Complicit in War Crimes

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

What sort of bizarre tangent are you on now?

JEWISH-ZIONIST TERRORISM AND THE ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL

JEWISH TERRORISM AGAINST BRITISH AND ARABS DID CONTRIBUTE HEAVILY TO THE REMOVAL OF THE BRITISH FROM PALESTINE, THE ABANDONMENT OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE AND THE CREATION OF A JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/jewish-zionist-terrorism-and-establishment-israel

Not entirely true , the British mandate was due to expire, and Britian was not going to extend it, and they were leaving regardless....Not saying the attacks did not play a role but the problem was much larger than you suggest....You make it sound like Israel was the only one involved in terrorists attacks on British forces...they were not,  Palestinian had a hand in there as well, as did other Arab forces...

 

[Canadian_Cavalier]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Actually i don't really have any love for israel.  Any support for them is based strictly on my sense of outrage over the attacks, sympathy for then as a group surrounded by violent psychos who want to kill them, and my strong feelings that a country/person has the right to defend themselves against psychotic attackers.

Don't you know how ridiculous this sounds? I could say the same thing.

Actually, I don't really have any love for Palestine. Any support for them is based strictly on my sense of outrage over zionist ethnic cleansing, sympathy for them as a group surrounded by violent colonialists who want to displace them, and my strong feelings that a country/person has to right to self determination against a nation violating international law and building settlements in their own land.

If you want to support Israel, that's fine. I mean I really don't agree with it at all but everyone is entitled to free speech. But at least owe up to it

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I suspect women are seeing all kinds of other red flags there.

Women are less likely to stand with Israel, dramatically so for the ones on the dating market.

[eyeball]

42 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Not saying the attacks did not play a role but the problem was much larger than you suggest.....You make it sound like Israel was the only one involved in terrorists attacks on British forces...

Its not a nothingburger. I think it contributed to a cynical decision by Britain to support what the opposite of the White Paper Policy said - no state of Israel and no subjugation of Palestinians.

I get it that Israel exists and I'm quite certain there are and have been plenty of Palestinians who get it too.

The subjugation is the issue. Its just that simple.

[Legato]

48 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

 

48 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

 

Women are less likely to stand with Israel, dramatically so for the ones on the dating market.

One would need to pose the question...why are they still on the dating market.

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Don't you know how ridiculous this sounds? I could say the same thing.

I know you desperately want it to sound ridiculous but it doesn't.  You've always pled the case from the point of view of palestine and prior injustices and humanity issues etc.  You've made it very clear you're extremely emotionally invested in the Palestinian cause.

I've been very consistent - isreal has a right to defend itself and this threat needs to be eliminated permanently.  i don't care about the history, i don't care about 'zionists' or 'muslims', i don't care who did what in 1948.  I've never been about 'israel'.  You're ALL about paliestine.

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Actually, I don't really have any love for Palestine. Any support for them is based strictly on my sense of outrage over zionist ethnic cleansing, sympathy for them as a group surrounded by violent colonialists who want to displace them, and my strong feelings that a country/person has to right to self determination against a nation violating international law and building settlements in their own land.

And all that is getting wrapped up in the politics. "zionists" is a dead give away, claiming it's ethnic clensing is a dead give away, the whole 'self determination' thing etc etc. You're totally involved in their cause.

I'm simply against people crossing borders, shooting up women and children, and then hiding behind a civillian population. My concerns would be true anywhere - yours are very specific to this circumstance. 

See - that's what happens when you try to parrot people without understanding the discussion.

 

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If you want to support Israel, that's fine. I mean I really don't agree with it at all but everyone is entitled to free speech. But at least owe up to it

I support blowing the crap out of people who cross another country's borders and conduct a mass slaughter of their civillians and burn babies. (i'm a little confused as to why you don't).  If the civillians get in the way, i'm supportive of shooting anyway.   Otherwise you just promote the use of meat shields everywhere.

So - in as much as that's what israel is doing, i support their actions.  But that's not the same as supporting israel.

See - for you this is monochromatic.  The only issue is "is israsel the baddies or are palestine".   For me this is different.  Regardless of history or which country is which the acts of october 7th deserve severe punishment and the capacity to conduct such activity should be ground to dust. 

I'd be pretty much the same if israel just drove into baliestine and randomly killed and burned 1500 people and burnt babies. But they didn't. Palestine did.

It's that simple for me. You're the one trying to justify the unjustifiable

 

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Women are less likely to stand with Israel, dramatically so for the ones on the dating market.

