Canadian Powerlifting Union is set to suspend female bodybuilder April Hutchinson for two years, after she slammed transgender rival who's smashed records and bragged about it

[Perspektiv]

Fear is a powerful tool. Remember,  you control one's mind, you essentially can control their body.

[myata]

This is just another piece of proof that given to themselves governments will develop their own minds; get absorbed into them; see them as the real, true reality; and see themselves as the ultimate cause for all and anything what is happening in this, secondary one.

"We think so you are".

So many tests, experiments, experiences and examples. How could one be so nai... st.. dumb? Incredible. Unbounded collective insanity is one of the things we humans excel in. I wonder what would the aliens think? Unless they were just like us, and only a step or two ahead.

[Nationalist]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:25 AM, Nexii said:

Yea the organizations should serve the athletes. Today it seems most such organizations serve themselves first. 

A lot of this stems from conflating sex and gender. The right and left both do it. The right by classifying by sex only, and the left by using gender only. There are issues where both need to be considered to make sensible and fair decisions. 

Horseshit! Pure horseshit.

[Nexii]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Horseshit! Pure horseshit.

It's absolutely true. The far right believes male/female is entirely biological and medically transitioning means nothing. Even if you could never tell on the street that I was ever male. And the far left believes it's entirely in the mind, that you just have to believe and that's what you are. Both of these views are very ridiculous and not helpful. 

In the case of professional paid sports as a career, sex should be the primary determinant obviously and not gender. For recreational fun sports like in school or extracurricula, it should be gender. Eventually we'll reach a middle ground but right now the extreme views seem to get the most attention - which isn't really what the majority think about it all

[QuebecOverCanada]

11 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

What will happen next?  

I except a return of right wing McCarthyism in less than a decade.

11 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

What will happen next?  

I except a return of right wing McCarthyism in less than a decade.

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, Nexii said:

It's absolutely true. The far right believes male/female is entirely biological and medically transitioning means nothing. Even if you could never tell on the street that I was ever male. And the far left believes it's entirely in the mind, that you just have to believe and that's what you are. Both of these views are very ridiculous and not helpful. 

In the case of professional paid sports as a career, sex should be the primary determinant obviously and not gender. For recreational fun sports like in school or extracurricula, it should be gender. Eventually we'll reach a middle ground but right now the extreme views seem to get the most attention - which isn't really what the majority think about it all

A majority of Canucks do not buy this trans-gender horseshit.

I coached a minor hockey team in a community that allowed girls to play with boys. The girls were pylons. Slow and in the way. It was depressing for the boys and for the girls.

There is no middle ground in sports. A male body is much more powerful than a female body. This is not only horseshit...its gonna get dangerous.

[Perspektiv]

32 minutes ago, Nexii said:

In the case of professional paid sports as a career, sex should be the primary determinant obviously and not gender.

Why should it be sex?

Isn't it because both are blatantly different?

If the conversation isn't an honest one, what is the point of having one to begin with?

Like stopping crime in a black neighborhood. Only blaming the police. 

How can one genuinely wish to fix something, if they can't look at any of the social, cultural issues that plague this community as well?

No different with someone who is trans.

How is the onus on me to pretend one isn't trans if its blatant?

I remember seeing a video of a trans woman who looked just like Jeff Daniel's in a micro mini skirt exit a toilet with young girls inside being confronted by a man who's daughter was inside.

How am I supposed to pretend you're a woman? 

What most are content to do, is live and let live. Laugh amongst themselves, for some.

But to being gaslit that there isn't a difference? 

[Nexii]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

A majority of Canucks do not buy this trans-gender horseshit.

I coached a minor hockey team in a community that allowed girls to play with boys. The girls were pylons. Slow and in the way. It was depressing for the boys and for the girls.

There is no middle ground in sports. A male body is much more powerful than a female body. This is not only horseshit...its gonna get dangerous.

Speaking for MtF, if you're on hormones you're going to be a lot closer to a girl in terms of sports performance than a guy. The strength loss is significant, up to half.

But at the elite level it's too much an advantage. An average sized male is 99th percentile for height/weight female. 

[Nexii]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Why should it be sex?

Isn't it because both are blatantly different?

If the conversation isn't an honest one, what is the point of having one to begin with?

Like stopping crime in a black neighborhood. Only blaming the police. 

How can one genuinely wish to fix something, if they can't look at any of the social, cultural issues that plague this community as well?

No different with someone who is trans.

How is the onus on me to pretend one isn't trans if its blatant?

