CPC Policy Convention 2023

[I am Groot]

20 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

A more important poll would gage the opinion of the people who will be personally impacted and will have to live with the results.

Parents, you mean?

18 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Common sense tells us that if we cannot afford a house, don't buy it.

 And if you can't afford rent?

[I am Groot]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

Everything we're hearing about building housing is that new buildings will be years in the making.The only potential fast solution to provide housing within a year or two is to increase density within existing single residence neighborhoods.

That is not a fast solution. A fast solution would be to slash foreign workers and foreign students in half. That would give cause a million people to leave Canada and open up the cheap housing where they were living.

Don't know if it's true but haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.

 

[eyeball]

53 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

That is not a fast solution. A fast solution would be to slash foreign workers and foreign students in half. That would give cause a million people to leave Canada and open up the cheap housing where they were living.

That would also cause schools to close, teachers to lose their jobs and leave employers without employees.

This would make things worse, fast.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

That is not a fast solution. A fast solution would be to slash foreign workers and foreign students in half. That would give cause a million people to leave Canada and open up the cheap housing where they were living.

Don't know if it's true but haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.

 

Not sure where that came from. Seems like misinformation to me.

I did hear and read about a GST removal for renters,

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yeah funny how conflict of interest goes.

Poilievre is said to be a landlord so does he have the integrity to crash his own investments ?

First off - he's a landowner in alberta (or more accurately his wife is) and they rent it to a CPC mp.  So even if housing prices change it won't affect him much because that's one of the only parts of canada that hasn't seen psychotic pricing increases like ontario or bc and his rental income is going to stay the same.

Second off - nobody's talking about a crash. That's not good for anyone. And it's really not practically possible. There's just too few homes and too many people.

But we can possibly have a small reduction or even just if prices level out so people aren't chasing it and losing ground, and let inflation nibble at it and make savings and purchase a little easier so more people can get into it.  So i doubt he'll suffer either way.   It's 'not much of a conflict.

It will keep him in power and his prime minister's pension is worth more than his wife's home  

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That would also cause schools to close, teachers to lose their jobs and leave employers without employees.

This would make things worse, fast.

I think what you meant to say is it would cause colleges and universities to slash some of their hordes of non-teaching administrative positions and would lead to higher wages for lower-skilled workers. Right?

[I am Groot]

On 9/10/2023 at 12:44 AM, Nexii said:

As for surgery, it's kind of a pointless debate because surgeons already won't do surgeries on you unless you are 18. So that's just political points scoring on something that already doesn't happen. The exception is mastectomy which can be done at 16, and I strongly disagree with WPATH on this one being special somehow. 

Canadian surgeons performing mastectomies on trans teens as young as 14

https://nationalpost.com/news/breast-removal-surgery-trans-teens

[eyeball]

46 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I think what you meant to say is it would cause colleges and universities to slash some of their hordes of non-teaching administrative positions and would lead to higher wages for lower-skilled workers. Right?

I said it would result in job losses alright. Is it safe to assume these people would fill the void left when you've gotten rid of the TFW's?

Can you provide any sense of how long it would take to accomplish this? Within days of Poilievre's election? That'll still be two years down the road.

[Queenmandy85]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Parents, you mean?

No, the students.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

No, the students.

as I said to nexii we are talking about the political process and no politician is going to pitch to the kids bc they don't vote.  If there is a wedge issue the politicians will make a huge deal about it even if it amounts to nothing.

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

That would also cause schools to close, teachers to lose their jobs and leave employers without employees.

This would make things worse, fast.

You mean universities, who rely on foreign students as a source of income..... as schools are funded by the provinces, we already have way to many students with fancy university degrees that can not find work in their fields...maybe it is time to trim the fat. 

And one of the problems that provinces are having is lack of teachers, these teachers could in fact fill in these shortfalls within the provinces funded schools,

As for lack of employees, maybe those that are not working that can should have benefits turned off, and they could pick up by the lack of foreign students.

The lack of employees is actually working for the workers as it forces employers in competition for workers meaning higher wages and benefits 

'THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE': Ford says able-bodied need work, not welfare | Toronto Sun

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

You mean universities, who rely on foreign students as a source of income..... as schools are funded by the provinces, we already have way to many students with fancy university degrees that can not find work in their fields...maybe it is time to trim the fat. 

