Another example of why their is no dialogue in Canada with the left.

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

Thats my line i think your reading more into that what is needed... parents are pushing back on what is currently being taught...and not getting any where with school boards, hence the protests... and this is a whole lot more than tolerance, where is the classes on indigenous or black tolerance, not to mention the other groups that don't have a voice... Like i have said each province has it's own issues with these protests as our education system is not standardized so what an issue is for Ontario is not one for NB... so we can't paint all the protestors with one brush nor can we lump their concerns into one... 

I don't question the sincerity of the protesters, I just don't agree with them.

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1. ... i'm almost sure that the counter protesters never called anyone any names, how could they it is not in their nature.. 

2. I don't think that the parents requests are to much to ask for, here in NB it was about keeping parents informed of their Childs life... 

3. some how the media, and you and other blew right past that point and got stuck on the name calling...

4.I consider you to be the voice of reasoning here, although i have been told my reasoning has slipped into the right side of things in last few months.... 

1. Of course they did.

2. That part is fine, but they are also saying that SOGI should be removed from schools.

3. Calling teachers pedophiles is pretty vile.  They're not even making up the curriculum.  

4. Well when you appeal to my better nature you will get results.  I am quite aggravated by the name calling and have been dragged into the mud.  I feel bad about it.

[Army Guy]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

I don't question the sincerity of the protesters, I just don't agree with them.

That seems to be a common thread here, but the majority have been wrong about things lots of things in the past... i think a little comprise on both sides and this would be a non issue... 

[Army Guy]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Of course they did.

2. That part is fine, but they are also saying that SOGI should be removed from schools.

3. Calling teachers pedophiles is pretty vile.  They're not even making up the curriculum.  

4. Well when you appeal to my better nature you will get results.  I am quite aggravated by the name calling and have been dragged into the mud.  I feel bad about it.

i agree the name calling results in nothing being accomplished, but the counter protests were not there to accomplish anything but to shout down the parents...hence thats when things got heated...

Here in NB the protests here did not mention anything about the SOGI, not that the media has covered anyways, it all dates back to Higgs bringing in a parent must be informed about when their child goes by a different pronoun or name...thats basically it... Each province is going to have different issues as the education system is not standardized. 

It is vile, but teachers do have latitude with their lessons, and it is pretty much left to them to determine what they think should be taught as lesson plans are not standardized from teacher to teacher school to school nor provided in word for word format..... 

I;m trying, and failing it seems to appeal to both sides here, they say in the Army rub some dirt on it, and carry on soldier...but that never works.... but i think both sides have been dragged off into the woods some place and licking wounds...

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not a whole list.  Just that.

The Chuds call Trudeau a pedophile, they call teachers groomers, they call gay folks the rainbow people...

But call them deplorables, Chuds or something nowhere near as bad as pedophile and it's..

HOW DARE YOU SIR !

I thought being called deplorable was a badge of honor? Well, a button at least.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1. i agree the name calling results in nothing being accomplished, but the counter protests were not there to accomplish anything but to shout down the parents...hence thats when things got heated...

2. Here in NB the protests here did not mention anything about the SOGI, not that the media has covered anyways, it all dates back to Higgs bringing in a parent must be informed about when their child goes by a different pronoun or name...thats basically it... Each province is going to have different issues as the education system is not standardized. 

3. It is vile, but teachers do have latitude with their lessons, and it is pretty much left to them to determine what they think should be taught as lesson plans are not standardized from teacher to teacher school to school nor provided in word for word format..... 

4. I;m trying, and failing it seems to appeal to both sides here, they say in the Army rub some dirt on it, and carry on soldier...but that never works.... but i think both sides have been dragged off into the woods some place and licking wounds...

1. Yes.  That was intended to show the marchers and the public that there's plenty of support for the education system as it is.

2. 3. Ok.

4. My appeal to both sides approach is to ask for dialogue, not at a march, but in online and IRL forums.  And the dialogue has to be fact based.  The so-called left needs to absolutely appreciate that the common goal is social cohesion, ie. getting along and nothing more.  The social phenomenon of transgenderism is utterly new to the average person and many aren't equipped to empathize, and find it shocking.

That's an obvious fact.  So the best thing to hope for is live and let live.

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

I thought being called deplorable was a badge of honor? Well, a button at least.

Yes but they made those as a kind of hillbilly version of black pride... really because Hillary's words offended them and made them feel all melted inside...

[I am Groot]

18 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Protests are confrontational by their nature. 

 

Only from the perspective of the Left.

Generally, when the Left protests the Right ignores them. When the Right protests the Left gets bug-eyed furious and comes out to scream insults and obscenities at them.

It's the same thing for meetings or talks with public figures. If someone like Peterson comes to town to give a talk the Left has to come out and demonstrate, and hopefully harass anyone attending, if not shut the talk down. If some left wing public figure comes out to give a talk the Right ignores it.

