, SK, pop. 1500. 

Well, there can be projects for the sticks too. Reality is that, given how hard it is to do anything these days, this line won’t be in operation for 20-30 years.  If we cancel now, Canada will continue to be the only G7 country without HSR.  It comes down to having options and a good quality of life.  Already Canada has big productivity challenges and stagnating incomes. This line should’ve been started 40 years ago.  Waiting longer to build it will just make it more expensive and harder to build, given that millions more people will be living in the south of these provinces and land will be that much harder to expropriate.

Edited April 5 by Zeitgeist

[suds]

Via Rail Canada has lines that run from Halifax, through Toronto/Windsor, to Prince Rupert B.C.  at speeds up to 160 km/h. Why is it so important for us or our economy that we have trains that run twice as fast?  Why is it important for business when we have such basic things as video conferencing? Most people would kill if they were allowed to work from home. And what about AI? Ontario to its credit is on track with its planning for major future nuclear development to ensure we  have enough energy to always meet our needs. (you see, somebody gets it) It also plans to develop the ring of fire region in northern Ontario to mine the metals and minerals that are in such world wide demand. (again, another hi 5) For most of us, transportation is more of less restricted to about a 10 or 20 km radius from where we live. 

[suds]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The conservatives won the popular vote for two out of the three of the last elections And almost did this last time as well

The party in power has an advantage. The liberals pull every dirty trick to milk that advantage. And they managed to buy off the NDP otherwise we would have an conservative government right now as you well know

Conservatives just have to learn to be better at cheating the system and be more like the liberals when they get in.

Exactly. The Liberals are just plain better at winning elections. They'll sell their souls to buy votes while the Conservatives (and to their credit, the NDP) are more prone to hold on to their principles.

[John Johnston]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Over 50% of Canada lives within 50km along the proposed high-speed rail corridor.  Anyone who opposes it based on this not benefiting other parts of Canada needs to look at a map.  You build things where the people live, not in Buttf#ck, SK, pop. 1500. 

I think a High Speed Rail to Dog River would be a good thing. I could get a Ruby Club Sandwich and be back to Lake of the Woods in time for dinner. 

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Most of the time Ontario is on the giving end to the rest of Canada, and it’s a significant amount.

Absolutely false. The vast majority of time throughout our history ontario has been the one who takes

Most of our federal money is spent in Ontario, the west is deliberately shut out of things to benefit Ontario. During covid one of the world's more promising medical labs prove that they could produce a covid vaccine extremely quickly and all they asked for was 10 million to set up shop from mass production and the liberals wouldn't even talk to them.

Other experts around the world commented on how ridiculous this was because they were well known as being a top of the line lab. But,,,, they were in Edmonton. And Ontario and Quebec did not want to see the growth of a strong pharmaceutical industry in the west

For ages it cost more money to ship things on rail to the east than it did to ship them west just to protect Ontario Industries

Petrocan stole massive amounts of money from Alberta to win votes in Ontario and Trudeau's own people admitted that later. Dion referred to Alberta saying that "they didn't want to KILL the cash cow...."  

Ontario occasionally gives to Quebec but that's about it. Otherwise everything is geared towards making sure that Ontario has the resources and the money at the expense of everyone else

Have you never thought that it was weird how blow the population is in the west compared to Ontario? There's a reason for that

The rail line will not be paid off by users. That will never happen. Certainly not in our lifetime

The Olympics were specifically designed to improve our standing on the world stage and increase the amount of business done with Canada regardless of province.  And most of the money was paid for by the province that it occurred in which covered the cost of the infrastructure

This will be 100% paid for by taxpayers who will never get a benefit and it will never benefit them internationally or anything of the like

It's this kind of thing that fuels western separation and Alberta's desire to break away. This is nothing but theft from canadians to buy votes in Ontario and it's disgusting and you should not be supporting it. If the province is want to do it then they can

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Sorry but others don't see flames, just the normal issues which are solveable.
And delaying things that should've been done 40-50 years ago is no solution at all.