And yet you're alone.  TOLD you it might be something else

Edited November 19, 2023 by CdnFox

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I'd be pretty much the same if israel just drove into baliestine and randomly killed and burned 1500 people and burnt babies. But they didn't. Palestine did.

But Israelis do much the very same thing whenever they expand their settlement of occupied Palestinian territory - this is why people say Oct 7 didn't happen in a vacuum. Choosing to completely dismiss and ignore this is why it'll keep happening. Irradicating Hamas won't change things it'll simply perpetuate them.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

36 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I've never been about 'israel'.

Weird. You've overwhelmingly posted in support of the Zionist narrative. There is nothing more I despise than people hiding behind this thinly-veiled sense of "neutrality" to win arguments when you're clearly not neutral. Your posts overwhelmingly favor the Israeli side and avoid any criticism of Israel whatsoever. Even I've said in the past that I don't support Hamas and a peace talk needs to start with them releasing hostages.

Israel is indirectly responsible for the actions of Hamas because it helped create it.  You never acknowledge this, portraying Hamas as this uniquely wicked creation by the evil Palestinians who all need to be burned to the ground.

46 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I'd be pretty much the same if israel just drove into baliestine and randomly killed and burned 1500 people and burnt babies. But they didn't.

They're already doing this with illegal West Bank settlements and have been for a long time, and I have seen nothing of it from you. Like I said, your overwhelmingly pro-Zionist posts do not give any impression that Israel has ever done anything wrong in any of its history. I know this isn't a question about self defense because you denied that Ukraine has the right to do that. This is about your fanatical defenses of Israel because your evangelical pastor and fox news told you to like them.

51 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And yet you're alone.  TOLD you it might be something else

I'm not alone. There's a reason I take breaks from this forum unlike you. I have a life.

[suds]

Before any serious peace talks can begin Hamas has got to go.  They can release all the hostages they want but they still have to go. The  Palestinians must realize that. I've asked before if anyone actually believed that Hamas was doing the Palestinians any good in Gaza and only one reply to the contrary. Or has something changed between then and now?

[Canadian_Cavalier]

26 minutes ago, suds said:

Before any serious peace talks can begin Hamas has got to go.  They can release all the hostages they want but they still have to go. The  Palestinians must realize that. I've asked before if anyone actually believed that Hamas was doing the Palestinians any good in Gaza and only one reply to the contrary. Or has something changed between then and now?

Since half of the population of Gaza is under 18, they weren't even alive when Hamas was barely voted in. Israel promoted Hamas in its early history in order to defeat what was then a secular Palestinian liberation movement.

Israel's strategy is like dumping a bag of cockroaches into your neighbors house and lighting it on fire the next day to get rid of them.

Many Palestinians will still support Hamas as long as western countries unconditionally support Israel and Israel continues to condone illegal West Bank settlements.

[eyeball]

27 minutes ago, suds said:

I've asked before if anyone actually believed that Hamas was doing the Palestinians any good in Gaza and only one reply to the contrary. Or has something changed between then and now?

No, extreme right-wing Palestinian parties clearly don't do Palestinians any more good than overtly right-wing parties do Israel any good... that's why they're made for one another.

[suds]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, extreme right-wing Palestinian parties clearly don't do Palestinians any more good than overtly right-wing parties do Israel any good... that's why they're made for one another.

Perhaps, but what about accountability to those you claim to represent? When was the last time an election took place in Gaza? When everything is said and done you deserve the type of leadership you vote for. Would you agree with that?

[suds]

44 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Since half of the population of Gaza is under 18, they weren't even alive when Hamas was barely voted in. Israel promoted Hamas in its early history in order to defeat what was then a secular Palestinian liberation movement.

Israel's strategy is like dumping a bag of cockroaches into your neighbors house and lighting it on fire the next day to get rid of them.

Many Palestinians will still support Hamas as long as western countries unconditionally support Israel and Israel continues to condone illegal West Bank settlements.

If progress is to be made then you have to deal with the present and not the past. I'm sure Israel made mistakes, I'm sure the Ottomans made mistakes, I'm sure the British made mistakes, I'm sure other Arab countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon made mistakes, and I'm sure the average Palestinian got screwed around by just about every last one of them and they're still getting screwed around. I'm against Israel's building of West Bank settlements, but they built settlements in Gaza too didn't they? And when they voluntarily withdrew from Gaza they left everything standing didn't they? I can't guarantee the same thing is going to happen with the West Bank but it's something that could be negotiated I would have to believe.

