Capital Gains Tax vs Income Tax

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

There's no one thing, or even a few things that will solve this problem.  A comprehensive rethinking of how our entire economy is working right now needs to be undertaken.  

Here's a good article on it:

https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/the-great-rebuild-seven-ways-to-fix-canadas-housing-shortage/

A summary of some of the items:

1)  Curbing immigration, and/or being selective with who we let in based on skills (focusing on trades)

2) Massively expanding and promoting skilled-trades labor, training and education

3) Loosening zoning and density restrictions on PBR housing, lowering ppty taxes on apartment buildings, providing lower-interest rate loans on apartment construction, easing fees and approval times for such projects etc.  

What needs to be done is far more expansive than this, but I can't summarize it all here.  

 

I can't disagree with those, my point is I don't see how taxing something encourages people to do it.

[blackbird]

On 4/22/2024 at 6:26 PM, herbie said:

We don't hide. Cross a picket line and find out....

You make it sound like unions are like the mafia, organized crime.   Anyone who tries to stop a person from crossing a picket line should be charged with a crime and sent to jail.  Picket lines should not be allowed for essential services either and where they are allowed, only a maximum number of 2 picketers in any location.  They should not be used as a tool of intimidation or threats.  If they are found to be intimidating or threatening anyone, they should lose the right to picket and fined or jailed.

Unions in the health care system are part of the problem.  Too much power.  That is partly why public health care is failing. 

 

Edited May 4 by blackbird

[cannuck]

On 5/2/2024 at 6:13 PM, August1991 said:

To me, a dollar earned through labour should be taxed in the same way as a dollar earned  through savings.

Why should a capital gain be taxed any differently from a work gain?

Because a capital gain creates no wealth - it is purely inflationary.   One major reason housing is so expensive now is the free ride on the public of primary residence capital gains.

On a larger scale why does it matter?   By pushing money into the speculative markets you defund main street - where ALL wealth is created.   Banks/financiers love it because they  now control the entire economy and governments while bloating their purse through wealth re-distribution from inflation.

[cannuck]

13 hours ago, Aristides said:

I can't disagree with those, my point is I don't see how taxing something encourages people to do it.

There are SO MANY things totally wrong in the RBC document the interwebs don't have enough room to list it all.

The point in taxing a capital gain is to stop inflationary forces, not to encourage housing.   Also, a meagre effort to find the money to pay the interest on $1.4 Trillion federal debt (USD real money, not cdn funny money). 

Just a little note on foreign trades:  if you think you can bring a tradesman into Canada from a country with wildly different standards and throw them into some kind of Mickey Mouse school and make them wash away a lifetime of that culture to perform work to Canadian standards then you (i.e. RBC economists) have absolutely no experience in real life.   Similar for comments on using inferior materials.  Our methods of construction are already stretching the limits of inferiority.  

Edited May 4 by cannuck

[herbie]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

You make it sound like unions are like the mafia, organized crime. 

No but you do. It's 2024 and if you cross a picket line all you should expect is scorn these days. Which unfortunately not as effective as baseball bat in the knees when so f*cking many people are raised with no sense of shame whatsoever.

But keep hoping for your 1930 dreamworld where Pinkertons, the cops and Henry Ford shoot strikers dead, I can assure you the baseball bats will be back.
As "Lucilles"....

But this thread is about Capital Gains which has Sweet F*ck All to do with unions.

I'd suggest they redo the rate to 66% on amount over $500,000. Far less blowback as far less sympathy for anyone earning that much more than Joe Blow's wages.

Edited May 4 by herbie

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, herbie said:

I'd suggest they redo the rate to 66% on amount over $500,000. Far less blowback as far less sympathy for anyone earning that much more than Joe Blow's wages.

 I don't know, it sure looks like these people absolutely adore wealthy folk.  A tax on one is a tax on all.

[herbie]

Yes, they'll all give their lives for the right of someone else to get rich.

"Gold Rush" mentality predominates over common sense.

[cannuck]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

I'd suggest they redo the rate to 66% on amount over $500,000. Far less blowback as far less sympathy for anyone earning that much more than Joe Blow's wages.

I have written this here before, but IMHO tax on income should be flat tax, but capital gains should be "progressive".   My numbers are: 99% in first month, 95% in rest of tax year dropping 5% per year until at same level as income tax.  That way investment goes back into real business where the dividends post corporate tax should be tax free to genuine investors.   Speculative investment is the game of finance and 100% guarantee that in their casino, the house always wins.  If you are going to put inflationary pressure on John Q's money and purchasing power you need to pay your way.

