US Gun Deaths Hit Record High of Nearly 49,000 in 2021

[NYLefty]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:51 PM, WestCanMan said:

Of course I can see a pattern - you're still being a 4king weasel. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

1) The US is about 18th in homicides per 100K per year. El Salvador has almost 80 per 100K. That's 20x as high as the US. 

2) In rural areas, where there are exponentially more rifles per capita than in urban areas, there are far less murders per 100K (less than 2, and that's all types of homicide, not just firearm homicides):

Why is it that in the rural areas, where there is a far higher concentration of rifles, there are also way less murders per 100K, Spanky? Shouldn't the rural areas be a huge bloodbath, considering the higher number of rifles per 100K?

If your stats aren't completely bogus then rural areas should sound like Viet Nam circa 1966 but they don't. And do you know why they don't? Of course not. 

Despite what rosey colored smoke screens sniveling tarts such as yourself try to hide behind to defend assault. These weapons are seeing tougher restrictions in more and more states. You hogwash defense of ARs is laughed at by most as childish rhetoric by little babies who don't want their toys taken from them. You want an AR then move to a swamp like in the south 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, NYLefty said:

Despite what rosey colored smoke screens sniveling tarts such as yourself try to hide behind to defend assault. These weapons are seeing tougher restrictions in more and more states. You hogwash defense of ARs is laughed at by most as childish rhetoric by little babies who don't want their toys taken from them. You want an AR then move to a swamp like in the south 

Define "assault weapon".

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, NYLefty said:

Despite what rosey colored smoke screens sniveling tarts such as yourself try to hide behind to defend assault. These weapons are seeing tougher restrictions in more and more states.

And the death rate isn't going down.  Imagine that.

Gun control has already been a massive failure, and only liberals claim when something fails it means we need MOAR of it

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, NYLefty said:

Despite what rosey colored smoke screens sniveling tarts such as yourself try to hide behind to defend assault. These weapons are seeing tougher restrictions in more and more states. You hogwash defense of ARs is laughed at by most as childish rhetoric by little babies who don't want their toys taken from them. You want an AR then move to a swamp like in the south 

Awww, you poor little raist ?

dRunK MUch?

[NYLefty]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Define "assault weapon".

A weapon capable of accepting large capacity magazines including drum magazines that are also used by our military in semi automatic configuration capable of killing large numbers of people in short periods of time.

Example Newton Connecticut's Sandy Hook Elementary school where the shooter employed an AR-15 in a semi automatic configuration and proceeded to blow the heads off of 20 6yr olds in minutes leaving many of these poor babies  unrecognizable to their own mothers and fathers 

There how's that nitwit???

[NYLefty]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And the death rate isn't going down.  Imagine that.

Gun control has already been a massive failure, and only liberals claim when something fails it means we need MOAR of it

Gun deaths are way down in NY state since the ban of assault weapons in 2013. Your ammo sexual arguments to protect your dear toys are old, inaccurate and frankly tired

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, NYLefty said:

A weapon capable of accepting large capacity magazines including drum magazines that are also used by our military in semi automatic configuration capable of killing large numbers of people in short periods of time.

So a shotgun then.  Several meet all your criteria.  I mean, any gun capable of using a detach mag is capable of having a drum magazine - every single one.. 

Ar 15's are not used by any militaries anywhere. Never mind ar 30's etc. so... NOT an assault rifle?

Every gun is capable of killing large numbers  of people in a short time.  Depending on what you consider "large" and "short'.  I can load and shoot a double barrel shotgun at a rate of about 3 rounds every 2 seconds on average and others can too, in fact youtube has dozens showing how to do it twice as fast or more - doesn't take much practice with the right gear.  And can do so till i  run out of any ammo im' carrying - that's 30 dead people every 20 seconds.  Is that 'a lot in a few'?

So i guess a double barrel is an assault gun?  You know - the gun biden's wife uses.

Your definition is an utter fail.  Almost all guns are assault weapons by that definition.  So you're just saying ban all guns.

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, NYLefty said:

Gun deaths are way down in NY state since the ban of assault weapons in 2013. Your ammo sexual arguments to protect your dear toys are old, inaccurate and frankly tired

Gun deaths are utterly meaningless - unless you're saying it's fine to kill people as long as you don't use a gun.  If bad guys switch from guns to something else - then you've achieved nothing and it was utterly a failure.

