3 Work Days a week Too Much for the PS

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

This is about your Charter Rights to negotiate working conditions. And again, they're protesting not striking. Another Charter Right.

You against either of those?

Non public sector workers can do the same thing if they want and some have already.
Believe me, this will be an item in their next contract negotiation.

The charter does protect these actions, but no where in the charter does it say the employer has to be black mailed into a position it does not want...

The key word there is negotiate...the employer does not have to concede to anything...None of these PS employee are indispensable....even if they strike, how long can you feed your family on strike pay...if they are essential workers then the can be legislated back to work...

This is not all PS workers, but rather the few that can work from home, most PS workers are back to work 5 days a week, and have been since the restrictions from covid were removed ....these workers make up a slim minority of the entire PS work force. 

[I am Groot]

8 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I was in the public service and can say most I worked with were reasonable people but their unrealistic devotion to the union was to me, intolerable.

Just where did you work? What department/city?

I've never worked anywhere that people gave a damn about the union. Most places I went they didn't even know who their local shop steward was. Almost nobody ever went to the union meetings to vote on anything except when contracts came up. Even then the turnout was low.

[I am Groot]

So let me give my viewpoint as a former PS worker.

First, I liked some of the places I worked. One of them, my longest stint, was a great place to work and there wasn't a single day that I woke up and thought "Damn, have to go to work". We were a great group and enjoyed working with and socializing with each other. Everyone ate lunch together, and we all went out somewhere for birthdays.

My cubicle was my second home. I had the overhead lights removed and supplied my own lamps. I had a nice radio, a sweater in case it got too cool, a heater under the desk, a special chair that the department paid $1500 for, a little fountain on the desk, posters on the walls, a visitors chair, coat rack, snacks in the drawers (and drugs for headaches and colds), etc. etc. 

That's not the way things are today. The government, in its wisdom, decided that work from home was the new thing. They encouraged it, then required it, especially during covid. So sure of themselves were they that they started closing down buildings, something like twenty, and readying them for sale. The others, they removed all the cubicles and put in place an open-concept 'hot desk' environment where nobody had a desk. Instead, they have to reserve a desk online, and they can't keep reserving the same one, either. Don't want people to get too comfortable there!

There are... problems with this. For some, quite a few of them in fact, talking is what they do all day. Customer service people answering the phone and talking non-stop, for example. Managers and executives in endless meetings, almost all on-line now, many discussing confidential matters.  But even managers and executives don't have offices anymore. 

So I'm sympathetic to the people I know who have to pack everything, including their laptop, take the bus and LRT into work, unpack it all, set up, hope the chair functions, hope they can get things plugged in right, and then just sit there and talk into the microphone and looking at their TEAMS screen the same way they did at home. Especially when they're no longer even sitting with their own groups and managers. 

You think they can be better supervised? Hey, I tried to manage people once in a directorate where my people were on three different floors. What a pain in the ass that was! Try it with them on ten floors, and where you don't even know where their desk is and have to keep looking because they move around every day!

This is a complete screwup and the government is responsible, not the schmucks suffering on that ridiculous mess of an LRT (another complete screwup) to get to and from work. The time wasted in setup and breaking down is a complete loss. And people were already fighting over the better desks and chairs and telling each other to SHHHH! It's just gotten worse. There's no way in hell this is not leading to a productivity loss. And even after the tories start laying people off there won't be enough offices for those remaining. Some departments are now frantically trying to rent space in other buildings.

Imbeciles.

Edited September 13 by I am Groot

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

For some, quite a few of them in fact, talking is what they do all day. Customer service people answering the phone and talking non-stop, for example. Managers and executives in endless meetings, almost all on-line now, many discussing confidential matters.  But even managers and executives don't have offices anymore.

This sounds like a perfect job for AI - put the whole shebang up into the Cloud.

[CdnFox]

Meh. 
Working at home for many people is more productive. That's been shown already, and with a little better tech and management it gets even better. 

I get that some people are angry that the civil service already gets massive benefits they probably don't deserve and this feels like they're "Getting" something else.  Fair enough. 

Then a dollar value should be assigned to working from home based on the savings the employee gets. and that should be taken from their 'increase'.   If they save on average 300 dollars in fuel, save on average 1.5 hours travel time that would normally have to be spent etc etc then take a percentage of that into consideration and say that working from home is considered to be a 300 dollar a month benefit that they can take off their paycheque OR they can get full pay and come into the office (or split it or whatever). 