That's half the problem with the left they want it all....if we could afford it 40 to 50 years ago we would have built it, so why is so attractive today.....where are we getting all the funding from, Carney just announced we need another 100 bil for our military each and every year.....now we need another 90 to 120 bil for a train.  Does money grow on trees on your planet ...... you must be happy with the state of our health care, education system, current infra structure, lack of housing, homeless camps, and the rest of the long list of things that 90  to 120 bil could solve...but no we need a HSR system because we should have done it 40 to 50 years ago...well we missed that train, we have a lot of problems older problems that need fixing as well , before we start jetting around on a train that only services 1/3 of the country...

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Over 50% of Canada lives within 50km along the proposed high-speed rail corridor.  Anyone who opposes it based on this not benefiting other parts of Canada needs to look at a map.  You build things where the people live, not in Buttf#ck, SK, pop. 1500. 

So why don't we reinvest more into our health care, education system, poor infra structure....i find it funny that we can't fix what we already have , instead of jumping on the band wagon about some HSR project that may only serve 50 % of the country....while 100 % of the country pays....Is this how the left runs its house hold when the roof needs fixing i buy a new car, boat and motorbike, when the basement is flooding i go on vacation...and buy lot tickets....

Mean while on the right side of the spectrum we fix the roof before it starts to leak, and we invest in repairs so they don't cost major dollars in the long run....90 to 120 bil is a very conservative estimate, and if history is anything to be judged by this is going to cost hundreds of more bils...And could fix our struggling health care system, education system, invest in our poor infra structure, or could be used to power the nation through Nuke power, i could find a million ways to better spend these bils...

Maybe you guys could list all the benefits this HSR is going to bring that would over ride fixing what we already have...

 

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Absolutely false. The vast majority of time throughout our history ontario has been the one who takes

Most of our federal money is spent in Ontario, the west is deliberately shut out of things to benefit Ontario. During covid one of the world's more promising medical labs prove that they could produce a covid vaccine extremely quickly and all they asked for was 10 million to set up shop from mass production and the liberals wouldn't even talk to them.

Other experts around the world commented on how ridiculous this was because they were well known as being a top of the line lab. But,,,, they were in Edmonton. And Ontario and Quebec did not want to see the growth of a strong pharmaceutical industry in the west

For ages it cost more money to ship things on rail to the east than it did to ship them west just to protect Ontario Industries

Petrocan stole massive amounts of money from Alberta to win votes in Ontario and Trudeau's own people admitted that later. Dion referred to Alberta saying that "they didn't want to KILL the cash cow...."  

Ontario occasionally gives to Quebec but that's about it. Otherwise everything is geared towards making sure that Ontario has the resources and the money at the expense of everyone else

Have you never thought that it was weird how blow the population is in the west compared to Ontario? There's a reason for that

The rail line will not be paid off by users. That will never happen. Certainly not in our lifetime

The Olympics were specifically designed to improve our standing on the world stage and increase the amount of business done with Canada regardless of province.  And most of the money was paid for by the province that it occurred in which covered the cost of the infrastructure

This will be 100% paid for by taxpayers who will never get a benefit and it will never benefit them internationally or anything of the like

It's this kind of thing that fuels western separation and Alberta's desire to break away. This is nothing but theft from canadians to buy votes in Ontario and it's disgusting and you should not be supporting it. If the province is want to do it then they can

The key historical fact

• Canada’s equalization system began in 1957.
• Ontario did not receive equalization at all until 2009–2010.

That means:

From 1957 to 2009 (about 52 years), Ontario was consistently a “have” province and therefore a net contributor within the equalization framework.