I remember seeing a video of a trans woman who looked just like Jeff Daniel's in a micro mini skirt exit a toilet with young girls inside being confronted by a man who's daughter was inside.

How am I supposed to pretend you're a woman? 

What most are content to do, is live and let live. Laugh amongst themselves, for some.

But to being gaslit that there isn't a difference? 

I don't understand your point at all? I'm saying that if you've gone through male puberty you shouldn't be competing against females in elite sports. Maybe that wasn't clear. 

That's not a discriminatory take, as many people who aren't born with an athlete body also can't be elite athletes ever. There's a million other careers one can seek out. It's not the past where options were far more limited

[Zeitgeist]

30 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

A majority of Canucks do not buy this trans-gender horseshit.

I coached a minor hockey team in a community that allowed girls to play with boys. The girls were pylons. Slow and in the way. It was depressing for the boys and for the girls.

There is no middle ground in sports. A male body is much more powerful than a female body. This is not only horseshit...its gonna get dangerous.

When governments and organizations require people to do stupid things that are obviously stupid, they discredit themselves.  If this union is going to persist in working against its members, people should leave the union en masse and simply defund and boycott all competitions that this union runs/supports.   People have the right to speak out.  I can’t believe how cowed and weak people have become.  The woke inquisitions have really driven fear into people.  It’s time to turn the tables on the activists.  

[myata]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

If this union is going to persist in working against its members, people should leave the union en masse and simply defund and boycott all competitions that this union runs/supports.

Seriously why wouldn't they? There are world precedents with fair, science based rules for these cases. Create a new league at least it would make sense.

[Aristides]

7 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I agree, but what can you do?

Put yourself in an athletes shoes. She has sponsorships she desperately needs. Scholarships, even.

She is potentially building her career, and you have a ton of women who truly have to straddle a paper thin line.

Their rights as women, or their ability to have a career.

It shouldn't be a choice, but now it is.

So many corporations going woke, would simply not accept a spokesperson that went against such ideologies.

Its bad for business. Trans activists love it that way.

It puts immense pressure on women to keep their mouth shut. Same thing that would keep people quiet in a workplace that is toxic. 

Most speak with their feet, and quit. Speaking out, often will get you in trouble, worsening your condition.

Trans activists have got to be the most vocal type of activist that there is, or in the top 5.

The amount of vitriol coming your way for publicly making a statement, is enough to send businesses into panic mode to pacify these people.

Look at Dave Chapelle. He went from comedic genius, to many feeling he stopped being funny.

Activists tried destroying his career, but he is insanely rich, so had nothing to lose.

Imagine that fear, knowing you don't have such a strong career.

 

If this continues there will be no careers as women's sports lose their supporters and female competitors.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Nexii said:

Speaking for MtF, if you're on hormones you're going to be a lot closer to a girl in terms of sports performance than a guy. The strength loss is significant, up to half.

But at the elite level it's too much an advantage. An average sized male is 99th percentile for height/weight female. 

I get that you're walking a line to try to be fair.  but if there's a reason to split the sexes apart at all,  pro OR amateur, then born-males should not be competing with females regardless of hormones.  "closer' is not "the same".  On average a born-male is still going to be bigger and stronger than the average born-female.

There are just some parts of life where the trans people aren't going to get what they want. Its not fair. Sports may be one of them, if you want to compete compete with your birthsex.  IF that's too painful, don't compete. Sports in highschool for PE can be mixed sports.

THe relationship does have to be a bit of give and take. And sports is just one area where 'accomodation' may not work

[Nexii]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I get that you're walking a line to try to be fair.  but if there's a reason to split the sexes apart at all,  pro OR amateur, then born-males should not be competing with females regardless of hormones.  "closer' is not "the same".  On average a born-male is still going to be bigger and stronger than the average born-female.

There are just some parts of life where the trans people aren't going to get what they want. Its not fair. Sports may be one of them, if you want to compete compete with your birthsex.  IF that's too painful, don't compete. Sports in highschool for PE can be mixed sports.

THe relationship does have to be a bit of give and take. And sports is just one area where 'accomodation' may not work

Though if you're talking high school sport the assumption would be that trans would be on hormones since before puberty. So there's basically no advantage in that case. 

Depends some on the sport too obviously, there's no one size fits all. Banning transgender from all sports even recreational is a pretty extreme take.

Though even before transgender athletes got more into it, this was an issue that sports organizations didn't really solve. Allowing intersex to compete in racing (Castor Semenya) against women for example. 

