Women have won the war of the sexes and now face a bleak future

[I am Groot]

Kotkin talks about the decreasing economic performance of men, esp blue-collar men, the increasing numbers of women graduating from universities and going on to high positions in bureaucracy of government and the corporate world are seeing economic success but not so much in terms of mates or children. Men are dropping out and pushing away from women, not knowing how to deal with them socially without risk of cancellation or arrest. They're turning to internet porn instead.

Women in choosing mates choose those of equal or greater status on the economic/social ladder. If those men aren't available or aren't interested in more than casual tinder hookups then women have to go without. Rates of depression and suicide have skyrocketed among women, esp younger women, in no small part due to social media. But also because Tinder and the like have been a disaster for women in terms of finding the kind of men they want (attractive, successful) willing to commit when such men can swipe on their phone and have another eager woman available fairly easily.

It's also been a disaster for men, of course. Statistics have shown only a small percentage of male users of these sites (good looking and with good jobs/money) get most of the attention from women. The rest are mostly out of luck.

It all makes for a future that looks increasingly bleak.

 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/women-have-won-the-war-between-the-sexes-but-at-what-cost

[Michael Hardner]

It's bleak for sure, but not much to be done in any one area to turn things around.

[impartialobserver]

The pendulum has swung back the other way but for 90% (or so) of human history.. men have had the overwhelming majority of the power. I met my wife through an online dating site.  would never have met her otherwise. We lived about 35 miles apart and our social circles would never have met. 

[herbie]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Women in choosing mates choose those of equal or greater status on the economic/social ladder

If you believe that's how 'women' choose, you don't have much vision or experience.

[I am Groot]

29 minutes ago, herbie said:

If you believe that's how 'women' choose, you don't have much vision or experience.

Pardon me for going with what the social scientists say, pretty much unanimously, as far as I'm aware.

Not that there aren't exceptions, of course.

[herbie]

One guy's opinion does not make "social scientists say".

He says 'women' marry for social/economic improvement. Not even 'most women' and definitely not 'some women'.

I almost married one who earned 8 times what I did. The last one worked in a camp and made even more and walked away to work as a gorcery clerk to be with me all the time. My first wife was in the same union and same night school as me, both my sisters married classmates or co-workers. Almost every woman I know married for love and similar lifestyle above social or economic reasons. My (not so bright or ambitious) stepson married then dumped some Korean girl who's father owned a store there, later to find out he owned a chain of department stores all over Korea. She'd married downward.

The whole article is based on a misogynist assumption that women marry men for 19th century reasons, 'survival', rather than their own free will.

[Michael Hardner]

My impression is that people marry for different reasons today, other than income, however it's counterintuitive because life also seems to be harder to pay for.

[TreeBeard]

6 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Rates of depression and suicide have skyrocketed among women, esp younger women

What are the rates of suicide by year?

Edited May 22, 2023 by TreeBeard

[TreeBeard]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's bleak for sure, but not much to be done in any one area to turn things around.

You believe the nonsense that women are worse off now due to a more egalitarian society?  LOL

Edited May 23, 2023 by TreeBeard

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You believe the nonsense that women are worse off now due to a more egalitarian society?  LOL

No.

[I am Groot]

52 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You believe the nonsense that women are worse off now due to a more egalitarian society?  LOL

That wasn't the point of the article, Mr. Strawman.

Though I could make an argument that at least half if not more ARE worse off without much effort. It depends on the criteria you use.

Edited May 23, 2023 by I am Groot

[TreeBeard]

34 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

That wasn't the point of the article, Mr. Strawman.

Though I could make an argument that at least half if not more ARE worse off without much effort. It depends on the criteria you use.

You digging up those suicide stats you claimed?

[Perspektiv]

On 5/22/2023 at 6:08 PM, herbie said:

The whole article is based on a misogynist assumption that women marry men for 19th century reasons, 'survival', rather than their own free will.

Even today, many women are attracted to men who can protect and provide for them.

A lot of what the average woman will find sexy, coveys power or translates to it.

Just because a woman is making money, doesn't mean many won't still want to feel like a queen or princess with her man.

 

[Perspektiv]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:37 PM, TreeBeard said:

You believe the nonsense that women are worse off now due to a more egalitarian society?  LOL

Better off in many ways, but far more find themselves single and lonely.

Dating is becoming incredibly difficult. The stats don't lie. 

