Chicago School Board

[Fluffypants]

Voted unanimously to remove police from the schools. People applauding the move want their SRO budget to go to culinary arts and nursing programs. Which will be good because we will need people to feed all the news people and treat the injured and dying when they have their next gang fight or mass school shooting.

https://www.hpherald.com/evening_digest/chicago-board-of-education-unanimously-votes-to-remove-police-from-schools/article_d1910fc6-d2a9-11ee-b54f-bf76197eafa7.html

I don't have empathy for these cities anymore, they deserve every moment of pain they get.

Edited February 26 by Fluffypants

[herbie]

If you think police presence is required in schools you must be too dim to realize your society has already collapsed. Move to Gaza or Sudan where it's safer.

[Moonlight Graham]

32 minutes ago, herbie said:

If you think police presence is required in schools you must be too dim to realize your society has already collapsed. Move to Gaza or Sudan where it's safer.

I don't think they should be in every school, but some schools have problems with drugs, guns, knives, and gangs, both inside the school and from neighbouring schools.  Chicago has problems with these things.  It's also a problem to a lesser extent in some urban Canadian schools, like in parts of Toronto.

Teachers and vice principals have to deal with these things, and it's not exactly in their wheelhouse.  If there's criminal activity known to be happening in schools then they shouldn't be immune, and it protects the good kids.

Edited February 27 by Moonlight Graham

[August1991]

On 2/26/2024 at 6:51 PM, Fluffypants said:

Voted unanimously to remove police from the schools.

....

Fluffypants?

====

Last year, I was in Chicago. First time.

Like Toronto, on a lake/ocean, it is three-sided. (In Chicago, I could walk to the water. Toronto has an expressway.)

Edited March 27 by August1991

[I am Groot]

On 2/26/2024 at 7:40 PM, herbie said:

If you think police presence is required in schools you must be too dim to realize your society has already collapsed. Move to Gaza or Sudan where it's safer.

It didn't used to be when conservatives were in charge. Kids sat up straight and paid attention or got detention, and then yelled at by their parents. Now they curse out the teacher and getin fights in classrooms, and there isn't a thing the teacher can do about it. They're not even allowed to touch them, even to break up a fight. And you better believe the students know it, too.

Almost everyone who wants police removed from schools has no kids in those schools. Or else they do, but it's THEIR kids who terrorize the rest of the students and tell the teachers to F off. And when the school calls they tell the school to F off too, and call them racists to boot. 

Glen Loury went to school in South Chicago back in the sixties and talks about how good they were then. And now they're shit. Thomas Sowell says the same thing about the public schools he attended in Harlem in the 50s, and how terrible they are today. Both school boards spend a ton of money and get miserable results. Why? Because they're controlled by the Left, and operate under rules established by the Left. 

Edited March 29 by I am Groot

[gatomontes99]

I have a friend who's daughter is a huge lib...well....was. She worked as a councilor in a Chicago school. She can't take it any more. She's moving back to Texas. She put in her notice earlier in the school year. She was a Biden supporter, she's sitting this election out.

Liberalism is fine and dandy when it is a theory. In practice, it is hell.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

 

Liberalism is fine and dandy when it is a theory. In practice, it is hell.

From what I've read the schools are under funded.  Republicans and Democrats don't seem to be working on making things better.

[herbie]

37 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Republicans and Democrats don't seem to be working on making things better.

Better try electing some actual Socialists.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

From what I've read the schools are under funded.  Republicans and Democrats don't seem to be working on making things better.

Bullshit. Chicago spends over $29k per pupil to get these schools. New York City public education spends $31k per pupil per year and lots of their schools are crap too. But there's no discipline in the schools. Especially for black kids. Because the federal education department sent a warning/counseling letter to school boards warning them that if they expelled/suspended/disciplined black boys more than white or Asian boys they'd be considered racist and their federal grants would be withheld. 

But Black boys are most of the problem in schools. They're the ones raised without fathers and they're the ones committing the bullying and violence, not just to students but to teachers. 

