Toronto-Quebec City High-Speed Rail

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Barquentine said:

Only way they could win. Get a real leader!

The liberal definition of a 'real' leader is somebody who can't do the job but can swindle his way into power, pretending. then once he gets in he bends or breaks whatever rules necessary to stay there. 

I think we're probably going to go with trying to find someone who can do the job and then once he gets in bends and breaks every rule to stay there. 

The pendulum always swings. Count on it

Edited April 6 by CdnFox

[Legato]

4 hours ago, Barquentine said:

Only way they could win. Get a real leader!

Fear of the current one is evident.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Those 160 km trains rarely reach that speed and can’t sustain it if they do because of the sharing of the passenger rail corridor with the freight trains. We need a dedicated passenger rail line, one with fewer bends or requirements to slow down.  There are multiple benefits to HSR also in terms of removing auto and plane trips and especially providing economic possibilities for citizens that come with the ability to get between urban centres quickly.

But the benefits still don't add up to 90 billion. Not for the amount of traffic it's likely to support. Never mind the 120 to 150 is likely to actually cost

And even you, arguably the fiercest proponents here, haven't made a business case that makes sense for it.

Thousands of people will have their homes and property seized and be forced out, and for what? So a handful of people can make a Transit between one city and another quicker? There's no universe where that's worth $90 billion

90 billion dollars can fix almost all of our Healthcare problems. 90 billion dollars added to our military budget would allow us to properly equip a modest military with top of the line gear in planes, AA, vehicles etc. 

And because we have to borrow the money every single year it costs ANOTHER 2.7 BILLION dollars in interest!!  Every FCUKING YEAR!!!  And that's if interest rates don't go up.  AND if it comes in on budget AND if it can be operated without a loss which it can't. 

There is NO universe where this makes sense in the slightest. 

[Goddess]

9 hours ago, Barquentine said:

Only way they could win. Get a real leader!

Oh fug off.

It wouldn't matter who the leader was, you will never vote Conservative.

[eyeball]

48 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Oh fug off.

It wouldn't matter who the leader was, you will never vote Conservative.

Because it would be like voting for you. It's you people that make being conservative seem so... ewwww.

[Goddess]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Because it would be like voting for you. It's you people that make being conservative seem so... ewwww.

I can't recognize this comment.

You didn't hold up your "equity card".  And you're an old white guy anyways, you don't even get to speak.

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You didn't hold up your "equity card". And you're an old white guy anyways, you don't even get to speak.

I probably wouldn't be allowed because I identify as an Earthling. It's just human beings where I'm from.

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I probably wouldn't be allowed because I identify as an Earthling.

I guarantee you everybody else identifies you as something else

[Goddess]

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I probably wouldn't be allowed because I identify as an Earthling. It's just human beings where I'm from.

Your PPPP (professed preferred political party) has equity cards for speaking and NEWSFLASH - you don't get to from now on.

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I guarantee you everybody else identifies you as something else

Yup, a threat. Being human trumps every identity in the known universe.

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Your PPPP (professed preferred political party) has equity cards for speaking and NEWSFLASH - you don't get to from now on.

You know I voted for Carney.

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But the benefits still don't add up to 90 billion. Not for the amount of traffic it's likely to support. Never mind the 120 to 150 is likely to actually cost

And even you, arguably the fiercest proponents here, haven't made a business case that makes sense for it.

Thousands of people will have their homes and property seized and be forced out, and for what? So a handful of people can make a Transit between one city and another quicker? There's no universe where that's worth $90 billion

90 billion dollars can fix almost all of our Healthcare problems. 90 billion dollars added to our military budget would allow us to properly equip a modest military with top of the line gear in planes, AA, vehicles etc. 

And because we have to borrow the money every single year it costs ANOTHER 2.7 BILLION dollars in interest!!  Every FCUKING YEAR!!!  And that's if interest rates don't go up.  AND if it comes in on budget AND if it can be operated without a loss which it can't. 

There is NO universe where this makes sense in the slightest. 

It’s not a handful of people.  Potentially it’s millions of people in the corridor in the country with the highest population density that also happens to be one of the fastest growing areas in the West.  In 30 years we’ll see another 3 million people in the GTA and probably an additional 12 million people in both provinces combined, at least.  It’s just responsible planning to have a decent rail system, like France, Spain, US, Japan, China…It’s simply the cost of doing business in the big leagues,

[Army Guy]

58 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s not a handful of people.  Potentially it’s millions of people in the corridor in the country with the highest population density that also happens to be one of the fastest growing areas in the West.  In 30 years we’ll see another 3 million people in the GTA and probably an additional 12 million people in both provinces combined, at least.  It’s just responsible planning to have a decent rail system, like France, Spain, US, Japan, China…It’s simply the cost of doing business in the big leagues,

Does any nation not deal with Canada because we don't have HSR ?....