Progress is often good, but you can't deny the unintended consequences that come with it at times.

 

[Mako]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:57 PM, I am Groot said:

Kotkin talks about the decreasing economic performance of men, esp blue-collar men, the increasing numbers of women graduating from universities and going on to high positions in bureaucracy of government and the corporate world are seeing economic success but not so much in terms of mates or children. Men are dropping out and pushing away from women, not knowing how to deal with them socially without risk of cancellation or arrest. They're turning to internet porn instead.

Women in choosing mates choose those of equal or greater status on the economic/social ladder. If those men aren't available or aren't interested in more than casual tinder hookups then women have to go without. Rates of depression and suicide have skyrocketed among women, esp younger women, in no small part due to social media. But also because Tinder and the like have been a disaster for women in terms of finding the kind of men they want (attractive, successful) willing to commit when such men can swipe on their phone and have another eager woman available fairly easily.

It's also been a disaster for men, of course. Statistics have shown only a small percentage of male users of these sites (good looking and with good jobs/money) get most of the attention from women. The rest are mostly out of luck.

It all makes for a future that looks increasingly bleak.

 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/women-have-won-the-war-between-the-sexes-but-at-what-cost

Do even successful men benefit?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jurors-harvey-weinstein-rape-sexual-assault-trial-reach-verdict-rcna59273

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201305/inside-the-mind-oj-simpson

Certainly society as a whole doesn’t benefit.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-01-10/u-s-birth-rates-continue-to-fall

[Aristides]

Women equal to men. Oh, THE HORROR!

[Aristides]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:46 PM, Perspektiv said:

Even today, many women are attracted to men who can protect and provide for them.

A lot of what the average woman will find sexy, coveys power or translates to it.

Just because a woman is making money, doesn't mean many won't still want to feel like a queen or princess with her man.

 

Or men who want a woman who will put them on a pedestal.

[Perspektiv]

13 hours ago, Aristides said:

Or men who want a woman who will put them on a pedestal.

All men who I have met who wanted this, had feminine traits and still had penises, but behaved like women.

[Mako]

Not good:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/505745/depression-rates-reach-new-highs.aspx

[Nationalist]

Equality of the sexes. Good concept. Bad results.

Are men and women "equal"? No actually. They are "opposites" and that's as it should be.

It is well documented than women gravitate to stronger men. This is a natural instinct.

The effeminization of the western male has resulted in lower sperm counts, reduced birth rate, and a whole bunch of annoyingly effeminate men.

IMO we need to leave nature be and celebrate the 2 sexes for what they are. What we've done is a disaster for the human race.

[Aristides]

Why should equality between the sexes be a war? Women should know their place godammit.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Aristides

[Perspektiv]

15 hours ago, Nationalist said:

It is well documented than women gravitate to stronger men. This is a natural instinct.

The current movement is turning men into b*****s. People think effeminate men are a good thing, as it eliminates toxic masculinity. Yet tons of toxic women who are allowed to be this way, with impunity. Nothing wrong with being effeminate an male. Something dangerous in suppressing strong men, who are highly masculine under guise of pointing to their toxicity.

Until the roof of your house starts to leak, or your car's alternator starts working horribly, and you realize you need what would most likely be a highly masculine male, to fix it.

Now many are too afraid of breaking a nail, causing mass shortages in some of these fields.

Same thing goes for relationships. Women are forced to become the men they desire, making dating them much harder considering an effeminate male won't be bringing sufficient things to the table to satisfy such high standards.

I've dated quite a few independent women who were used to being mommy to men (openly ranting about what had happened to men), but couldn't handle my independent nature.

I.E They are almost in shock, when I pay for the meals, have my own house and car and am good and don't need them. I choose to be with them. This is no longer the norm, and they only have their own movement to blame for it.

[Perspektiv]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

Why should equality between the sexes be a war?

We're not equal.

I'm stronger than my wife. Its not even close.

I work in a male dominated field, and it is insanely competitive. Salaries are much higher.

My wife works in a female dominated field, which is more nurturing. Salaries are high (potentially), but would come with heavy handed hours. Most end up opting for cushier options in this field, that pay less -- she was  no different. She wanted to be a mom, and needed that work life balance.

