Open Questions to Leftists About Inflation and Kammunism

[WestCanMan]

Leftists: can you explain how price controls (Kamala calls it ending price-gauging, but I think she means price-gouging) actually cause food prices to go up?

I don't want to lecture you guys, you always like to pretend to know everything, so do you think price-fixing will work, and if not, why?

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Leftists: can you explain how price controls (Kamala calls it ending price-gauging, but I think she means price-gouging) actually cause food prices to go up?

I don't want to lecture you guys, you always like to pretend to know everything, so do you think price-fixing will work, and if not, why?

 

as a secondary question I'd like to know whether they feel that giving everybody a $25,000 down payment so they can buy a home will in any way shape or form affect home buying trends or drive up the price of housing as soon as the market realizes people can afford more? And if this will create a smaller version of the housing bubble the democrats created last time when they went with subprime mortgage lending so that people could afford homes that they otherwise couldn't?  And wouldn't that lead to inflation as well, pumping billions of unearned dollars into the economy?

So many questions. 

Edited August 19, 2024 by CdnFox

[August1991]

Irrelevant question.

Harris will be the next President. And the Dems may control the federal House/Senate.

The US voting system in critical counties/states is now like our Canadian census system.

The Dems have made of critical counties, Illinois: Cook County.

 

Edited August 19, 2024 by August1991

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Leftists: can you explain how price controls (Kamala calls it ending price-gauging, but I think she means price-gouging) actually cause food prices to go up?

I don't want to lecture you guys, you always like to pretend to know everything, so do you think price-fixing will work, and if not, why?

wage & price controls is always the desperate measure  that governments invoke in an inflation crisis

this is what happened in Canada back in 1979

first Pierre Trudeau invoked wage & price controls

Canadians at the time rightly recognized that it was lunacy

so suddenly the Liberals lost the election and Joe Clark was Prime Minister

then six months later the Conservatives flip flopped and invoked wage & price controls themselves

at which point Joe Clark got fired and the Liberals were back in office

although PET had dropped the wage & price controls policy in his comeback

the only way to constrain inflation of the money supply is to remove money from the economy

the central bank raises its interest rate,

which is paying all the banks to remove money from the street and park it at the central bank

hence how we ended up with 20% interest rates in 1981

but that incited the worst recession since the Great Depression

so the politicians now could never run on that

since the public wouldn't tolerate that kind of recession in this day & age

the way things are now, 20% interest rates would incite civil unrest, you'd have riots in the streets

the debt is too out of control now, public,  private, household, commercial, it's a giant debt bubble

the effects of raising interest rates to that level, with the dept now, would be catastrophic

another Global Financial Crisis

instead, what they do now is rejig the numbers in the CPI

they remove energy, food & shelter from the equation, because that's where the inflation is

then they can claim that the inflation rate is vastly lower than it actually ; "3%"

so they then only raise the interest rate to 5% instead of 20%

thing is tho, the inflation is still there, and people are seeing it in the prices of gas, food & housing

but the government can claim that they've got inflation under control

so they can then lower the rates again, since that's the only way they can keep propping up the debt

now Harris is indeed America's Justin Trudeau, the Democrats & Liberals are clones of each other

but in fairness, it's not like the Republicans have a solution to the problem

either you let inflation burn, or you freeze in higher interest rates

there's no pain free solution out of this inflationary debt trap which has been decades in the making

tho wage & price controls is one of those loonie ideas which politicians invoke to get elected

but then once in office would not likely follow through on

because it would actually be financially dangerous, a threat to the Establishment rule

because that sort command economy lunacy could pop the debt bubble,  inciting deflation

wages & prices falling is much more dangerous than wages & prices rising

you can control the rising,

but once it starts going in the opposite direction, there is no mechanism of control

so it could become a deflationary spiral which they could not stop

which is how you get to a depression

and since it is a global debt bubble, 4 to 1 debt to productivity ratio, it would a global deflation

which is how get to a Great Depression

and the only way out of that was World War Two

which they could get away with since they didn't have hydrogen bombs

how you would fight your way out of a Great Depression now is not clear

one does wonder how vacuous politicians like Harris or Justin Trudeau react to advice

do they take it seriously ? Or are they so oblivious that they just ignore it ?