Edited November 19, 2023 by suds

[eyeball]

12 minutes ago, suds said:

Perhaps, but what about accountability to those you claim to represent? When was the last time an election took place in Gaza? When everything is said and done you deserve the type of leadership you vote for. Would you agree with that?

Not if my so-called leaders hadn't given me a chance to vote in nearly 15 years. Thank outside political interference from Iran for that. And Israel too for supporting Hamas as a Palestinian counterweight to left wing secular Palestinians.

An irrational obsessive fear of the left and secularism has infected the entire planet and scrambled the capacity to think straight everywhere. Its become the bane of human existence.

Just perhaps you say? Hamas, Netanyahu, illegal extremist settlers, Hezbollah, Iran...they all go together like a bag of hard-boiled freezer-burned mixed-vegetables. Garbage iow.

 

[suds]

41 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Not if my so-called leaders hadn't given me a chance to vote in nearly 15 years. Thank outside political interference from Iran for that. And Israel too for supporting Hamas as a Palestinian counterweight to left wing secular Palestinians.

An irrational obsessive fear of the left and secularism has infected the entire planet and scrambled the capacity to think straight everywhere. Its become the bane of human existence.

Just perhaps you say? Hamas, Netanyahu, illegal extremist settlers, Hezbollah, Iran...they all go together like a bag of hard-boiled freezer-burned mixed-vegetables. Garbage iow.

 

Well that's the Middle East for you as I've tried to demonstrate in one of my previous posts.  And you would be wrong to believe I'm placing blame for the present situation solely on the Palestinians. From 1948 on, the Arab League made almost all of the key decisions for them and many didn't turn out so well likely due to domestic political concerns. You've had Arabs fighting Turks, Sunnis fighting Shiites,  Christians and Jews fighting Arabs and Turks, a declining Ottoman empire, mass migrations of refugees, world war, and then throw in Arab nationalism, Zionism, Islamism, the holy lands, and you're sitting on a powder keg waiting for a spark to set things off. Is anyone actually surprised by all the violence and hostility that's gone on over the last two centuries? In the end the British knew the Jews and Palestinians couldn't live together under the same roof and it was pretty evident to most observers. But as I've said before...that's the Middle East for you.

Edited November 19, 2023 by suds

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

But Israelis do much the very same thing whenever they expand their settlement of occupied Palestinian territory - this is why people say Oct 7 didn't happen in a vacuum. Choosing to completely dismiss and ignore this is why it'll keep happening. Irradicating Hamas won't change things it'll simply perpetuate them.

But but but but..   but you want it to be justifiable for what Gaza did. It isn't. I don't give a shit about what happened at some point in the past.  This is what happened today. If we were talking about the israelis driiving into gaza and shooting up thousands of women and children and burning babies unprovoked with no military target... then i guarantee i'd be just as pissed at them.

But i find that these claims of "did the same thing" always turn out to be false anyway.

The ONLY reason this keeps happening is that the Gazans are genocidal and refuse to sit down and find a way to peace. Period.  That's why this keeps happening.

DO you remember 2 months ago when they said they'd like to sit down to peace talks and were willing to accept the israeli nation is legit and look for a way forward peacefully for their people? And then they got rebuffed so this was their only option?

Yeah - ME NEITHER.

They CHOOSE violence - it's their preferred method of negotiating.  And now Israel is "negotiating' them into rubble and dead bodies.  Which obviously is what  is going to happen.

 

There is NO excuses, there's NO  'but but but but", there is no world where what they did is acceptable or where they should be allowed to live in peace after doing that until it's guaranteed they won't do it again.

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, suds said:

From 1948 on, the Arab League made almost all of the key decisions for them and many didn't turn out so well likely due to domestic political concerns. You've had Arabs fighting Turks, Sunnis fighting Shiites,  Christians and Jews fighting Arabs and Turks, a declining Ottoman empire, mass migrations of refugees, world war, and then throw in Arab nationalism, Zionism, Islamism, the holy lands, and you're sitting on a powder keg

Honestly tho suds - this is kind of all bullshit.

that stuff happened and that's all bad. But - those are the choices of the past, nothing can be done about those.  We live here in the present, and right now people have choices. Those people had the ability to make a decision that they would set aside violence and look for peaceful resolution - or they could chose death and killing and their own people getting blown up.

we know what they chose.  It' doen't matter if people in the past made good decisions or bad decisions - today as rational thinking adults humans we have 100 percent responsibility for the decisions we make right now, and this was the decision they made.

They had choices. They could have chose peace. They chose this. 100 percent of the blame is on them.

