Canada's Air Force ends pilot training as Ottawa’s spending priorities grow more unbalanced

[Aristides]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The F35 is a single seater so, all formal and "advanced" training is done in simulators.

Whoever does the "training" in the simulators is immaterial.

Tactics, on the other hand, if specifically Canadian, will be classrooms in squadrons.

It's not just single seaters, simulators are so good now, the first time transitioning airline pilots fly the actual aircraft there are passengers in the back. When I was in the airline biz we used simulators all over North America and even the UK but we always used our own instructors training to our own procedures. 

[eyeball]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:27 PM, Army Guy said:

This is what Canadians want....until they stand up and make this an issue nothing will stop and our military will decline into nothingness...

Did the government of the day ever ask Canadians if they wanted to scrap the Avro Arrow and I mean as directly as I just asked?

Asking Canadians what they want (LOL) is just not part of the program.

Wait for it....

[eyeball]

On 3/14/2024 at 7:44 AM, Moonbox said:

I think there are some issues of scale here.  

Speaking of scale, didn't we have the 4th largest armed force on the planet once upon a time? We could have had a seat on the UN Security Council with those sort of chops. So what happened? I mean I get that being 4th place was due to having an economy on a wartime footing but clearly this business of declining started long before any of us were born.

Why would a government with the 4th largest army in hand start us down that path?

[Venandi]

15 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

We have used foreign countries for our needs for many decades

True enough but what I’m suggesting is that it’s a matter of context and extent, I'll leave you with a final thought:

Contracted Initial cadre training on new acquisitions, say the C17 or B200 makes sense, short term requirements with leased aircraft like the Heron UAV is another. Contract maintenance on small, special purpose fleets qualifies too. And, if your operational tempo is high and  organic assets are too limited to support long duration training, well you contract that too. The common element is that seasoned RCAF pilots are sent to an allied nation (or civilian company) as a stop gap training measure but those pilots are produced in numbers that reflect RCAF requirements and national priorities.

It's a galaxy away from contracting everything from day one of PFS to wings parade. This may be necessary due to personnel deficiencies (I don't know for sure), but it’s a vulnerability all the same.

If national production priorities ever collide between us and the host nation, and I think they will, it will be our training slots that are cut back, delayed, or totally eliminated. If the pilot training stream is deemed essential and if it qualifies as a national priority, we may find ourselves asking what has become an all too common question... how did we get here?

Edited March 16 by Venandi

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

the RCAF remains at the ready to deliver NATO B61 tactical nuclear bombs stored in Europe

same as it ever was, beginning with the CF-104, through the CF-18

BS, once again.

"Canada has not officially maintained and possessed weapons of mass destruction since 1984 and, as of 1998, has signed treaties repudiating possession of them. Canada ratified the Geneva Protocol in 1930 and the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty in 1970."

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, Venandi said:

True enough but what I’m suggesting is that it’s a matter of context and extent, I'll leave you with a final thought:

Contracted Initial cadre training on new acquisitions, say the C17 or B200 makes sense, short term requirements with leased aircraft like the Heron UAV is another. Contract maintenance on small, special purpose fleets qualifies too. And, if your operational tempo is high and  organic assets are too limited to support long duration training, well you contract that too. The common element is that seasoned RCAF pilots are sent to an allied nation (or civilian company) as a stop gap training measure but those pilots are produced in numbers that reflect RCAF requirements and national priorities.

It's a galaxy away from contracting everything from day one of PFS to wings parade. This may be necessary due to personnel deficiencies (I don't know for sure), but it’s a vulnerability all the same.

If national production priorities ever collide between us and the host nation, and I think they will, it will be our training slots that are cut back, delayed, or totally eliminated. If the pilot training stream is deemed essential and if it qualifies as a national priority, we may find ourselves asking what has become an all too common question... how did we get here?

Yes.

All I was and am saying is that our thruts to and about our Military is that they are a hindrance and it is more important to contract out necessities to provide civilian jobs. It, in my opinion completely demeans and impairs our military operations, capabilities and self sustainability.

So, we have what we want with our military, by all current and previous governments. We did not get here overnight. The only times we seem to need military is for sand bagging during floods, firefighting during forest fires season and of course, shovelling Toronto streets during a snow storm..... or an excuse or example of our participation in NATO.

If ever we truly need a military, we have none.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

BS, once again.

"Canada has not officially maintained and possessed weapons of mass destruction since 1984 and, as of 1998, has signed treaties repudiating possession of them. Canada ratified the Geneva Protocol in 1930 and the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty in 1970."