Edited May 4 by cannuck

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I don't know, it sure looks like these people absolutely adore wealthy folk.

Wealthy folk are the ones that create jobs in a free enterprise system.  Stop coveting what the wealthy people have.

"17  Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s. "  Exodus 20:17

If you want more money, you know what to do about it.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

It's 2024 and if you cross a picket line all you should expect is scorn these days. Which unfortunately not as effective as baseball bat in the knees

Just outlaw strikes period.  Strikes lead to crime and turn people into criminals according to what you say.

Outlaw them completely and enforce binding arbitration for all disputes where the parties cannot come to an agreement in a reasonable time.  No more strike.  Simple.  It's 2024.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Stop coveting what the wealthy people have.

It's not what they have that I want. I want them to have exactly what you and I  have...no special access to politicians and other senior government officials.

You figure they earned that or is it more like something they inherited?

[CdnFox]

Just now, eyeball said:

It's not what they have that I want. I want them to have exactly what you and I  have...

So its not that you hate them for being wealthy, you just want everyone to be poor   LOLOL

Kid - you've got the same opportunities and powers 'they' do.  And we see that all the time, "litlte people" change the country plenty. You can be as wealthy as you want and your talents will let you .

If you're feeling like you're a failure then the fault is not in the system or the wealthy but you.  And if you ARE happy with what youv'e got then shut up.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

So its not that you hate them for being wealthy, you just want everyone to be poor

Nope that's not even close.

I said, no special access to politicians and other senior government officials for wealthy people. 3 percenters and up sort of wealthy.

It seems Poilievre might be against the idea too given he's been telling corporate lobbyists to take their issues to the public instead of him.  He'll apparently do what we say once we've made up our minds.

🤣 Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it.

Edited May 5 by eyeball

[August1991]

11 hours ago, cannuck said:

Because a capital gain creates no wealth - it is purely inflationary.   One major reason housing is so expensive now is the free ride on the public of primary residence capital gains.

On a larger scale why does it matter?   By pushing money into the speculative markets you defund main street - where ALL wealth is created.   Banks/financiers love it because they  now control the entire economy and governments while bloating their purse through wealth re-distribution from inflation.

Purely inflationary?

Disagree.

====

Everyone in Quebec says that Trump is a bad guy. Check what he did with SALT.

Edited May 5 by August1991

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Nope that's not even close.

Oh sorry.  I was just going by your words.  And previous statements.  And general attitude.

 

Quote

I said, no special access to politicians and other senior government officials for wealthy people. 3 percenters and up sort of wealthy.

Oh you mean like Aga Khan treating Justin to a muti million dollar vacation where he had him to talk to on his private island?

Yet you still support the guy and defend him daily? Or Jagmeet who talks about how hard people have it wearing a 15 thousand dollar rolex?

You seem to be coping with it ok.

Quote

It seems Poilievre might be against the idea too given he's been telling corporate lobbyists to take their issues to the public instead of him.

I'm sure he proably is - but he's against a LOT of what the libs and dips have promoted and the crimes they've committed in recent years and works harder than anyone to get rid of them, so it's no surprise.

Quote

 Seriously? I'll believe it when I see it.

No you won't.  You'll still be here claiming every day that justin is a golden boy and it's all harper's fault.

[August1991]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

....

Yet you still support the guy and defend him daily? Or Jagmeet who talks about how hard people have it wearing a 15 thousand dollar rolex?

....

I don't support either guy

But we Canadians have created a civilised place in the world: a federal state with two federal official languages but no official cultural. We get along.

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

I don't support either guy

But we Canadians have created a civilised place in the world: a federal state with two federal official languages but no official cultural. We get along.

Your province is on the verge of electing a gov't that is committed to separating by 2030.

We don't get along.  And lying about it only makes things worse.  This is why canada is falling apart. WE can't even be honest about our problems.

[blackbird]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

You figure they earned that or is it more like something they inherited?

Doesn't matter if one inherited their wealth or earned it, it is still theirs.  That is what private property is.  

Communists and Socialists do not respect private property and believe they are entitled to the property or wealth of others.  That is covetousness.  People that think like that need to be born again according to the Bible and believe the Bible which was given to us by God.  Respect private property, do not covet, and work for what you want.  Do not sit back and think government or wealthy people owe you anything because they don't.

