The awe-inspiring conservative counter-offensive against woke nonsense

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

It's funny watching you say stuff like this, because nobody on this forum is less capable of introspection or self-awareness than you.  🤡

Ahh little guy - still trying to massage your fractured ego i see

Mike has some honesty issues and a few other quirks, no biggie.  YOU on the other hand are a complete mess, to the point where i can predict your insane behavior and regularly do - and you do it anyway    And you project your issues on others when you're not blaming them for your issues.

Sorry kid - you're not even in the same league   You've got real issues.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

1. Nobody is going to use 'extreme social progressives' 

2. It's not that your term is necessarily inaccurate (not totally as I think the majority of progressives at the very least support such things), but that it's too, I don't know, clinical. It also lacks the contempt with which the right has imbued the word 'work'. 

1. I agree.

2. It's just a definition, not meant to be a term people would use.

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Ahh little guy - still trying to massage your fractured ego i see

Mike has some honesty issues and a few other quirks, no biggie.  YOU on the other hand are a complete mess, to the point where i can predict your insane behavior and regularly do - and you do it anyway    And you project your issues on others when you're not blaming them for your issues.

Sorry kid - you're not even in the same league   You've got real issues.

I can predict your behavior too.   🤣

You'll start a debate, get into an argument, make up and mischaracterize something someone says, tell them they're lying when they point that out, then squawk and carry on about muffins, little guys and project about fragile egos.  

You've been doing it all day.  You'll do it tomorrow.  You'll do it 16 hours a day, multiple people will call you out for it, and you'll argue as long as somebody is paying attention to you.  🤡

Edited March 6, 2024 by Moonbox

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Surely you don't enjoy it or think you can win any sort of applause from weary-eyed bystanders?

It's like... there seems to almost be a resolution... just another post away and we'll get to an understanding...

It never comes though.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

but that it's too, I don't know, clinical.

I see it like those who hate words like "Karen". 

I think Karen fits, even if it's offensive, because it immediately puts a picture in your head.

Deal with one, and "ok Karen", slaps them with the right amount of insult.

"Entitled upper middle class woman" just wouldn't cut it.

I see it no different with woke, or SJW, or snowflake.

Call an extreme progressive a MAGA conservative, and its on point, in the same way.

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I can predict your behavior too.   🤣

You'll start a debate, get into an argument, make up and mischaracterize something someone says, tell them they're lying when they point that out, then squawk and carry on about muffins, little guys and project about fragile egos.  

You've been doing it all day.  You'll do it tomorrow.  You'll do it 16 hours a day, multiple people will call you out for it, and you'll argue as long as somebody is paying attention to you.  🤡

LOL - sure kid    I know you have to tell yourself crap like that to get to sleep at night.

Sorry - i tell the truth and hold people to it. That's why you and a few others get so angry - you can't lie your way out of an argument with me, you can't bullshit, you can't pretend that 100-50 doesn't equal 50 and you can't stick your head in the sand and claim victory.  Sorry.

Everything i said about mike is true and i referenced his specific words more than once, no mischaracterizations at all. I notice you couldn't give any examples. You never can.

And everything I say about you and your arguments is also true    I know it drives you nuts

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I really don't understand this interest of people doing a long, multiple-page back and forth "You said this, no I didn't, you said that and I said the other thing. No, you said this and this and meant that."

Why the hell do you even care? Surely you don't enjoy it or think you can win any sort of applause from weary-eyed bystanders?

I doubt most people think there's anyone watching. I usually skip over replies where two people are engaged in a specific debate, sometimes something will catch my eye or whatever but it is what it is.

I seem to recall you going on a few multi pagers from time to time   just the way forums go.

[Moonbox]

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL - sure kid    I know you have to tell yourself crap like that to get to sleep at night.

These are the sorts of batshit thoughts I suppose someone might have if they spent 16 hours a day alone at their computer fighting on an internet forum like you do.  

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And everything I say about you and your arguments is also true    I know it drives you nuts

Fortunately for reality (and my ability to sleep at night 🙄), insisting and insisting on something doesn't make it true.  

Edited March 6, 2024 by Moonbox

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. I see it no different with woke, or SJW, or snowflake.

2. Call an extreme progressive a MAGA conservative, and its on point, in the same way.

1. Well it's somewhat different because a Ron DeSantis would use the term "woke"... So it's part of expanded dialogue of contemporary politics.  Not "Karen" so much.

2. I feel like I'm giving the term "woke" more legitimacy here, in the way I am looking for definitions and so on.  Sincere question: do you see the value in that use or is it primarily an insult as you see it?

[Legato]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well it's somewhat different because a Ron DeSantis would use the term "woke"... So it's part of expanded dialogue of contemporary politics.  Not "Karen" so much.