At the end of the day tho i believe it should be up to the departments to figure out.  A big 'one size fits all' mandate for all people doesn't make sense. 

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Just where did you work? What department/city?

I've never worked anywhere that people gave a damn about the union. Most places I went they didn't even know who their local shop steward was. Almost nobody ever went to the union meetings to vote on anything except when contracts came up. Even then the turnout was low.

The department is not relevant.

Have you never heard of PSAC or PIPSC or CUPE? Extremely powerful unions.

They are the true force behind the government workers. I can assure you every government worker is very aware of their union

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, I am Groot said:

So let me give my viewpoint as a former PS worker.

First, I liked some of the places I worked. One of them, my longest stint, was a great place to work and there wasn't a single day that I woke up and thought "Damn, have to go to work". We were a great group and enjoyed working with and socializing with each other. Everyone ate lunch together, and we all went out somewhere for birthdays.

My cubicle was my second home. I had the overhead lights removed and supplied my own lamps. I had a nice radio, a sweater in case it got too cool, a heater under the desk, a special chair that the department paid $1500 for, a little fountain on the desk, posters on the walls, a visitors chair, coat rack, snacks in the drawers (and drugs for headaches and colds), etc. etc. 

That's not the way things are today. The government, in its wisdom, decided that work from home was the new thing. They encouraged it, then required it, especially during covid. So sure of themselves were they that they started closing down buildings, something like twenty, and readying them for sale. The others, they removed all the cubicles and put in place an open-concept 'hot desk' environment where nobody had a desk. Instead, they have to reserve a desk online, and they can't keep reserving the same one, either. Don't want people to get too comfortable there!

There are... problems with this. For some, quite a few of them in fact, talking is what they do all day. Customer service people answering the phone and talking non-stop, for example. Managers and executives in endless meetings, almost all on-line now, many discussing confidential matters.  But even managers and executives don't have offices anymore. 

So I'm sympathetic to the people I know who have to pack everything, including their laptop, take the bus and LRT into work, unpack it all, set up, hope the chair functions, hope they can get things plugged in right, and then just sit there and talk into the microphone and looking at their TEAMS screen the same way they did at home. Especially when they're no longer even sitting with their own groups and managers. 

You think they can be better supervised? Hey, I tried to manage people once in a directorate where my people were on three different floors. What a pain in the ass that was! Try it with them on ten floors, and where you don't even know where their desk is and have to keep looking because they move around every day!

This is a complete screwup and the government is responsible, not the schmucks suffering on that ridiculous mess of an LRT (another complete screwup) to get to and from work. The time wasted in setup and breaking down is a complete loss. And people were already fighting over the better desks and chairs and telling each other to SHHHH! It's just gotten worse. There's no way in hell this is not leading to a productivity loss. And even after the tories start laying people off there won't be enough offices for those remaining. Some departments are now frantically trying to rent space in other buildings.

Imbeciles.

I thought you knew nothing about unions. Sounds like you were in the PS so you had to know.

Quite a story LOL

First, the "laptop" thing was going on long before covid . Desktop computers were replaced by laptops 10+ years ago. Folks were able to take laptops home or to away from office meetings and were able to log on a secure system. Packing up the laptop a was being done long before covid.

Now, working form home was also done long before covid but it was by special disposition and had to be approved by several layers of management.

COVID happened and instead of laying off people,, the government said during the pandemic, all employees can work from home. There by saving employees a great deal of personal money. During their work at home tenure, they decided to strike and ask for more money, which they got. No one took into account the money they saved by not having to come into the office.

I have no sympathy for public servants having to go back to the way things were 4 years ago. Back to normal.

COVID is over and the government said employees have to work in the office 2 days a week. Now, they increased it to 3 days a week and all hell broke out...for an extra day LOL.  BTW, their unions did not do or say anything about where the workers work during the contract negotiations. When the union told it;'s ,embers to boycott local restaurants and stores when they went back into the office was a despicable demand. These small businesses endured bankruptcy rir 4 years etc and some remained open regardless and the union tells int people not to use them....disgusting.

As for the LRT, I remember when it first opened and the same crowded platforms happened then as they do now. My feelings on the LRT are very strong and I am convinced the city of Ottawa completely pooched the entire project and mismanagement is not an unusual circumstance but the norm .

Also, working form home wa a thing to do during COVID but almost all major companies and corporations aer telling people to get back in the office now.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/11/90percent-of-companies-say-theyll-return-to-the-office-by-the-end-of-2024.html

 

 

 

Edited September 14 by ExFlyer

[I am Groot]

47 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The department is not relevant.

