Poilievre vs Trudeau/Jagmeet -Problem

[August1991]

Are you part of the solution? Or part of the problem?

[Nefarious Banana]

Trudeau/Singh are Canada's problem . . . . the most appalling federal government in Canada's history.

[Guest]

Poilievre is less of a problem, from my vantage point.

I'd rather hire a dog for 4 more years, than vote for Trudeau. Or a group of angry chimpanzees.

[PIK]

With those 2 it's has nothing to do with running the country but changing it. Just building some leftwing utopia. And destroying one of the greatest countries ever. Never thought I would see the day.

[ExFlyer]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Poilievre is less of a problem, from my vantage point.

I'd rather hire a dog for 4 more years, than vote for Trudeau. Or a group of angry chimpanzees.

How can PP be a problem?

He has no authority, no power and no (or few) plans. He is just b;owing smoke.

So far he is ineffectual, inert and powerless and can say and do anything without consequence.

What he may be or do in the future has yet to be seen or felt.

As for trudeau and jagmeet, the best thing in my mind is that they do not even get voted in their own seats. Wiped out completely

[Boges]

19 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

How can PP be a problem?

He has no authority, no power and no (or few) plans. He is just b;owing smoke.

So far he is ineffectual, inert and powerless and can say and do anything without consequence.

What he may be or do in the future has yet to be seen or felt.

As for trudeau and jagmeet, the best thing in my mind is that they do not even get voted in their own seats. Wiped out completely

This is common in Canadian politics. 

In Ontario the Ontario Liberals led with impunity through scandals for 15 years. 

Finally Dofo came around and decimated them. You'd think Dofo wouldn't be a strong capable leader, but I don't mind him. The same thing could happen to PP.

Though, as this election nears, the fearmongering will escalate. And if PP doesn't create a plausible vision of how he sees Canada, we may get another Liberal mandate. There are things that the Liberals have done that I personally, don't hate. So will he roll everything back? I want some promises. 

He doesn't need to yet though. His job for the next year or two is to discredit this coalition at every turn. He's doing a decent job at it, TBH. 

[ExFlyer]

33 minutes ago, Boges said:

This is common in Canadian politics. 

In Ontario the Ontario Liberals led with impunity through scandals for 15 years. 

Finally Dofo came around and decimated them. You'd think Dofo wouldn't be a strong capable leader, but I don't mind him. The same thing could happen to PP.

Though, as this election nears, the fearmongering will escalate. And if PP doesn't create a plausible vision of how he sees Canada, we may get another Liberal mandate. There are things that the Liberals have done that I personally, don't hate. So will he roll everything back? I want some promises. 

He doesn't need to yet though. His job for the next year or two is to discredit this coalition at every turn. He's doing a decent job at it, TBH. 

That is my biggest fear also. He has to lay out believable and realistic plans and stop just whining.

[Michael Hardner]

48 minutes ago, Boges said:

 

In Ontario the Ontario Liberals led with impunity through scandals for 15 years. 

... Dofo wouldn't be a strong capable leader, but I don't mind him.  

Therein is the dichotomy of Canadian politics.  Scandals don't matter if you like the guy.  Similarly, we toss out scandal-free (or almost) leaders like PMs Harper and Martin pretty easily.

But anyway, as you are all saying, at this point in history having a vision is the most important thing.  PP might have it, but he's not talking about it so much... yet.  His fans on here don't seem to think that it's important - I had a thread where some suggested he just needs to cut the Carbon Tax, CBC and some civil servants and we'll be ok.

[Nefarious Banana]

7 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

That is my biggest fear also. He has to lay out believable and realistic plans and stop just whining.

Timing is everything.  Lay out specific plans too early, and those plans could be Liberal policy.  The Mutt & Jeff duo in Ottawa are out of ideas for this country.  Virtue signalling and photo opportunities is their policy.

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Finally Dofo came around and decimated them. You'd think Dofo wouldn't be a strong capable leader, but I don't mind him. The same thing could happen to PP.

I was expecting the worst from Doug Ford, even though I voted for him.  After his crackhead brother made a joke out of Toronto, it disgusted me that this was the best the PC could muster to go against the worst government Ontario has probably ever had. 

He has far exceeded my (admittedly low) expectations.  

2 hours ago, Boges said:

He doesn't need to yet though. His job for the next year or two is to discredit this coalition at every turn. He's doing a decent job at it, TBH. 