[suds]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Honestly tho suds - this is kind of all bullshit.

that stuff happened and that's all bad. But - those are the choices of the past, nothing can be done about those.  We live here in the present, and right now people have choices. Those people had the ability to make a decision that they would set aside violence and look for peaceful resolution - or they could chose death and killing and their own people getting blown up.

we know what they chose.  It' doen't matter if people in the past made good decisions or bad decisions - today as rational thinking adults humans we have 100 percent responsibility for the decisions we make right now, and this was the decision they made.

They had choices. They could have chose peace. They chose this. 100 percent of the blame is on them.

I wouldn't call it 'bullshit' because all the stuff I mentioned actually did happen. What I was trying to say was ..... you can't lay blame on the Israelis for everything. And I still maintain the same thing about the Palestinians. We both agree that they both have to forget the past and deal with the present. And I would think we both agree that Hamas doesn't fit in to any future negotiations outside of the release of hostages.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, suds said:

I wouldn't call it 'bullshit' because all the stuff I mentioned actually did happen.

Well to clarify i didn't mean that you were making something up or that it didn't happen, sorry if it read that way. I mean it's utterly irrelevant to what's happening right now as far as who's responsible for what's happening.

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What I was trying to say was ..... you can't lay blame on the Israelis for everything. And I still maintain the same thing about the Palestinians. We both agree that they both have to forget the past and deal with the present. And I would think we both agree that Hamas doesn't fit in to any future negotiations outside of the release of hostages.

Yeah, i got what you were trying to say and i see why you would say it.  I think we agree with much of the rest,  our difference is that i do blame the people who decided to start a war for their decision to start the war, and i do so 100 percent.  I think playing this "well it's partly israel's fault" game just lets criminals off the hook for their bad decisions,  It smaks of that kind of thinking that gives us "it's not my fault i committed this crime, my father went to a residential school".   Ok - but you still chose to commit the crime.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

[suds]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

Fair enough. Anyways that's it for me, no way I'm in your league.

[Gaétan]

It is unbelievable that Putin is being charged with war crimes by the international tribunal while no charges are being brought against Netanyahu and his accomplices. Sign and share the petition to have charges laid against Israel's accomplices in Canada:

Intention to prosecute Canadian officials for aiding and abetting Israel’s war crimes - Action Network

[Canadian_Cavalier]

44 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

It is unbelievable that Putin is being charged with war crimes by the international tribunal while no charges are being brought against Netanyahu and his accomplices. Sign and share the petition to have charges laid against Israel's accomplices in Canada:

Intention to prosecute Canadian officials for aiding and abetting Israel’s war crimes - Action Network

Putin invaded a sovereign country, simple as.

There is no evidence any of Eastern or South Ukraine wanted to join Russia aside from a few rigged referenda.

And Russia didn't just try to take them. In the early parts of the war they took parts of North Ukraine adjacent to Belarus.

Russia cannot understand that sovereign countries can now make their own decisions, and it turns out a lot of them hate being in the Russian sphere of influence because it means being a poor, authoritarian state where most people still live in commie blocks.

Just look at the GDP difference between the Baltic States, which aggressively cut ties with Russia after 1991 vs Belarus, which only deepened them.

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I think playing this "well it's partly israel's fault" game just lets criminals off the hook for their bad decisions.

That's because you say it's entirely Palestine's fault and Israel is entirely blameless. Good luck with that.

Edited November 19, 2023 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, suds said:

Fair enough. Anyways that's it for me, no way I'm in your league.

I used to say i was in a league of my own, till i realized that just meant i was playing with myself.

(ba dump bump! Tip yer waitresses folks, i'm here all week...)

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Gaétan said:

It is unbelievable that Putin is being charged with war crimes by the international tribunal while no charges are being brought against Netanyahu and his accomplices.

Putin attacked another country without provocation and deliberately targeted their civilians

Now - who does that remind you of?  

You cite that, then claim that israel who's responding to the attack should be charged - but ZERO MENTION from you about charging hamas or it's people with war crimes, when they did precisely what putin did. 

 

And you expect ANYONE to take you seriously?

[Gaétan]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Putin attacked another country without provocation and deliberately targeted their civilians

Now - who does that remind you of?  

You cite that, then claim that israel who's responding to the attack should be charged - but ZERO MENTION from you about charging hamas or it's people with war crimes, when they did precisely what putin did. 

 

And you expect ANYONE to take you seriously?

Israeli settlers kill Palestinians every day, so Hamas has assumed that Israel must repay their debts.