I wouldn't be comfortable around people who think what I have should be theirs or belong to them.  Would you?  That is a reprobate or criminal mentality.  Respect other people's right to have wealth or things you do not have.  Earn what you want yourself.

Edited May 5 by blackbird

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Doesn't matter if one inherited their wealth or earned it, it is still theirs.  That is what private property is.  

I'm talking about the special access to people in power that wealthy people have come to expect.

I'm assuming you just take it as a given this belongs to them as well.

[blackbird]

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm talking about the special access to people in power that wealthy people have come to expect.

I'm assuming you just take it as a given this belongs to them as well.

No, I never thought or said anything about "special access" to people in power.

I doubt many people with wealth are trying to access people in power.

We did see a picture of Trudeau meeting with some Chinese guy who donated a lot to the Trudeau foundation a number of years ago.  Then after that, China has apparently been involved in helping the Liberals get elected in some ridings.

That's not what we were talking about though.  The subject is capital gains tax which has nothing to do with wealthy people accessing politicians.  That has nothing to do with it.

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm talking about the special access to people in power that wealthy people have come to expect.

 

It really doesn't exist.  This is a falsehood in your mind that you maintain for two reasons,

1) - it gives you an excuse for your desire to take away property from others.  "Oh they didn't REALLY earn their money, it's just that they knew the right people".  That justifies you stealing from them and hating them

2) - it excuses your own failures.  "I could have been wealthy too if i'd just had access to the right people"

 And yet when a paid lobbyist like Khan unlawfully bribes the prime minister and has him over to his island for days - you not only refuse to condemn it you actually repetatively pretend it never happens repetitively despite being hand fed the proofs regarding it.

Sorry kid - your failures are your own.  It's not who you don't know - it's you.

[blackbird]

On 5/4/2024 at 12:23 PM, herbie said:

Which unfortunately not as effective as baseball bat in the knees

Did you ever do anything like that?  If so, you should be investigated.

[herbie]

I only delivered fish.

 

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, herbie said:

I only delivered fish.

 

That does explain your smell.

[cannuck]

On 5/4/2024 at 4:19 PM, blackbird said:

Wealthy folk are the ones that create jobs in a free enterprise system.  Stop coveting what the wealthy people have.

While what you say COULD be true, but it is not.   The vast majority of new jobs come from small and medium size business.  Our economic system has been converted from productive to speculative, so people or institutions with significant funds will go for the capital gain almost every time.  Money invested in real business is lucky to net out 5% a year, but gambling on the market value can make you that much return over a few days - so WTF would they risk their capital on such meager returns???  Tax the crap out of those gains and it will once again be more beneficial to invest in productive ventures to earn dividends, not to speculate on the stock.

I know you mean well, but you don't seem to understand how our economy works (or in this case, does NOT work).    Take a look at last week's disgusting $5Bn handout.   That $5Bn of tax dollars "created" 1,000 direct new jobs - that's $5mm per job.  Except that was on 1/3 of the investment.   If that money was invested in a small business, just ask such a concern if they could find ONE employee that could handle the what it takes to put $15mm to work.  Yes, there are spinoff jobs, but each and every small business job ALSO supports an equal number of spinoff jobs.  So tell me: what would you rather have?   !,000 new jobs from a big financial deal or tens of thousands of new jobs in our economy for the same kind of money?

On the cap gains side:  capital markets are very difficult for small and emerging mid size business to access.  The big bux wash in and out of locations where the best tax deal is - NOTE THEY GO OUT as much as in.  When you see a large cap capex for say: an Amazon order completion center - remember every one of those poorly paid worker bee jobs comes at the expense of a less efficient but much higher manual labour displacement of the existing retail distribution system.   Yes, Amazon creates a lot of new jobs for Amazon (mostly in China) but guts the small and medium businesses.  You can not "invest" in Amazon, but you can gamble on buying existing stock from someone else.  Their days of IPO, POs are long gone and I suspect you are not in a place to do a private placement.

Car companies one of the worst for going in large blocks from country to country where governments compete with each other for how much tax advantage and pure handouts they can get.   When someone celebrates how local riches are about to flow in from "new" jobs, you will usually find another plant that got closed down in another region or country to do so.

Fix the free ride on the public of capital gains by taxing it for what it is - nothing but gambling - and move investment money into productive endeavours and THEN we could see "wealthy people" create jobs.

Sorry to ramble a bit.   Trying to post a bit before having to go do some dirty capitalist pig stuff.