NATO deploys an inventory of B61 tactical thermonuclear bombs stored at four locations in Europe

Germany, the Netherlands, Italy & Turkey

these nuclear weapons are intended to be delivered by NATO allies, including Canada

under the NATO Nuclear Sharing arrangement called the  Nuclear Planning Group ( NPG )

Canada has participated in the NATO nuclear deterrent from the beginning

the CF-104 was the first RCAF fighter capable of delivering the NATO nuclear arsenal

CF-18 carried on the role next

in the event of war, with F-35, at the control of the SACEUR as authorized by the POTUS

NATO allies will have stealth fighters capable of delivering 2 x B61 while evading Russian defences,

with a strike radius of 600 nautical miles, to a maximum yield of 340 kilotons each

any allied F-35 activated to NATO could be tasked to carry out the mission, to include CF-35A's

and just one CF-35A could deliver 680 kilotons on Moscow, without any early warning

thus, by definition, the CF-35A will be the most powerful weapon ever deployed by Canada

the NATO nuclear deterrent is fully compliant with the NPT therein ;

"Extended deterrence has been a key component of NATO’s collective security from its inception. The first US atomic weapons arrived in Europe in 1954. In 1966, the NPG was formally established to exercise collective political control over NATO’s nuclear mission. The NPG provided a platform to non-nuclear NATO Allies to shape the Alliance’s nuclear policy and planning as a mean to guarantee their security without acquiring nuclear weapons."

"NATO’s nuclear sharing arrangements were, and remain, in full compliance with the NPT. When the deliberations of the NPT began in the 1960s, NATO’s nuclear sharing arrangements already existed and were known to the Soviet Union. During their bilateral discussions on the draft NPT, both the US and the USSR carefully negotiated text to ensure that no provisions prohibited NATO’s nuclear sharing which were viewed by both actors as necessary to prevent further nuclear  weapons developments by European nations"

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/2/pdf/220204-factsheet-nuclear-sharing-arrange.pdf

Edited March 16 by Dougie93

[Moonbox]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Speaking of scale, didn't we have the 4th largest armed force on the planet once upon a time? We could have had a seat on the UN Security Council with those sort of chops. So what happened? I mean I get that being 4th place was due to having an economy on a wartime footing but clearly this business of declining started long before any of us were born.

4th?  Maybe by some strictly technical measure, immediately after German/Japanese disarmament and immediately before our own.  

I don't think it really matters.  The fact is that our military has been left to rot, and whatever you want to say, there's value in having one.  

[Aristides]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

Did the government of the day ever ask Canadians if they wanted to scrap the Avro Arrow and I mean as directly as I just asked?

Asking Canadians what they want (LOL) is just not part of the program.

Wait for it....

Without exports the Arrow would have bankrupted us.

[blackbird]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

Did the government of the day ever ask Canadians if they wanted to scrap the Avro Arrow and I mean as directly as I just asked?

You think the average Canadian is qualified to decide what aircraft the Canadian Forces should have?

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

NATO deploys an inventory ......

.

Canada has no, and will never under present policy, nuclear weapon capability and does not participate in nuclear weaponry.

Your deflection of your original post is still BS.

Just accept that we have been with the F35 program from the beginning and, as the topic says, we are not doing in house training..

Edited March 16 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Canada has no nu8clear weapon capability and does not particiate in nuclear weaponry.

Canada participates in the American nuclear deterrent in two ways

at the strategic level by way of NORAD

at the tactical level by way of NATO

America's nuclear deterrent is extended to Canada

to include the CAF delivering ether strategic and/or tactical nuclear weapons

the RCAF has always fulfilled the mission of delivering the B61 tactical nuclear bomb for NATO therein

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada participates in the American nuclear deterrent in two ways

at the strategic level by way of NORAD

at the tactical level by way of NATO

America's nuclear deterrent is extended to Canada

to include the CAF delivering ether strategic and/or tactical nuclear weapons

the RCAF has always fulfilled the mission of delivering the B61 tactical nuclear bomb for NATO therein

What a monumental load of crap!!!

Give it up loser LOL

[Dougie93]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

What a monumental load of crap!!!

Give it up loser LOL

it's funny how misinformed you are, considering your ceaseless bluster about being an expert

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it's funny how misinformed you are, considering your ceaseless bluster about being an expert

I cannot deal with F'n 1diots like you .....then again, we need your kind to make all others look good.

Uninformed is your title, not mine.

Edited March 16 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

I cannot deal with F'n 1diots like you .....then again, we need your kind to make all others look good.

some Reg Force REMF is triggered

/ shrugs

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

some Reg Force REMF is triggered

/ shrugs

Nope, just very low tolerance for fools and 1diots. You have breached the very low standard and are lowering the bar every post LOL

Go worship your murderers....