So - lets take a REAL look at it.

Seeing as you brought up new york - lets look at the city and the state.

So how's the city doing

Aww crap  = the murders are up over where they were  before!!!! Gun control didn't solve ANYTHING!!!  ANd 2021 and 2022 are EVEN WORSE!!!!!

And - the homicide rate was going down BEFORE THE GUN BAN - and the GUN BAN DIDNT" COLLECT GUNS ALREADY OUT THERE

Which tells us that whatever factors  were involved - gun laws made no difference.

How's the state doing?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/05/us/new-york-city-crime-wave-2022/index.html

Ooooopsie - cime including homicides are up radically! - Gun crime too!!  And it's been climbing for a couple years now!  Pretty much the same as the city.

Failure there i'd say.

 

So no - nothing got better after the gun ban. Sorry - murders are up.

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, NYLefty said:

Gun deaths are way down in NY state since the ban of assault weapons in 2013. Your ammo sexual arguments to protect your dear toys are old, inaccurate and frankly tired

Oh - and another point .

If gun laws make the state safer as you claim and reduce homicides......   then explain why the homicide rate in many states with high gun ownership is lower than states with lower ownership?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/murder-rate-by-state

Why does vermont, which allows OPEN carry (you can wear a pistol like in the old west legally) as well as concealed carry and has a huge gun ownership percentage , have a LOWER homicide rate than new york which has much much tighter regs?

Why does Utah of all places have a lower rate than California?  SO does wyoming for that matter! tonnes of guns there.  Cali has an assault weapon ban - it should be lower!

 

Your entire argument is completely bogus and doesn't stand up to even 1 second of scrutiny.  You're trying to pound a square peg into a round hole based on your ideology and not logic, reason or facts.

Follow the science man.

 

 

[Rebound]

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Oh - and another point .

If gun laws make the state safer as you claim and reduce homicides......   then explain why the homicide rate in many states with high gun ownership is lower than states with lower ownership?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/murder-rate-by-state

Why does vermont, which allows OPEN carry (you can wear a pistol like in the old west legally) as well as concealed carry and has a huge gun ownership percentage , have a LOWER homicide rate than new york which has much much tighter regs?

Why does Utah of all places have a lower rate than California?  SO does wyoming for that matter! tonnes of guns there.  Cali has an assault weapon ban - it should be lower!

 

Your entire argument is completely bogus and doesn't stand up to even 1 second of scrutiny.  You're trying to pound a square peg into a round hole based on your ideology and not logic, reason or facts.

Follow the science man.

 

 

Are you lying or stupld?

You cannot compare crime rates of a highly rural population to densely populated cities. But you can measure increases and decreases in crime in those areas. Gun deaths are up in the rural places you mention, aren’t they? 

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Are you lying or stupld?

 

talking to your mirror again?  I"d go with both.  As we'll see.

Quote

You cannot compare crime rates of a highly rural population to densely populated cities.

That's sort of true -   Rural is almost always higher. Even within the same state.  So the less dense population should have a much HIGHER crime rate, all else being equal. 

So you're kind of lying there when you suggest somehow this invalidates the point.  If anything it highlights it

Check it out - you'll find i'm right  Its even true in Canada.

And :

Gun deaths are up in the rural places you mention, aren’t they? 

You mean homicide rates i'm sure -  we've already talked about how dishonest and scummy it is to think about 'gun deaths', as if people's deaths don't matter if it's not a gun,

To answer your question - no. Lets look at vermont for example

https://www.wcax.com/2021/12/31/vermont-sees-slight-decline-homicides-2021/

So homicides are DOWN!!!!!  Even as new york (boht city and rural) goes UP!!!!  How is that possible?!  Vermont has MOAR GUNS!!!!!

And there's no change to the gun laws - so why would it go down?  I thought only changes to gun laws make it go down?

 

Once again you're an !diot.  And that's going to keep happening as long as you try to argue based on ideology and not facts.  Follow the science man,  Gun laws make no real difference. Well - not those ones anyway.

 

[Nationalist]

6 hours ago, NYLefty said:

A weapon capable of accepting large capacity magazines including drum magazines that are also used by our military in semi automatic configuration capable of killing large numbers of people in short periods of time.

Example Newton Connecticut's Sandy Hook Elementary school where the shooter employed an AR-15 in a semi automatic configuration and proceeded to blow the heads off of 20 6yr olds in minutes leaving many of these poor babies  unrecognizable to their own mothers and fathers 

There how's that nitwit???