The schools have been run by Democrats for decades. And the federal rules that hamper discipline (not to mention the progressive attitudes of local school boards) are what's responsible for these schools being garbage. It's liberalism/progressive attitudes that have so heavily damaged schools in both the US and Canada. 

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. Bullshit. Chicago spends over $29k per pupil to get these schools. New York City public education spends $31k per pupil per year and lots of their schools are crap too.

2. But there's no discipline in the schools. Especially for black kids. 

1. The resource equalization formula has been a fight for a long time in Chicago. So the money isn't distributed equally. 

2. That's a social problem.

As for the black kids assertion, I'm not going to go there because it's usually a fallacy ridden and flawed argument that's not interesting or productive.  

----

While I'm sympathetic to the law and order response to our current situation, the fact is we're not in the 1950s... We have a lot more ways to look at things.... A lot more stakeholders.... More opinions etc. And the whole world is different.

Nostalgic pining for a previous era tends to satisfy online forum entertainment needs, and doesn't usually get close to talking about real problems. 

My opinion... The real problem in the world, if you want to get simple about it, is poverty and lack of money.  If you have a solution to that one, I'm all ears.  

[August1991]

On 6/2/2024 at 5:36 PM, Michael Hardner said:

....

My opinion... The real problem in the world, if you want to get simple about it, is poverty and lack of money.  If you have a solution to that one, I'm all ears.  

Lack of money? Paper? The world lacks paper? WTF?

====

The world lacks skilled talent. For each human generation, we must teach so much.

No human is born with the ability to write/read. Do math. Take a derivative. We must teach each child calculus.

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

1. Lack of money? Paper? The world lacks paper? WTF?

2. The world lacks skilled talent.

3. For each human generation, we must teach so much.

4. No human is born with the ability to write/read. Do math. Take a derivative. We must teach each child calculus.

 

1. Money no longer has physical form.  This means it's theoretically unlimited.
2. For what ?  We have AI now.  We don't have to do anything.  I recommend the 1960 version of HG Wells' The Time Machine.  The protagonist visits the future and it's an apt description of where we are going.  The human race becomes the Eloi people.

"The Eloi are described as anatomically smaller than modern humans (standing roughly four feet tall), with shoulder-length curly hair, pointed chins, large eyes, small ears, small mouths with bright red thin lips, and sub-human intelligence. Their bodies are beautiful in appearance but surprisingly feeble. They do not perform much work, except to feed, play, and mate, and are characterized by apathy; when Weena falls into a river, none of the other Eloi move to help her (she is rescued instead by the Time Traveler). They live on a diet of fruits and vegetables, which may be cultivated for them by the Morlocks. Their language is described as "very sweet and liquid." The Eloi seem to dread only darkness and always sleep in droves within their "palaces". 

3. My son taught himself to read completely at 3, via apps on his tablet.  I had no idea he was doing it.

4. Our entire modern progress has been a project to counter the challenges to our existence - the bottom rows of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.  This means providing physical needs.  We now have to work on the top rows and stop pretending that we're poor.

[August1991]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:25 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Money no longer has physical form.  This means it's theoretically unlimited.
...

Michael.

I disagree. Money (paper promises) matters

[August1991]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:25 AM, Michael Hardner said:

3. My son taught himself to read completely at 3, via apps on his tablet.  I had no idea he was doing it.

4. Our entire modern progress has been a project to counter the challenges to our existence - the bottom rows of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.  This means providing physical needs.  We now have to work on the top rows and stop pretending that we're poor.

3. How did he do that?

4. Disagree.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

Michael.

I disagree. Money (paper promises) matters

Many of the great projects of human history were built without money. Easter Island was made without money.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

3. How did he do that?

4. Disagree.

3. Natural curiosity and a technology that was designed for and tested on tiny minds and hands.  We were shocked.

4. Do you disagree that hunger is increasing and China, which was under famine in our lifetimes, now has a billion people who want to show off a Rolex?

[Nationalist]

The evidence is obvious. The welfare programs have created entire generations of dependants. Ghettos full of fatherless kids with little to no stability. 

