What happened to Canada

[I am Groot]

 

I had to put this here because it's such a good, succinct explanation of how and why our society became so quickly divided against itself and why politics became bitter and nasty.

With each new development and each new conversation, I’ve been forced to wonder: What has happened to my country? How did we go from being a proudly pluralistic liberal democracy to a polarized nation that memory holes The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank and de-banks those who reject the party line? 

I never used to get asked about what happened to Canada.

We’ve long been viewed as a model country. But recently, the social fabric has frayed dramatically, and in a remarkably short period of time, with the culture wars apparent in Europe and the United States playing out here in extreme ways.

The next question on many people’s minds is: How did we get here?

 

https://thehub.ca/2024-01-20/tara-henley-what-happened-to-canada/

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

 

I had to put this here because it's such a good, succinct explanation of how and why our society became so quickly divided against itself and why politics became bitter and nasty.

With each new development and each new conversation, I’ve been forced to wonder: What has happened to my country? How did we go from being a proudly pluralistic liberal democracy to a polarized nation that memory holes The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank and de-banks those who reject the party line? 

I never used to get asked about what happened to Canada.

We’ve long been viewed as a model country. But recently, the social fabric has frayed dramatically, and in a remarkably short period of time, with the culture wars apparent in Europe and the United States playing out here in extreme ways.

The next question on many people’s minds is: How did we get here?

 

https://thehub.ca/2024-01-20/tara-henley-what-happened-to-canada/

 

It's a good article.  I feel its' pretty accurate and spells out the bigger factors well.

I think it's optimistic where they say this can be turned around though.  I think that bridge is burned nicely for a long time. The combination of polerizing political forces being adopted from the states (woke) and the financial stress people feel along with the divisions which were fostered for political gain under covid has left a fracture that simply Isn't going to get better.  We might improve the finances but i think we've stopped caring as a nation and we distrust each other more than we trust. 

We just don't get along any more. And we're not going to.  What do we have to rally around now?

[Moonlight Graham]

Encouraging everyone to retreat into separate identity tribes while demonizing the one tribe we all belong to and suppressing our collective pride for it is a really bad idea.

This has been the ideology of the woke left, including our current government of the past 8 years.  Yes we're all different and always have been, but we need to reject divisive identity politics and vote the current government out of office because they're destroying the country.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 Yes we're all different and always have been, but we need to reject divisive identity politics and vote the current government out of office because they're destroying the country.

I do appreciate that people hate the passive aggressive patina of the Liberal rhetoric.  I do too, but for different reasons.

The thing is, if you dislike Trudeau then you have to realize the other criticism of his methods: that he's FAKE.

The hands-holding language that he uses amounts to a tag-line, a jingle, a slogan.  It costs them nothing and gains them votes, to a point.

But if you pay too much attention, you validate it and play into his hands.

[Zeitgeist]

Canada as a nation state with its largely great history (relative to other countries) and traditions, including its English and French roots, Judeo-Christian values, and constitutional rights, have been undermined by special interest groups and identity politics ideologies.

I think that this has happened mostly because of the quite valid concerns about an overbearing government that played loose with respecting constitutional rights during the pandemic and spends an inordinate amount of time and effort kowtowing to unaccountable international bodies promoting rather fascistic ideas about how we should live that don’t impact the elites who promote these ideas.

We’re losing our living standards and quality of life, including housing affordability and economic opportunity, in order to satisfy questionable pushes for high immigration, carbon taxes, and radical ideas about gender and alternative lifestyles.

Canada is now famous for weird nonsense like freezing the bank accounts of government political opponents, martial law, free hard drugs, gender language, legal euthanasia, and a new false narrative about Canada as a shameful genocidal and racist country.  Most of this has happened since 2015, when the Trudeau Liberals first came into office, but I’m not sure yet that the Conservatives will be much better.

 

[OftenWrong]

36 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is now famous for weird nonsense like freezing the bank accounts of government political opponents, martial law, free hard drugs, gender language, legal euthanasia, and a new false narrative about Canada as a shameful genocidal and racist country.  Most of this has happened since 2015, when the Trudeau Liberals first came into office

Here is a glimpse into what I think is really going on in Canada and around the world. A new form of warfare has been created.

"Both the U.S. and Chinese militaries are working toward integrating AI into three common areas: information processing, unmanned weapons and decision-making. However, Beijing is taking the technology one step further by exploring its use in cognitive warfare, which some Chinese military experts say will likely become the next most important battlefield after the physical and information space."

Winning without fighting

And these bloody machines can out-think us so fast, will have your head spinning around in no time. They beat the best chess master in the world years ago. What they have today is far more powerful, and "research" in AI continues.

Stephen Hawking called AI the greatest threat to humanity yet, surpassing atomic bombs. Now we're starting to see what he meant.

