American College of Pediatricians demands that people follow the science and stop gender affirmation in kids - states there are two sexes.

[CdnFox]

Boom. There it is, acknowledgment that Europe has got it right and that it is wrong to let kids go full tilt into gender affirmation practices including surgery or blockers. And that biological sex is a real thing.

The left in the US and Canada got this wrong. What they were doing was hurting children and it has to stop. Gender dysphoria is Not a license to start cutting people's penises off or destroying their possible reproductive future while they are still kids.

If somebody wants to transition in their twenties I don't think anyone has the right to say no. But they have to keep their hands off the children

[Black Dog]

The "The American College of Pediatricians" is not a real licensing body, scientific group or professional organization but an socially conservative astroturf group led by a glorified chiropractor lol.

[Michael Hardner]

32 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The "The American College of Pediatricians" is not a real licensing body, scientific group or professional organization but an socially conservative astroturf group led by a glorified chiropractor lol.

That's pretty crazy.

Not sealioning 😂🤣😂 but I promise to read any cite supporting this story with an open mind.

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The "The American College of Pediatricians" is not a real licensing body, scientific group or professional organization but an socially conservative astroturf group led by a glorified chiropractor lol.

They are all doctors and pediatricians. Not to mention she is dead right that Europe almost to a country has come out saying the same thing. It is the official stance of France and England and a number of other countries

As usual, when you can't refute the argument you attack the messenger.

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's pretty crazy.

Not sealioning 😂🤣😂 but I promise to read any cite supporting this story with an open mind.

"I"ll read anything that discredits people who have a different opinion than i do!! Please - confirm my bias!" 

LOL  if only you'd show that kind of enthusiasm with regards to everything else. 

[Michael Hardner]

No I actually don't have a strong opinion on this. Seriously, I want to get some material because it's contentious in the best possible way.

To add... The Europeans are plodding through this topic without the benefit of a culture War to make everyone so very angry.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No I actually don't have a strong opinion on this. Seriously, I want to get some material because it's contentious in the best possible way.

To add... The Europeans are plodding through this topic without the benefit of a culture War to make everyone so very angry.

the culture war is actually still pretty strong in Europe, which is why we're seeing the issues now with their elections. But there are a few topics which haven't become politicized there the way they have in North America so they get addressed a little more evenly.

North America is one of the last surviving area that still thinks gender affirmation treatment in youth is a good idea. I did post an article on this a ways back when france I think was one of the last ones to switch over.

There are a few Canadian pediatric gender experts who have also said we are being way too quick with moving towards gender affirmation treatment in youth

[Black Dog]

58 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They are all doctors and pediatricians.

Funny how you people pick and choose when such credentials matter. It's an organization of religious nuts who happen to have medical degrees.

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Not to mention she is dead right that Europe almost to a country has come out saying the same thing. It is the official stance of France and England and a number of other countries

 

Yes other countries have also made ideologically driven decisions on this, big whoop. 

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As usual, when you can't refute the argument you attack the messenger.

The fact they aren't a credible organization is kinda relevant when you're trying to pass them off as such.

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Funny how you people pick and choose when such credentials matter. It's an organization of religious nuts who happen to have medical degrees.

LOL  pot meet kettle   can you point to one example where I said credentials don't matter?

Their credentials is they are all doctors and pediatricians. You're attempting to discredit that by pretending that there's some sort of fanatic organization but that's just simply not true. And as I stated they are quite correct that all of the major European countries have moved to this dance as well. And Canadian doctors have also spoken out along these lines saying that we are being far too quick with gender affirmation treatment. I've posted pretty much all of that on here before.

So you can't refute their claims, so you try and pretend that there's some sort of religious nut group. Pretty cheesy

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Yes other countries have also made ideologically driven decisions on this, big whoop.

You mean like all of Europe. Countries like France and Britain, well known for their hard right stance on medical treatment  They have very sound medical reasons for it. And they are not alone.

Kid, you are the only ideologue  here. Everybody else is following the science. 

17 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The fact they aren't a credible organization is kinda relevant

But they are incredible organization. The only reason you are pretending that they are not is because you don't like what they say.

Which kind of puts your credibility in the toilet. Sorry big guy, swing and a miss

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, Black Dog said:

The "The American College of Pediatricians" is not a real licensing body, scientific group or professional organization but an socially conservative astroturf group led by a glorified chiropractor lol.