Why are the large cities lawless sh1tholes? The Great Society has lead to dispare and hatred.

Every school...every one...needs to have an armed cop patrolling it. A necessity brought to you by demented, racist policies of the liberal mind.

[User]

On 6/2/2024 at 2:38 PM, Michael Hardner said:

From what I've read the schools are under funded.  Republicans and Democrats don't seem to be working on making things better.

Underfunded? As compared to what, where?

Last time I checked, the US spends more on public schools than most other industrialized countries with far worse results. Public schools get huge sums of money. This is always the argument from the left here, that they need more $$$. There is never enough for them. 

 

[User]

On 2/26/2024 at 6:40 PM, herbie said:

If you think police presence is required in schools you must be too dim to realize your society has already collapsed. Move to Gaza or Sudan where it's safer.

Depends on the circumstances. We currently have an issue with school shootings being somewhat of a social contagion, and the political left thinks schools are magical places that should be gun-free zones... which leaves our children defenseless inside, and school shooters are able to kill many with no resistance.

So, now you want to ensure that no one is there to help protect the kids from bad people?

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, User said:

Underfunded? As compared to what, where?

Last time I checked, the US spends more on public schools than most other industrialized countries with far worse results. Public schools get huge sums of money. This is always the argument from the left here, that they need more $$$. There is never enough for them. 

 

I was basing my comment on a New York Times article that talked about a funding debacle from a long time ago, recently updated. And it was in Chicago. 

I think there are obvious reasons for poor performance in poor areas, mostly social. 

 

But I also feel like this is so complicated that it's it can't be separated from a values discussion. Basically people are hurting, are we going to do something? How are we going to decide? How are we going to see if it's working? 

That's politics.

[herbie]

5 hours ago, User said:

We currently have an issue with school shootings being somewhat of a social contagion,

Which people simply refuse to recognize is due to unlimited access to guns. Sp you react to the symptom rather than the cause.

Edited June 10 by herbie

[User]

5 hours ago, herbie said:

Which people simply refuse to recognize is due to unlimited access to guns. Sp you react to the symptom rather than the cause.

We do not have unlimited access to guns. There are thousands of firearms regulations and restrictions. 

We have a Second Amendment right to gun ownership, and that is not changing anytime soon. So, lawful gun ownership is a reality. I choose to live in reality. 

Children get massacred in schools around the world with or without guns. I choose to want to see them protected not just from this but from other forms of school violence as well. 

[herbie]

You just made my very point with your reply.

[User]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

You just made my very point with your reply.

How so? 

[reason10]

On 6/2/2024 at 3:38 PM, Michael Hardner said:

From what I've read the schools are under funded.  Republicans and Democrats don't seem to be working on making things better.

You're probably the thousandth person I've run into who doesn't understand this issue. I'll number the points:

1.  Federal government funding of education is 7 percent. Democrats and Republicans at the federal level have the least to say.

2. The LARGEST amount of funding for education is done at the COUNTY level. 

3. This county money is from property taxes.

4. Schools are funded at different levels. Example: Seminole County in Florida has very RICH schools because affluent neighborhoods like Heathrow and Sweetwater Oaks have homes upwards to over a million dollars each.  More tax money is collected. Next door, Orange County isn't quite so rich, and has some rough inner city schools where some bathrooms have been taken over by gangs. I used to sub in Orange county (before finally moving OUT of that hellhole) and I've seen some real sh!t.

5. The quality of the school isn't always indexed to how expensive the school is. One of the best elementary schools I've ever subbed at is in the middle of a very rough GHETTO welfare state neighborhood. The kids (all races) are all very well behaved because the principal demands it. By contrast, there's an elementary school in a neighborhood with saltwater canal homes where the kids run wild and there's very little discipline. It's not always about the money or the neighborhood. It's usually about the principal, since it is always the principal who sets the tone and the environment of the individual school.

6.  There are some poorer counties who are losing teachers because the low property tax collections aren't paying teachers enough for them to be able to afford to buy a house. This is probably universal throughout the country. I just mention Florida schools because they are the best in the country.