[Gaétan]

48 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 but I’m not sure yet that the Conservatives will be much better.

 

They never did better, we can't vote for a guy who doesn't demand a cease fire in Gaza, this guy doesn't appear to be when you hear him speak but he is a monster, nothing less. Him or Trudeau are just hypocrites to have votes but open your eyes and see their real nature. They are cowards and monsters

[Zeitgeist]

36 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

They never did better, we can't vote for a guy who doesn't demand a cease fire in Gaza, this guy doesn't appear to be when you hear him speak but he is a monster, nothing less. Him or Trudeau are just hypocrites to have votes but open your eyes and see their real nature. They are cowards and monsters

I would give Poilievre the benefit of a doubt and a chance to govern.  Unfortunately the Liberals have become more of the war mongering party.  Also, Canada is too left wing. Too radical left on gender (which is choose your own for kids without parents’ knowledge, including government funding of surgery), abortion (which is permitted up to the day of birth), assisted suicide for the mentally ill, out of control high immigration (accelerating home price inflation and reducing social cohesion), ineffective carbon taxes in a time of high inflation and living costs, ideological capture of our universities and governments by the radical left, the list goes on.  Canada was a better country 10 years ago.

Edited January 21 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think that this has happened mostly because of the quite valid concerns about an overbearing government that played loose with respecting constitutional rights during the pandemic

I think that was a major part of the problem, but i think it began even before then.

I think that strong tribalism especially on the left showed up in the states, and i think it crept its way into canada. And i think trudeau watched how obama successfully utilized that to win elections and decided to copy it, and became exceptionally divisive. 

Long before covid the was pulling the 'deplorables' card basically saying all conservatives are white supremacists and you should hate them.  Rich were evil. Leaders from the west can't rule the country, it doesn't' work they're too stupid.

And it went from there. He weaponized covid to turn us against each other for sure, but that was just part of it.

And with so many immigrants the communities are not as tight as they should be - and that plays into 'dividisons' as well.

And i just don't see that healing any time soon. How long till it's safe to mention out loud you're a conservative at work again? Probably not in the next 20 years.  You literally risk being cancelled in many workplaces just for saying that.

[eyeball]

Everything is Trudeau's fault. I think he must have a time machine. It doesn't matter what we do he can always go back and undo it.

[Zeitgeist]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

And i just don't see that healing any time soon. How long till it's safe to mention out loud you're a conservative at work again? Probably not in the next 20 years.  You literally risk being cancelled in many workplaces just for saying that.

That’s exactly right.  At a time when the country needs to move right just to end the insanity, conservatives continue to be demonized by government and media. The Conservatives themselves renounced conservativism to get elected, defeating their whole purpose.

We also created this big distinction between fiscal and social conservatives and made social conservative socially unacceptable. I’d argue that we’re reaping what we’ve sown on that, because now that we’ve put same sex marriage in parallel with heterosexual, gone ultra-permissive on divorce and abortion, created confusion on gender, and suppressed fertility, we are even more dependent on mass immigration to counter our negative birth rate, creating new social tensions and pressures on our infrastructure.

We’ve destabilized the traditional family, made housing unaffordable for young people unless they’re basically dual income no kids, and we’re now literally killing citizens instead of treating them.  Add the shaming of our country as colonial, patriarchal and racist, and you have the ingredients of a cynical population dependent on an overbearing collectivist state with declining living standards.

Thank God that there are a few brave leaders like Javier Milei pushing back.  Of course leaders like him are immediately designated as alt-right by our knee-jerk radical left nanny government and its crony mainstream media.

Edited January 21 by Zeitgeist

[Gaétan]

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I would give Poilievre the benefit of a doubt and a chance to govern.  

I wouldn't take a chance on this guy because atomic bombs can fly everywhere, he's heartless. The Russians will never forget what NATO did to them, we will have to pay for these hundreds of thousands of Russian deaths. We should not vote for people who seem nice like him, Trudeau or Biden without seeing what they really are. He says he's going to cut the carbon tax, but what he gives us he'll get back one way or another, the rich won't pay for it with a conservative party, every dollar that he gives he will take it back. There will be so many hungry homeless people committing crimes with him that he will hire thousands of police officers at $150,000 a year plus overtime and build prisons to lock them up. People will be afraid to leave their homes but that doesn't matter; the conservatives are associated with arms sellers that they will distribute in homes.

[CdnFox]

28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Everything is Trudeau's fault. I think he must have a time machine. It doesn't matter what we do he can always go back and undo it.

Not everything.

Just inflation, the increase in crime, the divisions that are ripping canada apart, the price of housing and rent, the strain on our medical system, the complete collapse of our reputation on the world stage, the severe worsening of our quality of life, the 'trudeau-towns' that are popping up, doubling out debt by borrowing more than all previous prime ministers combined, the release of violent criminals to kill cops and re-rape kids, our weakened trade deals and relationships,  and a few other things like that.  

