observer from afar Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 As an observer from afar I've been able to witness just how despots get into power, control large numbers of people into believing any guff they spout and blind them to the consequences of those beliefs. I've been able to do so just by watching trump, the weakest excuse for a human being in my lifetime. Wake up you Muppets, the 'man' is using you for his own corrupt ends, he doesn't give a monkey's about a single one of you, he'd struggle to spell 'decency' and he will destroy your democracy, or what is left of it since he came on the political scene. Remember Nuremburg, following the orders of a lunatic is no defence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 15 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Naah. You're only guilty of being brain dead. The lying and unwitting dissemination of lies is beyond your control. 1) As far as Caroll is concerned, Trump was absolutely right - she is a ******. No one was ever raped in an upscale dept store change-room and then forgot what year it happened. It's ridiculous that she even got to bring her weak case to trial - if she made that accusation against Bill Clinton (and she easily could if she wanted to) it never would have gotten to trial. 2) As far as Russian collusion obstruction is concerned, Trump and his associates gave the liars, scumbags & criminals at the FBI far more of their time and attention than they deserved: hundreds of thousands of pages of documents, thousands and thousands of files, hundreds of interrogations, etc, and all of that while the FBI knew that there was no collusion in early 2017. It was just a highly publicized show trial, complete with a military-style FBI raid that was coordinated with CNN to titillate rubes like you. While you were gettin' your jerk on watching the FBI raid people's homes and waste taxpayer money, Trump was busy getting rid of islamic state (winning), fighting covid while the Dems were talking about Ukrainian collusion, building up the economy, etc. He was far too busy working for the American people to play the FBI's stupid games. When you say 'obstruction', I say 'relegating the FBI to the sidelines where they belong'. You might appreciate the fact that the FBI commits crimes and harasses the Dems' political opponents, but it's just a fact that the FBI has completely lost the respect more than 50% of Americans. That's by far the biggest deal of the 2000s as far as the US is concerned. More Konspiracy kook nonsense and ISIS was in retreat before Trump even took office. Moreover you can’t even point to a single thing Trump did to defeat ISIS other than to say he happened to be POTUS when they finally fell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 The Trump indictment incinerates the right-wing defenses of him made over the past year The 47-page federal criminal indictmentagainst former President Donald Trump unsealed on Friday incinerates months of desperate attempts by his media allies to excuse his behavior in handling classified material and the resulting probe of his actions. Trump’s sycophants have claimed that Trump did not do anything wrong -- but the indictment says: Trump kept the documents in unsecured locations at Mar-a-Lago, including a ballroom and bathroom. Trump allegedly bragged that he had classified documents, acknowledging that he didn’t and could no longer declassify them while showing them to visitors. Classified documents related to U.S. nuclear programs were found at Mar-a-Lago. Trump’s actions were unique from other instances of people maintaining classified documents in that he willfully and knowingly mishandled the documents. Trump himself packed boxes. Trump admitted in an audio recording that he couldn’t declassify a document after he left office. DEFENSE: The docs were secured Right-wing media have claimed that the documents were secure at Trump’s home in Mar-a-Lago. Fox News host Mark Levin said the documents were “safer at Mar-a-Lago” than “at the National Archives.” Conspiracy theorist Jack Posobiec tweeted similar sentiments, saying, “Mar-a-Lago is protected inside and out by Secret Service federal agents at all times.” INDICTMENT: Trump kept the documents in unsecured locations at Mar-a-Lago, including a ballroom and bathroom As the indictment explains, Mar-a-Lago “was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents. Nevertheless, Trump stored his boxes containing classified documents in various locations,” including in a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, an office space, his bedroom, and a storage room.” The indictment breaks down the locations, saying they include: “The Mar-a-Lago Club’s White and Gold Ballroom, in which events and gatherings took place.” “The business center at The Mar-a-Lago Club.” “The shower where his other stuff is” in“The Mar-a-Lago Club’s Lake Room.” The “Storage Room,” the hallway for which “could be reached from multiple outside entrances, including one accessible from The Mar-a-Lago Club pool patio through a doorway that was often kept open,” and which “was near the liquor supply closet, linen room, lock shop, and various other rooms.” Trump’s “summer residence at The Bedminster Club,” which, like Mar-a-Lago, “was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents.” “Pine Hall,” which is “an entry room in Trump’s residence." Trump’s office. DEFENSE: The documents were declassified After the FBI seized documents during its search of Mar-a-Lago, Trump and his allies in right-wing media repeatedly claimedthat Trump had issued a “standing order” to declassify documents at “the moment he removed them” from