Canadian Defence News

[User]

2 minutes ago, Venandi said:

With respect (more than you seem willing to extend to those who disagree with you), I don't think you realize how brutal and fundamentalist Hamas truly is. You seem to think that addressing the historical wrongs here are enough. 

It isn't.

I'll ask again (and for the last time), how would you approach negotiations with an entity that is fundamentally opposed to your very existence?

You quoted the wrong guy

[Venandi]

8 minutes ago, User said:

You quoted the wrong guy

I know... I was trying to fix it and you were too quick for me, sorry.

Anyway, I think the problem is that people just don't realize how brutlal and nonnegotiable Hamas is and they make excuses for them because of it.

I just don't see how you negotiate with an entity that stands in opposition to your very existence.

I'll make it gone and hope, in the interests of peace, that Hamas suffers the same fate.

 

Edited December 5, 2025 by Venandi

[eyeball]

28 minutes ago, User said:

Once again, you are not interested in peace, only hating Israel and seeing them destroyed. 

And as always you're not interested in peace, only hating Palestinians and seeing them disappear...like they were never there to start with.

[User]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And as always you're not interested in peace, only hating Palestinians and seeing them disappear...like they were never there to start with.

Just the ones who want to destroy Israel and continue to try… 

[Venandi]

25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And as always you're not interested in peace, only hating Palestinians and seeing them disappear.

I'd say that somewhere between that and the complete destruction of Israel is the land of the non-crazies.

Being as it was you who called me crazy for suggesting that Hamas can't be negotiated with because they seek a religious solution rather than a political one, I'd like to hear your solution for peace with Hamas, assuming they're left as a functioning entity. This isn't about "hating" Palestinians, it's about Hamas... it's also about Palestinians hating Hamas for the brutality inflicted on them. 

So, I want to know how you propose to negotiate with an organization that fundamentally opposes Israel's right to exist.

Sounds like that murderous (and recently paroled) ex-husband again eh? I'll even settle for how you plan to negotiate with him. 

SEND OVER...

 

 

Edited December 6, 2025 by Venandi

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Being as it was you who called me crazy for suggesting that Hamas can't be negotiated with because they seek a religious solution rather than a political one, I'd like to hear your solution for peace with Hamas,

I don't see anymore chance of a  solution with Hamas than I do Netanyahu's crew.

I suggested your objective was crazy because you said this: I've used the murderous ex-husband of your current fiancé as an example of the difficulty here; his history of childhood abuse may be something to sympathize with but it doesn't help your current dilemma, he gets out of jail next week.

It's as loony as paying attention to the religious objectives of the hard-core combatants in Israeli and Palestinian camps.

I've said many times around here the only solution, bar none, is people who can think straight...like more secular lefties.

Way way more secular lefties than right wing crazies and religious nuts.

[Army Guy]

Looks like Canadian experts are starting to question the amount of Canadian jobs that will be part of the Gripen deal....10000 is very high, they predict just over 6000....and yet F-35 already has 5000 Canadian jobs here and now...

Critics question Saab's offer to bring 10,000 aerospace jobs to Canada

I found this gem as well....How many Grippen E have been made todate...

 

Quote

 

As of late 2025, approximately 16 Gripen E fighters have been produced and are flying in Sweden and Brazil. The total number of all variants of Gripen aircraft built is around 300. 

The Gripen E is the latest variant of the Saab JAS 39 Gripen multirole fighter jet. 

Key points regarding the Gripen E production and orders:

• Total Deliveries to Date: Around 16 Gripen E aircraft are currently operational across the Swedish and Brazilian air forces as of late 2023 data. Sweden's first serial production Gripen E was officially accepted into service in October 2025.
• Swedish Orders: The Swedish Air Force has a total order for 60 Gripen Es.
• Brazilian Orders: Brazil is the only export customer currently operating the E variant (and the F-variant, which is the two-seat version). They have a contract for 36 aircraft in total (28 single-seat E and eight two-seat F variants). A domestic production line in Brazil is assembling 15 of these aircraft.
• Future Orders: Other nations like Thailand and Colombia have placed orders for additional E/F variants, with deliveries scheduled for the coming years. Ukraine has also expressed interest in purchasing a large number of the jets, which would require Saab to significantly expand production capacity. 

