Who won the debate?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

On the subject of lies:

AP: False claims made during the debate

That fact checking needs some serious fact checking. The Pelosi segment is especially Grievous.

Bias or being dishonest is whether or not they say that it needs "context". They don't want to say if something is true or false they want to say "if you look at it from THIS angle it's sort of untrue even tho it's actually true".  And they do that a few times. It's a pretty partisan 'fact check'. 

But it doesn't really matter. Everyone knows they both lie.  People will look to trump if they want to see the borders closed and stronger foreign policy and they'll go with biden if they prefer more open borders and federal open abortion rights

 

[Matthew]

31 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

stronger foreign policy

Ah more weakening the world largest military alliance that we lead, undermining our alliances, and pandering to dictators who act against us? Trump debasing himself before Putin when he visited was probably the biggest diplomatic embarrassment I've witnessed.

Edited Friday at 08:52 PM by Matthew

[-TSS-]

The thing is that if the Republicans dump Trump and put somebody else as a candidate Trump's supporters are not going to vote for that somebody else when as if Biden is persuaded to step down and somebody else becomes a candidate people who would have voted for Biden will vote for the new candidate. 

Biden's support is entirely about the other option being Trump. I doubt anybody supports Biden for his own sake.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

Ah more weakening the world largest military alliance that we lead, undermining our alliances, and pandering to dictators who act against us? Trump debasing himself before Putin when he visited was probably the biggest diplomatic embarrassment I've witnessed.

Nato got stronger under trump, not weaker. The dictators stayed in their corners and behaved themselves, and ran amok as soon as biden showed up, Trump did the only mid east peace deal in many decades and iran behaved. And putin didn't invade anyone while trump was around. 

LOL - i get why you feel the need to lie about it like that.  I mean biden's record abroad is so utterly horrible that you would naturally feel compelled to try to make trump's look worse just so biden didnt' look THAT bad. 

but while there are many negative things you can point to during trump's time the simple fact is his economy was good and his foreign policy was mostly effective.  Neither can be honestly said about biden. 

And that's the facts ya checker  

 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

Ah more weakening the world largest military alliance that we lead, undermining our alliances, and pandering to dictators who act against us? Trump debasing himself before Putin when he visited was probably the biggest diplomatic embarrassment I've witnessed.

Gee...did you miss the surrender to the Afghan terrorists?

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Gee...did you miss the surrender to the Afghan terrorists?

the invasion of ukraine? The attack on israel? The attacks on shipping by iranian proxies? the threats to taiwan, which produces a large hunk of US military chips? 

That's enough stuff for any 2 term president - biden's only been in 3.5 years. 

 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

the invasion of ukraine? The attack on israel? The attacks on shipping by iranian proxies? the threats to taiwan, which produces a large hunk of US military chips? 

That's enough stuff for any 2 term president - biden's only been in 3.5 years. 

 

At least we got this...

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

At least we got this...

 

Welp.... looks like i'll be drinking till that image is out of my head so i can sleep tonight.  Ya dink. 

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...it took them 30 minutes to recover and begin accusations of lies by Trump.

It’s a fact that Trump told huge lies, such as his claim that legal abortion includes giving birth to a live baby at 9 months and then murdering it in the delivery room 

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s a fact that Trump told huge lies, such as his claim that legal abortion includes giving birth to a live baby at 9 months and then murdering it in the delivery room 

They both told huge lies.  That's not relevant. 

Oh and that particular lie you mentioned? That was one of the few things that was actually a lot more true than  you think.  Abortions could be performed JUST before birth, and when that is done sometimes the baby actually survives the birth process and is delivered alive but badly injured.  

In such cases the doctors are allow to refuse care and allow the baby to die. This is the 'born alive' issue. Essentially 'since we technically started the abortion before birth we now don't have to keep the child alive".  Doctors spoke of doing what they could to make the child comfortable while they waited for death. 

And that's pretty god damned horrible.  

Most of everything else was a lie or a huge embellishment tho. 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

In such cases the doctors are allow to refuse care and allow the baby to die. This is the 'born alive' issue. Essentially 'since we technically started the abortion before birth we now don't have to keep the child alive".  Doctors spoke of doing what they could to make the child comfortable while they waited for death. 

I call Bullshit. Cite please. 

Edited Saturday at 06:10 AM by BeaverFever

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I call Bullshit. Cite please. 

Here ya go...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47066307

You're welcome.

[User]

5 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I call Bullshit. Cite please. 

