Waffen SS Veteran Gets Standing Ovation In House Of Commons

[Canadian_Cavalier]

I support Ukraine and recognize how complicated Ukrainian nationalist movements of that time period were.

But the folks who keep calling Pierre a Natsee without any evidence here sure are quiet on this...

Yaroslav Hunka is a 98 year old veteran of the Waffen SS's 14th Grenadier Division, which was made up of mostly ethnic Ukrainians from the west of the country. AP calls it the "First Ukrainian Division".

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Yaroslav Hunka is a 98 year old veteran of the Waffen SS's 14th Grenadier Division

Do you know anything about that particular division?  
 

Who they fought?  (Russians)

Why they only fought against the Bolsheviks, and not the Allies?  
 

Are you ignoring the history on purpose, or just out of ignorance?  Do you always shit on 98 year old war veterans?

Edited September 24, 2023 by TreeBeard

[Canadian_Cavalier]

10 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Do you know anything about that particular division?  
 

Who they fought?  (Russians)

Why they only fought against the Bolsheviks, and not the Allies?  
 

Are you ignoring the history on purpose, or just out of ignorance?

They fought against the Red Army, which had a sizeable amount of Ukrainians in it too. Russia as an independent state did not exist.

Fighting Bolsheviks doesn't make their persecutions of Galician Poles and Jews justified. Their war crimes are well documented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta_Pieniacka_massacre 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidkamin_massacre 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palikrowy_massacre 

Do you always defend the Waffen SS?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Canadian_Cavalier

[TreeBeard]

39 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

They fought against the Red Army, which had a sizeable amount of Ukrainians in it too. Russia as an independent state did not exist.

Fighting Bolsheviks doesn't make their persecutions of Galician Poles and Jews justified. Their war crimes are well documented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta_Pieniacka_massacre 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidkamin_massacre 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palikrowy_massacre 

Do you always defend the Waffen SS?

None of those mention the war crimes of Hunka.  You have evidence that he committed war crimes, don’t you? 

[Canadian_Cavalier]

5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

None of those mention the war crimes of Hunka.  You have evidence that he committed war crimes, don’t you? 

No, I don't. If he didn't commit war crimes and was just forced to join, then maybe he's fine. He's also 98 years old, so not much we can do now.

The point is that if it were anyone else, liberals would be the first to be outraged. They've called Poilievre a Natsee and Fascist multiple times without evidence yet will not condemn someone who served in the Waffen SS.

[August1991]

3 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

I support Ukraine....

 

I too support Ukraine.

But I oppose strongly death and destruction.

[TreeBeard]

53 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

They've called Poilievre

Who?

[Canadian_Cavalier]

25 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Who?

Search #PierrePoilievreIsAFascist on Twitter and you'll see loads of people.

[myata]

To the people they enslaved Stalin's communist were just as brutal as Nazis (or worse?). And that's not just Ukraine, most of Eastern Europe learned it on their own skin. That's just too bad being caught between two such hellish evils. When you tried something like that, you could judge them.

[Aristides]

The Finns fought the Soviets as well, for the same reasons. SS Division Wiking. Now they are our NATO allies.

[myata]

On 9/23/2023 at 11:43 PM, August1991 said:

But I oppose strongly death and destruction.

Then (if you are saying that you mean) you have to be opposing Putin's aggression, that is causing all of the death and destruction? And then, you will have to admit that the only way to stop it (death and destruction) is to defeat Russia's aggression, simply because he did not and wouldn't stop it any other way.

You are opposing Putin's aggression: check?

You agree that the normal and sane world has to defeat Putin: check?

Edited September 25, 2023 by myata

[SpankyMcFarland]

People in wartime Eastern Europe faced ghastly moral dilemmas we have been spared. 

[Kiraly]

espritdecorps.ca

Liberals likely working on damage control. Expect to hear an announcement soon.

 

[Canadian_Cavalier]

6 hours ago, Aristides said:

The Finns fought the Soviets as well, for the same reasons. SS Division Wiking. Now they are our NATO allies.

As an Eastern European Canadian this is where I draw the line. Finland unfortunately had to be on the same "side" as Germany for most of the war but it was fighting independently with its own army. Finland later fought against Germany in the Lapland War with very little Soviet support.

When you have someone who was part of the Waffen SS and not an independent army, that's where you must consider things. Especially since this guy spoke on the eve of Yom Kippur, lol.

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Do you know anything about that particular division?  
 

Who they fought?  (Russians)

Why they only fought against the Bolsheviks, and not the Allies?  
 

Are you ignoring the history on purpose, or just out of ignorance?  Do you always shit on 98 year old war veterans?