Train tickets from Quebec City to Toronto typically cost between $215 and $300+ CAD (approx. €222) for a one-way trip, depending on how far in advance you book. Operated by VIA Rail, the journey takes approximately 9 to 10 hours. Booking directly via the VIA Rail website offers the best fares and schedules. 

Wanderu +1

• Average Price: ~$217 CAD (around €222)
• Duration: ~9-10 hours

[Army Guy]

California high speed rail fisco...was suppose to cost just 33 bil now costing at over 125 bil and no track laid yet....

Appalling 12-figure cost of California Governor Gavin Newsom's high speed rail plan revealed

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yup, a threat.

LOL, well i suppose sort of, there's always the danger they'll fall off their chair laughing at you  

 

Quote

Being human trumps every identity in the known universe.

Yeah. You should try it some time

Quote

You know I voted for Carney.

Well yeah we knew it, nobody voted for the ndp.  But at least you admit it now. 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Well yeah we knew it, nobody voted for the ndp.  But at least you admit it now. 

I was lying  

[CdnFox]

Just now, eyeball said:

I was lying  

No you're lying now. LOL sorry kid you're about as hard to read as a dr seuss book  

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

No you're lying now. 

Yes I was.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s not a handful of people.  Potentially it’s millions of people in the corridor in the country with the highest population density that also happens to be one of the fastest growing areas in the West.

No, it's a handful of people.  "Potential" isn't real. A small number of people relative to the population would use this. 

And no, the fastest growing population areas in Canada are Edmonton and Calgary. So if we're going to do high speed why aren't we doing it there if "Fastest growing" is a factor. 

And no, the highest population density in canada by area is PEI, and the highest density city is vancouver followed by new west minster (in greater vancouver) and north vancouver.  Toronto and monreal aren't even in the top five. 

ANd if the population in 30 years is relevant, then build it in 30 years. Maybe we'll have gotten our budget balanced by then and we'll be able to afford it. 

And there is NOTHING responsible about it at all.   WE CANNOT AFFORD 90 BILLION DOLLARS.   We are going into debt about 100 billion a year, we cannot afford ANOTHER 100 billion and we both know that it's going to be close to 150. 

And you STILL Haven't made a business case other than "gee i sure like trains".  Which is NOT a good enough reason to spend 150 billion dollars!

If it were 15 billion or something then MAYBE but FFS ....  WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS RIGHT NOW.  Thanks to 11 years of liberal mismanagement we are bloody close to having our credit rating slashed and running out of borrowing power, which is what the Auditor general warned us about, and you want to spend  over 100 billion on a vanity project that will NOT BENEFIT US IN ANY WAY. 

Give your damn head a shake! What the hell is WRONG with people in the east?!?!?!

 

[Barquentine]

14 hours ago, Goddess said:

It wouldn't matter who the leader was, you will never vote Conservative.

WTF do you know? I voted Conservative in the last provincial election.

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Maybe we'll have gotten our budget balanced by then and we'll be able to afford it. 

The fundamental delusion that gives conservatives hope.

This Holy Grail is a wishful illusion on a horizon that's receding in the rearview mirror.

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No, it's a handful of people.  "Potential" isn't real. A small number of people relative to the population would use this. 

And no, the fastest growing population areas in Canada are Edmonton and Calgary. So if we're going to do high speed why aren't we doing it there if "Fastest growing" is a factor. 

And no, the highest population density in canada by area is PEI, and the highest density city is vancouver followed by new west minster (in greater vancouver) and north vancouver.  Toronto and monreal aren't even in the top five. 

ANd if the population in 30 years is relevant, then build it in 30 years. Maybe we'll have gotten our budget balanced by then and we'll be able to afford it. 

And there is NOTHING responsible about it at all.   WE CANNOT AFFORD 90 BILLION DOLLARS.   We are going into debt about 100 billion a year, we cannot afford ANOTHER 100 billion and we both know that it's going to be close to 150. 

And you STILL Haven't made a business case other than "gee i sure like trains".  Which is NOT a good enough reason to spend 150 billion dollars!

If it were 15 billion or something then MAYBE but FFS ....  WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS RIGHT NOW.  Thanks to 11 years of liberal mismanagement we are bloody close to having our credit rating slashed and running out of borrowing power, which is what the Auditor general warned us about, and you want to spend  over 100 billion on a vanity project that will NOT BENEFIT US IN ANY WAY. 

Give your damn head a shake! What the hell is WRONG with people in the east?!?!?!