When you had Ralph Northman and Kathy Tran back in 2019 saying garbage pushing The Repeal Act, that is where this comes from. They were pushing for late term abortions and they were the ones saying stupid crap:

The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

"When a Republican lawmaker asked during the hearing whether the bill would allow for an abortion to occur when a woman is in labor and about to give birth, Tran said yes."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/lawmaker-at-center-of-abortion-bill-firestorm-elected-as-part-of-democratic-wave-that-changed-richmond/2019/01/31/d4f76ecc-2565-11e9-90cd-dedb0c92dc17_story.html

The only "lie" here is if you believe they misspoke and thus are under some kind of obligation to correct them for them. Many folks on the right don't buy that they slipped up. 

 

[CdnFox]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I call Bullshit. Cite please. 

This is all over the web. 

If i do your lazy assed homework for you which would have taken you 1 second and prove you're just an uninformed dolt who should know far better than to think i'd say something if i didn't know i was right to begin with   what are you going to do to make it worth my time wiping your nose for you?

How about a sincere appology for ever doubting me and a statement that trump won the debate fair and square and biden sucked which i will be quoting you on repetitively between here and election day   

Honestly kid, "born alive" law and the debate around it are everywhere, it takes a quarter second to find it. But if you're willing to meet my terms i'll take you at your word and post a link that i'll find in probably half that time  

[Hodad]

7 hours ago, User said:

When you had Ralph Northman and Kathy Tran back in 2019 saying garbage pushing The Repeal Act, that is where this comes from. They were pushing for late term abortions and they were the ones saying stupid crap:

The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

"When a Republican lawmaker asked during the hearing whether the bill would allow for an abortion to occur when a woman is in labor and about to give birth, Tran said yes."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/lawmaker-at-center-of-abortion-bill-firestorm-elected-as-part-of-democratic-wave-that-changed-richmond/2019/01/31/d4f76ecc-2565-11e9-90cd-dedb0c92dc17_story.html

The only "lie" here is if you believe they misspoke and thus are under some kind of obligation to correct them for them. Many folks on the right don't buy that they slipped up. 

 

The lie is that you pretend that they were talking about healthy fetuses, when in fact they were talking about non-viable fetuses and the dignity of death rather than taking gruesome measures to preserve some semblance of life in a non-viable fetus or baby. 

It's really as ugly as lies come. You should be ashamed.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Hodad said:

The lie is that you pretend that they were talking about healthy fetuses, when in fact they were talking about non-viable fetuses

Nope.  Sorry. 

If a baby was prematurely born during the beginning of a 'very very late term" abortion and WOULD HAVE BEEN VIABLE they still let it die. 

Which is why the born alive bill was important - it required the doctors to do what they can to save the child. the child often could live.  

But of course dems have to be dishonest about the truth because the truth is they're monsters, but they can't out and out say that. 

[User]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

The lie is that you pretend that they were talking about healthy fetuses, when in fact they were talking about non-viable fetuses and the dignity of death rather than taking gruesome measures to preserve some semblance of life in a non-viable fetus or baby. 

It's really as ugly as lies come. You should be ashamed.

You: Dehumanize the unborn and have no care for 1 million killed a year

You have no room to talk to me about anything being "really ugly" or being ashamed. 

[BeaverFever]

On 6/29/2024 at 7:27 AM, User said:

When you had Ralph Northman and Kathy Tran back in 2019 saying garbage pushing The Repeal Act, that is where this comes from. They were pushing for late term abortions and they were the ones saying stupid crap:

The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

"When a Republican lawmaker asked during the hearing whether the bill would allow for an abortion to occur when a woman is in labor and about to give birth, Tran said yes."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/lawmaker-at-center-of-abortion-bill-firestorm-elected-as-part-of-democratic-wave-that-changed-richmond/2019/01/31/d4f76ecc-2565-11e9-90cd-dedb0c92dc17_story.html

The only "lie" here is if you believe they misspoke and thus are under some kind of obligation to correct them for them. Many folks on the right don't buy that they slipped up. 

 

@CdnFox

@Nationalist

 

These comments have already be clarified and can be verified by the simple facts that infanticide laws exist and have been prosecuted while no so-called abortion like the one described has ever been performed anywhere. 
 

Lets’s first recap the original claim that abortion means perfectly healthy full-term babies are killed after they are delivered which is not what is described in the link

 

The quote in the link refer to an extremely rare late term abortion where the fetus is no -viable (ie not healthy enough to survive) and/or the mothers life is at risk. AND the totally hypothetical circumstance where the woman goes into labour while the abortion is already underway. 
 

And Tran soon corrected herself about her quote where she answered yes instead of no to a completely hypothetical and unrealistic scenario posed by a Republican. 
 

its more Republican “gotcha” tactics. You can articulate something perfectly a thousand times but if a Republican can get a soundbite of you screwing up your answer just once or if they can lift it out of context they will try to make that the reality. 