What I want to know is the mindset of these athletes. Is there really any glory in it? It just seems so odd to me from a psychological angle

Edited November 15, 2023 by Nexii

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

Though if you're talking high school sport the assumption would be that trans would be on hormones since before puberty. So there's basically no advantage in that case. 

That's not an assumption.  In fact i'd like to see that banned - mutilating children before they're old enough to consent and destroying their ability to have kids one day should be illegal.
 

And look at all the qualifiers you have to use.  "Basically" no difference - meaning there's a difference and we both know that.  "CLOSER" to being a woman than a man Etc etc.

No.  If there's a reason to divide women and men for sports then they should be divided based on birth sex always.

Quote

Depends some on the sport too obviously, there's no one size fits all. Banning transgender from all sports even recreational is a pretty extreme take.

No ban in the slightest - but they participate in the sport based on their birth sex.  Nobody's saying they can't participate but if they were born male they play with the boys.

 

 

Quote

What I want to know is the mindset of these athletes. Is there really any glory in it? It just seems so odd to me from a psychological angle

They are hyper competitive people. Nobody who isn't would get anywhere near the top. SO they pour their lives into their sports, work like dogs, only to have some Ahole step in and steal their work from them with an unfair advantage AND then have THEM BANNED when they complain.

 

This is literally what this argument sounds like to non trans people.  Except - while this is a joke, trans people are out there actually ruining people's lives.

 

[Nexii]

Blah blah blah more 'only biological sex matters' simplistic tripe from the far right. Btw, you're deluding yourself if you don't think they'll come for you too. There must always be an other. 

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That's not an assumption.  In fact i'd like to see that banned - mutilating children before they're old enough to consent and destroying their ability to have kids one day should be illegal.
 

And look at all the qualifiers you have to use.  "Basically" no difference - meaning there's a difference and we both know that.  "CLOSER" to being a woman than a man Etc etc.

No.  If there's a reason to divide women and men for sports then they should be divided based on birth sex always.

No ban in the slightest - but they participate in the sport based on their birth sex.  Nobody's saying they can't participate but if they were born male they play with the boys.

 

 

They are hyper competitive people. Nobody who isn't would get anywhere near the top. SO they pour their lives into their sports, work like dogs, only to have some Ahole step in and steal their work from them with an unfair advantage AND then have THEM BANNED when they complain.

 

This is literally what this argument sounds like to non trans people.  Except - while this is a joke, trans people are out there actually ruining people's lives.

 

 

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Blah blah blah more 'only biological sex matters' simplistic tripe from the far right. Btw, you're deluding yourself if you don't think they'll come for you too. There must always be an other. 

 

Blah blah blah don't give a shit about fairness or discussion just want what i want HEY - WADDAYA MEAN the public is turning against me'?!!?!

This is simple. When you're seperating groups based on their biological sex - ONLY BIOLOGICAL SEX MATTERS!!!!!

You have to be seven different kinds of stupid not to get that.

A trans woman is NOT A WOMAN.  No matter how much we PRETEND or try to modify that person, they are NOT a woman biologically.

I get that hurts to hear. I get that your condition makes it very difficult to accept that and any reminder that a trans person is not the same as a biological person is upsetting to trans people by the very nature of their state of mind.

But - it is STILL THE TRUTH. And while we can be accommodating to a degree and I believe people should where it's reasonable, there are GOING to BE TIMES when you have to suck it up and face the truth.  And this is one.

A Bio woman - who has far more right than any trans woman to be actually called a woman - has been pushed aside by trans people and had her rights stomped on and been thrown from her sport because of this foolishness. THat is UNACCEPTABLE - and demonstrates the need for a zero tolerance policy. Give 'em an inch and look what they do.

 

So eff off with your fake tears for men who want to compete against women. Trans women were  BORN a boy and will DIE a boy and hormones don't change that. So there's going to be some limits and learn to cope.

[Nexii]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Blah blah blah don't give a shit about fairness or discussion just want what i want HEY - WADDAYA MEAN the public is turning against me'?!!?!

This is simple. When you're seperating groups based on their biological sex - ONLY BIOLOGICAL SEX MATTERS!!!!!

You have to be seven different kinds of stupid not to get that.

A trans woman is NOT A WOMAN.  No matter how much we PRETEND or try to modify that person, they are NOT a woman biologically.

I get that hurts to hear. I get that your condition makes it very difficult to accept that and any reminder that a trans person is not the same as a biological person is upsetting to trans people by the very nature of their state of mind.