The AR-15 is a semi-automatic. It requires a bump stock or other changes to be considered automatic. Thus it is not restricted federally. Much like a revolver or many other rifles. 

What happened at Sandy Hook was horrible all around. If the USA has such insanity running amongst the general population, maybe the USA should re-evaluate their society? Re-write the Constitution?

The USA has way too many armed people. Interesting that although horrible, Sandy Hook and other such killing sprees, are dwarfed by the inner city gun fights...with semi-automatic weapons. But...you know...acknowledging the main cause of gun violence in the USA, would sort o' work against your purposes...wouldn't it.

[impartialobserver]

This thread needs a poster that used the avatar, Spartan, on liberalforum.org. Did not always agree with his conservative politics but he could lay out gun laws and research like no other. 

[BeaverFever]

On 7/18/2023 at 4:50 PM, Nationalist said:

The AR-15 is a semi-automatic. It requires a bump stock or other changes to be considered automatic. Thus it is not restricted federally. Much like a revolver or many other rifles. 

What happened at Sandy Hook was horrible all around. If the USA has such insanity running amongst the general population, maybe the USA should re-evaluate their society? Re-write the Constitution?

The USA has way too many armed people. Interesting that although horrible, Sandy Hook and other such killing sprees, are dwarfed by the inner city gun fights...with semi-automatic weapons. But...you know...acknowledging the main cause of gun violence in the USA, would sort o' work against your purposes...wouldn't it.

Just about every inner city criminal’s gun was manufactured by a legal gun manufacturer supposedly for a legitimate purpose (homemade guns being fairly rare). Somewhere the chain of custody breaks and legally purchased guns, owned by legal gun owners, fall into the hands of criminals. The NRA and Republicans don’t want anyone thinking about that. American gun laws are absurd. In many if not most states states a private gun owner can legally sell a gun to a complete stranger with no questions asked   Republicans passed laws preventing ATF from investigating gun dealers whose guns repeatedly end up in crimes by illegal gun owners and then limiting their ability to even trace crime guns back to gun dealers   And Republicans also ensure that when rogue gun dealers do get busted, the penalties are light.

 

[Aristides]

On 7/18/2023 at 7:23 AM, NYLefty said:

A weapon capable of accepting large capacity magazines including drum magazines that are also used by our military in semi automatic configuration capable of killing large numbers of people in short periods of time.

Example Newton Connecticut's Sandy Hook Elementary school where the shooter employed an AR-15 in a semi automatic configuration and proceeded to blow the heads off of 20 6yr olds in minutes leaving many of these poor babies  unrecognizable to their own mothers and fathers 

There how's that nitwit???

He really doesn't care.

[NYLefty]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

He really doesn't care.

They try that Tom Foolery getting technical about specific firearms crap all the time in a feeble attempt to appear all knowing. Shits old

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Just about every inner city criminal’s gun was manufactured by a legal gun manufacturer supposedly for a legitimate purpose (homemade guns being fairly rare). Somewhere the chain of custody breaks and legally purchased guns, owned by legal gun owners, fall into the hands of criminals. The NRA and Republicans don’t want anyone thinking about that. American gun laws are absurd. In many if not most states states a private gun owner can legally sell a gun to a complete stranger with no questions asked   Republicans passed laws preventing ATF from investigating gun dealers whose guns repeatedly end up in crimes by illegal gun owners and then limiting their ability to even trace crime guns back to gun dealers   And Republicans also ensure that when rogue gun dealers do get busted, the penalties are light.

 

"Somewhere the chain of custody breaks"

Bah ha ha haha...

Somewhere? 

https://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/defund-the-police

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Just about every inner city criminal’s gun was manufactured by a legal gun manufacturer supposedly for a legitimate purpose

Just about every dollar spent on illegal drugs was manufactured by a legal mint supposedly for a legitimate purpose.  BeaverrFever doesn't want you thinking about that

 

It's such a stupid argument. It's like saying that it's the woman's fault she got raped because she has a vagina.

Everything results in crime - cars are used for crime, baseball bats are, kitchen knives are, Booze is, medical drugs are, etc etc etc.  The OBJECT is not the source of the crime

So what's the one common denominator? The criminal.  There is no crime without the criminal. There IS crime without guns.

