"Joel Kotkin: Western nations cripple their economies with green initiatives while China and others laugh"

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

They are doing MUCH worse as i previously posted. 

Can you repost? I promise I will look objectively.  I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

This was one of the first pages I found...

https://newclimate.org/resources/publications/climate-change-performance-index-2024

China is ranked close to Canada and the USA 

 

[GroundskeeperWillie]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:03 PM, herbie said:

Duh, it's just too hard to make money from Green initiatives.
Say those who don't want to try.

Green initiatives aren't about making money.  They are about saving the planet.  A lofty goal, perhaps, however causes like that aren't known for generating profit.

We have to choose one or the other.

[Aristides]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can you repost? I promise I will look objectively.  I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

This was one of the first pages I found...

https://newclimate.org/resources/publications/climate-change-performance-index-2024

China is ranked close to Canada and the USA 

 

Actually ranked somewhat higher.

[Michael Hardner]

27 minutes ago, GroundskeeperWillie said:

Green initiatives aren't about making money.  They are about saving the planet.  A lofty goal, perhaps, however causes like that aren't known for generating profit.

We have to choose one or the other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_analysis_of_climate_change

1-2% of GDP.  Or something like what we spend on pets.

And how often do people talk about us "going broke" ?

[herbie]

57 minutes ago, GroundskeeperWillie said:

Green initiatives aren't about making money.

You live in a culture where everything is about making money. It's the incentive to get things done.
Don't tell me you forgot that too?

Or are you one of those from the Can'tservative camp of Negative Nellies?

[CdnFox]

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can you repost? I promise I will look objectively.  I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

This was one of the first pages I found...

https://newclimate.org/resources/publications/climate-change-performance-index-2024

China is ranked close to Canada and the USA 

 

So this was like 4 posts before your request.   Seriously  i'm not interested in sealioning where information i've posted again and again and just a few posts earlier keeps getitng  demanded.  

I'll spot you this time  but i think considering you probably just read it that you're being a bit of a dick here. 

Carbon dioxide emissions increase, driven by China, India and aviation | AP News

If China and India were excluded from the count, world carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and cement manufacturing would have dropped, Friedlingstein said.

The world in 2023 increased its annual emissions by 398 million metric tons, but it was in three places: China, India and the skies. China’s fossil fuel emissions went up 458 million metric tons from last year, India’s went up 233 million metric tons and aviation emissions increased 145 million metric tons.

to put it in perspective Canada's entire emissions are just over 700.  So at 2023's increase rate china is increasing by a whole Canada every 18 months or so. 

Edited October 22, 2024 by CdnFox

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

1. So this was like 4 posts before your request.   

2. Seriously  i'm not interested in sealioning where information i've posted again and again and just a few posts earlier keeps getitng  demanded.  

3. I'll spot you this time  but i think considering you probably just read it that you're being a bit of a dick here. 

4. Carbon dioxide emissions increase, driven by China, India and aviation | AP News

 

1. Sorry, you're on ignore So, no I don't see these.

2. If you don't want to provide the background, just ignore me as I do you... I don't know what sea lioning is.

3. I explained that I don't read your posts.  If you think I'm lying, you should never respond to me.  I don't think you're a liar.

4. Ok.  I read the link and can't resolve the difference from my other sources so I'm going to retract my claim until someone can explain the difference with clear details.

 

Edited October 22, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[Aristides]

If we have a big problem with Chinese emissions, maybe we should stop buying all the stuff they manufacture and start doing it ourselves. See how emissions balance out then. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

If we have a big problem with Chinese emissions, maybe we should stop buying all the stuff they manufacture and start doing it ourselves. See how emissions balance out then. 

Well that IS the Trump plan...

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Sorry, you're on ignore So, no I don't see these.

 

Dude we both know that's a lie. You frequently respond to my posts. We have conversations from time to time.

This little ignore trick of yours where you get to avoid whatever posts you don't want to address by pretending people are on ignore he's getting old. Grow up 

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If you don't want to provide the background, just ignore me as I do you... I don't know what sea lioning is.

 

You do know what sea lion is, we've had a discussion about it before. I don't know why I gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe you weren't lying when you asked for the information

Quote

3. I explained that I don't read your posts.  If you think I'm lying, you should never respond to me.  I don't think you're a liar.

You are absolutely a liar. You obviously read my posts because you literally just asked me to provide you with information from a previous post. You even quoted a post. So you're very clearly a liar

 

And why wouldn't I respond to a liar? Now everyone can see that you're a liar and that has value too

You should consider giving honesty a try

 

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. Dude we both know that's a lie. You frequently respond to my posts. We have conversations from time to time.