PP is also doing a decent job of discrediting himself.  As others have said, a dog (or  @Army Guy's pet hamster) would do a better job than Trudeau running the country, and probably beat him in an election.  I think the low IQ slogans, BSing and annoying-shrill routine is unnecessary, and doing him more harm than good for anything but his base.  Most Canadians dislike him, his credibility rating is almost as low as Trudeau's, and he's doing it all to himself.  

A Harper or Doug Ford approach would be a bigger winning ticket, in my mind.  Just be a reasonable, adult alternative, and Trudeau's continuing implosion will hand you a majority.  Don't be a Tim Hudak and go out of your way to lose an unlosable election.   

Edited May 24, 2024 by Moonbox

[ExFlyer]

23 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Timing is everything.  Lay out specific plans too early, and those plans could be Liberal policy.  The Mutt & Jeff duo in Ottawa are out of ideas for this country.  Virtue signalling and photo opportunities is their policy.

I agree with the mutt and jeff thing but, I must say I am getting weary of the PP show too.

If you think mutt and jeff are virtue signalling, then PP is taking lessons and doing well at it too LOL

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

How can PP be a problem?

He isn't. But we don't know if he will be once in power.

Even then, I just don't see how he could crap the bed like Trudeau. He might pee, but would have been wise enough to lay a plastic sheet first.

1 hour ago, Boges said:

He doesn't need to yet though.

If he is smart,  he won't show his cards until late in the game. Force Trudeau to figure things out, and then show a better plan too late for Trudeau to counter with a better one.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

How can PP be a problem?

He has no authority, no power and no (or few) plans. He is just b;owing smoke.

So far he is ineffectual, inert and powerless and can say and do anything without consequence.

What he may be or do in the future has yet to be seen or felt.

As for trudeau and jagmeet, the best thing in my mind is that they do not even get voted in their own seats. Wiped out completely

LOL -  man the left does get more bitter every day.  

He's leader of the opposition, so yes he has authority and power. He's not the gov't (yet) but it's  quite wrong to say the opposition has no power. 

He has quite a few plans. And he's given the over view on many.  The liberals and their supporters (Staaaaaaarre) are angry that he won't give them good ideas to steal right now (they did steal what he did share) but that's their problem. 

As to inefficient and inert - he took the cpc from polling at 33 percent to polling at 43 percent. He has raised his own profile and is now generally well supported and vastly exceeds Trudeau as first choice for next prime minister. He has reorganized the conservative party which will now be much more efficient than it was even before (and it was very effective before) and should over perform in the next election. He has convinced people to hate the carbon tax, which was an absolute sacred cow for years. And he is poised to win one of the greatest majority governments that our country has seen and will be well positioned for probably two more terms.

He has also united a slightly fractured conservative membership and he has successfully taken voters from both the liberals and NDP.

No wonder you liberals are so scared    If you think that's what he achieves when he's being "Inert" Then wait till he really starts trying  

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

He isn't. But we don't know if he will be once in power.

Even then, I just don't see how he could crap the bed like Trudeau. He might pee, but would have been wise enough to lay a plastic sheet first.

If he is smart,  he won't show his cards until late in the game. Force Trudeau to figure things out, and then show a better plan too late for Trudeau to counter with a better one.

The question was rhetorical with comment following. My entire comment was

"How can PP be a problem?

He has no authority, no power and no (or few) plans. He is just b;owing smoke.

So far he is ineffectual, inert and powerless and can say and do anything without consequence.

What he may be or do in the future has yet to be seen or felt."

The problem with waiting too long is he becomes irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors and no content. Like crying wolf once or twice too often...no one listens any more. He has to be more concise, precise and relevant and ....not too often

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

He isn't. But we don't know if he will be once in power.

Even then, I just don't see how he could crap the bed like Trudeau. He might pee, but would have been wise enough to lay a plastic sheet first.

If he is smart,  he won't show his cards until late in the game. Force Trudeau to figure things out, and then show a better plan too late for Trudeau to counter with a better one.

Well let's get real, it's almost impossible to crap the bed as much as Trudeau has. Even Paul Martin or Chretien would have done a vastly better job. This guy is beyond horrible regardless of his Party affiliation. This is probably as worse as it gets.

As far as Poilievre goes, I'm sure that the leftists will complain about one thing or another. They constantly did with harper even when they couldn't actually explain why they were mad about what he did. But I suspect that during his first two terms we should see the vast majority of things in Canada improve significantly.