But - it is STILL THE TRUTH. And while we can be accommodating to a degree and I believe people should where it's reasonable, there are GOING to BE TIMES when you have to suck it up and face the truth.  And this is one.

A Bio woman - who has far more right than any trans woman to be actually called a woman - has been pushed aside by trans people and had her rights stomped on and been thrown from her sport because of this foolishness. THat is UNACCEPTABLE - and demonstrates the need for a zero tolerance policy. Give 'em an inch and look what they do.

 

So eff off with your fake tears for men who want to compete against women. Trans women were  BORN a boy and will DIE a boy and hormones don't change that. So there's going to be some limits and learn to cope.

There was a time people said the same about gays like you, that it was a mental disorder and they should be locked up or gassed. But on a more serious note, I can tell you aren't enjoying your Stockholm syndrome at all with more unhinged posts by the day. You act the exact same way that other unhinged LBGT activists act. For most of them it's the wishful thought that if they could just punch all the facists or cancel them, all their past suffering would go away. Only instead in your case it's fantasies about discriminating towards other minorities like trans, for example disowning your own kids for not being honest enough if they were trans. Because deep down you want revenge for the past by inflicting it on others.

It doesn't bother me in the least to say that trans who didn't get hormones/blockers before puberty shouldn't be competing in elite sports. But it does bother you to think that those who did are virtually indiscernable. Because those kids wouldn't have to suffer what you did, and you feel they should have to

[myata]

15 hours ago, Nexii said:

The far right believes male/female is entirely biological

There's reason and science. There's no denying obvious, objective facts of the reality. Sane people around the globe have known it for awhile and recognized it in policies and practices. There's a statistically significant difference in the bodies of those who transitioned before vs after puberty. Arguing with the reality is no more rational or sane than shaman dances, inquisition etc.

Here you go again. When a pure ideology, unbounded by rational checks and reason takes over it becomes insanity. And it does not matter, one grain for what good cause or under what banner, etc.

Edited November 16, 2023 by myata

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

There was a time people said the same about gays like you,

Nobody ever said that about the gays.  ever.

Gays never asked anyone to pretend they were something they weren't. They said "i'm a guy who likes other guys'. Straight up. 

Gays never needed drugs to be gay.  They didn't need operations to be gay. THey didn't need anyone to fake anything.  Gays are what they are. Gays lead happy lives and didn't have particularly high risks of suicide. Gays didn't have gender dysphoria and didn't experience mental health issues from being gay.  Gays wanted to be treated as equals (until recently).  Gays didn't care what anyone else did, they didn't need to compel speech or insist other people used their pronouns and gays DEFINITELY DID NOT demand to play in sports leagues outside of their birth sex or throw other people out of their livelyhoods by pretending to be SOMETHING. THEY. ARE NOT just because someone else woudln't play along.

So no.  Nobody said that about gays. Trans people are not gays. Trans people have a mental health disorder and the rest of us try to be understanding about it and do what we can but  you've gone way too far. 

Competing against women and stealing their hard work? Having them thrown out of their sport for CORRECTLY raising that it's not fair? Contemptible. Utterly contemptible. If this is what 'trans' means - then it's an evil we should be fighting against.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, Nexii said:

There was a time people said the same about gays like you, that it was a mental disorder and they should be locked up or gassed.

I think many aren't of the latter idea. They simply know its a mental disorder. 

They didn't stop calling it a disorder because it stopped being a disorder. They stopped doing so, because it created a stigma. Kind of like being bipolar would have some people see one as being crazy.

Activists knew that if they wanted changes, they had to start at the language, and eventually pressure lawmakers to modify existing legislation. Same reason why "inclusive" talk is pushed heavily on businesses. Same reason terms like chest feeding, are seen as inclusive, even though its physically impossible for a biological male to breastfeed.

If it wasn't, treatment wouldn't be required. 

The high suicide rate points to just that. With or without transitioning.

Activists saw a lot of push back, so went with their textbook solution to this. No. Not facts and logic.

Shaming and playing politics. Making things as vague and murky as possible. Being the squeakiest wheel possible.

If you can routinely force celebrities and businesses to apologize  you create a culture where many will fear challenging what you're doing, even if it's wrong. The consequences must deter dissent.

I see it like the new laws in Hong Kong. Secession, subversion and the like. Potentially punishable by life in prison.

Its kept deliberately vague, as it is easy to make up charges as you go. Has nothing to do with anything more than control via creating fear. It's highly effective.