the Oval Office, with some even saying he was “the classification authority” and could essentially “wave a magic wand” to declassify documents without a paper trail. Simultaneously, Trump sycophant and serial misinformer John Solomon and former Trump Department of Defense official Kash Patel — both of whom were named Trump’s representatives to the National Archives — claimed to be “on a mission” to prove Trump had declassified the documents. Right-wing media continued to push these claims in recent months. INDICTMENT: Trump allegedly bragged that he had classified documents, acknowledging that he didn’t and could no longer declassify them while showing them to visitors According to the indictment, “on two occasions in 2021, Trump showed classified documents to others,” including in one instance where Trump noted that the U.S. military “plan of attack” document he was sharing was “highly confidential” and “secret information,” adding, “See as president I could have declassified it. … Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.” DEFENSE: There were no serious classified materials After news broke that the FBI was looking for material pertaining to nuclear weapons at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago, Fox host Sean Hannity, along with others in conservative media, downplayed the reporting, repeating Trump’s statement that “nuclear weapons, that issue is a hoax.” And after it was reported that the FBI’s search proved to be fruitful, right-wing media still tried to leap to Trump’s defense. On Fox News, host Laura Ingraham claimed, “And the issue of the nuclear capabilities of other countries, the CIA, I believe, has its own website that gives a lot of this information about — right?” Geraldo Rivera compared Trump's alleged crimes to “a library book that was overdue.” INDICTMENT: Classified documents related to U.S. nuclear programs were found at Mar-a-Lago According to the indictment, included in the boxes of classified documents was information “regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries” and about “United States nuclear programs.” According to the Department of Justice: “The unauthorized disclosure of these classified documents could put at risk the national security of the United States, foreign relations, the safety of the United States military, and human sources and the continued viability of sensitive intelligence collection methods.” DEFENSE: Everyone does it Right-wing media have echoed Trump’srepeated claims that other presidents had also taken classified documents and suggested that Trump is being indictedonly as a part of a “witch hunt” against him. INDICTMENT: Trump’s actions were unique in that he willfully and knowingly mishandled the documents Trump’s claims about these specific former presidents have been debunkedand while former Vice President Mike Pence and President Joe Biden found classified documents at their properties, they immediately returned them and have not faced any charges. The indictment shows a clear disparity, alleging that Trump “did willfully retain the documents,” knew he had the documents, and knew they were classified. In the indictment, Trump is quoted as saying to a staffer that a document he showed was “secret information” and that “as president he could have declassified it” but now he can’t. Further, when subpoenaed to turn over the documents, Trump “endeavored to obstruct the FBI and grand jury investigation, and conceal his continued retention of classified documents,” the indictment alleges. DEFENSE: Trump didn’t pack the boxes Some right-wing media figures have claimed that the former president lacks culpability because he supposedly didn’t pack the boxes himself. Fox’s Sean Duffy asked, “Do you think that he went through the boxes at Mar-a-Lago? Do you think he knows what he had in those boxes? I don’t think he did." Former White House spokesperson Ari Fleischer made the same claim on Fox, saying, “If President Trump himself did not pack up those boxes — if, as reported, GSA, the General Services Administration packed up the boxes, then it’s very hard to see culpability for the president. And I have it on reliable authority that Donald Trump himself never opened those boxes in Mar-a-Lago and has no idea what’s in them.” INDICTMENT: Trump himself packed boxes According to the indictment, “In January 2021, as he was preparing to leave the White House, Trump and his White House staff, including [Trump aide Walt] Nauta, packed items, including some of Trump’s boxes.” The indictment added, “Trump was personally involved in this process.” DEFENSE: Nobody knows the proper declassification procedure anyway On his radio show, Hannity downplayed potential obstruction of justice charges against Trump, and said: “I would argue, legally, he doesn't have any obligation to cooperate with, and nor can anyone give a real definition of whether or not, you know, exactly how one president is supposed to declassify the materials anyway.” INDICTMENT: Trump admitted in an audio recording that he couldn’t declassify a document after he left office The indictment reveals that Trump had knowledge of the proper declassification procedure. In an audio recording during a meeting he had with a writer and several other people, “Trump showed and described a ‘plan of attack’ that Trump said was prepared for him by the Department of Defense.” Trump told them that the plan he was showing was “highly confidential” and “secret,” and said, “As president I could have declassified it,” but “now I can’t.” https://www.mediamatters.org/mar-lago-search/trump-indictment-incinerates-right-wing-defenses-him-made-over-past-year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: The Trump indictment incinerates the right-wing defenses of him made over the past year The 47-page federal criminal indictmentagainst former President Donald Trump unsealed on Friday incinerates months of desperate attempts by his media allies to excuse his behavior in handling classified material and the resulting probe of his actions. Trump’s sycophants have claimed that Trump did not do anything wrong -- but the indictment says: Trump kept the documents in unsecured locations at Mar-a-Lago, including a ballroom and bathroom. Trump allegedly bragged that he had classified documents, acknowledging that he didn’t and could no longer declassify them while showing them to visitors. Classified documents related to U.S. nuclear programs were found at Mar-a-Lago. Trump’s actions were unique from other instances of people maintaining classified documents in that he willfully and knowingly mishandled the documents. Trump himself packed boxes. Trump admitted in an audio recording that he couldn’t declassify a document after he left office. DEFENSE: The docs were secured Right-wing media have claimed that the documents were secure at Trump’s home in Mar-a-Lago. Fox News host Mark Levin said the documents were “safer at Mar-a-Lago” than “at the National Archives.” Conspiracy theorist Jack Posobiec tweeted similar sentiments, saying, “Mar-a-Lago is protected inside and out by Secret Service federal agents at all times.” INDICTMENT: Trump kept the documents in unsecured locations at Mar-a-Lago, including a ballroom and bathroom As the indictment explains, Mar-a-Lago “was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents. Nevertheless, Trump stored his boxes containing classified documents in various locations,” including in a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, an office space, his bedroom, and a storage room.” The indictment breaks down the locations, saying they include: “The Mar-a-Lago Club’s White and Gold Ballroom, in which events and gatherings took place.” “The business center at The Mar-a-Lago Club.” “The shower where his other stuff is” in“The Mar-a-Lago Club’s Lake Room.” The “Storage Room,” the hallway for which “could be reached from multiple outside entrances, including one accessible from The Mar-a-Lago Club pool patio through a doorway that was often kept open,” and which “was near the liquor supply closet, linen room, lock shop, and various other rooms.” Trump’s “summer residence at The Bedminster Club,” which, like Mar-a-Lago, “was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents.” “Pine Hall,” which is “an entry room in Trump’s residence." Trump’s office. DEFENSE: The documents were declassified After the FBI seized documents during its search of Mar-a-Lago, Trump and his allies in right-wing media repeatedly claimedthat Trump had issued a “standing order” to declassify documents at “the moment he removed them” from the Oval Office, with some even saying he was “the classification authority” and could essentially “wave a magic wand” to declassify documents without a paper trail. Simultaneously, Trump sycophant and serial misinformer John Solomon and former Trump Department of Defense official Kash Patel — both of whom were named Trump’s representatives to the National Archives — claimed to be “on a mission” to prove Trump had declassified the documents. Right-wing media continued to push these claims in recent months. INDICTMENT: Trump allegedly bragged that he had classified documents, acknowledging that he didn’t and could no longer declassify them while showing them to visitors According to the indictment, “on two occasions in 2021, Trump showed classified documents to others,” including in one instance where Trump noted that the U.S. military “plan of attack” document he was sharing was “highly confidential” and “secret information,” adding, “See as president I could have declassified it. … Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.” DEFENSE: There were no serious classified materials After news broke that the FBI was looking for material pertaining to nuclear weapons at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago, Fox host Sean Hannity, along with others in conservative media, downplayed the reporting, repeating Trump’s statement that “nuclear weapons, that issue is a hoax.” And after it was reported that the FBI’s search proved to be fruitful, right-wing media still tried to leap to Trump’s defense. On Fox News, host Laura Ingraham claimed, “And the issue of the nuclear capabilities of other countries, the CIA, I believe, has its own website that gives a lot of this information about — right?” Geraldo Rivera compared Trump's alleged crimes to “a library book that was overdue.” INDICTMENT: Classified documents related to U.S. nuclear programs were found at Mar-a-Lago According to the indictment, included in the boxes of classified documents was information “regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries” and about “United States nuclear programs.” According to the Department of Justice: “The unauthorized disclosure of these classified documents could put at risk the national security of the United States, foreign relations, the safety of the United States military, and human sources and the continued viability of sensitive intelligence collection methods.” DEFENSE: Everyone does it Right-wing media have echoed Trump’srepeated claims that other presidents had also taken classified documents and suggested that Trump is being indictedonly as a part of a “witch hunt” against him. INDICTMENT: Trump’s actions were unique in that he willfully and knowingly mishandled