Doing a quick google search, the parts I underlined above are true.  The parts in bold are false claims on your part, which you probably just took from twitter.

I have no idea if it's an astroturf group or not.

It's a professional association of socially conservative pediatricians.  It has 700 active members, which isn't a ton.  The American Academy of Pediatrics has 67k members. 

It's current President is a pediatric endocrinologist, which is a medical doctor specializing in endocrine glands, which are the glands that produce our hormones.

[Aristides]

Britain and all the Scandinavian countries have banned puberty blockers for children and most European countries ban surgery for anyone under 16. 

[Legato]

6 hours ago, Black Dog said:

The "The American College of Pediatricians" is not a real licensing body, scientific group or professional organization but an socially conservative astroturf group led by a glorified chiropractor lol.

So are you against protecting children?

[blackbird]

Professionals that have harmed children with their sex selection medications and surgeries should be held accountable in courts just like the Nuremburg Trials for the Nazis and the Holocaust.  Maybe some day they will be.  I would hate to be in their shoes on judgment day.

[Michael Hardner]

To post on this topic seriously you have to understand that the medical profession is trying to do what's best for its patients here. 

The last two posts seem to be outliers.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

To post on this topic seriously you have to understand that the medical profession is trying to do what's best for its patients here. 

The numbers don't lie. There is a high suicidal tendency in people even after their gender is affirmed or some form of transformation is done on their gender.

I used to be on an asexual forum, and saw thousands of people totally confused about their gender well into adulthood.

There is nothing normal about this, and just because there is shaming, doesn't mean there will be social acceptance.

This is the reality this group faces.

I saw a biological male looking like Macho Man Randy Savage, with shaved legs and a mini skirt and heels walking past me.

I am used to this, having been to places like Thailand and the Philippines where ladyboys sometimes look even better than the women. 

But many around me were laughing. There's the internet, the perceived standard,  and the reality.

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

The numbers don't lie. There is a high suicidal tendency in people even after their gender is affirmed or some form of transformation is done on their gender.

I used to be on an asexual forum, and saw thousands of people totally confused about their gender well into adulthood.

There is nothing normal about this, and just because there is shaming, doesn't mean there will be social acceptance.

This is the reality this group faces.

I saw a biological male looking like Macho Man Randy Savage, with shaved legs and a mini skirt and heels walking past me.

I am used to this, having been to places like Thailand and the Philippines where ladyboys sometimes look even better than the women. 

But many around me were laughing. There's the internet, the perceived standard,  and the reality.

Well I do appreciate your perspective, you needn't have replied to me or quoted my post because it has nothing to do with mine. 

But while we're on the topic of your perspective, may I ask you a personal question? Are you more attracted to ladyboys perhaps due to your sexual anomaly?

[BeaverFever]

I don’t have a dog in the gender identity fight but I’ll point out that ACPeds is not the professional body of paediatricians, it is a conservative anti-LGBTQ group founded in 2002, The group’s name is meant to give it the appearance of impartiality when in fact it is not. The SPLC has designated as a “hate group”. 

[Zeitgeist]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Boom. There it is, acknowledgment that Europe has got it right and that it is wrong to let kids go full tilt into gender affirmation practices including surgery or blockers. And that biological sex is a real thing.

The left in the US and Canada got this wrong. What they were doing was hurting children and it has to stop. Gender dysphoria is Not a license to start cutting people's penises off or destroying their possible reproductive future while they are still kids.

If somebody wants to transition in their twenties I don't think anyone has the right to say no. But they have to keep their hands off the children

Should such procedures continue to be fully funded by taxpayers?

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

I don’t have a dog in the gender identity fight but I’ll point out that ACPeds is not the professional body of paediatricians, it is a conservative anti-LGBTQ group founded in 2002, The group’s name is meant to give it the appearance of impartiality when in fact it is not. The SPLC has designated as a “hate group”. 

Certainly, if we start seeing fake medical professional groups popping up, that's a concern. But let's be clear, legitimate medical societies in Europe are asking questions about these procedures and looking at it carefully. Those same groups advocate for other aspects of gender identity validation as well. 

So pretty Clearly there are professionals out there who are doing some objective investigation.