Housing will get better over that time. Productivity and competitiveness will likely get better over that time. Inflation will likely come down during that time.

Whether those improvements are a little or a lot remains to be seen and inevitably there will come a crisis time, an economic downturn or something like covid or something be it major or minor because that's the way of the world. So we'll see how he handles that.

But overall he'll be a major Improvement regardless

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The question was rhetorical with comment following. My entire comment was

"How can PP be a problem?

He has no authority, no power and no (or few) plans. He is just b;owing smoke.

So far he is ineffectual, inert and powerless and can say and do anything without consequence.

What he may be or do in the future has yet to be seen or felt."

The problem with waiting too long is he becomes irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors and no content. Like crying wolf once or twice too often...no one listens any more. He has to be more concise, precise and relevant and ....not too often

He literally becomes more relevant every day. Which is why his polling numbers continue to go up, Trudeau's continues to go down, and popularity and confidence in pierre does the same thing.

He is challenging the sacred cows that the liberals have always hid behind, carbon tax, excessive immigration, excessive bureaucracy, federal interference in political politics etc and that message is resonating with people more and more every month. It has been a straight line increase for him for almost a year.

If he was any more relevant they would stop calling them history books when referring to this period and start calling them his diary

I mean logically he's got to cap out somewhere but at this rate if it were to continue as it has been he would be pulling at like 60% by the time the election came around

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

He literally becomes more relevant every day. Which is why his polling numbers continue to go up, Trudeau's continues to go down, and popularity and confidence in pierre does the same thing.

Popularity and confidence in Pierre is going up...kind of...sort of...barely?  

With the most unpopular Prime Minister ever and Canada at large completely souring on the government, you're impressed that Pierre's favorability ratings have nudged up a teeny weeny bit in the last year? 

The man is still as unpopular as ever, still deeply mistrusted, and still seen as the annoying, BS'ing shrill that he always was in the Harper government.  

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Popularity and confidence in Pierre is going up...kind of...sort of...barely?  

 

Well if you consider a 7  percent increase "barely" then sure. He started off around 33 percent at the end of 2022 and is currently cruising around 39 or better and it's gone up pretty much every month. I think most people would say that's fairly substantial, rather than just 'barely'. One percent or two would be 'barely'. Considering justin's at about 22.

But of course you'd have to downplay it   

Federal leadership: Trudeau enjoys end of year approval bump; Poilievre remains deeply unpopular with women - (angusreid.org)

No Bounce: Liberals' hoped-for support surge in wake of under-40 targeted spending blitz has yet to materialize - (angusreid.org)

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

With the most unpopular Prime Minister ever and Canada at large completely souring on the government, you're impressed that Pierre's favorability ratings have nudged up a teeny weeny bit in the last year? 

I know that you believe that other people's popularity goes up when one person goes down but that's not how it works even in politics. If that were the case then why isn't jag needs going up it's going down too right now. Why is Poilievre stealing from the ndp?

The evidence is pretty clear that while people are turning against Trudeau they are also turning for pierre and would regardless. Justin had low approval ratings in the last two elections as well and that didn't translate to love for the CPC leader. The simple fact is that Poilievre is winning the approval of Canadians the old fashioned way, by getting out and talking and meeting with them and discussing his views. And they are coming over to him in large numbers.

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The man is still as unpopular as ever, still deeply mistrusted, and still seen as the annoying, BS'ing shrill that he always was in the Harper government.  

Every poll says you're wrong. 

Even when asked questions like 'who's better at putting out a kitchen fire' or such PP still wins. 

and even more interestingly it's the people that used to be in the undecided column that are now moving to support him more and more. So as people get to know him they actually tend to prefer him.

There's got to be some ups and downs somewhere along the line, people can't just keep going up forever and ever. But so far he is on a steady climb and the more people see him the more they like him

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well if you consider a 7  percent increase "barely" then sure. He started off around 33 percent at the end of 2022 and is currently cruising around 39 or better and it's gone up pretty much every month.

Yeah. It's kind of sad.  In the nearly two years he's became CPC leader, he's only managed a 4% improvement, and that's with literally the worst and least popular PM in Canadian history playing the heel for him. 

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Every poll says you're wrong. 

