Isreal's real plans are now out in the open.

[godzilla]

Netanyahu says he has told U.S. he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario

Israel wants everything west of Jordan... and then Jordan later.

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, godzilla said:

Netanyahu says he has told U.S. he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario

Israel wants everything west of Jordan... and then Jordan later.

Everything west of jordan perhaps.  Who can blame them? After 0ct 7 i would if i were them too. Obviously gaza is not interested in finding peace, better to get rid of them.

They've brought it on themselves.  How can they ever be trusted again?

[WestCanMan]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

After 0ct 7 i would if i were them too.

Yeah, I think that pre-Oct 7th was the trial of Gaza existing as a state. It was a failure. 

[Legato]

1 hour ago, godzilla said:

Netanyahu says he has told U.S. he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario

Israel wants everything west of Jordan... and then Jordan later.

Note to Hamas....This is what happens when you poke a beehive.

When one tries to steal the honey the bee's go all out to protect their young.

Except this time those bee's were Hornets.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Yeah, I think that pre-Oct 7th was the trial of Gaza existing as a state. It was a failure. 

Well as i recall - and this isn't my area of intense study or anything - the 2 state palestine solution was on the table and being negotiated with the Palestinian authority back around 2012 - 2014 or so. And progress was being made, but then the authority decided to official recognize and make peace with hamas. A given that hamas wants israel dead the israelis walked away from the talks refusing to negotiate when a terrorist group was involved even if they were the gov't of gaza.

I think israel was willing to work out a two state solution but that was seriously damaged by that - now i can't see how they'd ever agree to it especially with hamas still in power or having any influence with the palestine authority.

I think this has taken something that was already on life support and killed it

[robosmith]

16 hours ago, godzilla said:

Netanyahu says he has told U.S. he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario

Israel wants everything west of Jordan... and then Jordan later.

Time to cut off Israel's  $4B annual subsidy cause they clearly have no interest in peaceful coexistence and are giving Hamas exactly what they wanted.

Edited January 19, 2024 by robosmith

[CdnFox]

17 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Time to cut off Israel's  $4B annual subsidy cause they clearly have no interest in peaceful coexistence and are giving Hamas exactly what they wanted.

Time to double israel's 4B annual subsidy because gazas clearly have no interest in peaceful coexistance and Israel will want to get them a nice 'going away ' present.

[Moonlight Graham]

You don't reward a terrorist attack with political gains, especially statehood.  Palestinians should have statehood somebody hopefully but Hamas needs to prove they won't use the rights of statehood to arm to attack Israel.

Arabs have been trying to enforce "from the river to the sea" policy since 1948.  They attacked in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, and Hamas and other jihadists have been launching terrorist attacks continually at Israeli civilians for the last 20+ years.

Give Palestinians a pathway to peace and statehood.  Tell them if they stop the terrorism they can earn statehood.  If terrorists keep attacking and Gazans don't like that it's their responsibility to defeat the terrorists internally if they don't want Israel to do it.  Palestinians are the ones who democratically elected Hamas in the first place.

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You don't reward a terrorist attack with political gains, especially statehood.  Palestinians should have statehood somebody hopefully but Hamas needs to prove they won't use the rights of statehood to arm to attack Israel.

Arabs have been trying to enforce "from the river to the sea" policy since 1948.  They attacked in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, and Hamas and other jihadists have been launching terrorist attacks continually at Israeli civilians for the last 20+ years.

Give Palestinians a pathway to peace and statehood.  Tell them if they stop the terrorism they can earn statehood.  If terrorists keep attacking and Gazans don't like that it's their responsibility to defeat the terrorists internally if they don't want Israel to do it.  Palestinians are the ones who democratically elected Hamas in the first place.

You're hopelessly naive about the ability of Palestinian citizens to control Hamas.

Esp when Netanyahu has been funneling $100s of millions from Qatar to Hamas trying to buy them off in an effort to drive a wedge between Hamas and the Palestine National Authority.

[Moonlight Graham]

14 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You're hopelessly naive about the ability of Palestinian citizens to control Hamas.

Have they ever tried?

[robosmith]

4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Have they ever tried?

Do you believe Palestinians have the weapons that Hamas does?

Turns out it's only Hamas who believes in martyrdom for the cause of freedom from Israeli occupation.

Other citizens have families that depend on them.

[CdnFox]

34 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You don't reward a terrorist attack with political gains, especially statehood.  Palestinians should have statehood somebody hopefully but Hamas needs to prove they won't use the rights of statehood to arm to attack Israel.

Arabs have been trying to enforce "from the river to the sea" policy since 1948.  They attacked in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, and Hamas and other jihadists have been launching terrorist attacks continually at Israeli civilians for the last 20+ years.

Give Palestinians a pathway to peace and statehood.  Tell them if they stop the terrorism they can earn statehood.  If terrorists keep attacking and Gazans don't like that it's their responsibility to defeat the terrorists internally if they don't want Israel to do it.  Palestinians are the ones who democratically elected Hamas in the first place.