[CdnFox]

17 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

@CdnFox

@Nationalist

 

These comments have already be clarified and can be verified by the simple facts that infanticide laws exist and have been prosecuted while no so-called abortion like the one described has ever been performed anywhere. 
 

Lets’s first recap the original claim that abortion means perfectly healthy full-term babies are killed after they are delivered which is not what is described in the link

 

The quote in the link refer to an extremely rare late term abortion where the fetus is no -viable (ie not healthy enough to survive) and/or the mothers life is at risk. AND the totally hypothetical circumstance where the woman goes into labour while the abortion is already underway. 
 

And Tran soon corrected herself about her quote where she answered yes instead of no to a completely hypothetical and unrealistic scenario posed by a Republican. 
 

its more Republican “gotcha” tactics. You can articulate something perfectly a thousand times but if a Republican can get a soundbite of you screwing up your answer just once or if they can lift it out of context they will try to make that the reality. 

Beaver -  this was gone over many many times.  

It was not the repeal act  

This is why the republicans introduced the "born alive' law. Allowing a baby to die is not considered 'infantcide' and they wanted it to be.  

If i take a baby and let it starve and perish by failing to provide the necessaries of life, then i've killed the baby but a technicality in us law does not consider it to be homicide during birth as long as you don't stab the thing. 

Every other country does 

I'm sorry but you're wrong.  Being annoyed that you're wrong will not change the fact you are wrong.  It has been WELL established in Canada for example, there is always from the moment of birth a duty to provide the necessaries of life. (yes that's the wording in our law. Necessaries. ) 

So they go to have an abortion - they trigger a premie birth and the baby is lying there wounded and hurt but alive and saveable and they let it die.  And that was legal. 

Abortion up to and after birth.  It's beyond monstrous.  You SHOULD be saying "That was one area the dems should have agreed with the republicans. 

[Nationalist]

33 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

@CdnFox

@Nationalist

 

These comments have already be clarified and can be verified by the simple facts that infanticide laws exist and have been prosecuted while no so-called abortion like the one described has ever been performed anywhere. 
 

Lets’s first recap the original claim that abortion means perfectly healthy full-term babies are killed after they are delivered which is not what is described in the link

 

The quote in the link refer to an extremely rare late term abortion where the fetus is no -viable (ie not healthy enough to survive) and/or the mothers life is at risk. AND the totally hypothetical circumstance where the woman goes into labour while the abortion is already underway. 
 

And Tran soon corrected herself about her quote where she answered yes instead of no to a completely hypothetical and unrealistic scenario posed by a Republican. 
 

its more Republican “gotcha” tactics. You can articulate something perfectly a thousand times but if a Republican can get a soundbite of you screwing up your answer just once or if they can lift it out of context they will try to make that the reality. 

You're full o' sh1t.

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Beaver -  this was gone over many many times.  

It was not the repeal act  

This is why the republicans introduced the "born alive' law. Allowing a baby to die is not considered 'infantcide' and they wanted it to be.  

If i take a baby and let it starve and perish by failing to provide the necessaries of life, then i've killed the baby but a technicality in us law does not consider it to be homicide during birth as long as you don't stab the thing. 

Every other country does 

I'm sorry but you're wrong.  Being annoyed that you're wrong will not change the fact you are wrong.  It has been WELL established in Canada for example, there is always from the moment of birth a duty to provide the necessaries of life. (yes that's the wording in our law. Necessaries. ) 

So they go to have an abortion - they trigger a premie birth and the baby is lying there wounded and hurt but alive and saveable and they let it die.  And that was legal. 

Abortion up to and after birth.  It's beyond monstrous.  You SHOULD be saying "That was one area the dems should have agreed with the republicans. 

But they willingly look the other way and allow this...for their "new normal".

They are monsters.

[WestCanMan]

On 6/28/2024 at 11:48 AM, Matthew said:

On the subject of lies:

AP: False claims made during the debate

The first one I looked at:

• THE FACTS: That’s false. The attack on the U.S. Capitol was the deadliest assault on the seat of American power in over 200 years. As thoroughly documented by video, photographs and people who were there, thousands of people descended on Capitol Hill in what became a brutal scene of hand-to-hand combat with police.

That's an obvious lie. In May 2020 DNC rioters threw molotovs and bottles and used all sorts of weapons at the WH. Over 50 secret service members had serious injuries. Leftard cultists like to pretend that one of those incidents was apocalyptic and one was cute, but they were both equally inexcusable.