Have you never heard of PSAC or PIPSC or CUPE? Extremely powerful unions.

They are the true force behind the government workers. I can assure you every government worker is very aware of their union

Dude, I was in PSAC. And nobody ever thought twice about the union. Most had no idea who their local president was much less anything else about them.

[I am Groot]

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I thought you knew nothing about unions. Sounds like you were in the PS so you had to know.

I happened to sit next to one of the local shop stewards who later became president of the local. 

 

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

First, the "laptop" thing was going on long before covid . Desktop computers were replaced by laptops 10+ years ago.

Only in some places and only for some. And even those who had the laptop and dock system didn't bring them home every night, just now and then. They also tended to be higher-up people, not the general run-of-the-mill worker.

 

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

COVID happened and instead of laying off people,, the government said during the pandemic, all employees can work from home.

Employees weren't given a choice, generally.

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

During their work at home tenure, they decided to strike and ask for more money, which they got.

They didn't really get much of anything. And their 'raise' was less than the rate of inflation. 

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I have no sympathy for public servants having to go back to the way things were 4 years ago. Back to normal.

It's not normal. I thought I had made that clear. They don't have offices to go back to. And why go back to 'norma' if the way things are now is working better?

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

  BTW, their unions did not do or say anything about where the workers work during the contract negotiations.

Oh yes they most certainly did. It was one of the main issues.

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Also, working form home wa a thing to do during COVID but almost all major companies and corporations aer telling people to get back in the office now

The work in those companies is usually different from the government. And as I pointed out, the government has already closed up 22 office buildings for sale. And on top of that hired a bunch more people. They don't have space for them.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Dude, I was in PSAC. And nobody ever thought twice about the union. Most had no idea who their local president was much less anything else about them.

Dude...they sure seem to support them in their strike protests and even now at the rallys iin downtown Ottawa;l Lost of union people protesting so, they certainly do know about tand support he union

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I happened to sit next to one of the local shop stewards who later became president of the local. 

 

Only in some places and only for some. And even those who had the laptop and dock system didn't bring them home every night, just now and then. They also tended to be higher-up people, not the general run-of-the-mill worker.

 

Employees weren't given a choice, generally.

They didn't really get much of anything. And their 'raise' was less than the rate of inflation. 

It's not normal. I thought I had made that clear. They don't have offices to go back to. And why go back to 'norma' if the way things are now is working better?

Oh yes they most certainly did. It was one of the main issues.

The work in those companies is usually different from the government. And as I pointed out, the government has already closed up 22 office buildings for sale. And on top of that hired a bunch more people. They don't have space for them.

Name dropping doe not help your cause LOL

Correct, they were told to stay home or quit, except got those deemed necessary.

Lemme see, they saved all ther employment and day care and bus fare and work lunches and did not have to dress for office and/or pay for parking and saved gas so...yes, they got a lot (or saved a lot). As for their strike action, they fot wjat they negotiated which was a raise and some benefits. The union worked for them LOL

As I said, over 10 years ago they started to do away with cubicles for "community" work spaces. That and the liberals increased the size of the PS dramatically during covid so yeas, it will be crowded till the conservatives get in and slash the PS LOL

Oh no, they did not. There is no mention of where the employees work. there is not work form home in any parts of the contract. You are completely wrong. That is the issue. the unions want to fight it but they have no grounds.

The work in those private companies are essentially the same.. The have as much ability to work from home (because they did) as government workers do, regardless of tasks.. and the companies are telling them to get back in the office or depart

No, they never closed any buildings. They made proposals to sell them and covert them to housing but, like almost everything liberals say, it is a proposal and not a done deal. It will not happen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

Again it is important to clarify the misleading concept that it is NOT 3 days a week working which the thread title says. It is 5 days working per week but 3 days of that in the office and 2 days of that from home which is working also and weekly progress work needs ro be submitted to supervisors at the end of the week. When working from home, employees are monitored by supervisors also to ensure they are logged in and working.

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Dude...they sure seem to support them in their strike protests and even now at the rallys iin downtown Ottawa;l Lost of union people protesting so, they certainly do know about tand support he union

I have my doubts you ever worked for the government in a civilian capacity, unless it was some isolated regional branch.