 

• This aircraft has not even been put into full scale production yet....It is just starting its journey to work out all the bugs....Why would a country agree to have production set up in Canada and then give Canada it's only only remaining foreign contract, when it has already set up a production facility in Sweden...  it does not make business sense.

 

Quote

 

The first production Gripen E flew in December 2019, though test aircraft flew earlier, with the first delivery to the Swedish Air Force happening much later in October 2025, marking its official entry into service. Production started with a first flight of a test prototype in June 2017, with Saab revealing the design in 2016, but the real rollout of the actual first production-standard jet was in late 2019. 

Key Dates:

• May 2016: First production-standard Gripen E was rolled out.
• June 15, 2017: First prototype Gripen E takes flight.
• December 3, 2019: First production Gripen E (serial 6002) makes its maiden flight.
• October 2025: The first series-produced Gripen E is delivered and accepted into service by the Swedish Air Force. 

 

•  

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

 I suggested your objective was crazy because you said this: I've used the murderous ex-husband of your current fiancé as an example of the difficulty here; his history of childhood abuse may be something to sympathize with but it doesn't help your current dilemma, he gets out of jail next week.

There's the disconnect... negotiating with that murderous ex is exactly the problem Israel is faced with. You fail to see the analogy as valid because you fail to see the brutality and religious ideology of Hamas. Israel is desperately seeking a partner for peace and I'd submit that Hamas, by their own admission, doesn't qualify.

It's Hamas with the hard-core religious objectives (not Israel) and that (from a simple soldiers perspective) wasn't always the case in Palestine... there were religious differences (of course) but the issue was ethnic and historical claims over the land. The conversations I've had with old Palestinian men were always about the farms they grew up on, not their religion or that of the people who took the farm away from them. It was about the farm...

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I've said many times around here the only solution, bar none, is people who can think straight...like more secular lefties.

What you don't seem to appreciate is that Hamas is the sort of entity that will happily throw your secular lefties off the highest remaining structure in Gaza to see if they can fly. All that aside though, so far you've only designated the political identity of your negotiating team, I want to hear how you intend to overcome Hamas's resolve to exterminate all jews and build on the ashes of what once was Israel. You might not realize it from reading media reports, but the ex husband with murderous intent is exactly the personality type your lefty negotiators will be dealing with. Believe me when I say that I'm rooting for them but I remain curious about the methodology.

 

Edited December 6, 2025 by Venandi

[Venandi]

58 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Looks like Canadian experts are starting to question the amount of Canadian jobs that will be part of the Gripen deal....

I salute your valiant attempt to drag the thread back on topic and yield the field.. I predict eyeball will have none of it though. Best of luck.

Edited December 6, 2025 by Venandi

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Venandi said:

You fail to see the analogy as valid because you fail to see the brutality and religious objectives of Hamas 

Speaking about a failure to see...Again I say, for the third time in a row now, there can be no peace with religious nuts.

Will I need to say that again?

Apparently...

24 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Hamas is the sort of entity that will happily throw your secular lefties off the highest remaining structure in Gaza to see if they can fly.

Yes, I know...Hamas is full of nuts.

28 minutes ago, Venandi said:

I want to hear how you intend to overcome Hamas's resolve to exterminate all jews and build on the ashes of what once was Israel.

Get some of the old men you talked with involved, invite inter-married Jews and Palestinians to the discussion...sports organizations that try to bring Palestinian and Israeli kids together...

32 minutes ago, Venandi said:

You might not realize it from reading media reports, but the ex husband with murderous intent is exactly the personality type your lefty negotiators will be dealing with. 

Sure, but you're only assuming the existence of one murderously religious regime that can't be reasoned with. There's two of them and to go back to your analogy about past abuse, both have been so seriously abused they need a lot of outside  intervention and help.

You obviously missed many previous posts in which I've said the only path to peace I see will be after an international peace keeping force separates Israelis and Palestinians for at least a couple of generations. There are no where near enough secular lefties on hand never mind more rational societies willing to put their hopes in them.

You just don't grasp the concept of why this is a Forever War do you?

It's already long since the longest running conflict on the planet.

[Venandi]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Will I need to say that again?

No, you simply need to acknowledge who those nuts actually are.

 

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yes, I know...Hamas is full of nuts.

POOF... there ya go.

