ExFlyer Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 (edited) “We’re here today, not just about telework, we’re here about the future of work,” said the Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) national president Sharon DeSousa at the rally, held by PSAC, the Canadian Association of Professional Employees (CAPE) and the Association of Canadian Financial Officers (ACFO). “Telework has given us the balance we need in our lives. More time with our families, engaging in our communities, while keeping this country moving.” https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/public-servants-rally-as-new-return-to-office-mandate-takes-effect/ar-AA1qgOO3?cvid=4d83ff6fe1074a2cf7f0cf31f0e08b6d&ei=13 Yup, go ahead and protest that you have to back to the office to work on extra day. How much sympathy do you think the general public will give?? Answer......None!!! Also, you say there are not enough desks?? Well your ranks have dramatically increased with the Liberals. Wait till the Conservatives get back in and start to cut the PS way down again. There will be lots of empty desks and many of you can stay home....permanently LOL No sympathy from me...they should be in the offcie 5 days a week. And I was a public servant. Edited September 10 by ExFlyer 3 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
herbie Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 Yes, now it's proven those hue office buildings aren't necessary DO NOT convert them into apartments and housing. Refill them with redundant managers and supervisors. And being so busy solving contracts for ports, railways and airlines the govt has had no time in the last 3 years to negotiate work from home into their own people's. This shouldn't even be an issue. We all know buildings full of hamster cages were inefficient in a lot of cases, so work out what is and isn't and adapt. WITH the cooperation of employees! Quote
ExFlyer Posted September 10 Author Report Posted September 10 1 hour ago, herbie said: Yes, now it's proven those hue office buildings aren't necessary DO NOT convert them into apartments and housing. Refill them with redundant managers and supervisors. And being so busy solving contracts for ports, railways and airlines the govt has had no time in the last 3 years to negotiate work from home into their own people's. This shouldn't even be an issue. We all know buildings full of hamster cages were inefficient in a lot of cases, so work out what is and isn't and adapt. WITH the cooperation of employees! Actually redundant public servants. When the conservatives get in they will slash the PS back to pre covid and there will be enough desks for them ll to sit at. It seems the PS thinks they run the show. They are employees and the government is the employer and they work under the requirements and rules set out by the government. I was a public servant and have never worked with or been around a bigger group of entitled A holes in my life. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
cannuck Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 The business of government should be restricted to governing: i.e. legislate, regulate and enforce - plus essential public services. The rest is a complete waste of resources and should stop overnight. Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 (edited) Work from home does not mean no work. It means working but from home to save on wasteful driving time and parking cost. They still have to work 5 days a week and report equivalent of 5 days work to supervisors at the end of every week and this has been the case ever since the beginning of pandemic.. In addition, I hear that the work place has changed for everyone. PS workers mostly engaged with heavy computer work now have to work in an open space without any private offices in a noisy shared environment. PS workers are claiming they are more productive working from home and maybe the noisy working environment is the reason for that but I think the real reason for government push is complains from local business losing money. PS workers don't have sympathy for local business to make sacrifices so that they make bigger profits, Though latest polls indicate a majority conservative government but I am not so sure as on the election day most Canadians will think twice before giving a blank cheque to conservatives. The nightmare of the majority Harper government is still fresh in the minds of most Canadians. A likely minority government cannot cut and burn the Public Service as described in the OP. Edited September 10 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
ExFlyer Posted September 10 Author Report Posted September 10 13 minutes ago, cannuck said: The business of government should be restricted to governing: i.e. legislate, regulate and enforce - plus essential public services. The rest is a complete waste of resources and should stop overnight. And what is "essential public service"? The tax people? The ones that cut the EI cheques? Theh ones that over see the legislative files? The ones thet are oversight? It is like saying the only one essential in a doctors office is the doctor but who is going to wipe your ass when you shit on his table? Who is going to clean the table?? Who is going to take the dirty laundry away? LOL It is an easy and uninformed thing to say, fire everyone that is not essential but, you need to identify what and who is essential. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Army Guy Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 2 hours ago, herbie said: Yes, now it's proven those hue office buildings aren't necessary DO NOT convert them into apartments and housing. Refill them with redundant managers and supervisors. And being so busy solving contracts for ports, railways and airlines the govt has had no time in the last 3 years to negotiate work from home into their own people's. This shouldn't even be an issue. We all know buildings full of hamster cages were inefficient in a lot of cases, so work out what is and isn't and adapt. WITH the cooperation of employees! Having to convert office space into homes is not the issue here....got nothing to do with Civil service, BTW how is that working out so far....This is about civil service wanting to take that inch the government gave them and turn it into a mile...... Last time i checked the Employer sets out the rules and policies for each employee to follow, don't like those rules then yes by all means there is the door, there are thousands of Canadians who would blow a dead bear for those high paying civil service jobs....None of them are irreplaceable, just another squirrel on the wheel.... Meanwhile there are thousands of civil servants that need to come into the office to work, all across the country They are not compensated for their drive in to work, Day care, getting to spend more time with their families, or give to their communities...no they are to busy working for the government... They just got a huge raise in pay this year, on top of all that for the last two years they have not had to pay for parking, gas to get back and forth to work and in some case day care as they are home every day, getting to see family more, even have time to get involved with the community....start adding all that up and your looking at more than a few hundred dollars each week they are saving...And while they are off doing all of this they are not getting work down they could have done while in an office under supervision... Many are retiring....in protest...these are well paying jobs, and would be welcomed by new and younger Canadians eager to have a chance at government benefits... I like, EXFLER worked for the military for a long time, then went to work in the civil service for 5 years, and he is right they have grown into an entitled group of pussies...for the most part...they are always whining about something or letting you know what they can do or what they can't... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 34 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Work from home does not mean no work. It means working but from home to save on wasteful driving time and parking cost. They still have to work 5 days a week and report equivalent of 5 days work to supervisors at the end of every week and this has been the case ever since the beginning of pandemic.. In addition, I hear that the work place has changed for everyone. PS workers mostly engaged with heavy computer work now have to work in an open space without any private offices in a noisy shared environment. PS workers are claiming they are more productive working from home and maybe the noisy working environment is the reason for that but I think the real reason for government push is complains from local business losing money. PS workers don't have sympathy for local business to make sacrifices so that they make bigger profits, Though latest polls indicate a majority conservative government but I am not so sure as on the election day most Canadians will think twice before giving a blank cheque to conservatives. The nightmare of the majority Harper government is still fresh in the minds of most Canadians. A likely minority government cannot cut and burn the Public Service as described in the OP. So the cry's for mom, or kids in the home are not going to be a distraction...the delivery guy coming to the door, sales [people, mormons, the neighbor coming over for coffee...how about running errands, here and there....not all their time is on the computer... PS workers are claiming a lot, there have been studies that also say working from home is not as productive as in the office under direct supervision...and vice versa ...you can't tell me that everyone is working harder.... Your not thinking clearly, the conservatives are going to win a majority, you should get use to that idea...The sky is not going to fall, the sun will rise in the east and set in the west, you'll be OK just like the conservatives have done you will survive the 16 years of conservative rule... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 53 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: It is like saying the only one essential in a doctors office is the doctor but who is going to wipe your ass when you shit on his table? Who is going to clean the table?? Who is going to take the dirty laundry away? LOL You're saying even custodial workers are paid for doing their job from home now? Driving those little vacuum cleaners by remote control? You still need someone to empty them and keep the filter clean. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Moonbox Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 7 hours ago, ExFlyer said: We’re here today, not just about telework, we’re here about the future of work,” said the Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) national president Sharon DeSousa at the rally, held by PSAC, the Canadian Association What brave crusaders. They're all fighting for ME and my KIDS and the future of WORK! I totally believe that public sector workers who are almost impossible to fire for poor performance and whose pay is based on seniority are more productive from home. 🫠 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
