What if Israeli leaders and intel knew about the attack in advance and let it succeed in order to quash Netanyahu's legal problems, ensure his plan to destroy the supreme court and gain an excuse to wipe out Hamas?.

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 minutes ago, robosmith said:

They may have received "support" from "a much larger number," but very few knew the actual plan details.

Looking back at 9/11, one might say there was a failure of imagination by the Americans. Bin Laden had made his intentions clear but they just couldn’t see how he could carry out attacks in the US. On the other hand, there’s only so much a free society is prepared to do to surveil the population and that’s a good thing. 

[Legato]

7 hours ago, NYLefty said:

I'm not saying lefties aren't prone to an occasional conspiracy fable.

Would that be Occasional Cortez.

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

The Jews actually had as much more history in Israel than the muslims had in Pakistan when it was formed at almost the exact same time (8 months apart). 

The only difference is that the pakistanis publicly executed people by hanging them, burning them alive, etc.

The Pakistanis killed as many as 2m people in a massive genocide. The Israelis never committed any genocides. 

The Pakistanis committed another genocide in 1971, killing another 3M people.

None of the ME countries have any problem with Pakistan. They don't attack them, they don't support terrorist attacks them, nothing. They have full, normal diplomatic relations with Pakistan and treat them as well as any other country. 

People like @robosmith have no problem with Pakistan. People like robo are stupid. 

I was going to speak further on Israel having more history as well. 

Abraham predates all of Islam, and he was a Jew. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Deluge

[CdnFox]

51 minutes ago, Legato said:

Would that be Occasional Cortez.

Certainly not the Cerebral Cortez.

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I was going to speak further on Israel having more history as well. 

Abraham predates all of Islam, and he was a Jew. 

Yeah but who cares? 

Let's say isreal has NO historic right to the land, we've got a note from god proving it. 

They're still there right now! ' However they got there - they're there!!  They're not going away, there's no where else for them to go - that's what we're dealing with today,

And same for the palestinians. People can argue till their blue in the face but that's the reality we face right now.

So - either the two Accept that, set the past aside and decide to find a way to live in peace OR - they duke it out till one side or the other is dead.

Palestine seems to have chosen the latter route.

Edited October 10, 2023 by CdnFox

[Deluge]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah but who cares? 

Let's say isreal has NO historic right to the land, we've got a note from god proving it. 

They're still there right now! ' However they got there - they're there!!  They're not going away, there's no where else for them to go - that's what we're dealing with today,

And same for the palestinians. People can argue till their blue in the face but that's the reality we face right now.

So - either the two Accept that, set the past aside and decide to find a way to live in peace OR - they duke it out till one side or the other is dead.

Palestine seems to have chosen the latter route.

Whether it's help from the US or the UN, biblically speaking, the Christian temple is going to be built at or over the dome of the rock, and Islam will go apeshit and bring the rest of the world in on their psychotic conflict. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

You don't get to determine what I "have no problem with," and your gratuitous claims make you the stupid person here.

You don't even know about Netanyahu's legal problems and his attempts to dismantle the Israeli supreme court. LMAO

Your attempt to distill "the problem" into simple minded pablum makes you look even more stupid.

I've always known you to be a liar and a piece of trash, but I never thought of you as actually being evil until today. 

1) Of course I know what you're ok with: you're ok with Pakistan's genocides.

2) I said that Netanyahu's legal problems have nothing to do with Hamas's evil.

3) The "problem" is obvious: religious bigots are cozy with Pakistan after two genocides in the millions, and they want Israel eradicated just because they keep defending themselves. 

Get it? 

Of course not, you didn't see it on Al Jazeera. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

Whether it's help from the US or the UN, biblically speaking, the Christian temple is going to be built at or over the dome of the rock, and Islam will go apeshit and bring the rest of the world in on their psychotic conflict. 

I see what you're saying,  We should bash them right in their dome with a rock.  I like your thinking

At the end of the day - either this gets resolved in peace or through violence, and we can do it all at once or spend another century painfully peeling back the bandaid. It would seem one of the parties involved has made a choice - so i think there's no point in arguing the past, now this needs to be resolved permanently by violence.

[Deluge]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I see what you're saying,  We should bash them right in their dome with a rock.  I like your thinking

At the end of the day - either this gets resolved in peace or through violence, and we can do it all at once or spend another century painfully peeling back the bandaid. It would seem one of the parties involved has made a choice - so i think there's no point in arguing the past, now this needs to be resolved permanently by violence.

That's certainly how it looks.  

Netanyahu did say that the area was going to look a lot different when he got through with it, so buckle up folks! 

[Aristides]

15 hours ago, robosmith said:

Then neither was Israel, From Nat Geo 1947 image:

 

"Special committee on Palestine"

 

I"m not saying Palestinians shouldn't have a state because I do, just that they have never had one.