And one of the problems that provinces are having is lack of teachers, these teachers could in fact fill in these shortfalls within the provinces funded schools,

As for lack of employees, maybe those that are not working that can should have benefits turned off, and they could pick up by the lack of foreign students.

The lack of employees is actually working for the workers as it forces employers in competition for workers meaning higher wages and benefits 

'THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE': Ford says able-bodied need work, not welfare | Toronto Sun

It would also pressure businesses to invest in productivity.  IF you can't hire 10 workers it makes sense to spend the money so that you can get the same work done with 5. In the long run that's really what canada needs to have happen

 

[Nexii]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

as I said to nexii we are talking about the political process and no politician is going to pitch to the kids bc they don't vote.  If there is a wedge issue the politicians will make a huge deal about it even if it amounts to nothing.

Fair point, I mean that's what the courts are for.

7 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Canadian surgeons performing mastectomies on trans teens as young as 14

https://nationalpost.com/news/breast-removal-surgery-trans-teens

Ya I've said in other threads/posts that I don't agree with any surgeries before 18

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, Nexii said:

 

Ya I've said in other threads/posts that I don't agree with any surgeries before 18

The argument for most of these drugs is the same. It's chemical castration and is largely unrecoverable in the majority of cases.

So, how are you making the argument hat one is bad by the other is more acceptable? It would be the same argument for both

[Nexii]

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The argument for most of these drugs is the same. It's chemical castration and is largely unrecoverable in the majority of cases.

So, how are you making the argument hat one is bad by the other is more acceptable? It would be the same argument for both

The hormones don't work the same way. They override your body's hormones but don't magically make you generate estrogen for life instead of testosterone or vice versa. For example if I stopped the T-blockers for even a week I'd grow facial hair etc. Most sexual function comes back. 100% recoverable, definitely not. But they aren't comparable to surgery which is not reversible.  

The issue especially in Europe was that they were rushing teens through without due diligence. It cannot be treated like a social issue where you just buy hormones over the counter. 

I do think there needs to be a set of better standards in Canada, because it's very wishy-washy right now. By going through the system I can say it's far too subjective whether they let you start or not, the questions asked are very antiquated. Very little of it was based around level of dysphoria or sexual discomfort. They don't even really cut to the essence of how strong you feel about transitioning. Much of the questions are silly things like whether you would do female jobs/roles, have female interests/hobbies, or be more motherly. Which is really dated, no one's going to transition so they can be an airline stewardess or nurse. And even worse questions like whether your sexual orientation would change. It's almost like it's taboo to even say the main motivation is that you'd just rather have a female body to match your mind. They've gone way too far down the gender side of the duality of biology vs gender, in other words. I think the right-wing does have some points about biology mattering too, but many take that way too far and say that's all that matters. 

So no, I don't agree with just giving up and banning it. The vast majority still benefit, and de-transition rates seem to be very low (~1%) when everything is done right. And of those, almost none have strong regret. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Nexii

[I am Groot]

7 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

No, the students.

The parents will be personally impacted and have to live with it. And unlike the students they have fully developed brains. You think maybe people with the fully developed brains ought to be the ones making the decisions on irreversible medical procedures?

[I am Groot]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

I said it would result in job losses alright. Is it safe to assume these people would fill the void left when you've gotten rid of the TFW's?

Can you provide any sense of how long it would take to accomplish this? Within days of Poilievre's election? That'll still be two years down the road.

Are you saying only the Conservatives could do this? I'm pretty sure the Liberals could do it tomorrow. 

I know people who are in jobs or who are still working in areas which had jobs that paid several dollars over minimum wage years ago. Now they just pay minimum, because they can. Because even at minimum they get tons of applicants. This is what all those foreign workers and foreign student workers have wrought. I don't what happens to overpaid educrats busily accomplishing nothing at universities while pouring out rules, regulations and decrees that treat everyone like toddlers.

[Nexii]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Are you saying only the Conservatives could do this? I'm pretty sure the Liberals could do it tomorrow. 

