myata Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 The Republicans who let their rotten leadership betray every claim and principle of defending freedom, only to play into the glory aspirations of the lying buffoon will have their names written into the history books. Of shame. For perpetuity, or as long as the democracy lasts. This is not just political games, not just another election. The freedom of people who put their lives and future on the line is at stake and you're choosing to play with it, and betray it with empty, pathetic and meaningless, lying rhetoric. The history won't be fooled as a mindless cheering mob. Your names will go into it. As you know. Think of it now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 Because they insist on tying it to biden's open-border policy. And biden does that knowingly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 No lying weasel words will fool the history. They're are playing with America's pledge and commitment to freedom, nothing less and for no other cause than to gratify a lying buffoon who is full of his own sh*t and admiration for dictator thugs that he has expressed publicly, and not once. And this is exactly how they will be remembered. There will be no explanations and no excuses. Absolutely, their lies should be called and exposed for everyone to see what they are. No way anyone dumb or duplicitous could claim and pretend that they didn't know what kind of sh*t they were stepping into this time. Not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) 12 minutes ago, myata said: No lying weasel words will fool the history. They're are playing with America's pledge and commitment to freedom, nothing less and for no other cause than to gratify a lying buffoon who is full of his own sh*t and admiration for dictator thugs that he has expressed publicly, and not once. And this is exactly how they will be remembered. There will be no explanations and no excuses. Absolutely, their lies should be called and exposed for everyone to see what they are. No way anyone dumb or duplicitous could claim and pretend that they didn't know what kind of sh*t they were stepping into this time. Not a chance. What lying words? CdnFox is not lying when he says they included legislation for other things they want pushed through that are unacceptable to certain elements on the right. That is typically how these bills are presented. I suspect there are more than a few government leaders, on both side, who oppose the idea of limitless funding for this war and don't mind finding a reason for it to stop. The real lying words are Joe Biden -"We are going to support you, for as loooooong as it takes." Edited February 4 by OftenWrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: What lying words? CdnFox is not lying when he says they included legislation for other things they want pushed through that are unacceptable to certain elements on the right. That is typically how these bills are presented. I suspect there are more than a few government leaders, on both side, who oppose the idea of limitless funding for this war and don't mind finding a reason for it to stop. The real lying words are Joe Biden -"We are going to support you, for as loooooong as it takes." As looooong as it takes to help Ukrainians save their independence makes a lot more sense than the 20+ years in Afghanistan and Iraq with Bush 2's phoney wars. Edited February 4 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 2 minutes ago, Aristides said: As looooong as it takes to help Ukrainians save their independence makes a lot more sense than the 20+ years in Afghanistan and Iraq with Bush 2's phoney wars. I'm sure the US establishment's fondness for forever wars appeals to the likes of you, people who buy into the party line without question. So I will never convince you that you're being lied to. Would not want to wake you people up from your safe, comfortable dreams. Meanwhile in those far away lands that lay in ruin thanks to US superpower hegemony, the people being bombed into the stone age for ideological "democracy" may have a very different opinion. We may never hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, OftenWrong said: I'm sure the US establishment's fondness for forever wars appeals to the likes of you, people who buy into the party line without question. So I will never convince you that you're being lied to. Would not want to wake you people up from your safe, comfortable dreams. Meanwhile in those far away lands that lay in ruin thanks to US superpower hegemony, the people being bombed into the stone age for ideological "democracy" may have a very different opinion. We may never hear it. Right now Ukraine being bombed into oblivion and it isn't the US that is doing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Aristides said: Right now Ukraine being bombed into oblivion and it isn't the US that is doing it. They provided the funding and instigated the social unrest that lead to the removal of Yanukovich, by dividing the populace. This war was a few years in the making, by political subversion. That is how we roll these days. Edited February 4 by OftenWrong 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 The Republicans are getting ever closer to becoming a place with no heart and no principles. Worshiping the lying Idol as the only remaining claim to existence. The political game can be catchy and it's not always clear where it's going, but there are those with hearts of stone and cold, slippery minds that will take you all the way: beyond all lines of no return. If you cannot or wouldn't matters not think and act for yourself; what you think, decide and believe in. That is their game, and their purpose. Do you have yours? Your principles? Your integrity? Your pledges and your heart? In the times like these there will be no prescribed excuses. The question is set by the Time itself and your answers are recorded for the posterity. Make no mistakes about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: They provided the funding and instigated the social unrest that lead to the removal of Yanukovich, by dividing the populace. This war was a few years in the making, by political subversion. That is how we roll these days. Yanukovich was a corrupt Putin puppet who fled to Russia when Ukrainians finally gave him the boot. Quote Yanukovych was ranked the least popular president in Ukraine's independent history. Yanukovych has also given his name to a collective term for blunders made by Ukrainian politicians: Yanukisms.