What happened after 2009

• Ontario began receiving equalization in 2009–10, following the recession.
• It remained a recipient for roughly a decade (about 2009–2019).
• It then stopped receiving payments around 2019–2020, with some intermittent or technical payments later (e.g., 2023–24).
• 1957–2009 (~52 years): Ontario = contributor (“have” province)
• 2009–2019 (~10 years): Ontario = recipient (“have-not” period)
• 2019–present (~5–7 years): mostly back to contributor status (with occasional exceptions)

Since the start of equalization in 1957:

• Ontario has been a net contributor for roughly 80–85% of the program’s history
• And a recipient for roughly 15–20% of the time

Edited April 5 by Zeitgeist

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well, there can be projects for the sticks too. Reality is that, given how hard it is to do anything these days, this line won’t be in operation for 20-30 years.  If we cancel now, Canada will continue to be the only G7 country without HSR.  It comes down to having options and a good quality of life.  Already Canada has big productivity challenges and stagnating incomes. This line should’ve been started 40 years ago.  Waiting longer to build it will just make it more expensive and harder to build, given that millions more people will be living in the south of these provinces and land will be that much harder to expropriate.

SO we need to keep up with the jones....that's your selling point...Have you looked at train tickets lately....how much do you think a one way ticket is going to cost....and how long before it will be paid off...some estimate well over 45 years...about the time it will need major repairs...With everything that is wrong with this nation now, why would we NEED to build another cash cow...

[Goddess]

Liberals serve themselves first & foremost.

Edited April 5 by Goddess

[Zeitgeist]

22 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

SO we need to keep up with the jones....that's your selling point...Have you looked at train tickets lately....how much do you think a one way ticket is going to cost....and how long before it will be paid off...some estimate well over 45 years...about the time it will need major repairs...With everything that is wrong with this nation now, why would we NEED to build another cash cow...

45 years is fine. Most major interprovincial projects can only be built with government assistance and financing, but not having these projects go ahead defeats the purpose of the nation state.  Think of the Canadian National Railway or the Confederation Bridge.  The postal service is a consistently money losing proposition for that crown corporation, but our northern and rural territories rely on it. You need modern infrastructure to have a cutting edge economy.  If I’m a talented software engineer deciding between living in Boston, San Francisco or Toronto, knowing I could get a high paying job in any of those markets, what will be the decisive factors?  If I can be in New York City or Washington DC in a relatively short train ride from Boston, but the nearest Canadian city is a 5 hour train ride on our old milk trains to Ottawa, well you get the point.  We can’t assume that our long winter and currently lower wages will be enough to attract people (sarcasm).

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Liberals serve themselves first & foremost.

You know how I feel about the Liberals in general, but given the reality of who’s running the show, at this point I just want to see projects get completed.  If Carney can actually get shovels in the ground, he’ll be far ahead of Trudeau who was a master of overspending and having nothing to show for it.  

[CdnFox]

20 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You know how I feel about the Liberals in general, but given the reality of who’s running the show, at this point I just want to see projects get completed.  If Carney can actually get shovels in the ground, he’ll be far ahead of Trudeau who was a master of overspending and having nothing to show for it.  

Sounds like you're fine with liberals as long as the corruption works in your favor. I see things differently

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sounds like you're fine with liberals as long as the corruption works in your favor. I see things differently

No, but how do the Conservatives get into government right now?  I couldn’t fathom their reelection last year but here we are.  As for HSR, both parties have supported it and pulled support from it intermittently.  The bottom line is, if we’re paying all these taxes, we better have something to show for it, especially when tariffs are hurting Canada (central Canada especially) and we’re supposedly doing infrastructure programs to keep our industries and build infrastructure for future economic expansion and independence.

Edited April 6 by Zeitgeist

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

45 years is fine. Most major interprovincial projects can only be built with government assistance and financing, but not having these projects go ahead defeats the purpose of the nation state.  Think of the Canadian National Railway or the Confederation Bridge.  The postal service is a consistently money losing proposition for that crown corporation, but our northern and rural territories rely on it. You need modern infrastructure to have a cutting edge economy.  If I’m a talented software engineer deciding between living in Boston, San Francisco or Toronto, knowing I could get a high paying job in any of those markets, what will be the decisive factors?  If I can be in New York City or Washington DC in a relatively short train ride from Boston, but the nearest Canadian city is a 5 hour train ride on our old milk trains to Ottawa, well you get the point.  We can’t assume that our long winter and currently lower wages will be enough to attract people (sarcasm).

