Canada is one of few western countries that have a failing totalitarian health care system

[blackbird]

This system denies freedom of choice and there is no choice to purchase private health insurance and get treatment.  Anyone may be stuck on a long waiting list and in fact die waiting.  So instead of fixing the failing system by allowing private care, the government offers assisted death to anyone who can't bear it anymore (MAID).  The Marxist ideology is everyone should receive the same poor medical care.  That's Socialist or Marxist ideology.  Everyone must suffer equally.  That's the theory.  But in fact the system doesn't work that way either.  Some, just by good fortune, have a family doctor and millions don't.  Some get some kind of illness such as cancer and end up on long waiting lists and possibly die.  Others don't get that particular disease or are in  different location where the waiting list is much shorter.   There is nothing equal about the universal health care system in Canada.  The only thing one might say is that it is failing equally in a general sense everywhere in Canada.

This makes it a kind of Marxist health care system.

This information below about the options in other countries came from:   SecondStreet.org

Edited November 2 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

France has probably one of the most successful Healthcare systems in the world. You can make some arguments for some of the other ones but honestly they've got it pretty good. 

It's a mix of public and private with more choice and more freedoms and such. It's more expensive but it uses the money more efficiently so they have a very high patient recovery rate and fantastic mortality rate. It's very popular. 

[August1991]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

This system denies freedom of choice and there is no choice to purchase private health insurance and get treatment.  Anyone may be stuck on a long waiting list and in fact die waiting.

.....

I live in Quebec. I have a choice (sometimes costly).

For some health care, I choose to go private - short waiting time.

But the public hospital offers better after-care.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

This system denies freedom of choice and there is no choice to purchase private health insurance and get treatment.  Anyone may be stuck on a long waiting list and in fact die waiting. 

You can buy as much private health insurance as you be want. Not for waiting in an ER though.

In the meantime, I took my wife to the local ER on Monday to look into a flu that wasn't going away. She was admitted to the hospital within an hour and transferred to a larger hospital on Tuesday. 

They found an issue with her liver that can be cleared up with medication but also discovered a more serious issue with her heart.

On Wednesday and Thursday she was given given two CT-scans, two echocardiograms, a biopsy and a device that administers drugs to her heart was inserted today.

She'll be home Wednesday.

The system is working fine from our perspective.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

For some health care, I choose to go private - short waiting time.

For getting a bunion removed or liposuction maybe. But blackbird wants a card or policy that bypasses the waiting room in a public hospital ER for a broken leg or something. 

Triage insurance or something.

[August1991]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

....

She'll be home Wednesday.

The system is working fine from our perspective.

 

IMHO, every discussion of State Health Care becomes a discussion of Life, existence.

====

For old people, we are discussing why they exist.

 

Edited November 2 by August1991

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You can buy as much private health insurance as you be want. Not for waiting in an ER though.

 

Or anything else covered by the health act. And that's a real problem. Of course there are loopholes and basically the government forces you to break the law in order to get something that they should be allowing you to get anyway. Our system is a crap system

[August1991]

47 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Or anything else covered by the health act. And that's a real problem. Of course there are loopholes and basically the government forces you to break the law in order to get something that they should be allowing you to get anyway. Our system is a crap system

When I go public, it occurs to me that the practioner is forced to provide a service.

When I pay private, the people are happy to provide the service.

===

Of course, they always ask if I have private insurance. Ordinary Canadians are clueless of the health care system for people in Ottawa.

Edited November 2 by August1991

[August1991]

Justin Trudeau does not go to the dentist the same way you do.

Heck, Sophie and Hadrien don't either.

====

Years ago, I once lived in this crazy Ottawa world. I can only imagine what it is now.

Washington DC is a universe beyond my thinking.

[August1991]

I want to add this key point:

Bill Clinton and George Bush Jnr travel with a diplomatic red passport.

Elon Musk and Bill Gates travel with a standard blue passport.

====

Macron and Putin have no passport. Like King George III. Sign my own passport?

 

[ExFlyer]

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

This system denies freedom of choice and there is no choice to purchase private health insurance and get treatment.  Anyone may be stuck on a long waiting list and in fact die waiting. 

