Will prominent Socialist Olivia Chow win Toronto Mayoralty Race?

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

How would Olivia Chow win in a city that elected Rob Ford?  Toronto is mostly immigrants, and most immigrants aren't exactly socialists, they come from countries with pretty conservative beliefs, except for the communist governments they flee for their lives from.

well first off many of those immigrants are not eligible to vote. You have to become a citizen first, and studies show that's happening less and less with immigrants choosing to just stay landed immigrant and their kids are citizens

Second - historically even of those who are citizens they tend to have a lower than average turn out to vote.

Third - many of the 'immigrants' are or were refugees. They tend to vote the way that their sponsors and the people who help them integrate tend to vote and they tend to vote left of center.

Fourth - there were 102 candidates. so really it's more about organization and who can get what they need out of the voter pool.

ANd that brings us to 5th - name recognition. You'd be stunned at how much people vote because they recognize the name and think they know something about the person. And Chow has that in spades.

[Nationalist]

On 6/11/2023 at 8:22 PM, CdnFox said:

well first off many of those immigrants are not eligible to vote. You have to become a citizen first, and studies show that's happening less and less with immigrants choosing to just stay landed immigrant and their kids are citizens

Second - historically even of those who are citizens they tend to have a lower than average turn out to vote.

Third - many of the 'immigrants' are or were refugees. They tend to vote the way that their sponsors and the people who help them integrate tend to vote and they tend to vote left of center.

Fourth - there were 102 candidates. so really it's more about organization and who can get what they need out of the voter pool.

ANd that brings us to 5th - name recognition. You'd be stunned at how much people vote because they recognize the name and think they know something about the person. And Chow has that in spades.

Indeed. Everyone here knows who Olivia Chow is. Just ask the subsidized housing commission. 

[Michael Hardner]

On 6/11/2023 at 7:52 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

How would Olivia Chow win in a city that elected Rob Ford?  Toronto is mostly immigrants, and most immigrants aren't exactly socialists, they come from countries with pretty conservative beliefs, except for the communist governments they flee for their lives from.

The funny thing is the local pundits who point out all of the problems we have... the many many problems... and then say that a left-wing candidate can't solve them.

But we've had right-wing mayors for 13 years now, so....

Anyway, the polls are all over the place - I wouldn't put [radical] centrist Ana Bailao out just yet.

[CdnFox]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The funny thing is the local pundits who point out all of the problems we have... the many many problems... and then say that a left-wing candidate can't solve them.

But we've had right-wing mayors for 13 years now, so....

Anyway, the polls are all over the place - I wouldn't put [radical] centrist Ana Bailao out just yet.

I wouldn't call tory right wing.

And that doesnt' change the fact a MORE left wing mayor can't solve them.

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. I wouldn't call tory right wing.

2. And that doesnt' change the fact a MORE left wing mayor can't solve them.

1. You think conservatives are left-wing, noted.  He ran for premier of Ontario as the leader of the Ontario Conservatives but no.... 
2. Can you blame the city, with 57% renters, when landlords are booting people onto the street to cash in ?  The class wars always start somewhere... the real mob (in all senses) isn't small businessmen or truck drivers, it's people who are going to be put on the street.  This is our biggest threat at the moment.

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You think conservatives are left-wing, noted.  He ran for premier of Ontario as the leader of the Ontario Conservatives but no.... 

 

LOL -  if you find you have to use the "what you REALLY mean is "  style of argument and re-write what other people say so you can argue against that, then you've admitted defeat  already

Obviously you know i'm right or you would have addressed the point, rather than pretend i said something i didn't. I"m sure that tactic is all the range in elementary schools  

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2. Can you blame the city, with 57% renters, when landlords are booting people onto the street to cash in ?  The class wars always start somewhere... the real mob (in all senses) isn't small businessmen or truck drivers, it's people who are going to be put on the street.  This is our biggest threat at the moment.

Well first off yes. The reason that landlords are booting people to the street to cash in would be that there aren't enough homes built. The city has a significant role to play there.

While i'd say there's argument that the province and the feds deserve a hunk of the credit as well as the feds the city also has to take a long hard look at it's planning.

