Army Guy Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 The lack of US support along with some of it's allieds is being noticed on the battlefield , Russia has made steady gaines in the last 5 months most of it is due to lack of direct support in regards to Ammo and equipment such as air defenses...Ukraine is starting to panic as Russia is gearing up for a spring offensive...Ukraine's panic is not gone unnoticed with all the requests it is putting out for more equipment and supplies, i mean come on to ask anything from Canada in regards to military equipment is a little desperate..they also mention sending over what we consider junk , they would fix it and put it into service... Ukraine knows first hand that any Russian gains means more Ukrainian lives will be lost to regain any territory... Not sure why Canada is balking at sending more military aid, or vehicles, we have sent 8 Leo IIA4 tanks, which according to the liberals will be replaced, so if they are going to purchase 8 new or used tanks, what is the difference if they purchase 10, 20, 30, 40 tanks it is just a number...and lets face it they are old tanks, Put that into perspective they were built or upgraded in 1994... been driven hard and put away wet, we use them for training tanks as we did not buy all the extra armor or upgrades that goes with them... The remaining 40 LeoIIA4M and LeoIIA6M are our operational tanks, ya thats right 40 tanks are combat ready, 20 of those were made in 1990, and the other 20 Leo IIA6M were made in 2004...These tanks most of them have already seen combat, some blown up by IED in Afghanistan, and rebuilt ...so these ones have been used hard, very hard....Germany is now producing the LeoIIA8, which is 4 models more advanced than our latest LEO IIA6M...Lessons learned from the Ukrainian conflict have not been address in a new model but it is coming as experimental tanks have already been built and shown to the world. Why not replace the whole fleet. We also as mentioned in the article have older equipment that has been taken out of service which could be sent, not to mention some of the useless equipment we have that is newer, like the TPAV, or how about those F-18 we bought off the Aussies, or those AOP's that are just being built , you know the ones that have their own swimming pools built in.... As Russia presses forward, Ukraine pleads with Canada for armour, air defence (msn.com) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 (edited) I think the lack of support is because tit is no longer front page news. I also think that in todays political climate, Canada (or should I say liberals) cannot give anymore without the public blowing up. We also admonished the government for giving "old" stock to Ukraine. Sadly, Russia taking control is no longer cared about. I believe with full support of NATO and if the NATO countries would have accepted Ukraine's applications, things would be different but... Edited April 20 by ExFlyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 21 Author Report Share Posted April 21 8 hours ago, ExFlyer said: I think the lack of support is because tit is no longer front page news. I also think that in todays political climate, Canada (or should I say liberals) cannot give anymore without the public blowing up. We also admonished the government for giving "old" stock to Ukraine. Sadly, Russia taking control is no longer cared about. I believe with full support of NATO and if the NATO countries would have accepted Ukraine's applications, things would be different but... I see it everyday, perhaps most people are just glossing over those stories...I've said it a million times unless it is hockey , beer, or holidays, or the government giving out free money Most Canadians are not interested...they did not give a shit about our own troops in Afghanistan after the first 5 years...so really it's not surprising... The public blowing up...they are not interested in buying new stuff maybe...but giving away the old stuff, why should they care they really are not interested in our military to start with...I would think they would be eager to get rid of all of it... Maybe it is the only way we will get new stuff...for those that do care... I wonder how concerned they will get when this grows into something else, or higher Investment (GDP %) are going to be demanded by NATO as a whole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 (edited) 12 hours ago, Army Guy said: Not sure why Canada is balking at sending more military aid, Two thoughts: 1) Canada isn't likely to send much of anything while the US is waffling. It'd be like trying to dump a sand bucket of rocks to fix a broken dam. Not worth doing unless the heavy lifters are committed as well. 2) We barely have anything to give. Yes, we have a few tanks, but until the Ukrainian airforce is reinforced and their ammo shortages backstopped, we'd be sending expensive (albeit old) equipment that isn't being properly supported. Beyond that, our military is crippled by decades of neglect, so our support is probably never going to amount to more than $$$ and a few tokens. Fortunately, the US Republicans aren't completely beholden to Orange Man and just passed $60B worth of Ukraine aid today...That's something. JT needs a swift kick in the acehole to start doing something meaningful. Don't worry though. All that money that could be spent rehabilitating our abused military will be well-spent on giving unnecessary public service jobs to immigrants we don't want or need. 