I am Groot Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 The piece quoted cites recent Abacus and Leger polls on immigration. Remarkably, Canadians seem to be in agreement at every age group, in every province, and from every political party, among both immigrants and Canadian born that there is too much immigration. Most of those think there is WAY too much immigration. And the majority also feel immigrants are contributing negatively to everything from crime to cost of living and congestion. Despite this, Canada's immigration ministers says there is no question of lowering immigration. Do the Liberals have a suicide wish? https://dominionreview.ca/abacus-poll-shows-canadian-immigration-attitudes-hardening/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, I am Groot said: The piece quoted cites recent Abacus and Leger polls on immigration. Remarkably, Canadians seem to be in agreement at every age group, in every province, and from every political party, among both immigrants and Canadian born that there is too much immigration. Most of those think there is WAY too much immigration. And the majority also feel immigrants are contributing negatively to everything from crime to cost of living and congestion. Despite this, Canada's immigration ministers says there is no question of lowering immigration. Do the Liberals have a suicide wish? https://dominionreview.ca/abacus-poll-shows-canadian-immigration-attitudes-hardening/ I posted almost an identical post a month or so ago - and it's just gotten worse since then. Part of the problem is the libs have badly damaged the economy and bringing in immigrants keeps it from collapsing in the short term. In the long term it's bad and we're seeing some of those effects but they can't figure out how to stop - if they just shut it down then their economy will start to collapse and they'll be blamed for that too. But i think a big part of it is justin. HE's driving this with his friends at the century initiative and he just doesn't care. He wants the 'virtue points' for after he's not prime minister any more. I think he knows he won't win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 27 minutes ago, I am Groot said: The piece quoted cites recent Abacus and Leger polls on immigration. Remarkably, Canadians seem to be in agreement at every age group, in every province, and from every political party, among both immigrants and Canadian born that there is too much immigration. Most of those think there is WAY too much immigration. And the majority also feel immigrants are contributing negatively to everything from crime to cost of living and congestion. Despite this, Canada's immigration ministers says there is no question of lowering immigration. Do the Liberals have a suicide wish? https://dominionreview.ca/abacus-poll-shows-canadian-immigration-attitudes-hardening/ Immigration in Canada is literally a policy of sustaining growth, because unless Canadians start having more kids, the country will rely on immigration to maintain itself. That’s why it’s time to get back to the traditional big multigenerational family like the grand days of yore. “Go forth and multiply.” That way we can maintain our own values with our own people’s interests in mind. Only then, with that level of independent strength and prosperity, will Canada be taken seriously as an ideal example to the world. It means we have to respect and support people: much better healthcare, free speech, families thriving because they have a healthy balanced life of work, play, responsibilities. We have an affordability crisis. Edited February 16 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 15 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I posted almost an identical post a month or so ago - and it's just gotten worse since then. Part of the problem is the libs have badly damaged the economy and bringing in immigrants keeps it from collapsing in the short term. In the long term it's bad and we're seeing some of those effects but they can't figure out how to stop - if they just shut it down then their economy will start to collapse and they'll be blamed for that too. But i think a big part of it is justin. HE's driving this with his friends at the century initiative and he just doesn't care. He wants the 'virtue points' for after he's not prime minister any more. I think he knows he won't win. The Century Initiative is the recipe for losing a Canada that balances the natural and the human world. You don’t want the developable part of Canada to be one long megacity, which is basically what that initiative does, unless people move north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 2 hours ago, I am Groot said: The piece quoted cites recent Abacus and Leger polls on immigration. Remarkably, Canadians seem to be in agreement at every age group, in every province, and from every political party, among both immigrants and Canadian born that there is too much immigration. Most of those think there is WAY too much immigration. And the majority also feel immigrants are contributing negatively to everything from crime to cost of living and congestion. Despite this, Canada's immigration ministers says there is no question of lowering immigration. Do the Liberals have a suicide wish? https://dominionreview.ca/abacus-poll-shows-canadian-immigration-attitudes-hardening/ This is common sense. Bringing in 350,000-400,000 people works to offset our ageing demographics. Bringing in 1.2 million/year is just going to strain our entire economy, housing, health care, and infrastructure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 