"If" he was a member of the 14 th SS div. Then The Nuremburg trails condemned  the entire SS organization of the Germany military was a pronounced Criminals...not veterans, not soldiers  but criminals... the fact that these men were allowed into Canada does not make their crimes any less. Another note Most German soldiers that were identified as SS were normally shot on site by allied soldiers ... How does this man deserve any better treatment ? Certainly not honored in our parliament...But this seems to be common Liberal party practice to honor the unwanted with out even a security check...including inviting terrorists into Parliament.

14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) - Wikipedia

[Dougie93]

42 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

"If" he was a member of the 14 th SS div.

The Galicia Division was a Ukrainian military formation within the German armed forces in the Second World War, created in Western Ukraine (specifically the Galicia District of the German-occupied Generalgouvernement) to fight on the Eastern front against Soviet forces.

The formation was created as the 14th division of the “Armed SS” (Waffen-SS), one of many Waffen-SS divisions composed of non-German volunteers and conscripts in various countries occupied by Germany. Its creation was announced on 28 April 1943 in Lviv, and had the support of Galician Ukrainian leaders who viewed the division as the potential nucleus of a future Ukrainian national army. Initially, the division consisted mainly of Ukrainians from Galicia, but subsequently it also took on recruits from other parts of Ukraine, including Soviet army personnel taken prisoner by the Germans.

From July 1943 to June 1944 the recruits were trained in camps in Germany and other European countries occupied by Germany. In July 1944 the division, as part of the German 13th Army Corps, fought in a battle near Brody (about 100 km east of Lviv) against advancing Soviet forces. The corps was surrounded and destroyed. Of the 10,000-11,000 soldiers of the Galicia Division who took part in the battle, several thousand were killed or taken prisoner, some merged with the local population and others escaped the encirclement. A significant number of those who survived the battle joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, while about 3,000 returned to the division.

After Brody, a new division was formed, comprising the soldiers who returned from the battle, an existing training and reserve regiment and new recruits. Training of this so-called “Second Division” began in Neuhammer (Świętoszów in present-day Poland). In October 1944 it was transferred to Slovakia, where the training continued, and where some units were deployed against Soviet and pro-Soviet partisans. In mid-January 1945 the division numbered 14,000 soldiers and 8,000 new recruits in the training and reserve regiment. At the end of January and beginning of February the division was relocated to Slovenia where, together with German units, it fought against Tito’s communist partisans. In early April it was moved to the eastern front in Austria, where it successfully fought back against Soviet forces which had broken through the front line between Feldbach and Gleichenberg.

In March 1945 the Germans announced the creation of a Ukrainian National Army (UNA), which was to incorporate the Galicia Division. On 25 April the soldiers of the division swore an oath of allegiance to the Ukrainian people before the UNA commander, General Pavlo Shandruk. The division thereby officially ceased to be part of the Waffen-SS and became the 1st Ukrainian Division of the UNA. In the final weeks of the war, however, with the organisation of the UNA still in its early stages, the division remained under German operational control.

At the beginnning of May 1945, when Germany’s capitulation was immiment, it was decided that, to avoid capture by Soviet forces, the division should surrender to the British 8th Army, which had already entered Austria. Representatives of the division were sent to make contact with the British, and arrangements for the surrender were agreed. On 8 May, a few hours before the German surrender to the USSR, the division was ordered to retreat from the front. Most of its personnel (about 10,000 men) surrendered to the British and were interned in Italy before being subsequently transferred to the UK. About 1,000 members of the division crossed into Southern Germany, surrendered to US forces, and were interned in US camps in Germany and Austria.

Former soldiers of the Galicia Division – approximately 8,500 Ukrainians who, during the Second World War, fought in the ranks of the Galicia Division formed as part of the German armed forces, and who were transferred to the United Kingdom after the war.

In May 1945, when Germany surrendered to the Allied Powers, the Galicia Division was based in Austria. Retreating westwards to avoid capture by the advancing Soviet Red Army, most of its members (about 10,000) surrendered to the British Army and were temporarily interned near Spittal. The Soviet authorities claimed that the Ukrainian members of the division were Soviet citizens and demanded their repatriation to the USSR on the basis of an agreement reached at the Yalta Conference in February 1945. The British government’s position, however, was that the agreement only applied to persons who were Soviet citizens before September 1939, and therefore did not apply to the majority of the division's members, who were originally from pre-war Polish-ruled Galicia. Only the relatively small number of those who came from the pre-war USSR were subject to the agreement, but even in these cases the British government was reluctant to enforce repatriation.

In May and at the beginning of June 1945 the division was transferred to Italy and interned in a camp near Bellaria on the Italian east coast. There, about 1,000 division members were persuaded by a Soviet repatriation commission to return to the Soviet Union voluntarily. In October 1945 the remaining members of the division were moved to a camp near Rimini, a short distance from Bellaria.