😐👍 Edited April 21 by Moonbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 This war will end through negotiations. Hate to say it, but Russia is correct. The US is simply delaying that inevitable result, and costing hundreds of thousands of lives in doing so. There will be no win. This war should never had occurred to begin with, and it having begun means it can only end on Russian terms. The quicker the world sees this, the quicker this negotiated end will come. However, in negotiations, its always wisest to do so from a strong hand. You're otherwise begging. Time isn't on Ukraine's end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 The U.S. House of Representatives just approved 61 billion U.S. dollars in aid for Ukraine. The next step is getting it through the Senate and signed off by the President. That should happen in the next week or so. This aid is a long time in coming but finally looks like it will happen. Putin is choked about it, but he started this war. This aid is essential to defend democracy in the world and send a message to the tyrants of the world that they cannot just do whatever they wish. If Putin is not stopped from taking over the Ukraine, then some other country in Europe could be next. That is the sad reality of the world. Of course it has to end by some kind of negotiations but Russia has to be stopped from taking over Ukraine as well. They cannot negotiate while Russia holds part of Ukraine. They must be pushed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 47 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: This war should never had occurred to begin with, and it having begun means it can only end on Russian terms. Should have ever begun, but little Putin started it. Russian terms? If you're only concerned about Russian terms, then we're not really concerned about negotiation at all, but rather just caving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: Should have ever begun, but little Putin started it. He did. China has similar tensions with a peninsula they believe is theirs. The world walks a tight rope, to keep what is sovereign land, as ambiguous as possible. The Philippines have many US soldiers stationed hundreds of KMs from Taiwan. Both these countries take more submissive tones, knowing far too well, that if war were to occur, they would likely be on their own. There is a humility that comes with this. Or should. Ukraine took a tough stance to match Russia's. Zelensky felt emboldened by what he felt was US backing. Once Russia invaded, they realized they were on their own. Quite humbling. The US throwing billions and weapons is irrelevant, as you're sooner or later going to run out of qualified manpower. Time doesn't support Ukraine. Time favors Russia. Ukraine should have negotiated with humility in mind. Russia is the aggressor, but you have a bully with weapons drawn, you don't hide behind the distant neighbor or ally promising to help. You make sure you have equal firepower, or negotiate with the level of urgency of one knowing they are facing imminent doom. 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: Russian terms? If you think Russia is giving back an inch, then you are daydreaming. Their terms at minimum would be keeping that land, but not only this, it being internationally recognized. 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: If you're only concerned about Russian terms I think both terms should matter. However the terms that stick, will have stronger weapons behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 19 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: However the terms that stick, will have stronger weapons behind them Sure that's why we have nukes. The same better dead than...whatever...should apply as before. I'd rather see fighter jets and bombers donated to Ukraine then nukes but at the end of the day fu ck Putin. Completely and unequivocally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 50 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: The US throwing billions and weapons is irrelevant, as you're sooner or later going to run out of qualified manpower. Evidently it's not irrelevant, because the front line hasn't moved for 2 years, Ukraine is still standing, and the decrepit and incompetent Russian army has been utterly humiliated. 🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 35 minutes ago, eyeball said: ... but at the end of the day fu ck Putin. Completely and unequivocally. The hard left and hard right... Don't agree with that. But I do. The guy engaged in a pre-World war II. Land annexation gambit. We don't want to throw the clock back that far. Increasing your personal wealth by bombing civilians... no. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 5 hours ago, eyeball said: Sure that's why we have nukes. Ukraine does not. They will be at the negotiating table with Russia. Nukes are precisely why no country would be crazy enough to plan an invasion or surprise attacks on US soil in modern times, considering its history of heavy handed and even nuclear rebukes to such stunts. Russia respects power. Ukraine does not project much, which is why he is bullying them. 5 hours ago, eyeball said: I'd rather see fighter jets and bombers donated to Ukraine You can't do so into perpetuity. Sooner or later, the war will need to end. With no end game or plan in sight, you're literally just throwing billions in the garbage. If this was about lives, there would be urgency to end it. So it should be seen financially, only. How much financial cost will the west be willing