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Lemme see, they saved all ther employment and day care and bus fare and work lunches and did not have to dress for office and/or pay for parking and saved gas so...yes, they got a lot (or saved a lot). As for their strike action, they fot wjat they negotiated which was a raise and some benefits. The union worked for them LOL

Yeahh, we are approaching this from different directions. I'm approaching it from the perspective of efficiency and cost and you seem to be totally gripped by resentment and jealousy.

 

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh no, they did not. There is no mention of where the employees work. there is not work form home in any parts of the contract. You are completely wrong.

I said that the topic was a major issue in the bargaining and strike. I didn't say they got what they wanted. Don't tell me I'm completely wrong when you clearly don't even understand what I wrote. 

 

 

Edited September 14 by I am Groot

[ExFlyer]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I have my doubts you ever worked for the government in a civilian capacity, unless it was some isolated regional branch.

Yeahh, we are approaching this from different directions. I'm approaching it from the perspective of efficiency and cost and you seem to be totally gripped by resentment and jealousy.

 

I said that the topic was a major issue in the bargaining and strike. I didn't say they got what they wanted. Don't tell me I'm completely wrong when you clearly don't even understand what I wrote. 

 

 

You can doubt all you want but I have more than 10 years in PWGSC in Ottawa. in Major Crown projects. Retired a PG6 (after cancer diagnosis and surgery)

You have no proof of efficiency whatsoever. Neither does the union or they would have used it already. I am retired so no sweat off my balls.  As I already posted, most major companies are calling the employees back into the office.

It may have been a topic but, nothing was done or promised and the union took the money instead.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

You can doubt all you want but I have more than 10 years in PWGSC in Ottawa. in Major Crown projects. Retired a PG6 (after cancer diagnosis and surgery)

I doubt anyone any more believes you're old enough to have more than 10 years at ANYTHING other than paperboy   You can't claim to be a career professional and post ass porn or your usual silly mental meltdowns. If you want to be taken as an adult you'd have to start behaving like one and not a 12 year old. 

 

Quote

You have no proof of efficiency whatsoever. Neither does the union or they would have used it already

Actually they did and the evidence is fairly overwhelming from the research so far. 

The real problem seemed to be that the areas that the gov't offices were in were very very dependent on having a steady supply of people to buy foods, shop, get services etc and they are now suffering in many major metros where gov't offices are prevelant. 

Canada Orders Federal Workers Back To Office To Bolster Real Estate - Better Dwelling

 Downtowns have been hollowed out as workers moved to smaller regions and took their spending with them. Now big cities and their leaders have been trying to get workers to go back into the office, for just enough days to prevent them from moving too far out of their pricey regions. 

There have been a lot of articles like that,  and the gov't has mentioned it from time to time.  

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I doubt anyone any more believes you're old enough to have more than 10 years at ANYTHING other than paperboy   You can't claim to be a career professional and post ass porn or your usual silly mental meltdowns. If you want to be taken as an adult you'd have to start behaving like one and not a 12 year old. 

 

Actually they did and the evidence is fairly overwhelming from the research so far. 

The real problem seemed to be that the areas that the gov't offices were in were very very dependent on having a steady supply of people to buy foods, shop, get services etc and they are now suffering in many major metros where gov't offices are prevelant. 

Canada Orders Federal Workers Back To Office To Bolster Real Estate - Better Dwelling

 Downtowns have been hollowed out as workers moved to smaller regions and took their spending with them. Now big cities and their leaders have been trying to get workers to go back into the office, for just enough days to prevent them from moving too far out of their pricey regions. 

There have been a lot of articles like that,  and the gov't has mentioned it from time to time.  

Well, there ya are. Your typical A hole self.

I could not care less what you think...as most intelligent people on this forum. We all know you as a lying loser and an !diot

 

Bullshit. there is no evidence or proof. If you are so sure...where is it??  Prove it...just another lie as you are so typically spouting LOL

Opinion pieces are a dime a dozen. Mean nothing other than one persons opinion.

"A whopping 90% of companies plan to implement return-to-office policies by the end of 2024, according to an Aug. report from Resume Builder, which surveyed 1,000 company leaders. Nearly 30% say their company will threaten to fire employees who don’t comply with in-office requirements. "      https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/11/90percent-of-companies-say-theyll-return-to-the-office-by-the-end-of-2024.html

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Well, there ya are. Your typical A hole self.

Sure, if calling you out on your buillshit is being an 'a hole' then absolutely    

 

Quote

I could not care less what you think..