From the end of 1945 the British government began to consider how to deal with the division’s members in the longer term. The matter became more urgent in February 1947 when the Allied Powers signed the Treaty of Peace with Italy, due to come into force in September of the same year. Britain did not wish to leave the division behind after removing its troops from Italy, fearing the Italian government might succumb to Soviet demands for the forced repatriation of the Ukrainians. On 1 April 1947 the British Cabinet took the decision to transfer the division to the UK. Whereas in Italy its members were designated surrendered enemy personnel, upon transfer to the UK they were reclassified as prisoners of war.

During May and June of 1947, 8,570 Ukrainians were transported by sea from Venice to Britain. The group included 17 female nurses, a number of priests and several civilian relatives of members of the division. The ex-soldiers were accommodated in prisoner-of-war camps, mainly in eastern England and southern Scotland. Most were engaged to work as agricultural labourers, where they earned a reputation as conscientious workers.

The transfer of the division to the UK was initially viewed by the British government as a temporary measure forced upon them by circumstances, rather than a long term solution, and discussions about the future of the ex-soldiers continued. The Home Office, in particular, sought opportunities for removing them from the UK. The possibility of transferring groups of the men to Canada, the USA and Argentina were investigated, but proved unrealistic at the time. In November 1947 the Ministry of Agriculture began to consider the possibility of including some of the ex-soldiers in the European Volunteer Workers (EVW) scheme, under which it was recruiting workers from displaced persons camps in Germany and Austria. At first, the ministry was prepared to take 4,700 of the ex-soldiers, while the remainder, including those in poor health or disabled, were to be transferred to the British Zone of Occupation of Germany. This led to protests by the Association of Ukrainians in Great Britain and a number of British charities. Eventually, as a result of the rising demand for additional labour, it was decided that almost all of the ex-members of the Galicia Division would be released from prisoner-of-war status and engaged to work under the EVW scheme. The process was carried out between August and October 1948.

In December 1948 a decision was taken to deport to Germany at the end of the month about 300 ex-members of the division. In protest against the decision, a general strike of Ukrainian EVWs took place on 28 December 1948. Two days later the Home Office announced that only 81 persons were to leave: 45 who chose to go, mainly to rejoin relatives, and 36 with records of unsatisfactory behaviour as prisoners of war. As a result, over 8,000 former soldiers of the Galicia Division were allowed to remain in the UK as EVWs. Many of them subsequently emigrated to other countries

https://www.ukrainiansintheuk.info/eng/01/former-e.htm

 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

As an Eastern European Canadian this is where I draw the line. Finland unfortunately had to be on the same "side" as Germany for most of the war but it was fighting independently with its own army. Finland later fought against Germany in the Lapland War with very little Soviet support.

When you have someone who was part of the Waffen SS and not an independent army, that's where you must consider things. Especially since this guy spoke on the eve of Yom Kippur, lol.

I’d be slow to condemn anybody facing the Soviet threat but why does having your own army make you less complicit? Finland chose to fight alongside Germany in Operation Barbarossa and only changed sides when it was clear the Germans were heading for defeat. 

[Dougie93]

Man who fought for Nazis honoured during Zelenskyy's visit to Parliament

Yaroslav Hunka was invited by Speaker Anthony Rota, who introduced him as a war hero who fought for the First Ukrainian Division

The Canadian Press : Published Sep 24, 2023

The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies issued a statement Sunday saying the division “was responsible for the mass murder of innocent civilians with a level of brutality and malice that is unimaginable.”

“An apology is owed to every Holocaust survivor and veteran of the Second World War who fought the Nazis, and an explanation must be provided as to how this individual entered the hallowed halls of Canadian Parliament and received recognition from the Speaker of the House and a standing ovation,” the statement said.

B’nai Brith Canada CEO Michael Mostyn said it is beyond outrageous that Parliament honoured a former member of a Nazi unit, saying Ukrainian “ultra-nationalist ideologues” who volunteered for the Galicia Division “dreamed of an ethnically homogenous Ukrainian state and endorsed the idea of ethnic cleansing.”

“We understand an apology is forthcoming. We expect a meaningful apology. Parliament owes an apology to all Canadians for this outrage, and a detailed explanation as to how this could possibly have taken place at the centre of Canadian democracy,” Mostyn said.

Monuments to honour the First Ukrainian Division have caused controversy in recent years. In 2021, a statue of Ukrainian military leader Roman Shukhevych and a monument to the fighters of the Waffen-SS Galicia Division in Edmonton were vandalized by someone who spray painted them with the words “Actual Nazi.” 