to absorb to punish Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 5 hours ago, Moonbox said: Evidently it's not irrelevant, because the front line hasn't moved for 2 years How long will the west have an appetite for a highly expensive stalemate will be determined at the ballot box. I think the appetite is gone or near it. 5 hours ago, Moonbox said: Ukraine is still standing Hopefully it stays the same. The longer this goes, I just don't see a setting where things play in Ukraine's hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 On 4/20/2024 at 9:12 AM, Army Guy said: The lack of US support along with some of it's allieds is being noticed on the battlefield , Russia has made steady gaines in the last 5 months most of it is due to lack of direct support in regards to Ammo and equipment such as air defenses...Ukraine is starting to panic as Russia is gearing up for a spring offensive...Ukraine's panic is not gone unnoticed with all the requests it is putting out for more equipment and supplies, i mean come on to ask anything from Canada in regards to military equipment is a little desperate..they also mention sending over what we consider junk , they would fix it and put it into service... Ukraine knows first hand that any Russian gains means more Ukrainian lives will be lost to regain any territory... Not sure why Canada is balking at sending more military aid, or vehicles, we have sent 8 Leo IIA4 tanks, which according to the liberals will be replaced, so if they are going to purchase 8 new or used tanks, what is the difference if they purchase 10, 20, 30, 40 tanks it is just a number...and lets face it they are old tanks, Put that into perspective they were built or upgraded in 1994... been driven hard and put away wet, we use them for training tanks as we did not buy all the extra armor or upgrades that goes with them... The remaining 40 LeoIIA4M and LeoIIA6M are our operational tanks, ya thats right 40 tanks are combat ready, 20 of those were made in 1990, and the other 20 Leo IIA6M were made in 2004...These tanks most of them have already seen combat, some blown up by IED in Afghanistan, and rebuilt ...so these ones have been used hard, very hard....Germany is now producing the LeoIIA8, which is 4 models more advanced than our latest LEO IIA6M...Lessons learned from the Ukrainian conflict have not been address in a new model but it is coming as experimental tanks have already been built and shown to the world. Why not replace the whole fleet. We also as mentioned in the article have older equipment that has been taken out of service which could be sent, not to mention some of the useless equipment we have that is newer, like the TPAV, or how about those F-18 we bought off the Aussies, or those AOP's that are just being built , you know the ones that have their own swimming pools built in.... As Russia presses forward, Ukraine pleads with Canada for armour, air defence (msn.com) I heard from someone in the military directly that we do not have 40 servicable combat tanks. We have nothing. We have nothing left to send that would be of any use. That's where the canadian military is at. The best we can do is pay for someone else to send them anti-air systems, We don't fund our own military - and you're wondering why he isn't putting more into someone else's military? Anyway the us just signed off on a bunch - we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 7 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Russia respects power. Ukraine does not project much, which is why he is bullying them. If Ukraine needs nukes to stop Putin then so be it. Russia's contempt as well as every other dictators will be infectious if Ukraine loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, eyeball said: If Ukraine needs nukes to stop Putin then so be it. They don't have any. Thats the issue. They are a defenseless prey to a bigger bully. Let's be real. The only thing the west is doing, is buying Ukraine time. Eventually, wars become so painfully expensive that even the richest nations need to look at whether the cost truly is worth the financial toll. Russia has no choice. They are fully committed. Ukraine has no choice. Full failure, is the erasure of its state. Its sovereignty. The west has a choice, whether one likes it or not. Negotiate an end, that shows weakness to Russia, or continue to fund and hold appearances of strength. Sooner or later, that united front will start to weaken. My bet, it being when the war reaches a price point or cost that truly starts hurting the western allies that are assisting. 2 hours ago, eyeball said: Russia's contempt as well as every other dictators will be infectious if Ukraine loses. I don't buy it. North Korea invading their southern nemesis, would be met with a heavy handed rebuke. China invading Taiwan, would be a catastrophic mistake for China. A massive downfall from the empire they spend generations building. They are better off winning politically by continuing to pressure the peninsula. Anyone wanting to invade Israel. Its just scare tactics to get more funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 4 hours ago, eyeball said: If Ukraine needs nukes to stop Putin then so be it. Russia's contempt as well as every other dictators will be infectious if Ukraine loses. You are insane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 5 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Let's be real. The only thing the west is doing, is buying Ukraine time. Caving to Putin slowly is still caving. 