2. I feel like I'm giving the term "woke" more legitimacy here, in the way I am looking for definitions and so on.  Sincere question: do you see the value in that use or is it primarily an insult as you see it?

Woke can be used either way, depends on the context and subject matter.

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

These are the sorts of batshit thoughts I suppose someone might have if they spent 16 hours a day alone at their computer fighting on an internet forum like you do. 

And you manage them in far less time! well done - when it comes to batshit you're way more efficient than me

Quote

Fortunately for reality (and my ability to sleep at night 🙄), insisting and insisting on something doesn't make it true.

ROFLMAO!!!!! Your ENTIRE reality is based on insisting and insisting on something hoping it'll be true! LOL Thats like 95 percent of your time on this forum  

[Moonlight Graham]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Do you think that I lie, and use passive aggressive tactics though ?  I have concurred that I can be reluctant to pose an opinion sometimes, and my views are centrist or even status quo.
2. I don't want to frustrate people but do you actually think that causes people to suspect my methods ?   Do you think it's justified ?

1.  I honestly have no idea at this point.  I've considered the possibility on quite a few occasions though, but you deny it so i try to give you the benefit of the doubt.  You're a message board enigma.  At best I would say you can be evasive and hold your cards close to your chest, but are misunderstood.  Even where you fall on the political spectrum is enigmatic:  a self-described conservative whose many views seem mainstream progressive but just described themselves as a centrist.  You can start to see how people get confused.  Yes maybe you're mainly status quo.

2. Yes, because most other posters don't post like you, most wear their ideological biases on their sleeve and then consistenly argue for or against things based on that worldview.  We know CndFox is a conservative, and Treebeard plainly leans left, so you can confuse and frustrate people, myself included.  But again, maybe you try to stay above the fray on things and try to remain objective, like an academic would, rather than a pundit.  I have no idea really.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  I honestly have no idea at this point.  I've considered the possibility on quite a few occasions though, but you deny it so i try to give you the benefit of the doubt.  You're a message board enigma.  At best I would say you can be evasive and hold your cards close to your chest, but are misunderstood.  Even where you fall on the political spectrum is enigmatic:  a self-described conservative whose many views seem mainstream progressive but just described themselves as a centrist.  You can start to see how people get confused.  Yes maybe you're mainly status quo.

2. Yes, because most other posters don't post like you, most wear their ideological biases on their sleeve and then consistenly argue for or against things based on that worldview.  We know CndFox is a conservative, and Treebeard plainly leans left, so you can confuse and frustrate people, myself included.  But again, maybe you try to stay above the fray on things and try to remain objective, like an academic would, rather than a pundit.  I have no idea really.

Man  - if your yearbook photo doesn't say 'voted most likely to give someone benefit of the doubt' then a grave injustice has been done

I do admire your kind heart.

People say i have a kind heart too, ,but it's probably an entirely different kind.

[Moonlight Graham]

Is there a difference between "woke" and DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion)?  I think they're the same thing.

Joe Biden and Trudeau have been accused of woke appointments (e.g. Governor General), that's DEI.  Remember woke Scooby-Doo (brown Velma, black Shaggy)?  That's DEI.  "Woke" college admissions quotas for racial minorities (except Asians and Jews)?  That's DEI.  The Oscars are woke now, awards given based on DEI criteria.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Is there a difference between "woke" and DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion)?  I think they're the same thing.

Joe Biden and Trudeau have been accused of woke appointments (e.g. Governor General), that's DEI.  Remember woke Scooby-Doo (brown Velma, black Shaggy)?  That's DEI.  "Woke" college admissions quotas for racial minorities (except Asians and Jews)?  That's DEI.  The Oscars are woke now, awards given based on DEI criteria.

It depends - i would argue "woke" is when a left wing or 'social' idea is taken to an extreme

Is DEI woke? Not automatically - consider this, if the police department is hiring and wants to have more 'diverse' inclusion in their force so they decide they'll make a point of putting a recruiting ad in a publication that is geared towards a minority in the hopes of getting more recruits from that community for consideration - is that 'woke'? Probably not.  Is it woke if they say "white people can't apply for that job and we'll ONLY take minorities"? Yep.

I think what makes something woke is the extreme that it's taken to.  Are trans rights woke if we're talking about not getting beat up or being fired because you're trans? No - those  things are wrong.  Is trans rights woke if they demand men can give birth and you go to jail if you say different? Yeah -that's pretty woke.