But hey- we got dope! So yay!

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s exactly right.  At a time when the country needs to move right just to end the insanity, conservatives continue to be demonized by government and media. 

The left right axis doesn't exist as it did 50 30 20 years ago. You have to be specific as to what right wing affects you want.

I was just talking with the CDN Fox, who seem to be saying Poilievre won't represent moneyed interests in Canada.

Is THAT right wing?

Poilievre won't be removing protection for transgender Canadians from the laws, nor will he have the power to change much of how the Charter of Rights is interpreted.

Is THAT right wing?

I just want to understand.

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Not everything...

And of course there's the big shell game... Where you blame your enemies for things outside their control that go badly, and credit your friends for things outside their control that go well.

It's pretty boring actually

 

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s exactly right.  At a time when the country needs to move right just to end the insanity, conservatives continue to be demonized by government and media. The Conservatives themselves renounced conservativism to get elected, defeating their whole purpose.

We also created this big distinction between fiscal and social conservatives and made social conservative socially unacceptable. I’d argue that we’re reaping what we’ve sown on that, because now that we’ve put same sex marriage in parallel with heterosexual, gone ultra-permissive on divorce and abortion, created confusion on gender, and suppressed fertility, we are even more dependent on mass immigration to counter our negative birth rate, creating new social tensions and pressures on our infrastructure.

We’ve destabilized the traditional family, made housing unaffordable for young people unless they’re basically dual income no kids, and we’re now literally killing citizens instead of treating them.  Add the shaming of our country as colonial, patriarchal and racist, and you have the ingredients of a cynical population dependent on an overbearing collectivist state with declining living standards.

Thank God that there are a few brave leaders like Javier Milei pushing back.  Of course leaders like him are immediately designated as alt-right by our knee-jerk radical left nanny government and its crony mainstream media.

Well, in fairness even those on the left are being cancelled for not being left enough. I think the problem is we're facing zealots and radicals and we just let them take over.  Society knows that being authortarian right wingers is bad, but they kind of just ignored the authortarian left wingers till it was a little late. Now we'll spend years flushing them out.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well, in fairness even those on the left are being cancelled for not being left enough. I think the problem is we're facing zealots and radicals and we just let them take over.  Society knows that being authortarian right wingers is bad, but they kind of just ignored the authortarian left wingers till it was a little late. Now we'll spend years flushing them out.

I just don’t know if I buy into the Canadian way anymore (versus the American). We’re a safer society and that’s about the only upside I see anymore. On most other indicators we’re doing worse than the US: wages, freedom of speech, housing, even reducing greenhouse gas emissions.  For a country that outlawed slavery, made big contributions to peacekeeping, and welcomed people from all over the world with more acceptance than probably anywhere else, we still manage to disparage Canada at every turn.  The country needs major restoration.  

Edited January 21 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

However, Beijing is taking the technology one step further by exploring its use in cognitive warfare, which some Chinese military experts say will likely become the next most important battlefield after the physical and information space."

Judging by this forum, Canada is already a toxic sludge of brain-addled dolts drinking stupidity from the CNN/CBC firehose. We might as well just plant the Chinese flag and learn Mandarin if it's an information war. 

[eyeball]

What happened to Canada?

The same thing that happened everywhere else in North America. The 1% decided to keep more of the capital gains they were willing to share with our grandfather's. They invested those gains in other countries ripe for the picking. Our governments encouraged it and conservatives cheered it.

Everything's gone down hill since and now the left gets blamed while the 1% laughs all the way to the bank.

I actually blame the left too for having put up with it for so long. What we really need is a good old fashioned grassroots class war to shake things up.

Which of course is what caused our grandfather's employers to share capital gains around more fairly in the first place.  It's an age old perennial problem for which there's usually only one solution. 

 

Edited January 21 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What happened to Canada?

The same thing that happened everywhere else in North America. The 1% decided to keep more of the capital gains they were willing to share with our grandfather's.

The illusion of "sharing money" to overcome every obstacle is ridiculous.

If you shared all of Jeff Bezos's money you still couldn't feed all of the poor people because a trillion one dollar bills - which only actually exist as 1's and 0's inside of a computer anyways - can't be instantly converted into food, homes, etc.

The people who make "items" also makes "luxury items". Some people will always have them, some people won't. No system of government is gonna change that. Religions don't change that. Anyone granted the power even try to change that will succumb to their own greed, that's life.

With 8B people on the planet there are gonna be a lot of people 4' tall, a lot of 7-footers, a lot of rich people, 10,000x as many poor people. That's basic math.  

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

I was just talking with the CDN Fox, who seem to be saying Poilievre won't represent moneyed interests in Canada.

Is THAT right wing?