A fundamental condition for the establishment of such a state would have to be peace with  Israel and a guarantee that it won't be used for attacks on Israel by other groups.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, Deluge said:

That's certainly how it looks.  

Netanyahu did say that the area was going to look a lot different when he got through with it, so buckle up folks! 

Yes - i'd guess he meant the elevation of the gaza strip would decrease by about 10 feet and a new small island will appear as if by magic off the coast of isreal, which will henceforth be known as Faafo island.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Organizations adapt. Hamas absorbed their own previous failings with informers and kept the big picture knowledge of this operation among as few as possible. Most of those involved would have had no idea what they were training for or when. They also went to great pains to portray a passive posture to the Israelis, giving them the impression they weren’t in a position to launch a large assault. As with 9/11, there’s no need to propose a bizarre conspiracy to explain an intelligence failure against a resourceful enemy with nothing else to think about. The IRA put it this way after the Brighton bombing that almost killed Margaret Thatcher:  “You have to be lucky all the time. We only have to be lucky once.” 

 

You're comparing planting one bomb to a coordinated land, sea and air assault involving several thousands of people. Israel knew, maybe not down to the minute, but they knew to within a week, probably even the hour. 

[Deluge]

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yes - i'd guess he meant the elevation of the gaza strip would decrease by about 10 feet and a new small island will appear as if by magic off the coast of isreal, which will henceforth be known as Faafo island.

Moving massive amounts of dirt for an island? Sounds too labor intensive and violent - even it were magical. 

It'll be much better to move earth for terrorist graves.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Moving massive amounts of dirt for an island? Sounds too labor intensive and violent

A few nukes stragegically placed can solve the labour problem.  Dig down a bit, Flip the buggers like a pancake

[Deluge]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

A few nukes stragegically placed can solve the labour problem.  Dig down a bit, Flip the buggers like a pancake

I guess if we corralled all the terrorists and forced them into heavy labor camps, we could make them move earth. That would be the best solution because we wouldn't have to waste nukes.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Deluge

[TreeBeard]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:33 PM, robosmith said:

The success of Hamas is similarly suspicious due to the superior reputation of Israeli intelligence.

Because of that, I believe it is more likely plans for the attack were known than not.

9/11 was an inside job?

 

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I guess if we corralled all the terrorists and forced them into heavy labor camps, we could make them move earth. That would be the best solution because we wouldn't have to waste nukes.

Sigh. You never let me nuke anything.

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You're comparing planting one bomb to a coordinated land, sea and air assault involving several thousands of people. Israel knew, maybe not down to the minute, but they knew to within a week, probably even the hour. 

I don’t find this claim plausible at all. If they knew they would have done something about it. Bear in mind Hamas doesn’t have aircraft carriers to hide. These land, air and sea assaults were decidedly low tech. What it does have is an extraordinary network of tunnels. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[WestCanMan]

44 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I don’t find claim plausible at all. If they knew they would have done something about it. 

What can they do? Arrest a few people and charge them with planning an attack, so that they become martyrs of "EVIL ISRAELI OCCUPATION!!!"? 

The Israelis can only arrest so many people for 'almost putting their hands in the cookie jar'. Once in a while you have to catch them in the act.

Of course they have to catch the terrorists when they are trying to plant nukes or something, but in this case, the Israelis got a chance to catch them in an act which cost a few hundred lives, and which showed just how vile Hamas and their supporters really are. 

Why do you have to 'catch them in the act', you say?

Because this is what people like ExFlyer and the rest of the muslim world say:

Quote

Ambassador Zaman Mehdi, the deputy permanent representative of Pakistan to the U.N. in Geneva was seen in a post by the U.N. on X, formerly known as Twitter, speaking to members of the Human Rights Council just before a moment of silence.

Quote

"On behalf of the IOC member states, we express our deep concerns over the loss of innocent lives in the occupied Palestinian territory and elsewhere," Mehdi said.

Quote

"Regrettably, this huge loss of lives and unabated violence is a sad reminder of more than seven decades of illegal foreign occupation, aggression and disrespect for the international law, including UNESCO resolutions."

1) How does it feel to have a f'ing Pakistani speaking down to you? They slaughter people by the millions whenever they feel like it. If you google "systemic genocidal rape" Pakistan comes up, I'm not even kidding. 

2) How are the Palestinians suddenly the only innocent victims here?

3) "Several decades of illegal occupation, aggression, and disrespect for international law"... says Pakistan. If Satan came to earth, he'd go to Pakistan and change nothing. 

The reason that Israel has to 'catch them in the act' is because people think that #3 is really a thing until they see what the Israelis are up against. They need to see what kind of animals they deal with on a day-to-day basis, and what happens if they let their guard down.

If they just keep arresting people before this stuff happens, they just keep accumulating examples of what muslims call "more than seven decades of illegal foreign occupation, aggression and disrespect for the international law"...