I know people who are in jobs or who are still working in areas which had jobs that paid several dollars over minimum wage years ago. Now they just pay minimum, because they can. Because even at minimum they get tons of applicants. This is what all those foreign workers and foreign student workers have wrought. I don't what happens to overpaid educrats busily accomplishing nothing at universities while pouring out rules, regulations and decrees that treat everyone like toddlers.

Both CPC and Liberals are responsible for the TFW program growing wildly out of control

It's like low interest rates for too long, getting out of it now is going to be painful

Though I agree, they need to taper it down. Maybe not all at once but gradually down to zero

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Are you saying only the Conservatives could do this? I'm pretty sure the Liberals could do it tomorrow. 

I'm not and neither could the Conservatives, for the same reasons.

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I know people who are in jobs or who are still working in areas which had jobs that paid several dollars over minimum wage years ago. Now they just pay minimum, because they can. Because even at minimum they get tons of applicants. This is what all those foreign workers and foreign student workers have wrought.

I don't know anyone like that. We have foreigners where I work and we all got a nice raise this year. Then they kicked in a gas allowance for my commute.

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I don't what happens to overpaid educrats busily accomplishing nothing at universities while pouring out rules, regulations and decrees that treat everyone like toddlers.

I don't know anyone like that either.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Nexii said:

The hormones don't work the same way. They override your body's hormones but don't magically make you generate estrogen for life instead of testosterone or vice versa. For example if I stopped the T-blockers for even a week I'd grow facial hair etc. Most sexual function comes back. 100% recoverable, definitely not. But they aren't comparable to surgery which is not reversible.  

The issue especially in Europe was that they were rushing teens through without due diligence. It cannot be treated like a social issue where you just buy hormones over the counter. 

I do think there needs to be a set of better standards in Canada, because it's very wishy-washy right now. By going through the system I can say it's far too subjective whether they let you start or not, the questions asked are very antiquated. Very little of it was based around level of dysphoria or sexual discomfort. They don't even really cut to the essence of how strong you feel about transitioning. Much of the questions are silly things like whether you would do female jobs/roles, have female interests/hobbies, or be more motherly. Which is really dated, no one's going to transition so they can be an airline stewardess or nurse. And even worse questions like whether your sexual orientation would change. It's almost like it's taboo to even say the main motivation is that you'd just rather have a female body to match your mind. They've gone way too far down the gender side of the duality of biology vs gender, in other words. I think the right-wing does have some points about biology mattering too, but many take that way too far and say that's all that matters. 

So no, I don't agree with just giving up and banning it. The vast majority still benefit, and de-transition rates seem to be very low (~1%) when everything is done right. And of those, almost none have strong regret. 

I appreciate the position but i just can't condone anything that life altering - even if its "partially" reversable - being done to children. They can wait till they're old enough to at least have SOME sort of mature decision making abilities.

I mean - most parents know better than to let their children pick their own bedtime - never mind their gender.

Any thing that is 100 percent reversible - fine as long as the parents were fully aware and consent (for children)  And adults - no problem.  I'd never deny you the right to make your choices. 

But children? Life altering proceedures that aren't necessary?  That'd be a no times no to the power of oh-hell-no. To me there's no difference -  you can't just mutilate kids "a little", you must not do so at all.  We're not going to see eye to eye on this - and for me it's a matter of protecting children and that' IS a societal imperative.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

The vast majority of ideas adopted at the convention should be very agreeable. Hiring people because of their race (DEI) is bad. Finding a realistic solution to lower our emissions without destroying our economy is good. Free speech is good.

The vast majority of people I see upset about the ones related to transgender issues were never going to vote conservative in the first place.

[CdnFox]

On 9/16/2023 at 4:18 PM, Canadian_Cavalier said:

The vast majority of ideas adopted at the convention should be very agreeable. Hiring people because of their race (DEI) is bad. Finding a realistic solution to lower our emissions without destroying our economy is good. Free speech is good.

The vast majority of people I see upset about the ones related to transgender issues were never going to vote conservative in the first place.

Well and the left is trying to position it as 'anti trans' - but  in reality most people won't see it that way ' Don't mutilate children" and 'parents have a right to know what's happening with their kids' is not radical, and polling suggests most people are fine with those ideas.