I think this is a difference in the respect for freedom of speech the Right holds and Left now disdains.

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, Aristides said:

How much say should parents have? Should they be able to dictate what their kids are taught? Say they don't want them taught math or English?

They want their kids taught facts, not poorly developed ideologically constructed ideas about gender fluidity.

[I am Groot]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

I thought being called deplorable was a badge of honor? Well, a button at least.

AFAIK "deplorable" just means you're not a university graduate and haven't been properly indoctrinated in thought control and the holy precepts of intersectionality, anti-racism and DEI.

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes.  That was intended to show the marchers and the public that there's plenty of support for the education system as it is.

A good 20%, I believe, according to polls.

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

My appeal to both sides approach

Your pretense of being conservative is not designed to appeal to both sides, but as mockery. You're as 'woke' as anyone on this site.

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. A good 20%, I believe, according to polls.

2. Your pretense of being conservative is not designed to appeal to both sides, but as mockery. You're as 'woke' as anyone on this site.

1. I meant with regards to the broad application of inclusion of LGBTQ people being part of the values of the education system.
2. "Woke" means zero.  "Conservative" means something.  Too many Chuds support unlimited deficits, environmental decay, immoral behaviour, and mockery of institutions only because dear leader Trump does.  They aren't conservative.

[herbie]

Squeal about Bob's Burgers too! The daughter is 'grooming' your children to be furries with those bunny ears!

A handful of drama class teens I knew went to a Billy Graham crusade at Empire Stadium dressed in drag back around 1970 just to see the reaction. They let them in, sure the people around gave them nervous looks but that was it. Over 50 years ago and none of this street marches, accusations of pedophilia, hateful outbursts.

Of course, back then being a selfish jerk wasn't something to be proud of like now.,

Edited September 22, 2023 by herbie

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I meant with regards to the broad application of inclusion of LGBTQ people being part of the values of the education system.

I doubt many of the people at those protests have a problem with inclusion, depending on how overboard it gets. Sure, explain that some people, a small percentage, are gay or trans. Explain what that means, that it's fine, etc. I doubt many people have any real problem with that depending on how it's taught and what age group it's taught to. But that ridiculous, overboard video of a school welcoming small kids to gay pride day or whatever it was, with teachers and the whole building decked out in rainbows like it's the most wonderful celebration since Christmas is going to irritate a lot of people, including MANY from 'protected' identity groups.

Like it or not if 'inclusion' is not taught properly, especially in the given environment, it can be seen as encouragement and romanticizing something to impressionable young kids. Especially the ones who don't even know what sex is yet. And adding a secretive context to it by refusing to inform parents just makes that even worse.

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. "Woke" means zero.

Denialism? I bet virtually everyone here knows perfectly well what 'woke' means. It means social justice warriors. It means ANTIFA. It means segregating and giving preference to minority identity groups. It means denouncing, canceling and silencing anyone who disagrees with any of this, even in a minor context. Even by telling a joke or saying a word not even meant to be offensive. Denying that word has any meaning is disingenuous. 

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"Conservative" means something.  Too many Chuds support unlimited deficits, environmental decay, immoral behaviour, and mockery of institutions only because dear leader Trump does.  They aren't conservative.

So apparently the term 'woke' encompasses too many variables to mean anything to you but 'conservative' has a very narrow definition and anyone who diverges from it doesn't count. Okay, but haven't you disagreed about that with others, namely me, for discounting people who call themselves conservatives as not actually being conservative? Including the entire Republican Party? Something about true scotsmen?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Squeal about Bob's Burgers too! The daughter is 'grooming' your children to be furries with those bunny ears!

A handful of drama class teens I knew went to a Billy Graham crusade at Empire Stadium dressed in drag back around 1970 just to see the reaction. They let them in, sure the people around gave them nervous looks but that was it. Over 50 years ago and none of this street marches, accusations of pedophilia, hateful outbursts.

Of course, back then being a selfish jerk wasn't something to be proud of like now.,

So.... apparently this is what a mind looks like after it's been exposed to drag queens and bobs burgers.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[I am Groot]

I think this article speaks to the fears parents have about children being persuaded to think of themselves as other than their correct gender.

Also, another comment found on another forum:

I was a tomboy all through elementary school, to the extent that I passed as a boy and even occasionally wished I was a boy. Thank God it was the 90s and trans ideology wasn't a thing. I was always a girl. Now I'm a woman. Temporarily preferring to chill with the boys, or engage in male-centric activities, particularly at an age where concepts of self are so malleable and easily influenced, should never be perceived as having made me less of a girl.

I fear putting labels on kids runs the risk of locking them into a particular path of self-expression. Oh I'm also reminded of my cousin who actively sought to pass as a boy and young man for many years. She was just terribly unhappy, a little traumatized, and in need of mental health support. She got it, and now she's just a plain old lesbian.