it's like with Ronald Reagan and Pierre Trudeau, they were aware of the dangers

they were worried, they were worried about financial catastrophe and World War III

but electing Harris to be POTUS is like electing Justin Trudeau to be POTUS

so I can see how things could spiral out of control, with an empty vessel like that running the world

because if the White House actually tried to run a command economy, with wage & price controls

that would cause chaos right out of the gate, kicking off with a stock market panic

although if Harris really is going to pander to the lunatic Marxist wing of the Democrat party

then a stock market panic is baked into that cake

tho I expect she's just a corporatist shill like Obama

so like Obama, she will just do whatever Wall Street tells her to do

the Democrats are taking a page out of the Justin Trudeau playbook already

where they try to blame inflation on the private sector as "price gouging"

but only as political theatre,

since imposing some sort of substantive penalties would quickly blow up in their faces

the Democrats and the Liberals are literally identical now

exact same talking points, exact same narrative, exact same policies

the only difference is that America has a Congress which can stop the President

whereas the Canadian Prime Minister is effectively a dictator 

Edited August 19, 2024 by Dougie93

[August1991]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

wage & price controls is always the desperate measure  that governments invoke in an inflation crisis

....

Nixon imposed Wage & Price Controls in 1971 - then won re-election in 1972

Our own Trudeau Snr also did - winning with the Lewis "Corporate Wefare Bums".

Edited August 19, 2024 by August1991

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Nixon successfully imposed Wage & Price Controls. Our own Trudeau Snr also did.

Nixon only imposed it for 90 days

and it wasn't successful, since inflation continued to burn out of control all the way double digits

never mind that Nixon would be the worst model to follow

since he is the one who set us on this path of money printing and trillions of dollars of debt

Edited August 19, 2024 by Dougie93

[Nationalist]

So...aside from @August1991, none of the Libbies wanna touch this. What a surprise. 

[August1991]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Nixon only imposed it for 90 days

and it wasn't successful, since inflation continued to burn out of control all the way double digits

Define "successful". (Nixon was re-elected in 1972.)

Lewis was very successful with the "Corporate Welfare Bums" line

[Dougie93]

25 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Define "successful". (Nixon was re-elected in 1972.)

oh indeed, Tricky Dick had a plan to win the election

but it backfired on everybody in the world when inflation became a crisis just a few years after

Nixon's policies led straight to 20% interest rates

which again, with the debt load we are carrying now, would be catastrophic

again, that would incite a deflationary spiral in the current global financial crisis environment which Nixon built

Edited August 19, 2024 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Lewis was very successful with the "Corporate Welfare Bums" line

well that is actually true

exponentially more so now than in the 1970's

the entire economy is basically corporate welfare now

companies don't even concern themselves with actual profits anymore

all that matters is their vastly inflated stock prices

and that is all reliant on the central banks to prop up

but that is why the government cannot restrict inflation with command economy price & wage controls

because the bubble is entirely propped up by inflation

without inflation, it would whipsaw back in the other direction into deflation

and the central bankers at least know that they can't control that

so rather than trying to restrict inflation, they are letting it burn

again, they just rejig the numbers, essentially ignoring the inflation, only pretending that they are constraining it

as a result, what we actually have now is stagflation

where they raise the interest rates just enough to cause a recession

but not enough to control the prices of energy, food & shelter

it's the same stagflation from the 1970s

but the debt to GDP ratio in the 1970's was 25%

as opposed to now, where it is 125%

so in fact, the economy is entirely based on inflation, it's an exponentially huge bubble of inflation

so they can't actually restrict inflation, without bringing the whole house of cards down

mind you, I'm not suggesting that the Republicans / Conservatives have some alternate solution

Trumps says that he's going to "go to war against inflation"

Poilievre says that he's going to "return us to sound money"

but that would require allowing the bubble to burst, allowing the markets to discover the real prices

but again, they're not really going to do that

that would be a global crisis if America did that

everything would start deflating at once, taking Europe, Asia & China down too

you'd have riots in the streets at home, with theatre wars breaking out overseas,  on steroids

what we see now is just the tip of the iceberg in that paradigm

Edited August 19, 2024 by Dougie93

[Deluge]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

Irrelevant question.