11 hours ago, CdnFox said: I posted almost an identical post a month or so ago - and it's just gotten worse since then. Part of the problem is the libs have badly damaged the economy and bringing in immigrants keeps it from collapsing in the short term. The economy is what it is. All this mass of immigrants and foreign workers does is pretend it's better for the statistics. The GNP continues to rise, albeit very much less than down south where they have almost no immigrants compared to us - but GNP per person shows that we're getting poorer not wealthier, as a nation. Without the steady flow of newcomers the GDP would be negative and we would officially be in recession. But even with them, realistically, we ARE in a recession. Jobs are not easy to come by, unemployment is rising as companies lay people off, and people are finding it harder and harder to make ends meet. Many of them can't. So the flood of newcomers doesn't so much change that as hide it. Because, as always, this is the style over substance government. 11 hours ago, CdnFox said: But i think a big part of it is justin. HE's driving this with his friends at the century initiative and he just doesn't care. He wants the 'virtue points' for after he's not prime minister any more. I think he knows he won't win. It would be interesting to see just what he does when he's unemployed. I suspect he'll be offered a number of very well-paid directorships by some of the big companies, none of which he's actually qualified for, and be paid big money to do little or nothing as a reward for favors done in office. That's how the game is played, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Immigration in Canada is literally a policy of sustaining growth, because unless Canadians start having more kids, the country will rely on immigration to maintain itself. Right now we're at the point where immigration is discouraging couples from having children. Immigration is a ponzi scheme, in any event, because the more you grow the more immigrants you need to sustain that growth. Right now, Canada is growing faster than anywhere in the G20. It's not necessary to have this many people coming in to sustain growth. And that is not the point of immigration anyway. It might have been a century ago but it stopped being the point around the 1970s. There was another article on that site that I read which is an interesting summary of how immigration morphed around the 1970s into a political program designed more to improve the political fortunes of the party in power than to improve or help Canada. https://dominionreview.ca/did-canada-ever-really-have-an-immigration-consensus/ Edited February 16 by I am Groot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, I am Groot said: 1. GNP continues to rise, albeit very much less than down south where they have almost no immigrants compared to us - but GNP per person shows that we're getting poorer not wealthier, as a nation. 2. It would be interesting to see just what he does when he's unemployed... 10 minutes ago, I am Groot said: 3. Right now we're at the point where immigration is discouraging couples from having children. 4. Immigration is a ponzi scheme, in any event, because the more you grow the more immigrants you need to sustain that growth. Right now, Canada is growing faster than anywhere in the G20. It's not necessary to have this many people coming in to sustain growth. And that is not the point of immigration anyway. It might have been a century ago but it stopped being the point around the 1970s. Mostly good analysis, thanks. Also you are going fact-based which is great and the way of the future. I have some nitpicks: 1. Canada vs US is very much apples-to-oranges on many levels. Also GNP per person doesn't address how the per-person is being distributed. GNP per capita is higher in Hong Kong than Canada but income equality is near the bottom of the scale there. 2. Why would it be ? Only if you have some personal interest in seeing him doing poorly I suppose. None of the living former PMs is doing anything interesting. The ones that I despised, I stopped thinking about after they lost the election. 3. Ummm... probably a stretch there. Birth rate has been declining steadily and JT probably didn't change that trend for the worse, or better for that matter. 4. "the more you grow" isn't about immigration it's about the economy. The powers that be believe that more population equals bigger economy. See if Poilievre makes significant changes to that and we'll check in again on this one. I agree that there's a political aspect to it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 3. Ummm... probably a stretch there. Birth rate has been declining steadily and JT probably didn't change that trend for the worse, or better for that matter. Maybe not directly, but immigration has made housing more expensive and out of reach for the age groups that typically have babies. Very few people have babies on purpose when they're living month to month out of a basement or studio apartment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaétan Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Polls are a reflection of influencers' propaganda and their results are not necessarily what we should follow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 5 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Maybe not directly, but immigration has made housing more expensive and out of reach for the age groups that typically have babies. Very few people have babies on purpose when they're living month to month out of a basement or studio apartment. The housing issue certainly hasn't made things easier for families but it's more of an issue of "one more thing". Look at Japan with effectively zero immigration and real estate prices also going up. There's more to it than population, although I do think that cutting immigration would pop the speculation bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: The housing issue certainly hasn't made things easier for families but it's more of an issue of "one more thing". Yes, but spiking immigration is "one more thing" that made the situation worse. 