the documents Trump’s claims about these specific former presidents have been debunkedand while former Vice President Mike Pence and President Joe Biden found classified documents at their properties, they immediately returned them and have not faced any charges. The indictment shows a clear disparity, alleging that Trump “did willfully retain the documents,” knew he had the documents, and knew they were classified. In the indictment, Trump is quoted as saying to a staffer that a document he showed was “secret information” and that “as president he could have declassified it” but now he can’t. Further, when subpoenaed to turn over the documents, Trump “endeavored to obstruct the FBI and grand jury investigation, and conceal his continued retention of classified documents,” the indictment alleges. DEFENSE: Trump didn’t pack the boxes Some right-wing media figures have claimed that the former president lacks culpability because he supposedly didn’t pack the boxes himself. Fox’s Sean Duffy asked, “Do you think that he went through the boxes at Mar-a-Lago? Do you think he knows what he had in those boxes? I don’t think he did." Former White House spokesperson Ari Fleischer made the same claim on Fox, saying, “If President Trump himself did not pack up those boxes — if, as reported, GSA, the General Services Administration packed up the boxes, then it’s very hard to see culpability for the president. And I have it on reliable authority that Donald Trump himself never opened those boxes in Mar-a-Lago and has no idea what’s in them.” INDICTMENT: Trump himself packed boxes According to the indictment, “In January 2021, as he was preparing to leave the White House, Trump and his White House staff, including [Trump aide Walt] Nauta, packed items, including some of Trump’s boxes.” The indictment added, “Trump was personally involved in this process.” DEFENSE: Nobody knows the proper declassification procedure anyway On his radio show, Hannity downplayed potential obstruction of justice charges against Trump, and said: “I would argue, legally, he doesn't have any obligation to cooperate with, and nor can anyone give a real definition of whether or not, you know, exactly how one president is supposed to declassify the materials anyway.” INDICTMENT: Trump admitted in an audio recording that he couldn’t declassify a document after he left office The indictment reveals that Trump had knowledge of the proper declassification procedure. In an audio recording during a meeting he had with a writer and several other people, “Trump showed and described a ‘plan of attack’ that Trump said was prepared for him by the Department of Defense.” Trump told them that the plan he was showing was “highly confidential” and “secret,” and said, “As president I could have declassified it,” but “now I can’t.” https://www.mediamatters.org/mar-lago-search/trump-indictment-incinerates-right-wing-defenses-him-made-over-past-year Not to minimize the amount of work that obviously went into that, but an indictment is not a conviction. It simply means that on the face of it there appears to be enough evidence to justify having a trial to consider the matter and see if any of it is true. We'll see what the judge (and then the appeals judge) says about it. THEN you can gloat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, CdnFox said: Not to minimize the amount of work that obviously went into that, but an indictment is not a conviction. It simply means that on the face of it there appears to be enough evidence to justify having a trial to consider the matter and see if any of it is true. We'll see what the judge (and then the appeals judge) says about it. THEN you can gloat Lucky for Trump in the MAGA state of Florida his case “coincidentally” ended up with the same Trump-appointed judge as before, whose absurd legal arguments to protect Trump were previously overturned on appeal Edited June 11, 2023 by BeaverFever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 39 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Lucky for Trump in the MAGA state of Florida his case “coincidentally” ended up with the same Trump-appointed judge as before, whose absurd legal arguments to protect Trump were previously overturned on appeal er.... ok then. well to be honest if the charges were particularly strong they would have filed them 2 years ago. This feels more like it's about 'timing' than anything - tie him up during the primaries to prevent him from winning and maybe score a moral victory on one of the charges if they get majorly lucky and he gets a fine, but it's embarrassing as hell. Frankly i do think he should be found guilty for removing the docs and not bringing them back when he was out of office, but i also think exactly the same of Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 17 minutes ago, CdnFox said: er.... ok then. well to be honest if the charges were particularly strong they would have filed them 2 years ago. This feels more like it's about 'timing' than anything - tie him up during the primaries to prevent him from winning and maybe score a moral victory on one of the charges if they get majorly lucky and he gets a fine, but it's embarrassing as hell. Frankly i do think he should be found guilty for removing the docs and not bringing them back when he was out of office, but i also think exactly the same of Biden. Not at all. Keep in mind this case is about crimes committed by Trump during those 2 years, not on the day he left he left office. It actually unfolded quite well time-wise. First there’s the time required for National Archives to audit and to discover the documents were missing. Then there were