Harris will be the next President. And the Dems may control the federal House/Senate.

The US voting system in critical counties/states is now like our Canadian census system.

The Dems have made of critical counties, Illinois: Cook County.

 

Your opinion is what's irrelevant. 

These are all good questions for the closet marxists of this country, and that means at least 90% of the democrat party, if not all of it. 

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Nixon imposed Wage & Price Controls in 1971 - then won re-election in 1972

Our own Trudeau Snr also did - winning with the Lewis "Corporate Wefare Bums".

Yes, Nixon did do that, but when it comes from a democrat, there's always the threat of permanency - almost like a first step toward pushing the Constitution aside for a more Marxist approach. 

No, Kamela Menace needs to be defanged and put out to pasture. 

[Dougie93]

wage & price controls for 90 days is obviously just a political stunt

you're not going to change anything significantly in a single quarter

but the main flaw with wage & price controls where we are now

is that prices are way up, while wages are not

so to lock things where they are now, would be punishing the workers not rewarding them

the prices are not going down, so wages need to rise for there to be a benefit for employees

[WestCanMan]

OK lefties, here's how Kamala's price-fixing backfires:

When you tell people: "You have to sell your 'whatevers' for $4.00 each", and suppliers can't make them for less than $5.00, they say: "I'm not gonna do all this work just to pay people $1 to buy my whatevers", and they stop making them.

Invariably, as the supply of "whatevers" diminishes, the cost of them is driven up by the law of 'supply and demand' (1. look that up, 2. it's not racist)

Kamala can tell people whatever she wants, even with the power of executive order, but she's just trying to reinvent the round peg for the square hole. At the end of the day, if there are only 2M pounds of bacon, and 50M people want a pound of bacon, the bacon will either:

1. be sold to the highest bidders at way more than $5 each or
2. there will be a bacon line and only the first 1.95M people will get bacon (Kamala's friends are guaranteed to get bacon), everyone else will be S-O-L. 

There's no such thing as 'bacon lines' though, Kamala will have bread lineups if she's left to her own devices. It will just be another case of Kamala and Walz having to learn from their costly mistakes. 

Edited August 19, 2024 by WestCanMan

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

So...aside from @August1991, none of the Libbies wanna touch this. What a surprise. 

Seriously, would YOU want to look like you were on that guy's side?

[Michael Hardner]

https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2024/03/26/high-food-prices-consolidation/

 

Some top level stats:

"we found that from 2020 to 2024, the cost to feed a family of four grew 2.5 more than the rate of inflation. 

 

Meanwhile, corporate profits rose five times faster than inflation from 2020 to 2022 — some to record highs. What’s more, a recent report from the Biden administration shows how big companies benefited from worsening the supply chain problems that raised prices during the pandemic. 

 

This trend has been enabled by lax antitrust enforcement that has let corporate giants get bigger."

The Populist movement has straddled the line between being against "corporate greed" (that term was actually SPOKEN at a speech at the RNC this year) and promotion of free enterprise, reduction in bureaucracy etc.

The devil is in the details.

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't want to lecture you guys, you always like to pretend to know everything, so do you think price-fixing will work, and if not, why?

It'll never work because right wing conservatives won't stand for it.

The only price they support fixing for their betters are wages. That's why they insist on citing lazy unproductive Canadian workers as being the bane of corporate fortunes.

[impartialobserver]

"price gouging" is nothing but inflammatory propaganda. This concept involves the suppliers colluding to charge a price far above the market equilibrium price (very hard to prove) and the consumers have few, if any, options (again , hard to prove). 

hypothetically, for any price fixing scheme to work.. you have an overabundance of whatever... supply exceeds demand.  But that is not the case and so its a waste of time to ponders its merits. 

Edited August 19, 2024 by impartialobserver

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2024/03/26/high-food-prices-consolidation/

 

Some top level stats:

"we found that from 2020 to 2024, the cost to feed a family of four grew 2.5 more than the rate of inflation. 