 

1. Not a lie.  Again, why are you posting to a liar?  I unhide a post of yours if the topic is interesting, from time to time, to look at your comment.

The rest of your post is you calling me a liar, I guess because the idea that I put you on ignore isn't believable to you.

Anyway, I AM glad that you responded as you gave me some new information that caused me to change my position.  Incredible, right?

 

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Not a lie.  Again, why are you posting to a liar? 

 

Again - for the 200th time - there's value in showing that a liar is a liar. 

For example - you're once again pretending i didn't already answer that.  You lie ALL the time Mike 

Quote

I unhide a post of yours if the topic is interesting, from time to time, to look at your comment.

More like once in a while you respond and then pretend the rest of the time i'm "hidden" so you can pretend you didn't void something.

Quote

The rest of your post is you calling me a liar, 

Mostly because of the lying.

Quote

Anyway, I AM glad that you responded as you gave me some new information that caused me to change my position.  Incredible, right?

Hardly "incredible" that you asked for info that was posted 3 posts or so above your reuqest.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Again - for the 200th time - there's value in showing that a liar is a liar. 

For example - you're once again pretending i didn't already answer that.  You lie ALL the time Mike 

More like once in a while you respond and then pretend the rest of the time i'm "hidden" so you can pretend you didn't void something.

Mostly because of the lying.

Hardly "incredible" that you asked for info that was posted 3 posts or so above your reuqest.

No, I don't remember you telling me that it's a good idea to point out my lies.  Fair enough.

You seem to get more annoyed with me when I appreciate your posts.

Oh well... Thanks all the same.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, I don't remember you telling me that it's a good idea to point out my lies.  Fair enough.

Nobody even brought that up

Quote

You seem to get more annoyed with me when I appreciate your posts.

I would have been happier had you appreciated the original post rather than waiting two more posts after it and then asking me to repost the same post   You can see why it's not really the appreciation that's the problem here

[taxme]

On 10/18/2024 at 3:38 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Of course.  That's why you are always posting opinions, as you have been for years.

Your mind is closed.

If you were ever able to post something that made any common bloody sense, it would be a bloody miracle, When will you finally admit that you are a Marxist, comrade. I must admit though that my opinions are a lot better opinions than any of your Marxist opinions, comrade. 

You don't even have a mind, zombie. 🤣

[cougar]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

...... don't even have a mind, zombie. 🤣

Here in BC zombies are the majority - about half voted for a party that wants to bring back the plastic bags and plastic straws and the few disposable plastics that were eliminated as well as increase carbon emissions by more oil and gas and mining projects.

Get used to living with the zombies if you are not one of them already.

[Venandi]

5 hours ago, cougar said:

...about half voted for a party that wants to bring back the plastic bags

Don't know about others, and I don't live in BC, but I used those bags for a lot of things. Everything from paint rollers to stuffing for outdoor archery targets, I'd post a list but it might overtax Herb's attention span.

Now I buy the ones I need and they seem thicker to me, maybe twice as thick (not sure). Anyway, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that my "plastic bag footprint" has  doubled. On the plus side, I do use a lot of cast off shrink wrap for targets now.

And that's another thing BTW, ask any forklift operator about the amount of shrink-wrap used, it's just behind those double doors and out of sight.... shhhhh 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Venandi said:

I'd post a list but it might overtax Herb's attention span.

😂🤣😆🤣😂😅

 

6 hours ago, Venandi said:

Don't know about others, and I don't live in BC, but I used those bags for a lot of things. Everything from paint rollers to stuffing for outdoor archery targets, I'd post a list but it might overtax Herb's attention span.

Now I buy the ones I need and they seem thicker to me, maybe twice as thick (not sure). Anyway, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that my "plastic bag footprint" has  doubled. On the plus side, I do use a lot of cast off shrink wrap for targets now.

And that's another thing BTW, ask any forklift operator about the amount of shrink-wrap used, it's just behind those double doors and out of sight.... shhhhh 

The thing is there's a lot of research out now to suggest that moving to bags the way we did was actually more environmentally wasteful. A quick search online will show a great deal of information along those lines but it turns out that plastic bags are actually extremely environmentally cheap to produce.

It would seem that in a knee-jerk reaction to move to clock because it seemed more environmentally friendly we actually made things worse.

I suppose what they should have done is looked harder at various biodegradable options that broke down over time. Because I like many others did definitely use them for a ton of things. Including his garbage bags in my various little garbage cans around the place which I now buy plastic bags for.

[herbie]

10 hours ago, Venandi said:

Don't know about others, and I don't live in BC, but I used those bags for a lot of things. Everything from paint rollers to stuffing for outdoor archery targets, I'd post a list but it might overtax Herb's attention span.