herbie Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 Kowtow to the Boss is 2nd to God philosophy? It's about the govt tests something out, sees it works and costs less and insists on going back to the status quo. Big companies are doing it too as they have so much invested in the office infrastructure. If you own a cafe or coffee shop or parking lot that caters to the office crowd, you got a legitimate complaint. If you're a supervisor that misses a bunch of people to stare over their shoulder and micromanage you hace a legitimate gripe. Otherwise, stuff it you're just sour grapes that somebody somewhere got a job with better conditions than yours and have the guts to oppose that being taken away. Jealousy that these union people can do something when your Boss would just say 'Get out, you're fired' is sure what it sounds like. Quote
ExFlyer Posted September 10 Author Report Posted September 10 16 minutes ago, eyeball said: You're saying even custodial workers are paid for doing their job from home now? Driving those little vacuum cleaners by remote control? You still need someone to empty them and keep the filter clean. When and where did I say that?? LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
eyeball Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 12 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: When and where did I say that?? LOL It seemed you were wondering if custodial workers were essential. Surely they're less essential now with fewer workers leaving a mess to clean up. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted September 10 Report Posted September 10 20 minutes ago, herbie said: Kowtow to the Boss is 2nd to God philosophy? It's about the govt tests something out, sees it works and costs less and insists on going back to the status quo. Big companies are doing it too as they have so much invested in the office infrastructure. If you own a cafe or coffee shop or parking lot that caters to the office crowd, you got a legitimate complaint. If you're a supervisor that misses a bunch of people to stare over their shoulder and micromanage you hace a legitimate gripe. Otherwise, stuff it you're just sour grapes that somebody somewhere got a job with better conditions than yours and have the guts to oppose that being taken away. Jealousy that these union people can do something when your Boss would just say 'Get out, you're fired' is sure what it sounds like. It had nothing to do with testing anything out, it was covid, remember that, everyone sent home, then came this hybrid system...working from home in some Public service jobs...not all but some...3/4 of the other Public service employees are back in the office...and have been for a while now... It has got nothing to do with jealousy, the other Union members of PSAC are back to work in the office, and DO not get compensated for gas to back and forth to work, child care, parking, that add up to hundreds of dollars per week....The government has been extremely generous letting them have these benefits for so long, on top of the raise they just got...If they get these benefits Then rest of majority of the union will want to get it's piece of the pie as well, worth a couple hundred a week.... it is not worth the cost... Like i said the employer gets to set the rules and policies, the inmates do not run the asylum....if they don't like it quit, and give those who want those jobs the opportunity... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
ExFlyer Posted September 11 Author Report Posted September 11 14 hours ago, eyeball said: It seemed you were wondering if custodial workers were essential. Surely they're less essential now with fewer workers leaving a mess to clean up. My initial questiont was "And what is "essential public service"? The tax people? The ones that cut the EI cheques? Theh ones that over see the legislative files? " You said "You're saying even custodial workers are paid for doing their job from home now?" And I asked where and when did I say that. I cannot be responsible for your imaginary understanding. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
cannuck Posted September 11 Report Posted September 11 18 hours ago, ExFlyer said: And what is "essential public service"? The tax people? The ones that cut the EI cheques? Theh ones that over see the legislative files? The ones thet are oversight? It is like saying the only one essential in a doctors office is the doctor but who is going to wipe your ass when you shit on his table? Who is going to clean the table?? Who is going to take the dirty laundry away? LOL It is an easy and uninformed thing to say, fire everyone that is not essential but, you need to identify what and who is essential. The majority of what government and its employees do is to dispense privilege in the process of picking winners and losers in manipulation of economy and society - NOT delivering essential services. Quote
Black Dog Posted September 11 Report Posted September 11 On 9/10/2024 at 8:31 AM, ExFlyer said: No sympathy from me...they should be in the offcie 5 days a week. And I was a public servant. Actually nobody should be in the office 5 days a week. 1 1 1 Quote "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis M. Wilhoit
ExFlyer Posted September 11 Author Report Posted September 11 6 minutes ago, cannuck said: The majority of what government and its employees do is to dispense privilege in the process of picking winners and losers in manipulation of economy and society - NOT delivering essential services. Huh?? LOL Like insurance or police ,all is a waste....until you need it. LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
eyeball Posted September 11 Report Posted September 11 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: And I asked where and when did I say that. You didn't. I merely asked if that's what you were saying. I was being facetious. Yes it's my fault. Sorry. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ExFlyer Posted September 11 Author Report Posted September 11 1 hour ago, eyeball said: You didn't. I merely asked if that's what you were saying. I was being facetious. Yes it's my fault. Sorry. Sorry id I misinterpreted but, the wording of your post was ambiguous. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