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Get some of the old men you talked with involved

They are part of the 59% of Palestinians that oppose Hamas... their opposition is painfully (I'll say torturously) problematic for them though. Maybe your lefty delegates will have better luck and experience less torture.

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure, but you're only assuming the existence of one murderously religious regime that can't be reasoned with. There's two of them

No... no there isn't, and that's another disconnect that only comes with reading media stuff and not smelling the air, walking the land, and talking with those old Palestinian guys.

 

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You obviously missed many previous posts in which I've said the only path to peace I see will be after an international peace keeping force separates Israelis and Palestinians for at least a couple of generations.

Good luck, I've participated in two of those efforts and done a bunch of training in Israel... things are worse under Hamas than they were when I turned 19 in the Sinai. If you have an appetite for that peace keeping mission you're hungrier than me... and most other nations to boot.

 

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You just don't grasp the concept of why this is a Forever War do you?

Lots of that going around... 

Edited December 6, 2025 by Venandi

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, Venandi said:

No, you simply need to acknowledge who those nuts actually are.

You figure these guys on the Westbank look like they're ready to negotiate peace?

24 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Good luck, I've participated in two of those efforts and done a bunch of training in Israel... things are worse under Hamas than they were when I turned 19 in the Sinai. If you have an appetite for that peace keeping mission you're hungrier than me... and most other nations to boot.

Hey I didn't say it would be easy, just necessary.

[Venandi]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You figure these guys on the Westbank look like they're ready to negotiate peace?

You'll find few Israelis that support jewish militants and even fewer who participle in street dances to honour their violent (I say terrorist) activities.

Nor will you see any of the people you routinely ridicule (right here) defending their actions or trying to justify them by dredging up historical wrongs that only your time machine can rectify.

Until you articulate a method of negotiating with a murderous adversary dedicated to your extinction I have little more to add. When negotiations are impossible due to religious fervour you hit a wall... tell me how you would proceed beyond that? Or don't...

Palestinians can have peace anytime they want it and Hamas is barrier to achieving it. There's no negotiating with Hamas and they need to be eradicated if any lasting peace process is to proceed. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

And as always you're not interested in peace, only hating Palestinians and seeing them disappear...like they were never there to start with.

Projection and deflection all in the same sentence. A very efficient of you  

[Venandi]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

And as always you're not interested in peace, only hating Palestinians and seeing them disappear...

I'll close with the video below and suggest that most well intentioned western supporters of Hamas actually see themselves (by extension) as supporting the Palestinian people.

I think they lack a clear understanding of the entity they're defending though, equating Palestinian political objectives with "anything Hamas" will prove disappointing IMO. 

This guy lived it and his take on Hamas deserves some consideration:

 

Edited December 6, 2025 by Venandi

[I am Groot]

On 12/4/2025 at 12:45 AM, eyeball said:

You're saying the Deir Yassin Massacre never happened?

I'm saying Jews and Muslims were killing each other for centuries before the British even got there.

Mind you, the Muslims were also killing every other group they came near throughout the entirety of the history of Islam. The relentless need to murder everyone who isn't Muslim is baked into that death cult of a religion.

Edited December 6, 2025 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

You also have to get rid of the brutal religious regime in Israel.

Netenhahu's power comes from the Palestinians. When things like Oc7 happen, the electorate isn't interested in a politician who wants to hug and shake hands with the enemy and make them partners in peace. They want a guy who promises to crush the enemy and drown him in his own blood.

It's been like that for decades. The hard-edges of Israeli politics are all a response to the murderous attacks by Palestinians. I put it to you that if Canada suffered regular murderous terrorist attacks from an identifiable group we'd group some hard edges too.

Still waiting for Carney to buy something. It should not take a year to figure out which anti-aircraft or anti-armor missiles to get. There are no industrial benefits to negotiate since they obviously can't be made in Canada. Just put in an order, for Christs sake.

[Gaétan]

The NDP wants to pass a law to stop hypocrites like Justin Trudeau, who is busy partying with Katy Perry with money from who knows where, from sending weapons for genocides in Palestine and Sudan. The Conservatives and Liberals oppose it, and that’s exactly where you see the rottenness of their fruits and their true nature through their actions, even if these hypocrites claim they want to help the poor. Fortunately for them, as Poilievre says, the police leadership is corrupt.