Oh you used them for something before they went in the landfill to rot in 500 years or so. How 'greeb' of you.
Most people used them as kitchen garbage bags, so that compost inside couldn't rot for 500 years either. Others picked their dog turds off their lawn and did the same, then ran out and paid Dow or Monsanto for chemical lawn ferilizer too.

We figured it out eventually, maybe someday you will too. We also figured out making election promises to reverse every environmental step forward makes you unworthy of office in this day and age.
 

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, herbie said:

Oh you used them for something before they went in the landfill to rot in 500 years or so. How 'greeb' of you.

Like was mentioned, now he uses other plastic such as garbage bags which are also going to go to the landfill. Meanwhile it turns out that the environmental cost of making the cloth bags is far higher than making the plastic bags was so they're actually less environmentally friendly.

Think cloth bags are better for the environment? Think again | CBC Radio

So once again, you have failed to follow the science and allowed your echo chamber talking points to get you all worked up in a fit of environmental self-righteous rage that is completely unjustified.

Well done. Get another example of how the environmentalists prefer feelings to facts

[Venandi]

13 hours ago, herbie said:

Oh you used them for something before they went in the landfill to rot in 500 years or so. How 'greeb' of you.

Yes you nasty little troll, I used them for a number of other purposes and I used them to the maximum extent possible... it just seemed wasteful not to do that. In any case, other than the ones used in (things like) house painting, I actually made a point of recycling them. Lots were used as outdoor target stuffers before being recycled.

That said, I'm a bit suspicious about the recycling effort itself. I fear the program may be run by incompetent, self righteous fools and that, as you suggest, much of it actually does end up in landfill despite the effort made by people to recycle. Being as you seem to identify with that group, I reluctantly defer to your assessment because it sounds foolish enough to be true.

Probably to much reading for ya here (that TLDNR thing) but the point was (and remains) that anyone who actually did use them for other purposes (yes, like me) is now buying them for the exact same purpose and the ones they're buying seem to be thicker.

As a result, It wouldn't surprise me to learn that there's been an increase in overall plastic recycling and disposal as a direct result... which seems contrary to the original intent. I don't care enough to look that up for you though... go fetch.

 

Edited October 25, 2024 by Venandi

[Venandi]

From CBC (today) and right on cue:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paper-bags-ban-walmart-1.7358649

Makes you wonder what the odds of achieving  a coordinated global response to climate change are when we can't even get the bags right.   

Herb... get yourself a wheelbarrow, they're reusable and they're great exercise. A clear benefit for the planet and your aerobic fitness.

And in addition,  the attendant reduction in available screen time (while you push it) is sure to be appreciated by forum users. 

Off topic maybe but not by much... here's a mindlessly wasteful practice in a hungry world:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/charlebois-canadas-dairy-waste-time-to-legalize-raw-milk

Farm boys have been drinking raw milk in excess of quota their entire lives, after leaving the farm and moving on some of them still do, so do their kids... and their grand kids. For context on the amount of waste, an olympic size swimming pool holds 2.5 million litres. By my reckoning, that's about 400 olympic pools worth.

Need a plastic straw Herb?

Edited October 25, 2024 by Venandi

[Goddess]

Wasn't it last year it was reported that China was building 2 new coal plants a week and was responsible for 95% of the world's  coal power construction?

Logic aside, it's bizarre to make the claim that China is doing about the same as the West in reducing CO2.

Any of the itsy-bitsy gains made by Canada is eaten up by China in about 4 seconds.

Maybe we could make a bigger difference if the climate change alarmist industry stopped grifting and actually used the $41 billion to do something besides fund more private jets for billionaires.

[Aristides]

China needs these power plants to manufacture all the crap we buy from them.

[taxme]

On 10/23/2024 at 10:25 PM, cougar said:

Here in BC zombies are the majority - about half voted for a party that wants to bring back the plastic bags and plastic straws and the few disposable plastics that were eliminated as well as increase carbon emissions by more oil and gas and mining projects.

Get used to living with the zombies if you are not one of them already.

I remember decades ago when the Marxist bunch of environmental wackos wanted to end tree cutting to save the trees. So, we went to plastic. Now we are trying to end the use of plastic bags and straws which means that more trees will have to be cut down and sacrificed to make paper bags to put our groceries in.

The stupidity of it all never ends when government gets involved with anything. The government always caters to a minority of leftist activist commie snowflakes that never offer anything but chaos and mayhem. 

We can buy environmentally friendly biodegradable poop bags for our dogs, but yet, why can't our plastic grocery bags not made biodegradable? I wish that governments would just FO and leave me the phk alone. Works for me. 😇