 

IT's neither right wing nor left wing - all politicians need money to function. Historically the libs and the conservatives of the day both solicit and recieved most of their money from business  interests or wealthy people.  I will happily acknowledge that it was a liberal of all people who brought that to an end - or at least started the process that would lead to an end. 

at the end of the day money knows no party affiliation.

 

Quote

 

And of course there's the big shell game... Where you blame your enemies for things outside their control that go badly, and credit your friends for things outside their control that go well.

It's pretty boring actually

 

And of course there's the denial, where you pretend your prime minister of choice has done no wrong and was powerless in the cases where he's at fault and prentend others are the bad people for having brought it up in the first place.

I am sure it IS boring - if you're constantly doing the same thing it often becomes boring indeed. Perhaps try something else, like actually addressing the issues or admitting that justin has in fact done those things and discuss what should be done about it.

That would be a useful conversation. Have you considered being useful?

ANd in the end i can point to each of those things and describe in detail exactly why justin was responsible for it directly and specifically.  Can you explain specifically why he is not? No? I see

Edited January 21 by CdnFox

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

The illusion of "sharing money" to overcome every obstacle is ridiculous.

If you shared all of Jeff Bezos's money you still couldn't feed all of the poor people because a trillion one dollar bills - which only actually exist as 1's and 0's inside of a computer anyways - can't be instantly converted into food, homes, etc.

The people who make "items" also makes "luxury items". Some people will always have them, some people won't. No system of government is gonna change that. Religions don't change that. Anyone granted the power even try to change that will succumb to their own greed, that's life.

With 8B people on the planet there are gonna be a lot of people 4' tall, a lot of 7-footers, a lot of rich people, 10,000x as many poor people. That's basic math.  

Here's the thing WestCanMan,

We know EVERYONE gets richer when the capitalist economy grows and produces more.  The majority goes to people who do the most work but it pulls everyone up. That's their reward for creating the wealth everyone benefits from

But - people like eyeball believe that wealth cannot be created, you can't add wealth or value to the universe - there is a  finite amount of wealth in existence and so if one person has more of it than another they MUST have stolen it. This is why deep down they want to take all the wealth from everyone and distribute it evenly.

But their wrong. Wealth isn't a 'thing', it must constantly be created or it vanishes.  And what they want to do will destroy creation of wealth so as it vanishes nobody has anything.

That's communism. And that's why it doesn't work. But you'll never get him to understand that.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The illusion of "sharing money" to overcome every obstacle is ridiculous.

I guess it was just a short-lived illusion of the wealthy classes following 2 incredibly destructive world wars that perhaps sharing the wealth more fairly might avoid the economic root causes of such wars in the future.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I just don’t know if I buy into the Canadian way anymore (versus the American). We’re a safer society and that’s about the only upside I see anymore. On most other indicators we’re doing worse than the US: wages, freedom of speech, housing, even reducing greenhouse gas emissions.  For a country that outlawed slavery, made big contributions to peacekeeping, and welcomed people from all over the world with more acceptance that probably anywhere else, we still manage to disparage Canada at every turn.  The country needs major restoration.  

Can what we have now really be called the 'canadian way' anymore tho?

The canadian was was acceptance of others even if you STRONGLY disagreed with them.  And a willingness to accept consensus.  I see neither evident today.  Do we still help each other out the way we used to? Do we have a common morality or moral compas we can all use to guide us? Do we stand up against corruption in our leaders? Do we keep our kids safe? Do we get out on the land and fish and hunt in any large numbers anymore? What are our 'shared experiences'?

The fact is i see what used to be the canadian way vanishing quickly - i don't know what way we have right now but its not the Canadian way.

[Legato]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I guess it was just a short-lived illusion of the wealthy classes following 2 incredibly destructive world wars that perhaps sharing the wealth more fairly might avoid the economic root causes of such wars in the future.

Nonsense. It's human nature to take whatever they can. Some more than others.

The old saying, "what's yours is mine but what's mine is my own".

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Can what we have now really be called the 'canadian way' anymore tho?

The canadian was was acceptance of others even if you STRONGLY disagreed with them.  And a willingness to accept consensus.  I see neither evident today.  Do we still help each other out the way we used to? Do we have a common morality or moral compas we can all use to guide us? Do we stand up against corruption in our leaders? Do we keep our kids safe? Do we get out on the land and fish and hunt in any large numbers anymore? What are our 'shared experiences'?

The fact is i see what used to be the canadian way vanishing quickly - i don't know what way we have right now but its not the Canadian way.

Amen... Sorry Apeoplekind.

Edited January 21 by Legato

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, Legato said:

Nonsense. It's human nature to take whatever they can. Some more than others.

The old saying, "what's yours is mine but what's mine is my own".

Amen... Sorry Apeoplekind.

We really need a facepalm reaction button