 

[Zeitgeist]

To me woke is synonymous with identity politics, basically making value judgments against or for certain identity groups, creating winners and losers, based on superficial traits like race or gender.  Whenever I hear someone throw around the word inclusive, I usually don’t have to wait long before the same person starts talking about white privilege, white supremacy, hetero-normativity and other 2nd year Gender Studies or Feminism 101 pseudoscience.  When you hear the words equity and inclusion now, expect inequality and exclusion, because the game is labeling some groups victims and others oppressors based on superficial traits.  It’s a farce.  There are no white supremacist groups making political inroads or setting hiring policy. The only systemic racism left in large organizations, mid-large-sized businesses, and places of learning is DEI.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

Whatever else woke is, the amount of effort people put into freaking out about it pretty much puts them on par with Marjorie Taylor Greene and other Q-anon Karens.

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Whatever else woke is, the amount of effort people put into freaking out about it pretty much puts them on par with Marjorie Taylor Greene and other Q-anon Karens.

And this is a variation on the 'why are you making such a big deal of it' cheap debate trick the lefties love.

WE DEMAND GAY PORN FOR KIDS RIGHT NOW  AND WE DEMAND SEPERATE WASHROOMS FOR ALL THE 157 GENDERS AND WE DEMAND YOU USE OUR PRONOUNS OR GO TO JAIL FOR LIFE AND...

Hold it - we're not ok with all that! We have serious concenrs!

WHY ARE YOU MAKING SUCH A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT?!?!?!   LOL

 Hey - if this stuff is 'no big deal" and we shouldn't be fussing about then fine - pull the 'gay' books, cancel laws about misgendering, you go to the washroom of your biological birth and scrap diversity hiring.

Shouldn't be a problem right? I mean - why make  a big deal about it?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sincere question: do you see the value in that use or is it primarily an insult as you see it?

I see it like the word MAGA. I automatically will expect someone who is labeled that way to come across as a low IQ, inbred vibe having type of person. When I meet an articulate MAGA supporter, I am usually taken aback. The word to me, is synonymous with someone with a very low IQ to match their ignorance.

Same way I see the word woke. 

I will expect a person feeling they are more concerned about the environment than others, even though developing countries contribute to the bulk of the world's pollution, and trash you find in the ocean, such as the pacific garbage patch. 

I will expect someone to put more emphasis on how they feel, than being governed by factual evidence.

Little to no life experience, but has an worldview they feel they should push onto others.

Instead of empowering people, they prefer classifying people into victim groups, with white people being at the bottom of that food chain. 

I hear woke, I picture a SJW like mindset. Loud, low IQ and literally polar opposite to the MAGA crowd, but not being a good thing. 

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  I honestly have no idea at this point.  I've considered the possibility on quite a few occasions though, but you deny it so i try to give you the benefit of the doubt.  You're a message board enigma.  At best I would say you can be evasive and hold your cards close to your chest, but are misunderstood.  Even where you fall on the political spectrum is enigmatic:  a self-described conservative whose many views seem mainstream progressive but just described themselves as a centrist.  You can start to see how people get confused.  Yes maybe you're mainly status quo.

2. Yes, because most other posters don't post like you, most wear their ideological biases on their sleeve and then consistenly argue for or against things based on that worldview.  We know CndFox is a conservative, and Treebeard plainly leans left, so you can confuse and frustrate people, myself included.  But again, maybe you try to stay above the fray on things and try to remain objective, like an academic would, rather than a pundit.  I have no idea really.

1. I too am confused.  I post according to values and principles and don't follow any party line.  Lots of others don't align with a party on here.  And lots of conservatives, it seems, support trans rights so I wonder why I'm considered different than them.

I ask, and I get more scoffs than reasons back at me.

2. I think that I reject mob politics, team politics and knee jerk emotive reactions.  I also expect tough questions shouldn't have easy answers.  So questions like the trans bathroom quandary aren't helped by angry yelling and ad hominem statements.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

I see it like the word MAGA.

At first I thought this was a bad comparison, but then I realized that both words started as self descriptive terms, thereupon repurposed back at the groups mockingly.  

Another example of this being done is that Roman inscription on the cross INRI.  

As per my credo, I work in support of a public sphere.  So I add to your criticism by saying "Woke?  Great.  How are you going to make it happen, make everyone equal again?" Because there's 3 much flatter social hierarchy in a tribe.  There are no "groups".  And the other would be "MAGA? Great.  How are you going to make it happen, make the 1950s return but without prejudice?"

It's food for thought, good for thought...

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And lots of conservatives, it seems, support trans rights

Am in full support of trans rights, as are many conservatives. 

The disconnect, is on the language. Neopronouns, pronouns, etc. It has reached laughable levels, for some of these.

On some of the policies such as allowing say, a trans woman to compete in combat sports with biological women.

On how simple words like woman, have become "complicated". Gender.