Edited October 10, 2023 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Deluge said:

I guess if we corralled all the terrorists and forced them into heavy labor camps, we could make them move earth. That would be the best solution because we wouldn't have to waste nukes.

About fifteen years ago, maybe more, my wife and I saw on the news that there was a terrorist attack in China by some muslims. They cut about 30 people up at a subway platform with swords. 

My wife was aghast, as was I initially, but then I just laughed at the terrorists. 

Next thing you know a million of them were making license plates. 

[Deluge]

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

About fifteen years ago, maybe more, my wife and I saw on the news that there was a terrorist attack in China by some muslims. They cut about 30 people up at a subway platform with swords. 

My wife was aghast, as was I initially, but then I just laughed at the terrorists. 

Next thing you know a million of them were making license plates. 

I've always felt that heavy labor is the best form of punishment there is, because it forces lazy a$$es to do what they hate most, which is honest labor, and society gets to benefit from their work.

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

What can they do? Arrest a few people and charge them with planning an attack, so that they become martyrs of "EVIL ISRAELI OCCUPATION!!!"? 

The Israelis can only arrest so many people for 'almost putting their hands in the cookie jar'. Once in a while you have to catch them in the act.

Of course they have to catch the terrorists when they are trying to plant nukes or something, but in this case, the Israelis got a chance to catch them in an act which cost a few hundred lives, and which showed just how vile Hamas and their supporters really are. 

Why do you have to 'catch them in the act', you say?

Because this is what people like ExFlyer and the rest of the muslim world say:

1) How does it feel to have a f'ing Pakistani speaking down to you? They slaughter people by the millions whenever they feel like it. If you google "systemic genocidal rape" Pakistan comes up, I'm not even kidding. 

2) How are the Palestinians suddenly the only innocent victims here?

3) "Several decades of illegal occupation, aggression, and disrespect for international law"... says Pakistan. If Satan came to earth, he'd go to Pakistan and change nothing. 

The reason that Israel has to 'catch them in the act' is because people think that #3 is really a thing until they see what the Israelis are up against. They need to see what kind of animals they deal with on a day-to-day basis, and what happens if they let their guard down.

If they just keep arresting people before this stuff happens, they just keep accumulating examples of what muslims call "more than seven decades of illegal foreign occupation, aggression and disrespect for the international law"...

Well, offhand even I can think of a few things to do if an attack was feared that would not involve arresting anybody: sending extra troops to the border; improving the barrier, giving it more utility facing towards Israel if breached; building in greater redundancy in the communications system. 

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

About fifteen years ago, maybe more, my wife and I saw on the news that there was a terrorist attack in China by some muslims. They cut about 30 people up at a subway platform with swords. 

My wife was aghast, as was I initially, but then I just laughed at the terrorists. 

Next thing you know a million of them were making license plates. 

Millions of Muslims were imprisoned and tortured by a totalitarian state, you mean. Have no doubt they’ll do the same in Canada to all of us if they get the chance. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[WestCanMan]

11 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Well, offhand even I can think of a few things to do if an attack was feared that would not involve arresting anybody: sending extra troops to the border; improving the barrier, giving it more utility facing towards Israel if breached; building in greater redundancy in the communications system.

IMO the Israelis wanted to build resolve. They know what's up, but the rest of the world doesn't. 

If the attack didn't happen this year, and it was deferred another ten years, could Israel still win a major victory against Hamas and Iran? Maybe not. 

Quote

Millions of Muslims were imprisoned and tortured by a totalitarian state, you mean. Have no doubt they’ll do the same in Canada to all of us if they get the chance. 

I'm not gonna cry for any culture that feels like committing terrorist attacks is the best way to deal with others. 

The last thing that I'd do as a Canadian is go to China and murder civilians on behalf of my people. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 10/9/2023 at 12:51 PM, Aristides said:

The British also warned Stalin about Germany attacking but didn't want to reveal their source which was Ultra. Stalin chose not to believe it. Things are much clearer after the fact when you can string a bunch of things together that seemed unrelated at the time.

Like most dictators, Stalin was preoccupied by the threat of enemies within the state; bizarrely, his purge of the army even continued after war broke out!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Red_Army_Purge#:~:text=On 29 January 1942%2C forty,were sentenced to death by

Warnings from Britain of an impending German invasion would have carried little weight with him - desperate for allies, they would say that, wouldn’t they? - but abundant evidence of a much stronger variety was closer at hand:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13862135

Why did he deny all this to himself? He must have known that his own actions had weakened the army. Facing the reality that he had weakened his country at such a critical moment may have been too painful to contemplate. When Hitler did invade, Stalin eventually fled to his dacha and thought a deputation that included General Zhukov had arrived to depose him rather than bring him back to Moscow. 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[myata]

If it was known in advance, it would have leaked out on the first day, given the scale of the atrocities. The only other possibility is that Israel has become a seriously authoritarian state. Not quite likely, in my personal opinion.