So what should our focus be if we really care about crime?  The criminals.  And THAT is what the leftie loonies REALLY don't want you thinking about.

[Aristides]

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Just about every dollar spent on illegal drugs was manufactured by a legal mint supposedly for a legitimate purpose.  BeaverrFever doesn't want you thinking about that

 

It's such a stupid argument. It's like saying that it's the woman's fault she got raped because she has a vagina.

Everything results in crime - cars are used for crime, baseball bats are, kitchen knives are, Booze is, medical drugs are, etc etc etc.  The OBJECT is not the source of the crime

So what's the one common denominator? The criminal.  There is no crime without the criminal. There IS crime without guns.

So what should our focus be if we really care about crime?  The criminals.  And THAT is what the leftie loonies REALLY don't want you thinking about.

There will always be criminals, guns just increase the scale of carnage they are able to inflict.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

There will always be criminals, guns just increase the scale of carnage they are able to inflict.

No, they don't.  You think that because they're very popular in the us at the moment and grab all the good headlines. But the research shows very clearly that the 'carnage' a country sees is not relational to the presence or availability at all. 

I've posted some of the research by gary mauser - a professor who's taught and studied this stuff in the US, france and Canada.  He's been asked to speak at the UN. He's spent decades looking at this, and he's very clearly an expert who's published peer reviewed papers as well as articles on gun control.  And he notes very clearly that bad guys do as much or more carnage where there are no guns as they do where there are guns.

And again - if what you said was true then there would be a correlation between murder rates and firearm prevelance and law in the states - but states with the most guns often have the lowest crime.  But interestingly not always - which indicates that the presence of guns is NOT a significant factor.

The science does not support your position at all.

 

[impartialobserver]

Correlation is not causality.... the correlation between number of guns and number of deaths is always going to be positive. It is simple math. The causality is not quite so easy to parse out in statistics. 

[Aristides]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No, they don't.  You think that because they're very popular in the us at the moment and grab all the good headlines. But the research shows very clearly that the 'carnage' a country sees is not relational to the presence or availability at all. 

I've posted some of the research by gary mauser - a professor who's taught and studied this stuff in the US, france and Canada.  He's been asked to speak at the UN. He's spent decades looking at this, and he's very clearly an expert who's published peer reviewed papers as well as articles on gun control.  And he notes very clearly that bad guys do as much or more carnage where there are no guns as they do where there are guns.

And again - if what you said was true then there would be a correlation between murder rates and firearm prevelance and law in the states - but states with the most guns often have the lowest crime.  But interestingly not always - which indicates that the presence of guns is NOT a significant factor.

The science does not support your position at all.

 

Lanza killed 26 people at Sandy Hook and his primary weapon was an AR-15. He fired 154 rounds in less than 5 minutes. He could not have killed 26 people in less than 5 minutes with a knife or baseball bat. The gun was legally bought by his mother and the police found 1400 rounds of ammunition stored at her home. 

After work places, schools are the next most common locations for mass shootings and after handguns, semi automatic rifles are the most common weapon used in homicides and the most common in large mass shootings.

But you  don't really care.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Correlation is not causality.... the correlation between number of guns and number of deaths is always going to be positive. It is simple math. The causality is not quite so easy to parse out in statistics. 

That does not turn out to be true tho.  The number of deaths does NOT correlate to the number of guns available.

Which indicates that if people want to kill other people they will find a tool to do so.

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That does not turn out to be true tho.  The number of deaths does NOT correlate to the number of guns available.

Which indicates that if people want to kill other people they will find a tool to do so.

So lets make it easier for them to do it in volume and from a distance.

[impartialobserver]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That does not turn out to be true tho.  The number of deaths does NOT correlate to the number of guns available.

Which indicates that if people want to kill other people they will find a tool to do so.

Correlation is basically if one number goes up.. does the other. Number of guns owned/purchased is up. Why? You do not exactly throw it away like you do an empty bag of chips and go to the gas station and get a new one. Therefore the top number is always on the increase. Second, if you look at crime statistics.. the percentage of those where a gun is the method used is always the highest. Easiest, most direct, and least personal.. It takes a whole new level of rage, personal enmity, sociopathy to stab someone 12 to 15 times therefore having to be upclose than to simply pull a trigger from 6 to 15 feet away. 

 

the point is that basing one's argument on this correlation shows a short sighted view of statistics and gun deaths. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by impartialobserver