[Black Dog]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL  pot meet kettle   can you point to one example where I said credentials don't matter?

Their credentials is they are all doctors and pediatricians. You're attempting to discredit that by pretending that there's some sort of fanatic organization but that's just simply not true. And as I stated they are quite correct that all of the major European countries have moved to this dance as well. And Canadian doctors have also spoken out along these lines saying that we are being far too quick with gender affirmation treatment. I've posted pretty much all of that on here before.

So you can't refute their claims, so you try and pretend that there's some sort of religious nut group. Pretty cheesy

I don't have to pretend: it's exactly what they are. 

And again, dipshit, if you don't want people questioning the credibility of this group, stop appealling to their authority.

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You mean like all of Europe. Countries like France and Britain, well known for their hard right stance on medical treatment  They have very sound medical reasons for it. And they are not alone.

Yes, stupid, there's been a concentrated push by the right in this issue internationally. Are you blind, stupid or both? Regardless, you have to be stupid or disingenuous to pretend that this bogus groups statement on gender aligns with any of those country's revised approaches. The ACP's goes much further, calling for a total ban on any form of gender affirming care for young people, including social affirmation, which is not a medical intervention:

“It is time that these American medical institutions follow the science and the lead of our European professional colleagues and cease to promote protocols that harm children, including the promotion of social affirmation, puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgeries for children and adolescents who experience distress over their biological sex.”

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Kid, you are the only ideologue  here. Everybody else is following the science. 

But they are incredible organization. The only reason you are pretending that they are not is because you don't like what they say.

Which kind of puts your credibility in the toilet. Sorry big guy, swing and a miss

LOL they're a lunatic fringe group that exists because some whackos were rabidly opposed to same sex couples adopting kids. As Moonlight points out they have 700 members nationwide.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

I don't have to pretend: it's exactly what they are. 

Even if the voices in your head tell you they are, that doesnt' mean they are 

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And again, dipshit, if you don't want people questioning the credibility of this group, stop appealling to their authority.

You mean by pointing out that they are actual doctors?

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Yes, stupid, there's been a concentrated push by the right in this issue internationally. 

Well if by "right" you mean medical professionals and scientists then sure. 

 

Quote

Regardless, you have to be stupid or disingenuous to pretend that this bogus groups statement on gender aligns with any of those country's revised approaches.

The statement here is 100 percent in alignment with ALL of the other countries revised approaches. 

You can't just lie your way out of an 'inconvenient truth'   This isn't a 'right wing push'. The science says you're wrong, and countries all over the world are recognizing that. And no - their doctors and experts didn't suddenly magically become 'right wing' overnight. 

And at the end of the day here's another group of actual medical professionals who is saying it's wrong. 

So.  How's it feel to be a science denier?    I have the same conversations with people who claim the world is flat or that there is no such thing as climate change

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Even if the voices in your head tell you they are, that doesnt' mean they are 

They are, you're in denial.

Quote

You mean by pointing out that they are actual doctors?

Again, I love how you pick and choose when to trust someone in a lab coat.

Quote

Well if by "right" you mean medical professionals and scientists then sure. 

Hardly, dipshit. These freaks are not following the science here.

Quote

The statement here is 100 percent in alignment with ALL of the other countries revised approaches. 

Horseshit, name one other country that has completely banned all medical interventions as well as non-medical ones like social transition.

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You can't just lie your way out of an 'inconvenient truth' This isn't a 'right wing push'. The science says you're wrong, and countries all over the world are recognizing that. And no - their doctors and experts didn't suddenly magically become 'right wing' overnight. 

Again, you're off your rocker if you think this group of lunatics who couldn't fill a small town hockey rink are representative of the international scientific consensus on this issue. 

Quote

And at the end of the day here's another group of actual medical professionals who is saying it's wrong. 

Which is wholly out of step with the scientific consensus, which you'd know if you weren't an stupid dilettante. 

Quote

So.  How's it feel to be a science denier?  I have the same conversations with people who claim the world is flat or that there is no such thing as climate change

There's no way you have conversations with people.

Edited June 12, 2024 by Black Dog

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

 

Which is wholly out of step with the scientific consensus, which you'd know if you weren't an stupid dilettante. 