I didn't, for the longest time. I was happy working insane hours, on some "the early bird gets the worm" mentality. This is highly common for men and women. Which is why in highly competitive and scrappy fields where work life balance isn't existent, men *shockingly* tend to do a lot better. I've worked with scrappy women who didn't need a work life balance, but this isn't the norm if she is of a certain age range, when you look at statistics.

We bring different things to the table. I don't understanding how celebrating those differences is a bad thing.

Me decorating my house, is having a table, couch, and nice TV and stand and everything being centered and clean.

My wife thinks of things I don't even consider. Plants, pictures of us, and brings warmth to the space I just was blind to.

I can fix anything, and bring my own stamp to things. Why not celebrate this?

Tons of things she can do, I know I can't. Vice versa.

It will never be equal, until you make both roles fully equal.

Someone tries to break into our house, and I hear a window getting smashed. Who do you think is going to check that out? My wife?

Road trip. We get a flat tire. Who do you think is likeliest to lift the car, and swap the tire?

I still see women who expect to be let ahead, at say, a door or be considered an a*****e. Why is that? Don't you want equality?

I dated a lot before meeting my wife. Who do you think was expected to pay? Heck, who do you think my wife expected to pay for our first date?

Shouldn't women pay if they plan the date? From my experience, women paying for men, tends to dry up a vagina real quick.

 

[Aristides]

On 11/23/2023 at 1:13 AM, Perspektiv said:

We're not equal.

I'm stronger than my wife. Its not even close.

I work in a male dominated field, and it is insanely competitive. Salaries are much higher.

My wife works in a female dominated field, which is more nurturing. Salaries are high (potentially), but would come with heavy handed hours. Most end up opting for cushier options in this field, that pay less -- she was  no different. She wanted to be a mom, and needed that work life balance.

I didn't, for the longest time. I was happy working insane hours, on some "the early bird gets the worm" mentality. This is highly common for men and women. Which is why in highly competitive and scrappy fields where work life balance isn't existent, men *shockingly* tend to do a lot better. I've worked with scrappy women who didn't need a work life balance, but this isn't the norm if she is of a certain age range, when you look at statistics.

We bring different things to the table. I don't understanding how celebrating those differences is a bad thing.

Me decorating my house, is having a table, couch, and nice TV and stand and everything being centered and clean.

My wife thinks of things I don't even consider. Plants, pictures of us, and brings warmth to the space I just was blind to.

I can fix anything, and bring my own stamp to things. Why not celebrate this?

Tons of things she can do, I know I can't. Vice versa.

It will never be equal, until you make both roles fully equal.

Someone tries to break into our house, and I hear a window getting smashed. Who do you think is going to check that out? My wife?

Road trip. We get a flat tire. Who do you think is likeliest to lift the car, and swap the tire?

I still see women who expect to be let ahead, at say, a door or be considered an a*****e. Why is that? Don't you want equality?

I dated a lot before meeting my wife. Who do you think was expected to pay? Heck, who do you think my wife expected to pay for our first date?

Shouldn't women pay if they plan the date? From my experience, women paying for men, tends to dry up a vagina real quick.

 

So you are physically stronger. So what? 

Just because you see a woman as an equal doesn't mean you can't behave like a gentleman.

If you are expected to pay, that would make them superior would it not?

Equality is about equal opportunity.

My former occupation was almost entirely male but more and more women have joined the profession in the past few decades and they do a fine job. Because there were more obstacle put in their way, they had to work harder.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Aristides

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

If you are expected to pay, that would make them superior would it not?

A vagina is far more valuable than a penis on the dating stock market. 

You invest in penis, and you're essentially investing in perishable goods. Women can get dick without breaking a sweat. Find me the fastest, ugliest woman you could get, and we all know a dude that would hit it.

Thats the candy bar rack right before the cashier. Dime a dozen.

I actually have to work, to get a woman to want to sleep with me. I'm not getting a woman like my wife, being broke. She could be unemployed, and still net a high ranking man. She's beautiful yes, but let's keep it real. You're not after her beauty.

Vagina is highly valuable. 

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

they do a fine job.

Not saying woman can't do a fine job at anything they set their minds to. Am saying there clearly are differences between the two.

It's not equal.

I hear a window breaking, my wife isn't going to check to make sure it's okay. I am making that trip.

Our tire blows out on a road trip. I got it.

Its not equal.

I treat her equally, but we divorce she gets half my shit.

Sorry, its not the same.