Your not very convincing, so Americans will be able to travel faster, and people in Ontario and Quebec will be able to take a ride on an over priced high speed rail.....does that trump our faulty healthcare, education system, outdated infra structure....i guess we fix them when exactly ?or do we even care......

Carney plans to spend 500 bil in the next 5 to 10 years, plus another 100 bil per year on defense, and now a 90 to 120 bil on a HSR project...did we recently win the loto, or find one of those liberal money trees...who pays all of this debt....and if 90 to 120 does not make people blink or ask questions and HSR is "SO" important why not finish it all across the country, East to west south to north.... or is there a limit , a line in the sand we don't cross, ....With so many things that are broken in this country ..this is the hill we should attack with all our resources....we don't run our personal lives like this , we buy what we can afford....we can not even build a simple pipeline....and yet we want to try HSR...

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The key historical fact

• Canada’s equalization system began in 1957.
• Ontario did not receive equalization at all until 2009–2010.

That means:

From 1957 to 2009 (about 52 years), Ontario was consistently a “have” province and therefore a net contributor within the equalization framework.

What happened after 2009

• Ontario began receiving equalization in 2009–10, following the recession.
• It remained a recipient for roughly a decade (about 2009–2019).
• It then stopped receiving payments around 2019–2020, with some intermittent or technical payments later (e.g., 2023–24).
• 1957–2009 (~52 years): Ontario = contributor (“have” province)
• 2009–2019 (~10 years): Ontario = recipient (“have-not” period)
• 2019–present (~5–7 years): mostly back to contributor status (with occasional exceptions)

Since the start of equalization in 1957:

• Ontario has been a net contributor for roughly 80–85% of the program’s history
• And a recipient for roughly 15–20% of the time

Cool story. Now do bc  and Alberta

Edited April 6 by CdnFox

[Barquentine]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Conservatives just have to learn to be better at cheating the system

Only way they could win. Get a real leader!

[Zeitgeist]

17 hours ago, suds said:

Via Rail Canada has lines that run from Halifax, through Toronto/Windsor, to Prince Rupert B.C.  at speeds up to 160 km/h. Why is it so important for us or our economy that we have trains that run twice as fast?  Why is it important for business when we have such basic things as video conferencing? Most people would kill if they were allowed to work from home. And what about AI? Ontario to its credit is on track with its planning for major future nuclear development to ensure we  have enough energy to always meet our needs. (you see, somebody gets it) It also plans to develop the ring of fire region in northern Ontario to mine the metals and minerals that are in such world wide demand. (again, another hi 5) For most of us, transportation is more of less restricted to about a 10 or 20 km radius from where we live. 

Those 160 km trains rarely reach that speed and can’t sustain it if they do because of the sharing of the passenger rail corridor with the freight trains. We need a dedicated passenger rail line, one with fewer bends or requirements to slow down.  There are multiple benefits to HSR also in terms of removing auto and plane trips and especially providing economic possibilities for citizens that come with the ability to get between urban centres quickly.

Edited April 6 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Cool story. Now do bc  and Alberta

Yes we know Alberta contributes more during oil booms than any other province, but Ontario has been the steady anchor that has contributed more overall than any other province. Canada benefits from Alberta, sure, but a lot of federal funding is going Alberta’s way and regulations are being somewhat streamlined.  The biggest problem for pipelines right now are provincial and state barriers.  BC and Quebec are especially difficult, which is why the fees have to push the provinces to remove interprovincial barriers.  There’s been some progress.  I’d argue that if we can’t remove these barriers and get major national projects done, the country doesn’t work.  That test is underway now, but that’s another reason why canceling high speed rail in the country’s most viable transportation corridor where the population density warrants it most would be a big fail.  Sure you can cancel it because you don’t want money going to Ontario where the economy is facing serious tariff headwinds to save money, but that decision will have lasting implications for global competitiveness, productivity, and emissions. Being stuck with 1960’s transportation infrastructure in regions that have had some of the fastest population growth in the West is bad.  Toronto in particular should have twice the transportation infrastructure it has today.  

Edited April 6 by Zeitgeist