 

You think 100 billion on defence each year is fine but a one time expense for transport infrastructure that will take decades to build if we start now in the part of the country where over half the population lives and which continues to have by the numbers one of the highest population growth rates in the West isn’t worthwhile?  You clearly haven’t lived in Ontario, where fast movement between these cities is valued by millions.  Alberta will get all the pipelines it can find investors to fund.  I don’t know if you appreciate the scale of the economy in central Canada and the importance of having decent transportation options. The 401 has the heaviest traffic in North America. HSR would be valued here, in a vote-rich part of the country, for multiple reasons. If I were Poilievre I’d either reverse course on his anti-HSR stance or be neutral. It’s not a hill worth dying on. 

Edited April 7 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Barquentine said:

WTF do you know? I voted Conservative in the last provincial election.

You're in ontario aren't you?  If you voted conservative there provincially you voted liberal

[CdnFox]

18 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You think 100 billion on defence each year is fine but a one time expense for transport infrastructure that will take decades to build if we start now in the part of the country where over half the population lives and which continues to have by the numbers one of the highest population growth rates in the West isn’t worthwhile?  You clearly haven’t lived in Ontario, where fast movement between these cities is valued by millions.  Alberta will get all the pipelines it can find investors to fund.  I don’t know if you appreciate the scale of the economy in central Canada and the importance of having decent transportation options. The 401 has the heaviest traffic in North America. HSR would be valued here, in a vote-rich part of the country, for multiple reasons. If I were Poilievre I’d either reverse course on his anti-HSR stance or be neutral. It’s not a hill worth dying on. 

We DON"T spend a 100 billion a year on defense, in fact we spend about HALF that.   And it's the federal gov'ts job to provide for the defense of the country, that's a primary duty! 

And as i noted previously there's no way it's a 'one time' expense.  And yes, an unnecessary rail system that serves a tiny percent of the population is NOT WORTH 2 YEARS OF OUR ENTIRE DEFENSE BUDGET!  Yeash! 

And as I also pointed out seeing as we have to borrow the money we spend about $3 billion dollars a year just in the interest payments, hoping that interest doesn't go up. So over the next 10 years after it's built there's another 30 billion.

And it will not take decades to build. The first phase would be operational 6 years after construction starts, with the final completion about 10 and change years  from start. 

 

and the longer it takes the more prices go up and the more overbudget it goes. 

And as pointed out it's not even close to the highest population growth in the west. The actual west, BC and Alberta, have higher population density, higher population growth.

And if Alberta can have all of the pipelines it can find investors to build then you can have all of the high-speed trains you can find investors to build. And if no investors are interested then that tells you something about how useless it is

This is not a decent transportation option. This is a vanity project servicing a small number of people And will saddle our country with debt that will cripple entire generations

And you still haven't put forward anything even remotely resembling an argument as to how this benefits us other than you like the idea.

[eyeball]

36 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The 401 has the heaviest traffic in North America. HSR would be valued here, in a vote-rich part of the country, for multiple reasons. If I were Poilievre I’d either reverse course on his anti-HSR stance or be neutral. It’s not a hill worth dying on. 

This train line will still only be able to handle a fraction of the traffic.

I'd sooner see 90 billion invested in automating the 401 with computer systems that can synchronize 'trains' of cars all heading to the same destination and probably get them there faster than a HSR.

We're well down the path towards automated driving already so automating our roads to meet this development halfway seems logical and doable. It would basically mean installing WIFI stations along the roads or using satellites to handle the traffic

$90 billion should go a long way towards kick starting this. It would open the door to all sorts of opportunities for tech companies.

They could dedicate a couple of lanes either way for cars already capable of automatic driving and open up more lanes as more capable cars come onto the market. There'd be no need for stations or appropriating property. As I understand it most of the money going towards this is to compensate property owners.

Obviously over time the system could be the expanded anywhere. Canada could position itself to be the world leader in automating road systems.

HSR is already on the path towards obselescence. Jumping onboard now would be typically Canadian.  We should have learned our lesson with PetroCan.

Edited April 7 by eyeball

[Legato]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This train line will still only be able to handle a fraction of the traffic.

I'd sooner see 90 billion invested in automating the 401 with computer systems that can synchronize 'trains' of cars all heading to the same destination and probably get them there faster than a HSR.

We're well down the path towards automated driving already so automating our roads to meet this development halfway seems logical and doable. It would basically mean installing WIFI stations along the roads or using satellites to handle the traffic

$90 billion should go a long way towards kick starting this. It would open the door to all sorts of opportunities for tech companies.

They could dedicate a couple of lanes either way for cars already capable of automatic driving and open up more lanes as more capable cars come onto the market. There'd be no need for stations or appropriating property. As I understand it most of the money going towards this is to compensate property owners.

Obviously over time the system could be the expanded anywhere. Canada could position itself to be the world leader in automating road systems.

Would that be a meat or a cheese & onion.