the many months that National Archives and eventually DOJ bent over backwards quietly trying to negotiate the peaceful return of the stolen documents without resorting to prosecution or other strict measures. Then there was the time needed to audit the documents Trump initially returned and to confirm that he lied about having returned everything. Then there was the time required to further negotiate with Trump for the remainder and ultimately deliberate, prepare and execute the first-ever criminal search warrant on an ex-POTUS which you can imagine is no small task especially in the current political environment. Then there was the time required to assess and analyze the dozens of additional material Trump had hidden throughout his compound and determine next steps including to deliberate, prepare and execute the first-ever criminal indictment of an ex-POTUS which you can imagine is no small task especially in the current political environment. I don’t think realistically it could have happened much more quickly than it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted June 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Lucky for Trump in the MAGA state of Florida his case “coincidentally” ended up with the same Trump-appointed judge as before, whose absurd legal arguments to protect Trump were previously overturned on appeal What kind of banana republic BS is that, where a defendant’s “impartial” judge is the person he personally appointed to a lifetime appointment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 17 minutes ago, Rebound said: What kind of banana republic BS is that, where a defendant’s “impartial” judge is the person he personally appointed to a lifetime appointment? No doubt - that's ALMOST as shady as having a clinton run across the tarmac to force teh Justice to pressure the fbi drop the charges against his wife, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 11 hours ago, CdnFox said: No doubt - that's ALMOST as shady as having a clinton run across the tarmac to force teh Justice to pressure the fbi drop the charges against his wife, Fake news. There were never any charges laid against Hillary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Fake news. There were never any charges laid against Hillary. There were as far as the fbi were concerned. They were ready to go and all of them felt that it was a perfectly legit charge. Till the call came in. Do you need me to post what you already know to be true? Do you think it makes you look better to try to win on some really sad technicality? We can do that if you like, if you insist on looking like an !diot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 Former Attorney General Bill Barr said Sunday that presenting former President Trump as a victim of a “witch hunt” is “ridiculous” in reaction to the narrative presented by most in the GOP that the charges are politically motivated. “It’s a very detailed indictment. And it’s very, very damning,” Barr told Shannon Bream on “Fox News Sunday. “And this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous.” https://thehill.com/homenews/4044452-barr-presenting-trump-as-victim-after-indictment-is-ridiculous/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 minute ago, I am Groot said: Former Attorney General Bill Barr said Sunday that presenting former President Trump as a victim of a “witch hunt” is “ridiculous” in reaction to the narrative presented by most in the GOP that the charges are politically motivated. “It’s a very detailed indictment. And it’s very, very damning,” Barr told Shannon Bream on “Fox News Sunday. “And this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous.” https://thehill.com/homenews/4044452-barr-presenting-trump-as-victim-after-indictment-is-ridiculous/ Yeah - at least the chargers are straight up this time. Not like that new york mess which was considered a bit of a joke by many. That was very much a witch hunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, CdnFox said: There were as far as the fbi were concerned. They were ready to go and all of them felt that it was a perfectly legit charge. Till the call came in. Do you need me to post what you already know to be true? Do you think it makes you look better to try to win on some really sad technicality? We can do that if you like, if you insist on looking like an !diot. No you’re misrepresenting facts again. “The FBI” was not about to lay charges. And ex-President Clinton’s meeting with Lynch is at best just lobbying. He’s not her boas he can’t make her do anything. Undoubtedly you link somehow connecting the dots is to some right wing propagandist source? Do you not see the irony of you chiding us that ACTUALLY-indicted Trump is innocent until proven guilty, while you make unproven claims about the guilt of NEVER-indicted Hillary? Edited June 12, 2023 by BeaverFever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 Just now, BeaverFever said: No you’re misrepresenting facts again. “The FBI” was not about to lay charges. And ex-President Clinton’s meeting with Lynch is at best just lobbying. He’s not her boas he can’t make her do anything. Undoubtedly you link somehow connecting the dots is to some right wing propagandist source? https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/fbi-officials-wanted-to-charge-hillary-clinton-turns-out-they-should-have/ https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/430881-fbis-top-lawyer-believed-hillary-clinton-should-face-charges-but-was/ https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/20/politics/john-durham-investigation-update/index.html And just because it's fun: https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/06/10/tarlov-flips-out-when-co-host-points-out-dem-indictment-hypocrisy-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-hillary-clinton-1367045/ You lied kiddo. And you knew you were lying. The fbi collected the evidence - the ALL thought she should be charged and were prepared to recommend that and follow through with the charges. And turns out the office that clinton pressured called comey and magicaly he changed his mind And clinton did run across the tarmac. All true. No conspiracy. So here's a question - why do lefties feel the need to lie about easily verified facts so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/fbi-officials-wanted-to-charge-hillary-clinton-turns-out-they-should-have/ Right wing conspiracy propaganda outlet 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/430881-fbis-top-lawyer-believed-hillary-clinton-should-face-charges-but-was/ Doesn’t say what you claim it says…ONE GUY said he alone wanted to proceed with charges but was the minority view and eventually they persuaded him. 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/20/politics/john-durham-investigation-update/index.html Says nothing about the Lynch meeting or the FBIs investigation of Hilary. Also the Durham investigation was a flop that found nothing substantial. 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/06/10/tarlov-flips-out-when-co-host-points-out-dem-indictment-hypocrisy-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-hillary-clinton-1367045/ Another random right wing whacko site 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: You lied kiddo. And you knew you were lying. The fbi collected the evidence - the ALL thought she should be charged and were prepared to recommend that and follow through with the charges. And turns out the office that clinton pressured called comey and magicaly he changed his mind And clinton did run across the tarmac. All true. No conspiracy. So here's a question - why do lefties feel the need to lie about easily verified facts so much? Nope I didn’t lie you are just wrong and seeing things that aren’t there. Comey ended up helping Trump by announcing he was reopening Hillary’s investigation in the eve of the election when he has no basis to. Bill did meet Lynch but it was a nothingburger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 minute ago, BeaverFever said: Right wing conspiracy propaganda outlet Doesn’t say what you claim it says…ONE GUY said he alone wanted to proceed with charges but was the minority view and eventually they persuaded him. Says nothing about the Lynch meeting or the FBIs investigation of Hilary. Also the Durham investigation was a flop that found nothing substantial. Another random right wing whacko site Nope I didn’t lie you are just wrong and seeing things that aren’t there. Comey ended up helping Trump by announcing he was reopening Hillary’s investigation in the eve of the election when he has no basis to. Bill did meet Lynch but it was a nothingburger Anyone who has to rely on trying to clain the source is the problem without refuting the points is admitting defeat. As to the rest - pathetic. Top FBI agent says he wants to charge - your response "oh it's just some guy'. That's the guy in charge of her investigation. So - "one guy" who's job it was. The next one proves the call. The one after you can't even begin to refute. You did ie. And you're doing it again. You should be deeply ashamed. You have the potential to at least have a half way decent mind if you put in the effort, but you're wasting it and all you can muster is elementary school defenses and dodges. Be better. And stop with the lying. The fact, which has been shown, is that the fbi wanted to charge her till comey got a call from the justice department right after Clinton got out of his plane, ran across the tarmac, and got on board anotehr plane to "talk" with the justice. That is verifiable through dozens of sources. If you find yourself resorting to sealioninig - you're on the wrong side of the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) On 6/10/2023 at 10:15 PM, BeaverFever said: More Konspiracy kook nonsense and ISIS was in retreat before Trump even took office. Moreover you can’t even point to a single thing Trump did to defeat ISIS other than to say he happened to be POTUS when they finally fell Obama was under the impression that it would take years to defeat islamic state, Trump crushed them in 3 months. It was just a matter of eliminating small pockets of resistance after that. The two mains points: 1) Trump gave more authority for forces in the field to strike targets in real time instead of going through the military bureaucracy in DC. 2) He changed their policy of fighting islamic state from "pushing them back" to "surrounding them and killing them all". As a result of 1 & 2 islamic state was suddenly taking heavy losses, and that slowed recruitment down considerably. It was fun for those guys when they were strong enough to commit genocide, but no one wants to fight in a losing war. Edited June 12, 2023 by WestCanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, WestCanMan said: Obama was under the impression that it would take years to defeat islamic state, Trump crushed them in 3 months. It was just a matter of eliminating small pockets of resistance after that. The two mains points: 1) Trump gave more authority for forces in the field to strike targets in real time instead of going through the military bureaucracy in DC. 2) He changed their policy of fighting islamic state from "pushing them back" to "surrounding them and killing them all". As a