I'm so relieved no one got their hooks into her during that vulnerable time, there was no pressure or encouragement to use hormones or more radical alterations to her body, all of which would have been a permanent response to a temporary state.

https://tnc.news/2023/09/22/levy-the-queer-activists-dont-speak-for-me/

[Legato]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Squeal about Bob's Burgers too! The daughter is 'grooming' your children to be furries with those bunny ears!

A handful of drama class teens I knew went to a Billy Graham crusade at Empire Stadium dressed in drag back around 1970 just to see the reaction. They let them in, sure the people around gave them nervous looks but that was it. Over 50 years ago and none of this street marches, accusations of pedophilia, hateful outbursts.

Of course, back then being a selfish jerk wasn't something to be proud of like now.,

Things have changed for the worse since then, how can you not see that. Time to restore the common sense the selfish jerk's on the left are intent destroying.

[Army Guy]

Anti-parental rights rhetoric undermines public education

 

Quote

One reason this debate is so heated is because of what is happening in other provinces. For example, New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs and Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe are taking considerable  heat  for requiring schools to obtain parental consent before using different pronouns for students under the age of 16.

Perhaps someone on the left side of this issue can explain how this simple requests equals a life and death issue, why the LGBTQ community is screaming into the wind, when it comes down to parent rights, and their children...

Quote

As a case in point, Winnipeg Free Press columnist Dan Lett recently  denounced  parental rights as “hate masquerading as a motherhood issue.” Meanwhile, organizers with the group People for Public Education published an op-ed calling the parental rights pledge a  Trojan Horse  that must be stopped.

We talked briefly about all the name calling yesterday, the media is full of it, people have taken sides and dug themselves in, There is nothing to discuss... this is a life and death issue the LGBTQ community continues to express loudly....

Some one was mentioning that the LGBTQ community had 10 to one people protesting... and yet this poll from Manitoba say different numbers...I ask again why are people not supporting parental rights, Is this issue just to complicated for you, or you truly believe parents have no rights when it comes down to their children ? And if this issue is just to big for you to wrap your minds around then i guess thats the end of all discussions on anyone rights.

Quote

Interestingly, these attacks ignore the fact that protecting parental rights has overwhelming public support. For example, an Angus Reid  survey  last month revealed that 76 per cent of Manitobans think that parents should at least be informed if their children assume a new gender identity at school. Survey results in other provinces showed similar levels of support.

I guess that the parents have more support than the left is suggesting....

Quote

 

A common line used by critics is that it’s more important to protect the rights of children than to protect the rights of parents. After all, they argue, children are not the property of their parents. The Toronto Star even went as far as publishing an  op-ed  titled “It’s a privilege, not a right, to know your kid’s gender identity.”

However, this claim essentially turns children into wards of the state. The moment that schools are allowed to hide information from parents in the name of children’s rights is the moment when the state has assumed the role of parent. There is no faster way to undermine trust in public education than to assume that parents cannot be trusted with information about their own children.

 

This whole issue is crazy to think people think they know what is better for your child than the parents do... and it is just on this one issue, for all the rest they are dumping on the parents, like  little Johnny got into a fight, caught smoking, skipped school, told the teacher to f off, basically every other issue that kids do in school they phone the parents...

but this issue is "it's a privilege to know, not a right"... becasue some parents are arseholes, OK but if they are what happens to the child when they find out they have been skipping school , and all the rest... nobody cares... but change your pronouns and name it becomes a life and death situation...Since when did we loss our common sense, when did we become afraid to draw left and right arcs for the LGBTQ and school boards when it comes to our kids...

This whole issue is a Perfect example of why there is no dialogue with the left...nether side can sit down and talk without shouting the other down...

Maybe parents should just take their children out of school, and if the numbers are as large as they say they are, then and only then will action speak louder than words...and all sides will then sit down and talk...maybe even compromise... and do it without anyone dying, or heads popping off. 

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Squeal about Bob's Burgers too! The daughter is 'grooming' your children to be furries with those bunny ears!

A handful of drama class teens I knew went to a Billy Graham crusade at Empire Stadium dressed in drag back around 1970 just to see the reaction. They let them in, sure the people around gave them nervous looks but that was it. Over 50 years ago and none of this street marches, accusations of pedophilia, hateful outbursts.

Of course, back then being a selfish jerk wasn't something to be proud of like now.,

Yep...and on the other side they said it was a life and death issue, people are going to die....so somewhere between dying and bunny ears there is a compromise...

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yep...and on the other side they said it was a life and death issue, people are going to die....so somewhere between dying and bunny ears there is a compromise...

 

Ah yes. The Hasenpfeffer compromise.   

[Army Guy]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes.  That was intended to show the marchers and the public that there's plenty of support for the education system as it is.