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Look at Japan with effectively zero immigration and real estate prices also going up. There's more to it than population, although I do think that cutting immigration would pop the speculation bubble. Japan's real estate prices nosedived for 30 years, and only recently started to (slowly) start growing again. Even then, it's focused on their big global cities, with lots of foreign capital investing in it for exposure in what they see as a safer, more stable doorway to the Asia Pacific. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, Moonbox said: .. lots of foreign capital investing in it for exposure in what they see as a safer, more stable doorway to the Asia Pacific. This is more on-the-nose for me to explain real estate prices, as global capital looks for places to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: This is more on-the-nose for me to explain real estate prices, as global capital looks for places to go. Also a problem here. Immigration is making the problem worse, but things like foreign study permits acting as doorways for rich asian families to send their kids here, buy them houses that subsequently sit empty as speculative assets once they're done schooling etc all makes the supply problem worse. We're quickly heading to a situation where home ownership is out of reach for even the average (not just poor) Canadian, with REITs and wealthy landlords control supply like manor lords. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 5 hours ago, I am Groot said: It would be interesting to see just what he does when he's unemployed. I suspect he'll be offered a number of very well-paid directorships by some of the big companies, none of which he's actually qualified for, and be paid big money to do little or nothing as a reward for favors done in office. That's how the game is played, after all. Quite likely - most likely 'charity' organizations which will pay him big bucks. Amusingly there's a hell of a lot of money to be made from poverty. And he'll do the speaking tours. Before his time in gov't he was getting 10 - 15 grand per speaking event. Now for those who still love his hair and sunny ways he'll proably get closer to 30 - 40 grand an event at least. You only have to do a couple of those a month to pay the bills. Plus - he qualifies for the gov't pension which is huge money for the rest of his life and i believe he can take it from 55 on. So that's another 300 plus thousand a year. He'll make millions. And laugh at the people of canada for the rest of his life for providing his life of luxury while he burned the country down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Immigration in Canada is literally a policy of sustaining growth, because unless Canadians start having more kids, the country will rely on immigration to maintain itself. That’s why it’s time to get back to the traditional big multigenerational family like the grand days of yore. “Go forth and multiply.” That way we can maintain our own values with our own people’s interests in mind. Only then, with that level of independent strength and prosperity, will Canada be taken seriously as an ideal example to the world. It means we have to respect and support people: much better healthcare, free speech, families thriving because they have a healthy balanced life of work, play, responsibilities. We have an affordability crisis. I'm perfectly happy to live amongst the Punjabi Sikhs an ultra conservative, devoutly religious, warrior caste far more British than the Marxist Leninist lunatics being born & raised in this land now Jo Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 7 hours ago, Moonbox said: Also a problem here. Immigration is making the problem worse, but things like foreign study permits acting as doorways for rich asian families to send their kids here, buy them houses that subsequently sit empty as speculative assets once they're done schooling etc all makes the supply problem worse. We're quickly heading to a situation where home ownership is out of reach for even the average (not just poor) Canadian, with REITs and wealthy landlords control supply like manor lords. I hear the january housing starts were down yet again. So it doesn't look like things will improve any time soon . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 23 hours ago, I am Groot said: Right now we're at the point where immigration is discouraging couples from having children. Immigration is a ponzi scheme, in any event, because the more you grow the more immigrants you need to sustain that growth. Right now, Canada is growing faster than anywhere in the G20. It's not necessary to have this many people coming in to sustain growth. And that is not the point of immigration anyway. It might have been a century ago but it stopped being the point around the 1970s. There was another article on that site that I read which is an interesting summary of how immigration morphed around the 1970s into a political program designed more to improve the political fortunes of the party in power than to improve or help Canada. https://dominionreview.ca/did-canada-ever-really-have-an-immigration-consensus/ That’s definitely true. Also, US immigration levels are below ours yet their GDP per person exceeds our significantly. I won’t even get into the productivity gap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: That’s definitely true. Also, US immigration levels are below ours yet their GDP per person exceeds our significantly. I won’t even get into the productivity gap. I don't think it's a case of "and yet" theirs exceeds ours - i think their GDP per capita exceeds ours BECAUSE of it. No matter how you slice it a new adult immigrant is not going to earn the same money as a person of similar age who was born here. They don't have the same ties, they don't have the same work record, their credentials may not count here or may need to be upgraded, etc etc. BUT - they consume the same amount in gov't services. THat means we collect a lot less tax for the services we have to provide and so either we provide less service or we have to overtax and that hurts the economy. The end result is the same - our gdp per capita goes down and our quality of life goes with it. There's only so many immigrants you can bring in at a time before it overwhelms your systems and has a negative impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: That’s definitely true. Also, US immigration levels are below ours yet their GDP per person exceeds our significantly. I won’t even get into the productivity gap. at the zenith of the British Empire, five thousand Britons ruled over one hundred million Indians India is in fact an entirely British construct therein so demographics are not actually the deciding factor as to the supremacy of God & the rule of law to wit, what are these Indians seeking by leaving the Subcontinent for the protection of the British Crown ? why are they coming here ? no, it's not economic, because they would all prosper far more in America why do they come to British North America, choosing that over & above the American republic ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 39 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I don't think it's a case of "and yet" theirs exceeds ours - i think their GDP per capita exceeds ours BECAUSE of it. No matter how you slice it a new adult immigrant is not going to earn the same money as a person of similar age who was born here. They don't have the same ties, they don't have the same work record, their credentials may not count here or may need to be upgraded, etc etc. BUT - they consume the same amount in gov't services. THat means we collect a lot less tax for the services we have to provide and so either we provide less service or we have to overtax and that hurts the economy. The end result is the same - our gdp per capita goes down and our quality of life goes with it. There's only so many immigrants you can bring in at a time before it overwhelms your systems and has a negative impact. True, and it drives down wages and takes jobs from the people already here, especially with EDI policies giving special employment points on the basis of race or ethnicity. Basically we’re damaging our living standards and quality of life to appease foreigners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 On 2/15/2024 at 10:17 PM, Zeitgeist said: Only then, with that level of independent strength and prosperity, will Canada be taken seriously as an ideal example to the world. ah, those were the days 1967 to 2007 between the Centenary Expo & Global Financial Crisis the Goldilocks Zone Generation X blessed by the zenith of our civilization from the Strait of Georgia, to Acadia, to Toronto the Good no surprise we are now the most conservative generation of all therein Dileas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: ah, those were the days 1967 to 2007 between the Centenary Expo & Global Financial Crisis the Goldilocks Zone Generation X blessed by the zenith of our civilization from the Strait of Georgia, to Acadia, to Toronto the Good no surprise we are now the most conservative generation of all therein Dileas I’d even go a few years past 2007 as we mostly avoided that crisis in Canada, an era of Canadian strength that has been squandered by Post-National State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Just now, Zeitgeist said: I’d even go a few years past 2007 as we mostly avoided that crisis in Canada, an era of Canadian strength that has been squandered by Post-National State. my father died in 2008 The 48th Highlanders came to his funeral on Roncevalles Ave, lined up outside the funeral home on the street led by the RSM in the wake, my wife demanded that we leave Toronto and I agreed, it was time to leave as I foresaw the current state of affairs coming to pass in real time Recce Owns The Night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: my father died in 2008 The 48th Highlanders came to his funeral on Roncevalles Ave, lined up outside the funeral home on the street led by the RSM in the wake, my wife demanded that we leave Toronto and I agreed, it was time to leave as I foresaw the current state of affairs coming to pass in real time Recce Owns The Night Well you’re in Western Ontario by the Mennonites and the cities founded along the Galt railway: Cambridge, K-W, Guelph. That’s one of the best parts of Canada: strong work ethic, traditional values, cutting edge technology and universities, glorious pastures… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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