Who would YOU blame? the landlords? That's a !diotic position to take.  The landlords bought properties to rent out, providing homes. Renters treat them like trash, and demand that landlords be punished and be forced to provide housing for free (if they had their way).  Landlords look at this and say "yikes - i'm out".  and now it's their fault they don't want to be landlords? Hardly.

There's a lot of things the city can do to keep landlords in the game. Though renters themselves are a serious part of the problem

[OftenWrong]

Interesting that "The System" has taken steps to ensure she is in the best position moving forward. Not by outright corruption and lies, no, but by suppressing the voice of those who present a viable option to hers.

Democracy means being third in polls but excluded from debates

The latest snubbing occurred Monday in a debate broadcast on CBC and attended by front-runner Olivia Chow, second place in polling Mark Saunders, fourth place Ana Bailao, fifth place Josh Matlow, sixth place Mitzie Hunter and seventh place Brad Bradford. No third place Furey though.

I hope you people get what is happening there. But judging by the attitudes and quality of posts in this forum, probably not. Remember to go out and vote, all ye donkeys.

[RedDog]

Has this loafer ever actually had a job in the private sector?

[antiwoke]

Hope not. Defund the police and safe injection sites plus " hug a thug" policies will make Toronto worse than many us cities. We have tents and homeless and drug addicts and lots of violent gangs now, it will be worse quickly under any leftist.

[ironstone]

On 6/15/2023 at 5:50 PM, RedDog said:

Has this loafer ever actually had a job in the private sector?

The closest thing to a private sector job she ever had was that she was an "artist" after graduation.

After that it's pretty much all politics and being on the public dime.

[Michael Hardner]

On 6/15/2023 at 5:50 PM, RedDog said:

Has this loafer ever actually had a job in the private sector?

Like Poilievre... right ?  

Let's see... yep was a productive artist who owned a studio according to Wiki  That's one up on Pierre, I guess...

[herbie]

The whole point of which has nothing to do with running for office.
Neither owned a cow either. Does that disqualify someone for running,

An offshoot of the m0ronic 'gov't should be run like a business' when it isn't one line of thinking.

[CdnFox]

 

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's see... yep was a productive artist who owned a studio according to Wiki  That's one up on Pierre, I guess...

So - not a real job then    LOL

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 

So - not a real job then    LOL

I guess you've never run your own business, especially in arts business?

 

It doesn't matter the point is you're out to find a way to disparage someone.. and then apply that in uneven ways.  Your boy Poilievre has been sucking public teat since he was in Ayn Rand designer diapers.

[ExFlyer]

On 6/11/2023 at 7:52 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

How would Olivia Chow win in a city that elected Rob Ford?  Toronto is mostly immigrants, and most immigrants aren't exactly socialists, they come from countries with pretty conservative beliefs, except for the communist governments they flee for their lives from.

Toronto is liberal, it loves Trudeau and Chow is NDP...a wannabe liberal LOL

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I guess you've never run your own business, especially in arts business?

LOL  - there's that legendary "hardner sense of humour" again   What a dreary life you must lead.

Frankly i have run my own business quite successfully and am very well acquainted with what goes into running an actual arts business for several reasons.

BUT - it's pretty clear you're thinking she had some sort of "store" where she bought and sold art and it was on display etc. That is NOT what she had - she had an "art studio" - a small place where she made art for clients.  And she didn't make much money at it.  Having a little room where you make statues and figures out of clay at specific people's requests is not quite the same as having  a regular job.

However - it was pretty obvious that despite the fact you are wrong and misinformed, my comment was intended to be more tongue in cheek even tho it's actually accurate.

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Your boy Poilievre has been sucking public teat since he was in Ayn Rand designer diapers.

Yeah.  I'm not the one who suggested that being a career politician is a bad thing. In fact i've argued quite the opposite on many occasions.

I'm not the one having the freak out here - that would be you. When you claimed Chow had this extensive career in business before politics I chuckled and made a comment. When you doubled down i pointed out you're wrong and it wasnt what you think.

Frankly i think being a careeer politician SHOULD be a good thing for higher offices.  Trudeau was a newbie and look where that got us.  Mind you his big job before then also involved the arts didn't it  

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. That is NOT what she had - she had an "art studio" - a small place where she made art for clients.  And she didn't make much money at it.  Having a little room where you make statues and figures out of clay at specific people's requests is not quite the same as having  a regular job.