 

Indeed.  Any pediatric body who is looking at this otherwise affirms gender identity and so their actions are often selectively reported to make it appear that they disagree with assisting transgender youth with leading a happy life.

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

They are, you're in denial.

Yes i denied the voices in your head are accurate sources of information. LOL  well done 

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Again, I love how you pick and choose when to trust someone in a lab coat.

When have i not? I asked before and you coudln't come up with anything. 

Quote

Hardly, dipshit. These freaks are not following the science here.

a crap ton of scientists say they are

 

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Horseshit, name one other country that has completely banned all medical interventions as well as non-medical ones like social transition.

As i said, most of the major european ones including France and Britain have changed their models to be in line with what these people's statement was.  Of course nobody mentioned social transitioning, you brought that up becuase you know you're wrong and wanted to try to add to the argument  

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Again, you're off your rocker if you think this group of lunatics who couldn't fill a small town hockey rink are representative of the international scientific consensus on this issue. 

The international community says they are. They're calling for the same things,

Quote

Which is wholly out of step with the scientific consensus, which you'd know if you weren't an stupid dilettante. 

IT's actually entirely in step with it.  

Most medical professionals around the world are now of the opinion that providing gender transitioning medical care to youth is a very serious mistake in most cases, with a few rare possible exceptions. That is the prevailing opinion

Quote

There's no way you have conversations with people.

It's true it's hard to think of you as a person sometimes, but I like to try and give you the benefit of the doubt  

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Yes i denied the voices in your head are accurate sources of information. LOL  well done 

I guarantee you've never heard of this org before it got astroturfed into Postemedia's papers and have done absolutely no research into them. You're coming from a place of utter ignorance, as usual.

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When have i not? I asked before and you coudln't come up with anything. 

Eh I'm assuming you're an antivax nutjob like all the others, I don't actually care to explore it.

Quote

As i said, most of the major european ones including France and Britain have changed their models to be in line with what these people's statement was.  

Nope. As I pointed out, this nutjob group wants a total ban on all forms of gender affirming care. No European country is doing that.

Quote

Of course nobody mentioned social transitioning, you brought that up becuase you know you're wrong and wanted to try to add to the argument

LMAO you stupid c*nt:

Quote

“It is time that these American medical institutions follow the science and the lead of our European professional colleagues and cease to promote protocols that harm children, including the promotion of social affirmation, puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgeries for children and adolescents who experience distress over their biological sex.”

Quote

 

IT's actually entirely in step with it.  

Most medical professionals around the world are now of the opinion that providing gender transitioning medical care to youth is a very serious mistake in most cases, with a few rare possible exceptions. That is the prevailing opinion

 

Nope. The prevailing opinion is that more research needs to be done. Most European countries are continuing to offer all the services that you and these whackos want taken off the table completely. You've offered no evidence to the contrary. 

Quote

It's true it's hard to think of you as a person sometimes, but I like to try and give you the benefit of the doubt

 

Well, thanks, I can't say I return the favour and hope you get hit by a bus.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

I guarantee you've never heard of this org before it got astroturfed into Postemedia's papers and have done absolutely no research into them. You're coming from a place of utter ignorance, as usual.

Eh I'm assuming you're an antivax nutjob like all the others, I don't actually care to explore it.

Nope. As I pointed out, this nutjob group wants a total ban on all forms of gender affirming care. No European country is doing that.

LMAO you stupid c*nt:

Nope. The prevailing opinion is that more research needs to be done. Most European countries are continuing to offer all the services that you and these whackos want taken off the table completely. You've offered no evidence to the contrary. 

Well, thanks, I can't say I return the favour and hope you get hit by a bus.

So just to recap - YOU"VE never heard of the group so therefore you can guarantee i haven't, but you can't explain why that would matter. They're still doctors and this is still their opinions

You assume anyone who disagrees with you is an 'anti vax nut job' which has nothing to do with this thread, and therefore i don't care about people's credentials because somehow that's the same thing?

You lied about what their statement is to try to make it easier to argue and you still can't come up with an argument?

You can't provide any evidence of what you say but europe and experts in canada and some in the states disagree with you, but you insist you're right, 

And you're so afraid of me that you wish i was dead.     LOLOL!

 

Well - thanks for that big guy    It's always nice to get confirmation that someone actually is a stupid as they seem to be