[30] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 3 minutes ago, Aristides said: Yanukovich was a corrupt Putin puppet who fled to Russia when Ukrainians finally gave him the boot. Your post-Ukrainian war revisionism does not phase me. Yanukovich was voted as president in an election deemed fair by outside observers at the time. In the following wlection two years later, his party won by what was called a landslide victory. But since he chose not to sign an agreement to join a free-trade partnership with europe, claiming he did not feel Ukraine's economy was ready for it YET, he became the enemy of globalists and US imperialists. They funded the opposition movement that eventually led to his ouster to the tune US $5 billion. Quick now, go and google some more links. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) 19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Your post-Ukrainian war revisionism does not phase me. Yanukovich was voted as president in an election deemed fair by outside observers at the time. In the following wlection two years later, his party won by what was called a landslide victory. But since he chose not to sign an agreement to join a free-trade partnership with europe, claiming he did not feel Ukraine's economy was ready for it YET, he became the enemy of globalists and US imperialists. They funded the opposition movement that eventually led to his ouster to the tune US $5 billion. Quick now, go and google some more links. I'm not the one engaging in revisionism. He was rotten to the core and Ukrainians finally gave him the boot. Quote Yanukovych had an estimated net worth of $12 billion, and has been accused by Ukrainian officials of misappropriating funds from Ukraine's treasury. Arseniy Yatsenyuk has claimed that treasury funds of up to $70 billion were transferred to foreign accounts during Yanukovych's presidency. By January 2013, more than half of the ministers appointed by Yanukovych were either born in the Donbas region or made some crucial part of their careers there, and Yanukovych has been accused of "regional cronyism" for his staffing of police, judiciary, and tax services "all over Ukraine" with "Donbas people".[174] Over 46% of the budget subventions for social and economic development was allotted to the Donbas region's Donetsk Oblast and Luhansk Oblast administrations – ₴0.62 billion ($76.2 million) versus ₴0.71 billion ($87.5 million) for the rest of the country. Anders Åslund, a Swedish economist and Ukraine analyst, described the consolidation of Ukrainian economic power in the hands of a few "elite industrial tycoons", one of the richest and most influential of whom has become President Yanukovych's own son Oleksandr Yanukovych. The exact distribution of wealth and precise weight of influence are difficult to gauge, but most of the country's richest men were afraid to cross the Yanukovich family, even in cases where their own economic interests favored an economically pro-EU Ukraine.[170] The Yanukovych family, a group of young businessmen described as "robber capitalists", have been buying up both public and private businesses at "rock bottom" prices available in the stagnating economic conditions brought on by Yanukovych's economic policies."[176] According to Åslund, one notable exception to the Yanukovych family's influence was Petro Poroshenko, who is described as "uncommonly courageous", although his confectionery empire is less susceptible to ruin by the substantial power the Yanukovych family wielded in the heavy industry sectors located in Yanukovych's geographic power base of Donetsk.[170] During the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych, at least 7,000 Ukrainian companies were attacked by the oligarchic clan of Yanukovych (the so-called "Yanukovych Families"). This number includes both cases of the so-called Family entering the corporate rights of the firms they like by illegal methods, and "assaults" in order to obtain "tribute" – that is, commercial gain. This is evidenced by the data of the Anti-Raider Union of Entrepreneurs of Ukraine. The victims of Yanukovych's raider methods were offered to pay a regular "tribute" in the amount of 30–50% of the company's profits – or to cede ownership of it. According to an April 2014 poll conducted by the Razumkov Centre, only 4.9% of respondents would have liked to see Yanukovych return to the presidency. Quote Yanukovych abandoned his large estate, Mezhyhirya,[178] when he fled the capital. The estate is located in a former forest preserve on the outskirts of Kyiv. He had acquired the property in 2007, according to critics, through a convoluted series of companies and transactions. Yanukovych did not reveal the price he paid, although he called it a "very serious price". Mezhyhirya is estimated to have been sold for more than 75 million U.S. dollars. In a feature with photos on Yanukovych's Mezhyhirya mansion, Sergii Leshchenko notes "For most of [Yanukovych's] career he was a public servant or parliament deputy, where his salary never exceeded 2000 US dollars per month." Under a photo showing the new home's ornate ceiling, Leschenko remarks, "In a country where 35% of the population live under poverty line, spending 100,000 dollars on each individual chandelier seems excessive, to say the least." Crowned with a pure copper roof, the mansion was the largest wooden structure ever created by Finnish log home builder Honka, whose representative suggested to Yanukovych that it be nominated for the Guinness Book of Records.