2. 3. Ok.

4. My appeal to both sides approach is to ask for dialogue, not at a march, but in online and IRL forums.  And the dialogue has to be fact based.  The so-called left needs to absolutely appreciate that the common goal is social cohesion, ie. getting along and nothing more.  The social phenomenon of transgenderism is utterly new to the average person and many aren't equipped to empathize, and find it shocking.

That's an obvious fact.  So the best thing to hope for is live and let live.

Yes but they made those as a kind of hillbilly version of black pride... really because Hillary's words offended them and made them feel all melted inside...

Could have done that with a protest of their own, on another day... instead they chose to be confrontational...Humans when confronted normally don't react that well...and they do stupid sh*t...

I think was brought up by other posters, Why should we cares about trans people,  it encompasses less than 2 % of the population...want to be trans fill your boots, want to be called or identify as star lord, fill your boots, I don't need to be dragged into your fantasy or life.... don't think the average Canadian really cares what this group or the rest of the LGBTQ community does on a day to day basis...with that said i don't wish them ill will, just leave me out of it...

The precedent has already been set, we don't do deep dives into our own indigenous history, black history, or for that matter our own history. so what has changed why is it OK to leave these much bigger groups behind and focus on LGBTQ matters..

A while ago there was a a small movement to return those Afghanistan civilians that help our military forces in combat in Afghanistan, this group were trying to get these people over to Canada, to this day there is still a boat load of them waiting under threat of death if they get caught... during the same time frame those that identified as LGBTQ were flown out right away, and they did not serve with our military at all...funney where our priorities are...

[herbie]

Oh FFS love how you all convert issues into left and right. It's right or wrong issue and you insist that because your politically right you're therefore correct.

If my school could teach in the 1960s that it's wrong to pick on the thalidomide kids or the black kid, they're absolutely correct to teach kids not to pick on the queer ones these days. That isn't wokeness, it's common f*cking sense.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

Oh FFS love how you all convert issues into left and right. It's right or wrong issue and you insist that because your politically right you're therefore correct.

 

It was the teachers who turned it into a political issue i'm afraid - you'll have to ask them.  Once it's about politics and not about coming to a compromise then it's going to be a 'left right' issue.

i agree with you tho - seems like teachers can politicize anything and everything these days.  it's terrible.

[I am Groot]

Another poll, this one from Angus-Reid, showing that trans policies that have been adopted due to the ferocious activism of trans types is out of step with what the public wants.

As duelling protests took place in Canadian cities over the issue of gender ideology in schools, a new survey from the Angus Reid Institute revealed that most Canadians support a middle ground: They favour equality and accommodation for trans people, but generally don’t believe men can self-identify as women.

Of respondents, just 35 per cent agreed with the sentiment — now enshrined via a latticework of federal and provincial laws — that “anyone who wishes can identify as a woman.” About the same number (34 per cent) sided with the notion that women are only those “who were born with female genitalia.”

Another 18 per cent were comfortable with the idea of men legally becoming women, but only if they changed their genitalia through surgery.

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/angus-reid-poll-transgender-policies-canada

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Another poll, this one from Angus-Reid, showing that trans policies that have been adopted due to the ferocious activism of trans types is out of step with what the public wants.

As duelling protests took place in Canadian cities over the issue of gender ideology in schools, a new survey from the Angus Reid Institute revealed that most Canadians support a middle ground: They favour equality and accommodation for trans people, but generally don’t believe men can self-identify as women.

Of respondents, just 35 per cent agreed with the sentiment — now enshrined via a latticework of federal and provincial laws — that “anyone who wishes can identify as a woman.” About the same number (34 per cent) sided with the notion that women are only those “who were born with female genitalia.”

Another 18 per cent were comfortable with the idea of men legally becoming women, but only if they changed their genitalia through surgery.

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/angus-reid-poll-transgender-policies-canada

And it's not about hating transgender people either like the cbc and the lefties would have you believe:

Julia Malott: I'm transgender and I felt welcomed at parents' rights protest

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/julia-malott-im-transgender-and-i-felt-welcomed-at-parents-rights-protest

[QuebecOverCanada]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:35 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Many wokes are antisemitic, and are also paid to be woke.  You would never be able to back that up.

2. They're unorganized.

1. Saying that antisemitism is belonging to the far right only and denying a single ounce of antisemitism exists on the extreme left is preposterous.

2. Using the term guerrilla refers mainly to warfare. Which war are you on about?

[Nexii]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It was the teachers who turned it into a political issue i'm afraid - you'll have to ask them.  Once it's about politics and not about coming to a compromise then it's going to be a 'left right' issue.

i agree with you tho - seems like teachers can politicize anything and everything these days.  it's terrible.

Is it the teachers though or the school boards? I don't think teachers get much say over the curriculum