You can certainly buy private health insurance. You can go to private clinics and get your medical issues resolved. The TV is inundated with medical insurance advertisements LOL

Where have you been?? In the closet or in your pew? LOL

As usual, you are ignorant of reality.

[blackbird]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

The system is working fine from our perspective.

You and yours were fortunate.

I number of years ago I went into the ER with chest pains.  The doctor forgot to give me a clot buster and I had a major heart attack that damaged my heart permanently and it only functions at a fraction of a normal heart now.

My sister had a heart procedure recently that seriously damaged her heart.  She was put on medications to eliminate infection and reduce fluid and was just sent home.  She is on the medications and is extremely weak.  She should never have been given a procedure where they had a serious accident and seriously damaged her heart.

So much for the system that "is working fine from your perspective".

Thousands have died on waiting lists and millions don't even have a family doctor.  ERs are closing sometimes.  Ya, great system.

Edited November 3 by blackbird

[herbie]

Totalitarian Healthcare.

Take 2 Aspirins, if pain continues DIE

The frothing demented extreme right ideologues determined to destroy everything of soical value don't need your help inventing nonsense terms and catchphrases.

 

[WestCanMan]

To be fair to Trudeau, he has made a lot of money selling weed for the gov't, and now we've got all kinds of organs harvested through MAID to sell off, as long as the donors didn't take the pseudovax. 

[suds]

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

This makes it a kind of Marxist health care system.

Yeah, it makes it a kind of 'unfair Marxist health care system'. To make it a 'fair Marxist health care system' they'd have to take the population of Canada, divide it by the number of family doctors available, and then tell each doctor this is the number of people they're responsible for taking care of. And if it takes 4 weeks to make a doctor's appointment instead of the usual 2 or 3 weeks, then what the hell... do you want a fair Marxist health care system or not??? Of course, making the system equally hellish for all people (and doctors included) is not the proper way to fix this.  But nobody seems to have a freaking clue on how to fix this, and it's supposed to get a lot worse before it gets better.

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, suds said:

But nobody seems to have a freaking clue on how to fix this, and it's supposed to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Dentalcare suggests otherwise. Bad teeth if left untreated can lead to poor health so it stands to reason that we'll see less health problems in the future due to dentalcare now. It's an important step in the right direction and better late than never. It also suggests that public policies with this sort of preventative nature baked into them makes things better before they get worse.

[CdnFox]

52 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Dentalcare suggests otherwise. Bad teeth if left untreated can lead to poor health so it stands to reason that we'll see less health problems in the future due to dentalcare now. It's an important step in the right direction and better late than never. It also suggests that public policies with this sort of preventative nature baked into them makes things better before they get worse.

Not even a little bit. Most of the dental care that is now covered by the feds was already covered by the provinces. It even acknowledges that on their website.

We're just not going to see much of a difference

[suds]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Dentalcare suggests otherwise. Bad teeth if left untreated can lead to poor health so it stands to reason that we'll see less health problems in the future due to dentalcare now. It's an important step in the right direction and better late than never. It also suggests that public policies with this sort of preventative nature baked into them makes things better before they get worse.

I don't know much about the dental care stuff, but what you've posted here I can't disagree with. I'm referring to the lack of family doctors for millions of Canadians. I thought I made that pretty clear.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, suds said:

I don't know much about the dental care stuff, but what you've posted here I can't disagree with. I'm referring to the lack of family doctors for millions of Canadians. I thought I made that pretty clear.

Perhaps a minority government, especially where the NDP hold the balance of power, might be able to force a change for the better there as well.

Maybe next time.

And I doubt the NDP would apply the simplistic Marxist approach you described because the notion they're Marxist is silly.

[suds]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Perhaps a minority government, especially where the NDP hold the balance of power, might be able to force a change for the better there as well.

Maybe next time.

And I doubt the NDP would apply the simplistic Marxist approach you described because the notion they're Marxist is silly.

I agree with Fox. The WHO has rated France's system as the best overall healthcare system in the world. It costs a bit more than ours as a percentage of GDP, but also includes dental and prescription drugs. However, everything is not free and the hospitals are both publicly and privately run. Do you figure your NDP would be interested in taking a look at something like that? I sort of doubt it but I could be wrong.