No, they really don't lol.  The polls say Canadians don't trust him, with him scoring almost as low as Trudeau on credibility, and over half the country views him unfavorably. That's no surprise either, because he was one of the most highly disliked MPs in Harper's government even going back 15 years.  It doesn't seem much has changed.  

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Even when asked questions like 'who's better at putting out a kitchen fire' or such PP still wins. 

Over Trudeau and Jagger? Sure.  Anyone would beat those two buffoons on that.  Nobody here is trying to argue that Trudeau is likely to win the next election, or even that he deserves to.  

[ExFlyer]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

He literally becomes more relevant every day. Which is why his polling numbers continue to go up, Trudeau's continues to go down, and popularity and confidence in pierre does the same thing.

He is challenging the sacred cows that the liberals have always hid behind, carbon tax, excessive immigration, excessive bureaucracy, federal interference in political politics etc and that message is resonating with people more and more every month. It has been a straight line increase for him for almost a year.

If he was any more relevant they would stop calling them history books when referring to this period and start calling them his diary

I mean logically he's got to cap out somewhere but at this rate if it were to continue as it has been he would be pulling at like 60% by the time the election came around

I disagree. He becomes more and more irrelevant with constant whining and rhetoric.

His poll numbers go up because justins and jagmeets are dropping. The only other choice is PP.

He challenges nothing, let alone sacerd cows. he just complains about everything.....cries wolf every day, all day. It is easy to be a complainer when you have nothing to offer LOL

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Yeah. It's kind of sad.  In the nearly two years he's became CPC leader, he's only managed a 4% improvement, and that's with literally the worst and least popular PM in Canadian history playing the heel for him. 

Nothing sad about that at all. Trudeau's had 10 years and hes down about 30    And he was actually down pretty much right away.

Considering he's not even in government and considering the media dislike of him it's actually nothing short of miraculous.

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

No, they really don't lol. 

Yes they really do lol! 

And he doesn't score anywhere near Trudeau as far as credibility goes. Trudeau is in the Twenties while pierre's brushing 40. 

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

That's no surprise either, because he was one of the most highly disliked MPs in Harper's government even going back 15 years.

Even more amazing that his popularity has been on the climb, and that people prefer him for best prime minister. Not to mention the party's climb.

Every single metric every single poll has him climbing whether it's party support, his personal approval rating, people's impression of him, virtually everything is on the rise and significantly.

I know that must really upset people like you. Watching your beloved liberal party burn to the ground because of Justin must hurt.

But the simple fact is the polls are clear. People trust poilievre far more than they trust Justin or jag meet. It isn't even close. They prefer him for prime minister by leaps and bounds. Isn't even close. And it's popularity constantly climbs where is both Justin and the liberal party itself are plummeting towards a crash landing.

But hey. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right. Guess we'll find out voting day  

[Moonbox]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yes they really do lol! 

And he doesn't score anywhere near Trudeau as far as credibility goes. Trudeau is in the Twenties while pierre's brushing 40. 

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Sorry you're right  i was thinking of preferred prime minister and the party power index from nanos

 

 

People sure like the idea of PP being prime minister more than trudeau and the conservatives are way higher on the poer index. 

 And he's still beating trudeau in credibility too. 

So i guess i was still right  he's ahead in every single metric out there.   

LOL sorry about the collapse of your liberals  

[Moonlight Graham]

On 5/24/2024 at 10:59 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Therein is the dichotomy of Canadian politics.  Scandals don't matter if you like the guy.  Similarly, we toss out scandal-free (or almost) leaders like PMs Harper and Martin pretty easily.

But anyway, as you are all saying, at this point in history having a vision is the most important thing.  PP might have it, but he's not talking about it so much... yet.  His fans on here don't seem to think that it's important - I had a thread where some suggested he just needs to cut the Carbon Tax, CBC and some civil servants and we'll be ok.

Harper had some scandals, like proroguing Parliament to silence debate and accountability.  He had increasing issues with heavy handed control on his party. A reason he had to go.

Martin inherited Chretiens scandals, those Liberals had to go.  Trudeau had to go a couple of elections ago.

With 24/7 news and social media it usually seems to take a true narcissist to want to be leader now.  Who else would want all that attention?  Some people want to be rock stars.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

With 24/7 news and social media it usually seems to take a true narcissist to want to be leader now.  Who else would want all that attention?  Some people want to be rock stars.

Then again, Trump sort of proved that people don't really care as much as all that.