 

2. Frankly i think being a careeer politician SHOULD be a good thing for higher offices.    

1. It's still a business, what's your problem?

2. I guess you love Chow then.

Pretty clear your retrofitting whatever your definition of good experiences to fit the twerp who spent his whole career in government.

(I concur that I misread what studio meant, so let's cut off reams of paragraphs you're about to type about how I tried to deceive you and how sad you were about that etc.)

 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's still a business, what's your problem?

 

Well technically it is - but then again technically so is a paper route

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2. I guess you love Chow then.

Wow - so you base your support on a politician on ONE attribute?  Actually - that explains a lot.

I give her positive points for having been a successful professional politician - but i take off several million for her policies and elements of her track  record. The balance sheet still has her in the red i'm afraid. (or the orange i guess).  See - most reasonable people actually consider more than one thing when evaluating a politician.

You're kind of a shallow guy.

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Pretty clear your retrofitting whatever your definition of good experiences to fit the twerp who spent his whole career in government.

Wow - that's really reaching    I chuckled at the idea of her 'extensive job experiences' outside politics - which tunrs out is someone who made the odd little clay figure for people now and again .  

Hey  - if you'd been more honest and said "Well i don't think her prior work matters' i'd probably have been supporting you saying i agree, but you made such a big deal over a joke of a job that most people would more refer to as a paid hobby that it was too funny.  

 

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(I concur that I misread what studio meant, so let's cut off reams of paragraphs you're about to type about how I tried to deceive you and how sad you were about that etc.)

Sooooo -  I'm right, you're wrong, you're sorry.  Yeash - you should have just led with that instead of going on for paragraphs about how i tried to decieve you and how sad you were.  Oh... hey....

[Michael Hardner]

On 6/15/2023 at 5:50 PM, RedDog said:

Has this loafer ever actually had a job in the private sector?

 

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

  I'm not the one who suggested that being a career politician is a bad thing.  

No, the question was posed by Red dog above.

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

No, the question was posed by Red dog above.

Exactly. So blaming ME for it doesn't make much sense does it

I just found your characterization of her "employment"  as a "real job" amusing. I don't think most people would consider that a real job.  I also don't think that having had a 'real job' before getting into politics is relevant unless it was something directly related such as being an economist or a lawyer or the like where the knowledge directly transfers.

[The Unpopular Populist]

I'm yet another "politically homeless" left-leaning populist who finds herself drifting towards the centre, and occasionally flirting with the OTHER side. Although I still hold several tenets of my left-wing faith close to my heart, the pandemic and the Freedom Convoy shocked me into asking better questions, and lifting up rocks to uncover problematic details about people I (previously) respected. In other words, if I was American, I'd support RFK Jr, without unequivocally supporting his full campaign platform. 

 

Anyhoo! Just wanted to provide context, as I'm new to these parts. I voted for John Tory in the last three elections, yet due to my recent ideological shift, I'm having a difficult time deciding who to support. Bradford was my first choice, yet Saunders seems to be the "not-Olivia-Chow" candidate people are throwing their support behind. With such an enormous roster of candidates, voting strategically is essential, and I really want a centrist-plus mayor to be elected. Any feedback would be appreciated, and please be gentle.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Unpopular Populist

[Michael Hardner]

The answer is 'yes' it seems.

[herbie]

Let the caterwauling and exaggerated horror stories begin.

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, herbie said:

Let the caterwauling and exaggerated horror stories begin.

You mean from torontonians as they descend into the hellish landscape that awaits them year three?  I doubt they'll be exaggerated

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

  

To fix our public transit system, we need a combination of socialism and collaboration with the private sector. Will you be willing to work with the private sector and embrace innovative solutions to improve our public transit network?!

 

I agreed with your approach to this, Contrarian, really I did.  Then I heard a podcast by actual EXPERTS as to what went wrong with the Eglinton LRT and it WAS a public private partnership.

Ontario's Metrolinx seems to be WAY better at building things.

https://www.tvo.org/video/why-cant-ontario-build-big-things-anymore