You care deeply what i think and frequently will spend hours and pages of effort to try to get my attention and try to convince me of things. We're several miles past "don't care what i think".      You want to get treated like an adult act lik an adult. 

 

Quote

Bullshit. there is no evidence or proof. If you are so sure...where is it??  Prove it...just another lie as you are so typically spouting LOL

 

Surprising Working From Home Productivity Statistics (2024) (apollotechnical.com)

Study finds hybrid work benefits companies and employees | Stanford Report

Plenty of research out there.  Hybrid and full remote workers are not only as or more productive than their office counterparts, they also quit far less and therefore the lost productivity and cost of hiring and training new people goes way down.  You need the right tech to make it work for full remote but it does work. 

Statcan says 90 percent of workers who were working in an office and then went remote said they got AT LEAST as much work done

Research to Insights: Working from home in Canada (statcan.gc.ca)

Quote

"A whopping 90% of companies plan to implement return-to-office policies by the end of 2024, 

And?  What's  a 'return to work' policy? one day a week? 5 days a  week?

The funny thing is you posted this RIGHT AFTER saying opinion pieces are useless. 

To be clear, working remote is NOT for everybody. Some people hate it, some people have home situations that do not lend themselves to effective working (kids at home etc). 

But for a lot of people it's far more productive AND for many companies it's far more productive and efficient as well to allow staff to do that.  It should probably be left up to the department and managers whether they want to offer that to specific staff members.

Sorry kiddo. you're wrong. Remote working is very effective, frequently far MORE effective especially if done right. In North American generally and Canada specifically anyway. 

Not to mention no lost days due to snow, less pollution from the commute, less sick days, less congestion on the roads, and people can afford to live in less expensive communities. 

So it's literally better for everyone. 

[ExFlyer]

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure, if calling.....

So it's literally better for everyone. 

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah b;a LOL

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah b;a LOL

LOL holy shit kid, that was a little early for the meltdown to start wasn't it?    

Sorry it's unhinged you but the research is starting to firm up pretty good.  It's not super simple nor universal but by and large those who prefer to work at home are more productive than those who don't and productivity is higher. 

Costs are also lower for the employer AND the worker,  and i think that should be looked at an a  fair "at home discount' should be given, say a couple hundred a month less that the employee doesn't get.  But that is a before tax benefit and acutally a higher benefit to the employer who won't pay payroll taxes on that.  So it can still work out to be very much in everyone's favour. 

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL holy .....s favour. 

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah blah LOL

Again

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah blah LOL

Again

ROFLMAO!!!   Hooo kaayy, well.... there you go   

[ExFlyer]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO!!!   Hooo kaayy, well.... there you go   

 

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO!!!   Hooo kaayy, well.... there you go   

 

There ya go...again LOL

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah blah LOL

Again

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 

There ya go...again LOL

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah blah LOL

Again

LOL  wow you're so messed up you're double quoting me  

 

You sure are proving how much you don't care about what i think aren't you  

Stupidity and hypocrisy all in one post, how very efficient of you! You must be working from home  

I'm not going to have to go make popcorn am I?

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL  wow you're so messed up you're double quoting me  

 

You sure are proving how much you don't care about what i think aren't you  

Stupidity and hypocrisy all in one post, how very efficient of you! You must be working from home  

I'm not going to have to go make popcorn am I?

One thing for sure, I do not give 2 shits about what you think. I am surprised it took you this long to figure that out LOL

 

Cannot say any more to a fool so:

There ya go...again LOL

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah blah LOL

[CdnFox]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

One thing for sure, I do not give 2 shits about what you think. I am surprised it took you this long to figure that out LOL

Kid, if you didn't you woudn't bother to say it   The fact you even feel the need to convince me you don't proves you do.  

 And you regularly invest hours and hours into trying to convince me to think differently or a certain way soooo..... yeah.

 

 

Quote

Cannot say any more to a fool so:

You cannot say more to a fool, but you're going to say more to me. Uh Huh. LOL did you think that all the way through? I guess we know who the fool here is  don't we  

Quote

 

There ya go...again LOL

Blah....blah blah blah

Oh and Blah balh...blah blah LOL

 

Most intelligent thing you've said on this forum sadly  

[herbie]

Oh FFS Flyer do you actually expect anything other than instant deflection, whataboutism and ad hominem attacks from this guy?
He's obviously either a bot or a 400lb kid in his underwear in Mom's basement with no window to see anything real out of.

But he does make for a nice plaything once there's no more serious responses to post.