Edited November 3 by suds

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, suds said:

Do you figure your NDP would be interested in something like that? I sort of doubt it but I could be wrong.

I would so I don't see why not. France's  healthcare system is universal, care is 100 free for seniors and the chronically ill and funded through payroll deductions and taxes. Other than that people pay a small fee to be seen by a doctor or specialist. What's there to argue with?

Maybe France is just better at managing things more effectively. In any case I highly doubt anyone gets to buy counter-triage insurance that moves them to the front of the universal line.

[eyeball]

I think maybe people bent on eradicating as much socialization of our healthcare as possible must have a misguided sense of what private in a public/private mix means. The sole medical clinic where I live for example, like many around BC I suspect, is privately owned and operated by doctors who are under contract to the province. The same with specialists I visit in larger centers. I doubt it's very different in France as it would be in any public/private healthcare system that is universal.

It's the universality and socialization of the system that just endlessly rankles people here in Canada and most notably our right wing. It's probably due to the proximity of the US and it's far less universal system and imagining the grass is greener over there.

Maybe Canada just sucks at this stuff is all. Maybe we should hire France to run our healthcare system for us. I've said as much for the same reason I think Canada should have considered getting Norway to manage our oil industry. They had a fraction of the oil reserves we do and leveraged them into $500 billion dollar heritage fund. I bet they probably pay for their healthcare with a good chunk of the interest that fund generates

.

 

 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

On 11/1/2024 at 11:59 PM, eyeball said:

You can buy as much private health insurance as you be want. Not for waiting in an ER though.

In the meantime, I took my wife to the local ER on Monday to look into a flu that wasn't going away. She was admitted to the hospital within an hour and transferred to a larger hospital on Tuesday. 

They found an issue with her liver that can be cleared up with medication but also discovered a more serious issue with her heart.

On Wednesday and Thursday she was given given two CT-scans, two echocardiograms, a biopsy and a device that administers drugs to her heart was inserted today.

She'll be home Wednesday.

The system is working fine from our perspective.

 

You and your wife were extremely lucky.  I'm glad she was able to be seen.  In the spring I took an elderly relative to the ER having a blood pressure emergency (well over 200 resting rate) and had a heart issue and we didn't see a doctor for 18 hours and slept in the ER waiting room in our chairs as did everyone else there.  They had 1 ER doctor on staff overnight.

Besides the wait times, I find our system pretty good.  It seems pretty clear that our provinces did not provide enough financial incentive for nurses and doctors to keep working throughout and after COVID.  Uneven population growth (immigrant preferences toward small town vs big city) also seems like a big issue causing doctor/staff shortages in the small towns and high demand issues in the cities.

[Moonlight Graham]

21 hours ago, August1991 said:

Justin Trudeau does not go to the dentist the same way you do.

Heck, Sophie and Hadrien don't either.

====

Years ago, I once lived in this crazy Ottawa world. I can only imagine what it is now.

Washington DC is a universe beyond my thinking.

Justin Trudeau, his family, and other politicians and elites don't wait in the ER like everyone else.

I had a friend who had a health issue that eventually required surgery.  They worked for a very successful company with a wealthy and well-connected owner.  My friend worked directly for the owner who had contacts with doctors and surgeons in a local hospital and got my friend in for an appointment and surgery immediately.

Someone like Trudeau who grew up with the father he did has never lived a day like a normal Canadian in his entire life and I imagine has never waited in many lines.  You can't solve the problems of the all the regular people in this country when you live a completely different reality than 99.9% of them.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You and your wife were extremely lucky.  I'm glad she was able to be seen. 

We've been lucky this way before. We were both diagnosed with things that required  surgery during COVID with little time to spare or else.

But even little things, like the time I gashed my finger recently and was in and out of the local ER stitched up and back to work within an hour leave me feeling like there's a lot of other things I could be complaining about.

Yes it sucks that there's not enough doctors here we have a Nurse Practitioner in our clinic and a doctor in our ER. Like every other business around here - there's a help wanted sign permanently hanging in the window.