 

Meanwhile, corporate profits rose five times faster than inflation from 2020 to 2022 — some to record highs. What’s more, a recent report from the Biden administration shows how big companies benefited from worsening the supply chain problems that raised prices during the pandemic. 

 

This trend has been enabled by lax antitrust enforcement that has let corporate giants get bigger."

The Populist movement has straddled the line between being against "corporate greed" (that term was actually SPOKEN at a speech at the RNC this year) and promotion of free enterprise, reduction in bureaucracy etc.

The devil is in the details.

So here's the kind of lie the left loves to spin. 

Mention that food inflation went up.  Then mention corporate profit went up.  And in doing so suggest that somehow one is connected to the other directly without any data or logic. 

The reader is SUPPOSED to gasp and say "AHA !! PROOF THEY"RE FLEECING US!!!"

Inflation does not directly relate to the cost of food production, or shipping or importing. 

But in typical leftist fashion (here's another example for you mike) you're promoting the idea that if someone made money, the ONLY POSSILBE EXPLANATION is that big corporate is stealing from the people. 

Did costs of production go up? Did population go up? Did people eat at home more during the pandemic and buy more groceries? Are their shortages? were there labour issues during the pandemic? Etc etc?

Nope - couldn't be ANY of that - MUST be corporate greed. Only possible answer 

Tell us all about how you're a dispassionate conservative again mike 

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

Nope - couldn't be ANY of that - MUST be corporate greed. Only possible answer 

 

I'm just explaining the political background here. And again, You have to make it about me. For some reason. You should think about other people. 

And yes, it's possible for costs to go up and prices to go up inordinately from those inputs. But you knew that I think. You just decided not to point it out I guess.

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm just explaining the political background here.

No you're not. That wasn't political background at all. 

I know i know - you love to make your posts in such a way that you can try to deny what you clearly meant later but... sorry.  You were making a very obvious statement that the reason profits went up is corporate greed. 

Quote

And again, You have to make it about me. 

Riiiiighhhttt.... you make a dishonest post and if it's pointed out YOU"RE the victim!!!   and as always, your bad behavior is somehow my fault. 

Quote

And yes, it's possible for costs to go up and prices to go up inordinately from those inputs. But you knew that I think. You just decided not to point it out I guess.

Are you sniffing glue? I was the one who DID point it out.  You were the one who pretended they didn't exist and that it's just all corporate greed. 

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

"price gouging" is nothing but inflammatory propaganda. 

Shrinkflation seems to fit the bill.

$10 says oil companies are working on it.

Edited August 19, 2024 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Shrinkflation seems to fit the bill.

$10 says oil companies are working on it.

Sorry, that was last week. You'll need 11.50 to say that THIS week 

[Matthew]

I think price controls can nice for certain major essential items when they factor in a fair about of profit for suppliers in a market which is able to fluctuate with the price of inputs.

Good recent example is insulin. Last year a single vial was typically $300-400 even though that vial only costs a few dollars to produce. A bipartisan bill put a $35 price cap and doing so has had no impact on the availability of insulin.

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, Matthew said:

I think price controls can nice for certain major essential items when they factor in a fair about of profit for suppliers in a market which is able to fluctuate with the price of inputs.

 

Where has that ever worked though? The government simply isn't capable of figuring out what a fair market value is. They suck at it, also governments suck at it, they will continue to suck at it. Even better, if input variables require an increase in price then the government will wear it. They know that this really isn't a case of gouging and if they say they are going to fix it and prices go up then they get clobbered.  

Instead of being able to vaugely blame the stores, the stores will say 'don't blame us, that's what the gov't told us to charge"

So what they do is they set a maximum price and then tell industry they have to produce at that rate and that it's their problem to figure it out. And that is always a disaster.

You can do things like trudeau did with the groceries signing an agreement essentially to 'be nice' and 'do what they can',  and you can do consumer protection acts like they did with the airlines to guarantee refunds if the airline doesn't deliver the flight,  but that's about it and frankly the grocery store thing turned out to make no difference. 

In the end you can't fight inflation by legislating it away.  You have to address the issues causing it, in this case excessive gov't spending. Which brings us to the whole 25,000 dollar housing thing.