5 hours ago, Perspektiv said: The west has a choice, whether one likes it or not. That's right, and that choice should include the option of arming Ukraine with nuclear weapons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: You are insane. Sure, and I think you're nuts for wanting to cave to Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Sure, and I think you're nuts for wanting to cave to Putin. Cave? To what? Can Ukraine beat those Russian forces back? No. Will the land Russia has taken ever be returned to Ukraine? No. Is Ukraine out of military personnel and arms? Yes. Has it become evident Zelinsky and his cronies have been pilfering the financial aid from NATO? Yes. You hate Putin...I get it. Lots of people hate Putin. There's a lot of reasons for that. One reason you would site is that he's supposedly a dictator. Meh...he may well be one of sorts. Why do you care? Is Zelinsky a dictator too? Yup. Why do you care? "PUTIN BAD!!!" Yes! Putin and Russia have the very real potential to destroy humanity...as do the USA. Who should be trusted? Realistically neither. This is a war that cannot ever take place. Ukraine never had a chance of "winning" this war. You choose to support war...death...inevitable if not already tragic and unnecessary destruction of Ukraine. For what? You have exactly zero skin in this fight. The USA is now financing its own military re-build. I support reality and peace. I probably have more skin in this fight than you. Yet it makes no real difference to me if Ukraine is in NATO or not. Zelinsky chose to crap on the ethnic Russians along the Russian border and the Russians got mad. What a surprise. Your position is based on lies and I think you probably know it. Not only that, but your nice little TV war is adding to inflation. Ya wanna fight Russians. Be my guest. I would rather not and I most certainly do not wanna pay... For a lost cause that only serves to heighten the possibility of the unthinkable. Edited April 22 by Nationalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Cave? To what? Cave to naked aggression and wars of conquest. 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Can Ukraine beat those Russian forces back? No. Obviously they can, because they've been doing it since 2022. This whole war has gone about as poorly for Putin as possible. 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Will the land Russia has taken ever be returned to Ukraine? No. Maybe not, but the Ukrainians already took back large swathes of territory before, didn't they? 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Is Ukraine out of military personnel and arms? Yes. $60B of US aid being signed and on its way tomorrow. 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Has it become evident Zelinsky and his cronies have been pilfering the financial aid from NATO? Yes. Like your bioweapon labs? 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 17 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Cave to naked aggression and wars of conquest. Obviously they can, because they've been doing it since 2022. This whole war has gone about as poorly for Putin as possible. Maybe not, but the Ukrainians already took back large swathes of territory before, didn't they? $60B of US aid being signed and on its way tomorrow. Like your bioweapon labs? 🤡 Hi dopey. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682 "Ukraine does operate biological laboratories that receive US funding. The US undersecretary of state Victoria Nuland affirmed those facts in a Senate foreign relations committee hearing this week, in which the Republican senator Marco Rubio asked directly if Ukraine had biological weapons. Nuland did not answer the question head on. “Ukraine has biological research facilities,” she said, adding that there was concern that Russian forces were trying to gain control of the labs. “We are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/11/russia-biological-weapon-claim-us-un-ukraine-bio-labs-explainer Do I believe a word Nuland says? Huh...nope. On the bright side...clown-boy...Zelinsky is getting more money and will probably let his wife buy another house somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Biological research facilities =/ bioweapon labs. Anyone who lives near a university lives near biological research facilities. 4 minutes ago, Nationalist said: On the bright side...clown-boy...Zelinsky is getting more money and will probably let his wife buy another house somewhere. He should ask Putin if this is baby is for sale: 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Biological research facilities =/ bioweapon labs. Anyone who lives near a university lives near biological research facilities. He should ask Putin if this is baby is for sale: 🙄 Again...I don't believe a word Nuland says. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26089450 She has always been a war monger and I'm glad the tw@t is out of the way. Oh and...I'm not paying for Putin's homes...I am paying for comic-boy's. Edited April 22 by Nationalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 23 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Again...I don't believe a word Nuland says. and you're a great judge of credibility, as you parrot Tucker Carlson at every turn. 🙄 23 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Oh and...I'm not paying for Putin's homes...I am paying for comic-boy's. The made-up ones that don't exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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