The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center said at the time that it had been advocating for their removal for decades.n 2020, a monument to the Waffen-SS Galicia Division in Oakville, Ont., was vandalized in a similar way.

The decision to admit Ukrainian immigrants who had served in the SS Waffen Division in the post-war period was contentious, with Jewish groups arguing they should be barred from the country. The International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg declared the SS to be a criminal organization, including the SS Waffen in that declaration.

The Waffen-SS Galicia Division surrendered to the British army in 1945, and just over 8,000 men were moved to the United Kingdom in 1947.

In 1950, the federal cabinet decided to allow Ukrainians living in the U.K. to come to Canada “notwithstanding their service in the German army provided they are otherwise admissible. These Ukrainians should be subject to special security screening, but should not be rejected on the grounds of their service in the German army.”

In 1985, then-prime minister Brian Mulroney called for a royal commission to examine whether Canada had become a haven for war criminals.The Deschenes Commission found there were about 600 former members of the Waffen-SS Galicia Division living in Canada at the time. But Justice Jules Deschenes said membership in the division did not itself constitute a war crime.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/nazi-parliament-standing-ovation

[SpankyMcFarland]

The Soviet conquest of Eastern Europe involved countless war crimes but of course Nuremberg had nothing to say about them. 

[Canadian_Cavalier]

19 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I’d be slow to condemn anybody facing the Soviet threat but why does having your own army make you less complicit? Finland chose to fight alongside Germany in Operation Barbarossa and only changed sides when it was clear the Germans were heading for defeat. 

It's not about fighting on the same side, it's about ideology. The Germans believed everyone who weren't them were inferior. Finns were just fighting for an independent Finland and did not want to genocide anyone. Finland only "chose" to fight the Soviets in the Continuation War, mainly because they had land stolen from them prior. It was either they choose to do that, or the Germans potentially take over Finland themselves and do it anyway.

The USA and USSR fought on the same side in WWII. That didn't make America Communist, nor did it make the Soviets capitalist.

[Aristides]

8 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

It's not about fighting on the same side, it's about ideology. The Germans believed everyone who weren't them were inferior. Finns were just fighting for an independent Finland and did not want to genocide anyone. Finland only "chose" to fight the Soviets in the Continuation War, mainly because they had land stolen from them prior. It was either they choose to do that, or the Germans potentially take over Finland themselves and do it anyway.

The USA and USSR fought on the same side in WWII. That didn't make America Communist, nor did it make the Soviets capitalist.

Finns joined to get land back from Russia they lost during the Winter War. Many Ukrainians joined to get a nation independent from the designers of the Holodomor which starved to death almost 4 million Ukrainians during the 30's. Some committed war crimes and others did not.

Still, not a good look inviting this guy.

[SpankyMcFarland]

30 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

It's not about fighting on the same side, it's about ideology. The Germans believed everyone who weren't them were inferior. Finns were just fighting for an independent Finland and did not want to genocide anyone. Finland only "chose" to fight the Soviets in the Continuation War, mainly because they had land stolen from them prior. It was either they choose to do that, or the Germans potentially take over Finland themselves and do it anyway.

The USA and USSR fought on the same side in WWII. That didn't make America Communist, nor did it make the Soviets capitalist.

I guess what I’m saying is that drawing a line and saying those on one side were good and those on the other were evil when they were assisting the same country sounds highly arbitrary. 

And if we’re going to give the Finns a pass then I presume we will not dream of ever criticizing a country that was merely neutral in that conflict? 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Aristides]

Plenty of nastiness on both sides. Of the 91,000 Germans taken prisoner at Stalingrad, less than 6000 ever saw Germany again and it took them 10 years to get home. 

The Soviets executed 22,000 Polish officers and intelligentsia in the Katyn Forrest Massacre in 1940.

[SpankyMcFarland]

27 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

It's not about fighting on the same side, it's about ideology. The Germans believed everyone who weren't them were inferior. Finns were just fighting for an independent Finland and did not want to genocide anyone. Finland only "chose" to fight the Soviets in the Continuation War, mainly because they had land stolen from them prior. It was either they choose to do that, or the Germans potentially take over Finland themselves and do it anyway.

The USA and USSR fought on the same side in WWII. That didn't make America Communist, nor did it make the Soviets capitalist.

It is partly about ideology. The notion that other peoples were inferior was certainly not restricted to the Nazis at that time in Europe. Many Finns took a dim view of Slavs, for instance. 

By fighting with the Soviets the US has to bear some responsibility for the catastrophe that was Eastern Europe after the war but it was a price that had to be paid to defeat Nazism. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Aristides]

If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.

Winston Churchill