result of 1 & 2, the fact that islamic state was suddenly taking heavy losses, slowed recruitment down considerably. Not true The ISIS strategy was developed and launched under Obama and was already delivering results when Trump first took office in 2017. See data below and maps of shrinking ISIS territory at the link: ”I am a scholar who tracks the Islamic State group and its affiliates. I pay careful attention to where the group is active and holds territory as part of a University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth project I lead called MappingISIS.com. Data I have collected – including from official reports issued by the State Department, the Global Anti-ISIS Coalition, the Pentagon, IHS Conflict Monitor, a think tank that provides data on wars, and other think tanks – show that the president’s claims are false: The Trump administration mostly finished the job, but the Obama administration launched the successful campaign against the Islamic State, and did roughly half the work the president is trying to claim credit for. Using these sources, I have created a map that for the first time delineates territory liberated from the Islamic State under Obama and under Trump. The map makes clear that the Obama administration liberated approximately 50% of ISIS territory before handing the successful war effort off to Trump. In 2014, the Obama administration launched a military campaign called Operation Inherent Resolve to use U.S. and allied troops and provide aid to other groups to fight the Islamic State group. Military, government and outside analysts agree that the campaign was successful on all fronts before Trump took office in January 2017. For instance, the U.S. envoy to the international anti-ISIS coalition testified in June 2016 – seven months before Trump became president – that the Islamic State “has lost 47% of its territory in Iraq, and 20% in Syria.” The 72-nation coalition stated “by November 2016 Islamic State had lost 62%of its mid-2014 ‘peak’ territory in Iraq, and 30% in Syria.” And the British think tank IHS Markit reported that by the final months of Obama’s presidency, Islamic State territory in Iraq had shrunk from 40% of the country to just 10%. The Islamic State group also lost large numbers of fighters under Obama. In December 2016, a month before Obama’s term ended, CNN reported that the Pentagon said it had killed 50,000 militants in airstrikes since 2014, leaving no more than 15,000 Islamic State fighters to defend their collapsing state. Just weeks after Obama left the White House, Gen. Raymond Thomas, head of U.S. Special Operations Command, told a symposium in Maryland, “We have killed over 60,000[ISIS members].” [Deep knowledge, daily. Sign up for The Conversation’s newsletter.] In addition to losing territory and fighters under Obama, the Islamic State lost most of its oil-producing capacity in 2015, as a result of a massive bombing campaign known as Tidal Wave II, which drastically limited the group’s ability to fund its operations. Under Obama, the Islamic State also lost its backup headquarters city, the Libyan town of Sirte. Trump’s claims of conquering “almost 100% [of the Islamic State] … since our election” are false. Objective history records that Obama launched and oversaw much of the victorious war that the current president claims for himself. https://theconversation.com/amp/who-really-defeated-the-islamic-state-obama-or-trump-148066 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 6 hours ago, BeaverFever said: ”I am a scholar who tracks the Islamic State group and its affiliates. I pay careful attention to where the group is active and holds territory as part of a University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth project I lead called MappingISIS.com. Data I have collected – including from official reports issued by the State Department, the Global Anti-ISIS Coalition, the Pentagon, IHS Conflict Monitor, a think tank that provides data on wars, and other think tanks – show that the president’s claims are false: The Trump administration mostly finished the job, but the Obama administration launched the successful campaign against the Islamic State, and did roughly half the work the president is trying to claim credit for. That's your guy's quote, and this is his map: So according to your guy basically everything in Syria was captured by "Assad and Putin", but look how many coalition (which doesn't include Russia) airstrikes there were in Syria by month. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27838034 The number of airstrikes in Syria barely topped 300 in all the months that Obama was POTUS. Trump doubled that in his first month. They peaked at nearly 1,500 by mid-2017. Almost 5x higher than any month under Obama. Your guy is just an asshat and an Obama apologist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, WestCanMan said: That's your guy's quote, and this is his map: So according to your guy basically everything in Syria was captured by "Assad and Putin", but look how many coalition (which doesn't include Russia) airstrikes there were in Syria by month. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27838034 The number of airstrikes in Syria barely topped 300 in all the months that Obama was POTUS. Trump doubled that in his first month. They peaked at nearly 1,500 by mid-2017. Almost 5x higher than any month under Obama. Your guy is just an asshat and an Obama apologist. No you just don’t know what you’re talking about and are grasping at random straws . You don’t seize territory via airstrike and quantity of airstrike does not equal quantity of territory seized or quantity of fighters killed If every single one of those airstrikes had missed its target or were duds or just pointless distractions by a president who didn’t know what else to do, your little airstrike chart would look exactly the same. So it’s pretty ridiculous to think it somehow proves anything. Edited June 13, 2023 by BeaverFever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 Trump Is a Predator Who Feeds on Lackeys Trump’s body man Walt Nauta is just the latest in a long line of lackeys. In every Trump scandal, there is a Trump lackey. Every one of them has served as a proxy for the biggest lackey of them all: the Republican Party. The newest lackey is Walt Nauta, Donald Trump’s “body man,” who was indicted last week, along with his boss, in the classified documents criminal case. But he is just the latest in a long line of lackeys who have faced ruin, thanks to their close ties to Trump. Some are low-level employees like Nauta, while others are well-paid professionals, like attorney Michael Cohen or former Trump Organization Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg, both of whom ended up in prison as a result of their loyalty. The Republican Party today is dominated by weak personalities, easily swayed by Trump’s demagoguery and eager to be told what to do by an autocrat. What they all have in common is that they have weak personalities and were easily seduced by Trump into doing his bidding, even when they knew that what he was asking them to do was immoral or illegal, or both. Trump is a predator: He hunts for people he can convince to commit crimes — and then do jail time — on his behalf. Then he moves on, leaving the wreckage of their lives behind. But each Trump lackey is a stand-in for the entire GOP, which has surrendered its soulto Donald Trump. The Republican Party today is dominated by insipid personalities easily swayed by Trump’s demagoguery and eager to be told what to do by an autocrat. …. Of course, the insurrectionist mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, in order to try to keep Trump in power was just one giant group of Trump lackeys. More than a thousand of them have already faced arrest and prosecution, while Trump has not yet faced justice for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Few Trump lackeys have woken up in time to save themselves by flipping and testifying against him. …. The 40-year-old Nauta is the classic Trump lackey: someone who allowed his entire identity to get wrapped up in his proximity to Donald Trump. While in the Navy, Nauta served in the White House cafeteria and later as a military valet for Trump. He caught Trump’s eye and left the Navy to work as his body man after he left office. Nauta became a constant presence by Trump’s side; the indictment in the classified documents case summed up Nauta’s role in Trump’s post-presidential world in one sentence: “Nauta reported to Trump, worked closely with Trump, and traveled with Trump.” … Nauta only got into legal trouble in the classified documents case when he lied to the FBI about moving boxes filled with documents at Trump’s request, when Trump was trying to hide the documents from the government. Trump was playing a stupid game of hide and seek, moving the documents from one room to another in Mar-a-Lago, and Nauta was the stooge who followed Trump’s orders and kept moving the boxes for him. Between May 23 and June 2, 2022, Nauta moved 64 boxes from the Mar-a-Lago storage room and took them to Trump’s residence in Mar-a-Lago so that Trump could go through them and find the documents he wanted to keep and hide, according to the indictment. By that time, Trump had already been subpoenaed by a federal grand jury demanding that he return all of the classified documents that he still held. Instead of complying with the subpoena, Trump ordered Nauta to start moving the boxes from the storage room up to the residence. Nauta began moving the boxes up to the residence on the same day that Trump met with his lawyers to discuss the subpoena. The FBI gave Nauta an opportunity to answer easy questions to avoid legal jeopardy, but he didn’t take it. The FBI asked Nauta if he was “aware of any boxes being brought to [Trump’s] home — his suite” at Mar-a-Lago. Nauta said no. He was then asked whether you have any information that could — that would — that could help us understand, like, where they were kept, how were they kept, were they secured, were they locked?” “I wish, I wish I could tell you,” Nauta lied. “I don’t know. I honestly just don’t know.” With his lies to the FBI, Nauta’s status as a Trump lackey was complete. https://theintercept.com/2023/06/13/trump-indictment-aide-walt-nauta/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 21 hours ago, BeaverFever said: No you just don’t know what you’re talking about and are grasping at random straws. That, then... Quote If every single one of those airstrikes had missed its target or were duds or just pointless distractions by a president who didn’t know what else to do, your little airstrike chart would look exactly the same. ? What a 4kin' dumbass. Talk about rasping at straws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) Incase anyone is interested... Understand...that this is the sort of unadulterated bullshit the Libbies support. There is no "too low" for these slimy destructive fools. I don't think the damage these honourless Tweenkies have done can ever be fixed. In the meantime... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/monday-volga-dnepr-cargo-plane-forfeiture-ukraine-1.6873277 Unbelievable... Edited June 13, 2023 by Nationalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.