Oh i think hamas has to be gone either way.  I think a new state is going to involve the capture and death of the old state reps who started the war.  Hamas cannot be allowed to survive. What we're disusing is what comes next.

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, robosmith said:

Time to cut off Israel's  $4B annual subsidy cause they clearly have no interest in peaceful coexistence and are giving Hamas exactly what they wanted.

Correct me if i'm wrong here, 9/11 happened and you guys along with most NATO countries kick the crap our of Afghanistan for 14 years....i get it You had to send a message fuc* around and you'll take a dirt nap...But when Israel stands up and sends the same message ....your only comment is cut off the 4 bil in aid becasue they have no interest in living next to a terrorist state...do you see the similarities in that...Israel has only been doing it for a couple months now....the US did it for 14 years...What you should be saying is load up every C-5 and C-17 full of ammo and fly it over...and then giving Iran one final warning about its terrorist programs and then gathering up NATO and slapping the shi* out of that bitc* for 14 years...

 

[Army Guy]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:24 PM, godzilla said:

Netanyahu says he has told U.S. he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario

Israel wants everything west of Jordan... and then Jordan later.

Where in the article or speech does he say then jordan later, is that something you pulled out your ass. or do you have a source...

[robosmith]

36 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Correct me if i'm wrong here, 9/11 happened and you guys along with most NATO countries kick the crap our of Afghanistan for 14 years....i get it You had to send a message fuc* around and you'll take a dirt nap...But when Israel stands up and sends the same message ....your only comment is cut off the 4 bil in aid becasue they have no interest in living next to a terrorist state...do you see the similarities in that...Israel has only been doing it for a couple months now....the US did it for 14 years...

Did the US kill 23,000 civilians and level an entire occupied region in 2 months in Afghanistan? No, we did not.

The FACT is, Netanyahu knew about Hamas plans and let it happen while the IDF was in the West Bank helping the settlers steal MORE Palestinian land. 

36 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

What you should be saying is load up every C-5 and C-17 full of ammo and fly it over...and then giving Iran one final warning about its terrorist programs and then gathering up NATO and slapping the shi* out of that bitc* for 14 years...

Tell it to someone who cares what you believe.

[Army Guy]

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Did the US kill 23,000 civilians and level an entire occupied region in 2 months in Afghanistan? No, we did not.

The FACT is, Netanyahu knew about Hamas plans and let it happen while the IDF was in the West Bank helping the settlers steal MORE Palestinian land. 

Tell it to someone who cares what you believe.

You do know that Hamas includes there military deaths in those numbers, which account for more than 9500 deaths...

NATO killed many times that ...over 14 years....and the initial war with the taliban taking them from power, cost the taliban/ al Quadi  a pretty close to that figure....... but you knew that already didn't you...

Well if it is FACT then a good source would be easy to find right....becasue thats speculation on your part....do you do a lot of that...

 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If terrorists keep attacking and Gazans don't like that it's their responsibility to defeat the terrorists internally if they don't want Israel to do it. 

Notwithstanding the possibility some sort of Gandhian figure emerges who can inspire peaceful resistance, Gazan counter-terrorists will probably need a patron to arm and outfit them.  Or were you going to leave them on their own - rocks and sling-shots?

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

You do know that Hamas includes there military deaths in those numbers, which account for more than 9500 deaths...

The numbers have increased, and are ALL estimates.

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

NATO killed many times that ...over 14 years....and the initial war with the taliban taking them from power, cost the taliban/ al Quadi  a pretty close to that figure....... but you knew that already didn't you...

Sure. Over 14 YEARS.

When we tried to save the Afghan people, esp the women, from Taliban rule.

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Well if it is FACT then a good source would be easy to find right....becasue thats speculation on your part....do you do a lot of that...

 

There's a whole thread about Netanyahu's handling of the attack HERE, posted the day after.

Sorry you missed it, but you can just search the forum for "netanyahu" and I'm sure it will pop up.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, robosmith said:

Do you believe Palestinians have the weapons that Hamas does?

Turns out it's only Hamas who believes in martyrdom for the cause of freedom from Israeli occupation.

Other citizens have families that depend on them.

How do you get rid of Hamas?  It's likely impossible.  The biggest enemy of Gazans isn't Israel, it's Hamas, and Gazans elected them.   So here we are.

A region governed by a terrorist group who continually murder your people and want your country destroyed and giving them their own state and the rights therein to have their own military and trade to import weapons is a non-starter for Israel.  They'll never allow it as long as Hamas does what they do, nor should they.

The good faith needs to be shown by the current government of Gaza (Hamas), not Israel.  Even though Hamas was continually launching rocket and suicide attacks at them, in the mid-2000's Israel removed all their people from Gaza and let them have their land back and have democratic elections.  Palestinians immediately elected Hamas.