ExFlyer Posted September 13 Author Report Posted September 13 https://ottawacitizen.com/news/bats-rats-and-bedbugs-ottawa-public-servants-returning-to-pest-ridden-buildings Lemee see if have this right? Most PS have been going in 2 times a week and now that they have to go in 1 extra day a week they discover rats bats and insects?? They appeared overnight on that extra day they had to go to work?? Sounds like the excuses are running rampant. When PSAC even told members to boycott the shops and restaurants downtown in protest to the extra day hurting small business owners that have suffered and had no income for 4 years. If any non PS tried this, they would be at home, permanently. Almost all Canada have no pity for the PS and they are only making it worse. When Conservatives get in and they slash the PS, a lot of them will be at home LOL 1 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Moonbox Posted September 13 Report Posted September 13 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: If any non PS tried this, they would be at home, permanently. Almost all Canada have no pity for the PS and they are only making it worse. When Conservatives get in and they slash the PS, a lot of them will be at home LOL That’s really the crux of the matter, isn’t it? They’re already significantly overcompensated (counting their benefits) and it’s almost impossible to get rid of low-performers. While Canadians overpay for unproductive PS employees, they are going to battle for even more entitlements? Justin and the Liberals sold Canada out to the Public Service Unions, a huge voting bloc they know they can count on. Now the consequences for that come home… Edited September 13 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
ExFlyer Posted September 13 Author Report Posted September 13 4 minutes ago, Moonbox said: That’s really the crux of the matter, isn’t it? They’re already significantly overcompensated (counting their benefits) and it’s almost impossible to get rid of low-performers. While Canadians overpay for unproductive PS employees, they are going to battle for even more entitlements? Justin and the Liberals sold Canada out to the Public Service Unions, a huge voting bloc they know they can count on. Now the consequences for that come home… I was in the public service and can say most I worked with were reasonable people but their unrealistic devotion to the union was to me, intolerable. They are as bad as Trumpians, no matter what the union said, they believed it, unquestionably. Thy were sheeple at worst and unknowing at best. When a union, which is supposedly for the little guy tells its members to boycott small restaurants and shops that have had almost zero business for 4 years, you have to wonder who the unuon is actually for. The PS is pissed that they have to go in 3 days a week. To the uninformed, it seems like zero to three is a burden but in fact most have been going in 2 days a week already so it is only one extra day. The union and members are upset abut going in bit not upset enough to take a cut in pay for saving bus fare, clothing purchase, meals, day care, gas, parking fees or other employment expenses etc etc that they saved for the past 4 years but in fact, were striking to het more and higher wages. I cannot gather any sympathy for that rntrie group of enentoierl employees. Most , if not all major companies are telling their employees to get back in the office. https://www.forbes.com/sites/shephyken/2023/09/24/nine-out-of-10-companies-will-require-employees-to-return-to-the-office/ I worked in an area with engineers, procurement staff, researchers etc and had more then half a dozen admin staff to support them. What on earth did this admin staff do when they were all working from home??/They had no one to support? There are thousands if admin support workers with zero to support.. 1 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Moonbox Posted September 13 Report Posted September 13 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: The union and members are upset abut going in bit not upset enough to take a cut in pay for saving bus fare, clothing purchase, meals, day care, gas, parking fees or other employment expenses etc etc that they saved for the past 4 years but in fact, were striking to het more and higher wages. and that's always the dishonest conceit of these complaints. This isn't about worker's rights or anything of the sort. This is about the public sector demanding and demanding, and never conceding anything. In my mind, it's not even just about them demanding more when they don't deserve it, it's that they're already objectively getting much more than they're warranted. Every disingenuous complaint always boils down to the money. As you say, the union is supposed to be for the little guy, but that's not how it works in the public service ones. Folks complain about the corporations swindling the people, but they're just one side of the coin. The other side is our monolithic public service - now ~25% of the workforce and a domineering political class of its own. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
herbie Posted September 13 Report Posted September 13 (edited) This is about your Charter Rights to negotiate working conditions. And again, they're protesting not striking. Another Charter Right. You against either of those? Non public sector workers can do the same thing if they want and some have already. Believe me, this will be an item in their next contract negotiation. Edited September 13 by herbie Quote
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