[I am Groot]

The Liberals have finally bought something! Bombs! Thousands of bombs!

Is anyone here surprised by the 'kits' they've also purchased?

https://www.canadianaffairs.news/2025/12/06/canada-buys-american-bombs-new-deal/

Edited December 6, 2025 by I am Groot

[eyeball]

On 12/5/2025 at 7:19 PM, Venandi said:

Nor will you see any of the people you routinely ridicule (right here) defending their actions or trying to justify them by dredging up historical wrongs that only your time machine can rectify.

Sure you'll see them defending 'illegal' settlers in the Westbank all the time. Take the pretext they're securing a potential staging area for future attacks by Hamas for example. Go ask User, he'll tell you. I'm pretty sure he got a few likes too last time he did so....

The Israeli government could rectify this immediately by returning Palestinian territory stolen on the Westbank and paying reparations to for everyone they killed or imprisoned in the process.

Instead, the IDF is still in the same business of dispossession, subjugation and oppression it's been been perpetrating against Palestinians for 80 years now.

Like I said who needs a time machine?

Human rights groups, the United Nations, and news reports document numerous instances of the IDF supporting or actively participating in violence perpetrated by armed Israeli settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank. 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Sure you'll see them defending 'illegal' settlers in the Westbank all the time. Take the pretext they're securing a potential staging area for future attacks by Hamas for example. Go ask User, he'll tell you. I'm pretty sure he got a few likes too last time he did so....

The Israeli government could rectify this immediately by returning Palestinian territory stolen on the Westbank and paying reparations to for everyone they killed or imprisoned in the process.

Instead, the IDF is still in the same business of dispossession, subjugation and oppression it's been been perpetrating against Palestinians for 80 years now.

Like I said who needs a time machine?

Human rights groups, the United Nations, and news reports document numerous instances of the IDF supporting or actively participating in violence perpetrated by armed Israeli settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank. 

 

well i guess those guys should have tried peace instead of constantly choosing war. 

They were well on their way to in in 2014 till they decided to side with hamas. 

You can't be screaming "From the river to the sea" night and day, align with a group that kills over a thousand civilians, and then complain if people don't trust you and want to make sure you're not going to attack them. 

They should have disavowed hamas, and made peace with israel. They had that option. They chose conflict.  Now they live with it.  Oh well, you made your choice now you live with the consequences. 

[Venandi]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Like I said who needs a time machine?

Since Israel isn't going away, you do.

And since you have no idea how to propel negotiations ahead with a murderous adversary dedicated to the destruction of Israel I think you should work harder at getting it up and running... time travel is all ya got.

Edited December 7, 2025 by Venandi

[Gaétan]

We’ve seen how much the hotels where Katy Perry stays cost; the Governor General went there too — $1,500 for a glass of orange juice… where does Justin get the money?

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, Venandi said:

Since Israel isn't going away, you do.

And since you have no idea how to propel negotiations ahead with a murderous adversary dedicated to the destruction of Israel I think you should work harder at getting it up and running... time travel is all ya got.

I've told you several times negotiations between people who insist on being murderous towards one another is impossible.

They need to be separated and kept away from one another. By forceful intervention if needs be...for decades.

[ExFlyer]

On 12/5/2025 at 8:45 PM, eyeball said:

Speaking about a failure to see...Again I say, for the third time in a row now, there can be no peace with religious nuts.

Will I need to say that again?

Apparently...

Yes, I know...Hamas is full of nuts.

Get some of the old men you talked with involved, invite inter-married Jews and Palestinians to the discussion...sports organizations that try to bring Palestinian and Israeli kids together...

Sure, but you're only assuming the existence of one murderously religious regime that can't be reasoned with. There's two of them and to go back to your analogy about past abuse, both have been so seriously abused they need a lot of outside  intervention and help.

You obviously missed many previous posts in which I've said the only path to peace I see will be after an international peace keeping force separates Israelis and Palestinians for at least a couple of generations. There are no where near enough secular lefties on hand never mind more rational societies willing to put their hopes in them.

You just don't grasp the concept of why this is a Forever War do you?

It's already long since the longest running conflict on the planet.

OMG...Start your own thread already!!!!...  This is CANADIAN DEFENCE NEWS