The current government of Israel aren't the nicest people but they also aren't suicidal.

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

How do you get rid of Hamas?  It's likely impossible.  The biggest enemy of Gazans isn't Israel, it's Hamas, and Gazans elected them.   So here we are.

A region governed by a terrorist group who continually murder your people and want your country destroyed and giving them their own state and the rights therein to have their own military and trade to import weapons is a non-starter for Israel.  They'll never allow it as long as Hamas does what they do, nor should they.

The good faith needs to be shown by the current government of Gaza (Hamas), not Israel.  Even though Hamas was continually launching rocket and suicide attacks at them, in the mid-2000's Israel removed all their people from Gaza and let them have their land back and have democratic elections.  Palestinians immediately elected Hamas.

The current government of Israel aren't the nicest people but they also aren't suicidal.

They are doing NOTHING to achieve peace with the Palestinians.

Netanyahu was funneling $MILLIONS to Hamas for the last couple of years to drive a wedge between them and the Palestine Authority, and that backfired spectacularly.

IMO, that, combined with Israeli KNOWLEDGE of Hamas plans, NOT being prepared for them, AND near total destruction of Gaza, proves complicity for the purpose of the goal or Netanyahu's extreme hard right coalition: eviction of Palestinians.

Several of Netanyahu's ministers are OPENLY calling for that NOW. Additional evidence is the continual illegal expansion of West Bank settlements. 🤮

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

They are doing NOTHING to achieve peace with the Palestinians.

Netanyahu was funneling $MILLIONS to Hamas for the last couple of years to drive a wedge between them and the Palestine Authority, and that backfired spectacularly.

IMO, that, combined with Israeli KNOWLEDGE of Hamas plans, NOT being prepared for them, AND near total destruction of Gaza, proves complicity for the purpose of the goal or Netanyahu's extreme hard right coalition: eviction of Palestinians.

Several of Netanyahu's ministers are OPENLY calling for that NOW. Additional evidence is the continual illegal expansion of West Bank settlements. 🤮

And what have the Palestinians done to achieve peace?  You can't complain about being victims when you've tried to murder your "oppressors" for the last 75 years and haven't ever recognized their right to even exist.

If something is going to swing your government and its voters towards the hard right it's probably your neighbours trying to kill you and your family over your entire lifetime starting a few years after your race barely survived another genocide attempt during WWII.

[robosmith]

Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

And what have the Palestinians done to achieve peace?  You can't complain about being victims when you've tried to murder your "oppressors" for the last 75 years and haven't ever recognized their right to even exist.

Repelling "oppressors" is fighting for freedom, NOT murder. 

No one asked the Palestinians if their land could be GIVEN to Jews to create their Jewish majority state.

It was STOLEN by the UN which didn't own it and given to Israelis and Zionists.

Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

If something is going to swing your government and its voters towards the hard right it's probably your neighbours trying to kill you and your family over your entire lifetime starting a few years after your race barely survived another genocide attempt during WWII.

Zionists invaded the land of Palestine and terrorized Palestinians into fleeing their land. Many Palestinian villages were destroyed and their land was stolen by Jews.

Did you never wonder WHY Palestinians hate the Jews so much that they keep fighting to get their land back 75 years later?

[Rebound]

22 hours ago, robosmith said:

Time to cut off Israel's  $4B annual subsidy cause they clearly have no interest in peaceful coexistence and are giving Hamas exactly what they wanted.

You need something explained:

Taliban, ISIS, the 9/11 bombers, Islamic Jihad and Hamas are all equal. Their terrorism, war-mongering and hatred of all of us in the West goes far beyond the existence of Israel.  They have proven that they use their civilian deaths as a tool of warfare. They ordered their civilians to ignore evacuation orders and they didn’t shelter any children or civilians in their tunnels.  
 

These are not the calm, kumbaya, hippie peaceniks you seem to think.  They are ultra-extremist terrorists.   

[Fluffypants]

10 hours ago, robosmith said:

 

When we tried to save the Afghan people, esp the women, from Taliban rule.

Really? We cared so much about women in Afghanistan that we let people who immediately took away all their rights to take over.

[Rebound]

13 hours ago, robosmith said:

Did the US kill 23,000 civilians and level an entire occupied region in 2 months in Afghanistan? No, we did not.

The FACT is, Netanyahu knew about Hamas plans and let it happen while the IDF was in the West Bank helping the settlers steal MORE Palestinian land. 

Tell it to someone who cares what you believe.

What makes you think the U.S. killed no civilians in Afghanistan? As with Gaza, they have no formal military, so all deaths were civilian deaths. 
 

Of the Hamas-reported 23,000 deaths, how many were militants?

By this estimate,the U.S. killed over 43,000 civilian non-combatants in Afghanistan.  
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/human-and-budgetary-costs-date-us-war-afghanistan-2001-2022

Edited January 20, 2024 by Rebound