Nobody should provide less rights to trans people, but trans rights should also not come at the expense of other groups which also face social challenges.

Also, many would be against laws which restrict freedoms.

I think you're mischaracterizing the issue most conservative people have with this movement.

50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

don't follow any party line.

Many don't follow party lines on this website. I have voted liberal all my life only recently going blue, but neither align with my views.

Liberals in Canada at least, have gone too far left for me to recognize the party anymore.

53 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I also expect tough questions shouldn't have easy answers.

Tough questions should apply to all political beliefs. 

It is not so, in our current political landscape.

55 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I wonder why I'm considered different than them.

You act holier than thou, yet will immerse yourself in tactics that are just as dirty as those you reject.

It would be like me having an Only Fans page, and looking down my nose at escorts who charge clients 300$ a pop. "Am above selling my body for that cheap!"

The ghetto in me, would want to remind such a woman that: "b****, you're still selling your a** on the internet!"

 

[Michael Hardner]

31 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Am in full support of trans rights, as are many conservatives. 

 

2. You act holier than thou, yet will immerse yourself in tactics that are just as dirty as those you reject.

 

1. The devil they say, is in the details.  As for you, You can listen to my acceptance of the criticism of being too quiet on things and explain exactly what that means in real terms. There are a lot of words out there that ridicule the woke mindset, but those words don't try to build a bridge in between woke and centrism. I'm quiet because I don't have any ideas, for example on the bathroom thing. Do you have any? Sincere question.

And I don't mean criticisms, I mean answers.  The rest of your post on this topic is about criticisms.

2. Personally, I have done a lot of explaining myself in this thread and it hasn't stopped people from repeating the same claims.  I don't know what I can say in response other than to deny, again. If you want to move on, so do I.

[Nationalist]

10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

These are the sorts of batshit thoughts I suppose someone might have if they spent 16 hours a day alone at their computer fighting on an internet forum like you do.  

Pot...meet Kettle.

10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Fortunately for reality (and my ability to sleep at night 🙄), insisting and insisting on something doesn't make it true.  

Ya about that. How's that little war going in Ukraine? Have the Ukrainians won yet? You have said they will and are winning many times. Have they rid the world of Big Bad Putin yet?

Do tell...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

There are a lot of words out there that ridicule the woke mindset

It should be ridiculed. Thats the point. 

I think we are on separate tangents regarding ridicule. I think some behavior should be ridiculed.

If a woman wants to hold a line at an electronics store, because she wants to return something without a receipt (demanding to be found in their system by name, no less like she was that important at a Wal-Mart), she deserves to be told: "look Karen, some of us need to go to work!".

Just like those who feel ridiculing others for saying there are two genders makes factual sense.

Like all American or Canadian systems politically are by design meant to keep black people in shackles, even though there are none.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm quiet because I don't have any ideas, for example on the bathroom thing. Do you have any? Sincere question.

Well, for my business for starters, I must have accessible entrances. 

I don't understand why the same isn't being thought of for those who are trans or non binary.

My washrooms aren't gendered. 

Its more complex, if changing large washroom areas, but you can efficiently make single stall washrooms gender neutral.

IE providing feminine hygiene products available, along with having a urinal along with the basic toilet stall. 

My doctor's clinic does this, and none of his toilets identify a single gender.

Some businesses simply make all their lockable toilets gender neutral. 

It becomes tricky, for toilet areas that are designed as walk in. 

I have seen malls put "family toilets" in those areas and invest on having lockable rooms all can use.

I am not a designer, so couldn't point to specifics, but if I want to add an entrance to my building, I must spend over 20 grand just to make it wheelchair friendly. 

I have to this day only had one disabled client enter.

It shouldn't matter, however.

Toilets shouldn't judge. You're s******g and p*****g in them for crying out loud. 

I don't know. I would focus on making my washrooms accessible to all. 

IE bars for those who are mobility limited, to feminine products, condoms, etc. 

I think the issue is the language around all of this. 

Am sorry, but I would be uncomfortable with a woman using washrooms I was in, just like I could understand a woman feeling threatened by being followed by what she feels is a male.

Worse even for public showers, where you're naked and vulnerable. 

Someone needs to grow a set, but also respect all parties. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

same claims.

I see it like this. If enough people tell me something am doing, just maybe I am doing it or may be giving off those vibes.

You don't have to agree, that's the beauty of free speech, but I am coming from a position of seeing the behavior, and mentioning it to you.

You're clearly not a troll, but come across as disingenuous in debate at times.

I see it like Trudeau debating. Never can get a straight answer, and the ones he gives literally skirt around the issue and misinterpret and divide in doing so. 

He's a politician. Its expected.

It just isn't if you're focused on adult debate, which both of us are clearly capable of.