Just like if I ask how many genders that there are makes me bigoted, but nobody who thinks like this can even quantify an answer on how many that there are.

Nothing wrong with being trans. Be you. 

Something wrong with imposing on people to play along with how one feels inside, when humans will naturally for the most part be able to tell a male and female apart by looking at them.

If you're one of the few that passes under that radar, then you're incredibly lucky.

Most are not, so are faced to deal with that reality.

[Nationalist]

21 hours ago, Nexii said:

Speaking for MtF, if you're on hormones you're going to be a lot closer to a girl in terms of sports performance than a guy. The strength loss is significant, up to half.

But at the elite level it's too much an advantage. An average sized male is 99th percentile for height/weight female. 

It's dangerous and someone is gonna get hurt.

[Nexii]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Nobody ever said that about the gays.  ever.

Gays never asked anyone to pretend they were something they weren't. They said "i'm a guy who likes other guys'. Straight up. 

Gays never needed drugs to be gay.  They didn't need operations to be gay. THey didn't need anyone to fake anything.  Gays are what they are. Gays lead happy lives and didn't have particularly high risks of suicide. Gays didn't have gender dysphoria and didn't experience mental health issues from being gay.  Gays wanted to be treated as equals (until recently).  Gays didn't care what anyone else did, they didn't need to compel speech or insist other people used their pronouns and gays DEFINITELY DID NOT demand to play in sports leagues outside of their birth sex or throw other people out of their livelyhoods by pretending to be SOMETHING. THEY. ARE NOT just because someone else woudln't play along.

So no.  Nobody said that about gays. Trans people are not gays. Trans people have a mental health disorder and the rest of us try to be understanding about it and do what we can but  you've gone way too far. 

Competing against women and stealing their hard work? Having them thrown out of their sport for CORRECTLY raising that it's not fair? Contemptible. Utterly contemptible. If this is what 'trans' means - then it's an evil we should be fighting against.

There are only two kinds of people who care so much about LGBT issues in 2023.

1) Religious nuts, who mostly want to keep to themselves

2) Closeted and/or damaged LGBT people, who end up being crazy activists or anti-activists

You are in camp #2. The majority of trans would not agree with competing in sports universally. It's only the minority, who are the most vocal who get the attention

[Nexii]

8 hours ago, myata said:

There's reason and science. There's no denying obvious, objective facts of the reality. Sane people around the globe have known it for awhile and recognized it in policies and practices. There's a statistically significant difference in the bodies of those who transitioned before vs after puberty. Arguing with the reality is no more rational or sane than shaman dances, inquisition etc.

Here you go again. When a pure ideology, unbounded by rational checks and reason takes over it becomes insanity. And it does not matter, one grain for what good cause or under what banner, etc.

Not sure if you even read all I said. But I said the same, heck I can just look at my own family and say I'm much bigger than any of the females. At the same time being trans female, you aren't even comparable to men in strength and speed.

Organizations come up with nonsense policies because they look to the government, whose policies are also nonsense. They're made up by government bureaucrats that are not transgender or non-binary and therefore have no understanding. Sex/gender are used interchangably on IDs and birth certificates when they are not the same thing for trans and non-binary. A large part of this is because of past discrimination, stigma around the fact that the two can be different. In the long run, we would be better off having both sex and gender on documents/IDs where it's necessary (like medicine, sports), and just gender in the context of everyday life. Or we take the direction of Asian countries and just conflate them into a third gender, but the West doesn't really have the cultural history for that to take off IMO

Edited November 16, 2023 by Nexii

[Perspektiv]

27 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

It's dangerous and someone is gonna get hurt.

They reject science.

Men will typically naturally have quicker muscle reaction that women. More muscle mass.

Typically taller, heavier. This is nature. More facial and body hair.

Pointing to a woman who is 7'2, or one who happens to have a unibrow and a beard doesnt negate this, just like pointing to an albino black male doesn't make me any less black. Doesn't make their case any less of an anomaly, vs the nature and norm. 

In games where fractions of seconds decide a winner and a loser, those advantages are massive.

In washrooms where loopholes can be exploited, where men can now identify as women and no questions asked, be allowed to shower with women, negating their safety. Its lunacy.

"Yeah, but some trans women are passable".

Am quite confident that the bulk of those who get assaulted, are not.

Just like when I once told what I thought was a male, that the "women's washroom is over there", only to be sternly corrected (years before this movement truly caught fire).

I didn't care and apologized and life went on.

Now if I had a daughter in the washroom alone, I can understand the confrontation. Just not the assault.