[9] The property contained a private zoo, underground shooting range, 18-hole golf course, tennis, and bowling. After describing the mansion's complicated ownership scheme, the article author noted, "The story of Viktor Yanukovych and his residence highlights a paradox. Having completely rejected such European values as human rights and democracy, the Ukrainian president uses Europe as a place to hide his dirty money with impunity."[9] Documents recovered from Yanukovych's compound show among other expenses $800 medical treatment for fish, $14,500 spent on tablecloths, and a nearly 42 million dollar order for light fixtures. Also recovered were files on Yanukovych's perceived enemies, especially media members, including beating victim Tetyana Chornovol. The cost of monitoring the mass media was reportedly $5.7 million just for the month of December 2010.[180] When the former president departed, 35 cars and seven motorbikes were left behind. Kyiv's District Court seized 27 vintage cars in 2016 from the fleet stationed at Mezhyhirya, some worth more than $US 1 million. Yanukovych told BBC Newsnight (in June 2015) that stories that Mezhyhirya cost the Ukrainian taxpayer millions of dollars were "political technology and spin" and that the estate did not belong to him personally; he claimed that the ostriches in the residence's petting zoo "just happened to be there"[181] and remarked "I supported the ostriches, what’s wrong with that?". Edited February 4 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 It’s so sad to see the level of propaganda in this thread, and how badly some are being duped. Has your propaganda told you how many billions have been sent to Ukraine? Let’s make it simple. How many billions have been sent by the US alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 The answer is simple: if you won't give some money, a fraction of the defense budget to fight Putin and his likes elsewhere, they will come to your doorstep. Why wouldn't they: they always do when they smell weakness, fear and indecision. And what will it cost you then? Not in dollars, that other currency: thousands, tens, thousands? One only needs a working memory to know it. Such a precious asset in some groups, these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 45 minutes ago, myata said: The answer is simple: if you won't give some money, a fraction of the defense budget to fight Putin and his likes elsewhere, they will come to your doorstep. Why wouldn't they: they always do when they smell weakness, fear and indecision. And what will it cost you then? Not in dollars, that other currency: thousands, tens, thousands? One only needs a working memory to know it. Such a precious asset in some groups, these days. And the answer for American aid is: 180 billion. That they had to borrow to send, and the war is lost. Stop reading your propaganda, it’s telling you complete lies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 Why couldn't you ever get the facts right? This is the information age. What could go wrong? The U.S. aid to Ukraine 7 minutes ago, sharkman said: the war is lost. In what f-ing alternate reality? What color is the seventh moon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 3 hours ago, OftenWrong said: They provided the funding and instigated the social unrest that lead to the removal of Yanukovich, by dividing the populace. This war was a few years in the making, by political subversion. That is how we roll these days. You are iGNORANT of the HISTORY. Yanukovych AND Putin instigated the social unrest that led to HIS REMOVAL. Yanukovych had his Berkut police KILL HUNDREDS of peaceful protesters in Maidan. See: Winter on Fire: Ukraine's Fight for Freedom | Full Feature | Netflix 2 hours ago, sharkman said: It’s so sad to see the level of propaganda in this thread, and how badly some are being duped. Has your propaganda told you how many billions have been sent to Ukraine? Let’s make it simple. How many billions have been sent by the US alone? What is your gold standard for news that gives you ONLY the truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Your post-Ukrainian war revisionism does not phase me. Yanukovich was voted as president in an election deemed fair by outside observers at the time. In the following wlection two years later, his party won by what was called a landslide victory. But since he chose not to sign an agreement to join a free-trade partnership with europe, claiming he did not feel Ukraine's economy was ready for it YET, he became the enemy of globalists and US imperialists. They funded the opposition movement that eventually led to his ouster to the tune US $5 billion. Quick now, go and google some more links. Yanukovych was BRIBED by Putin to sign a trade deal with Russia INSTEAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 5 hours ago, OftenWrong said: The real lying words are Joe Biden -"We are going to support you, for as loooooong as it takes." No, that's America simply talking loud and clear as always. But of course the best example of America's lack of courage and conviction is when HW Bush told Iraqis to rise up against Saddam after chasing him and his invading army out of Kuwait. Big mistake. Taking America at it's word has always been a fickle business, especially when it comes to bloodthirsty dictators. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) 3 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Your post-Ukrainian war revisionism does not phase me. Yanukovich was voted as president in an election deemed fair by outside observers at the time. In the following wlection two years later, his party won by what was called a landslide victory. But since he chose not to sign an agreement to join a free-trade partnership with europe, claiming he did not feel Ukraine's economy was ready for it YET, he became the enemy of globalists and US imperialists. They funded the opposition movement that eventually led to his ouster to the tune US $5 billion. Quick now, go and google some more links. Hitler was elected too. So was Putin and just about every other despot when they first came to power. Your head down a hole revisionism doesn't impress me either. Edited February 4 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 39 minutes ago, robosmith said: You are iGNORANT of the HISTORY. Yanukovych AND Putin instigated the social unrest that led to HIS REMOVAL. Yanukovych had his Berkut police KILL HUNDREDS of peaceful protesters in Maidan. See: Winter on Fire: Ukraine's Fight for Freedom | Full Feature | Netflix What is your gold standard for news that gives you ONLY the truth? Well it sure isn't CNN: https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fmedia%2F2024%2Ffeb%2F04%2Fcnn-staff-pro-israel-bias "According to accounts from six CNN staffers in multiple newsrooms, and more than a dozen internal memos and emails obtained by the Guardian, daily news decisions are shaped by a flow of directives from the CNN headquarters in Atlanta that have set strict guidelines on coverage. They include tight restrictions on quoting Hamas and reporting other Palestinian perspectives while Israel government statements are taken at face value. In addition, every story on the conflict must be cleared by the Jerusalem bureau before broadcast or publication. CNN journalists say the tone of coverage is set at the top by its new editor in chief and CEO, Mark Thompson, who took up his post two days after the 7 October Hamas attack. Some staff are concerned about Thompson’s willingness to withstand external attempts to influence coverage given that in a former role as the BBC’s director..." For those with the ability to think critically, the above proves that one of the major news outlets in the US has bias that is directed from the top. And the point is, they all do. They release news that has been approved according to their directed bias, not according to a search for truth and facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 24 minutes ago, eyeball said: No, that's America simply talking loud and clear as always. But of course the best example of America's lack of courage and conviction is when HW Bush told Iraqis to rise up against Saddam after chasing him and his invading army out of Kuwait. Big mistake. Taking America at it's word has always been a fickle business, especially when it comes to bloodthirsty dictators. It isn't just Biden's word, just about every free country in the world has voiced and most have given support to Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, sharkman said: Well it sure isn't CNN: https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fmedia%2F2024%2Ffeb%2F04%2Fcnn-staff-pro-israel-bias "According to accounts from six CNN staffers in multiple newsrooms, and more than a dozen internal memos and emails obtained by the Guardian, daily news decisions are shaped by a flow of directives from the CNN headquarters in Atlanta that have set strict guidelines on coverage. They include tight restrictions on quoting Hamas and reporting other Palestinian perspectives while Israel government statements are taken at face value. In addition, every story on the conflict must be cleared by the Jerusalem bureau before broadcast or publication. CNN journalists say the tone of coverage is set at the top by its new editor in chief and CEO, Mark Thompson, who took up his post two days after the 7 October Hamas attack. Some staff are concerned about Thompson’s willingness to withstand external attempts to influence coverage given that in a former role as the BBC’s director..." For those with the ability to think critically, the above proves that one of the major news outlets in the US has bias that is directed from the top. And the point is, they all do. They release news that has been approved according to their directed bias, not according to a search for truth and facts. In reality, they MAY filter news depending on the CREDIBILITY of the SOURCE. Not that I agree the government of Israel is CREDIBLE. They are PROBABLY more credible than Hamas. However, CNN was NOT the source I cited. You got ANYTHING RELEVANT to THAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 6 hours ago, Aristides said: As looooong as it takes to help Ukrainians save their independence makes a lot more sense than the 20+ years in Afghanistan and Iraq with Bush 2's phoney wars. Even if one accepts that as 100 percent true, if you want it to pass the republicans you don't marry it to a bill weakening the border with mexico. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legato Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Aristides said: Hitler was elected too. So was Putin and just about every other despot when they first came to power. Your head down a hole revisionism doesn't impress me either. You forgot Biden and Trudeau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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