[Dougie93]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

Nope, just very low tolerance for fools and 1diots. You have breached the very low standard and are lowering the bar every post LOL

Go worship your murderers....

obvious triggered is obvious

you're really just a glorified civil servant

the military to you was just a government job

you've even admitted that you took you oath of allegiance to the Commander-in-Chief falsely

you've claimed that you are a NATO veteran falsely, having never been activated for any NATO operation

you claim to be an expert by appeal to authority

because you were some aviation tech serving your entire career in a service support role in Canada

yet you really have no military operational experience at all

ultimate Reg Force REMF waste of rations dining out on the Canadian taxpayer's dime

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

obvious triggered is obvious

...

The military to you is just a video game played in your basement.

Your part time experience is where you learned to worship murderers and torturers.

Call me what you want but i served full time for 35 years and have experience at all levels of the Military unlike a guy like you that could not even hack a part time tenure it and bailed out.

Yup, a definition of a loser has your photo next to it LOL

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You think the average Canadian is qualified to decide what aircraft the Canadian Forces should have?

I certainly think the average Canadian was qualified enough to determine why it needed an air-force back then. Apparently Ottawa gave Canadians their opinions on the matter decades ago. The pattern remains the same to this day. 

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The military to you is just a video game played in your basement.

Your part time experience is where you learned to worship murderers and torturers.

Call me what you want but i served full time for 35 years and have experience at all levels of the Military unlike a guy like you that could not even hack a part time tenure it and bailed out.

Yup, a definition of a loser has your photo next to it LOL

35 years of wasting rations in an non operational role

the only loser therein is the Canadian taxpayer

funding you to dine out in a tasking which should be done by a civilian agency

then you got yourself an even cushier job, as a bureaucrat at NDHQ

fat cat REMF then goes on some internet forum trying to pull rank on civilians

what a clown

[ExFlyer]

59 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

35 years of wasting rations in an non operational role

the only loser therein is the Canadian taxpayer

funding you to dine out in a tasking which should be done by a civilian agency

then you got yourself an even cushier job, as a bureaucrat at NDHQ

fat cat REMF then goes on some internet forum trying to pull rank on civilians

what a clown

Loser, my 35 years have allowed me to know when useless part timers like you are a detriment to our Military and bail out, we are all happy and grateful you are gone.

The taxpayer got their money worth from my tenure in the Military unlike from a part time loser like you. They wasted money training you, clothing you, feeding you and only to have you bail out when it got a little tough for you.

I earned my way up the promotion ladder and was able to see losers like you stay behind or bail, as you did. The higher the rank the more we saw your type and tried very hard to weed you out before you infected good Military personnel.

I only bring up my rank when losers like you try to berate a full time career and make it sound like your basement dwelling self is worth anything. Try as you might, you are a loser and the more you post and try to make yourself into something, you lose so go back to your basement and worship your murderous torturing heroes.

[Dougie93]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

Loser, my 35 years have allowed me to know when useless part timers like you are a detriment to our Military and bail out, we are all happy and grateful you are gone.

The taxpayer got their money worth from my tenure in the Military unlike from a part time loser like you. They wasted money training you, clothing you, feeding you and only to have you bail out when it got a little tough for you.

I earned my way up the promotion ladder and was able to see losers like you stay behind or bail, as you did. The higher the rank the more we saw your type and tried very hard to weed you out before you infected good Military personnel.

I only bring up my rank when losers like you try to berate a full time career and make it sound like your basement dwelling self is worth anything. Try as you might, you are a loser and the more you post and try to make yourself into something, you lose so go back to your basement and worship your murderous torturing heroes.

Reg Force REMF is triggered

/ shrugs

[ExFlyer]

35 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Reg Force REMF is triggered

/ shrugs

Go away loser.

Not triggered because I served a full career, unlike you who had to bail out of even part time before things got too tough LOL

Go live in the glory of your 18th century military fantasy.

You couldn't hack it as a real (part time) soldier so you have to live in 200 year old fantasy land videos LOL.

The truly unfortunate thing is the Military has seen far to many loser like you. A waste of our resources.

Edited March 16 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Go away loser.

Not triggered because I served a full career, unlike you who had to bail out of even part time before things got too tough LOL

Go live in the glory of your 18th century military fantasy.

You couldn't hack it as a real (part time) soldier so you have to live in 200 year old fantasy land videos LOL.

go ahead and lose your shit over it if you feel the need

/ shrugs