Government funds Catholic schools but not other religion's schools

[August1991]

In Canada, we have no central federal bureaucracy for education. Health issues are entirely provincial.

====

In Canada, we have no federal HEW.  

Yet, I understand the logic of Nixon creating the federal EPA.

Edited April 13, 2023 by August1991

[blackbird]

30 minutes ago, herbie said:

No just you. "Papal system", "Romanism" pretty much gives your whole lean away. Try moving to N  Ireland to restart the 'troubles'

No, we don't need violence.  Why would you think of that?  How about peaceful conversation or is that not in your thinking?  We live in a democracy with freedom of speech and thought.  Romanism won't save anybody from hell.  The Bible makes that clear.  Don't believe me.  Read your New Testament.  Or would you rather nobody warn you of possible damnation?

[blackbird]

32 minutes ago, August1991 said:

On the contrary.

In a civilised federal State, each provincial government organizes education in its own local manner.  

Why do you think all taxpayers should pay for one particular religion especially?  I thought this was supposed to be a fair country for all.

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

No just you. "Papal system", "Romanism" pretty much gives your whole lean away.

Romanism is a descriptive word that is historically accurate.  That's were it all began, in the Roman Empire by Emperor Constantine.

Tell me one thing about it that will save you from damnation?

Since you seem to be a big defender of it, maybe you should seriously read the New Testament and compare Romanism with the actual truth.

The Bible makes it clear salvation (going to heaven instead of hell) is not by belonging to a church, not by being baptized, not by following some church ordained sacraments, or believing in things that are not taught in the Bible.  

There is only one way to get to heaven and avoid hell and its not by one's good works or a religious system like Romanism.

"36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. "   John 3:36 KJV  

"12  Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. "  Hebrews 9:12 KJV

People that have been indoctrinated or learned Papal teaching are in a difficult position because they need to learn what the Bible really teaches and how what they have been taught is wrong and contrary to the Bible.  

Home Page | Let the Bible Speak (ltbs.tv)

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

Try moving to N  Ireland to restart the 'troubles'

No, I'll leave that to the nutcases and terrorists.  I prefer our country where some people don't mind talking out their differences.

Romanism is one of the worst things that happened to the western world in the last 1,700 years.  Before 312 A.D. they threw Bible believers into the lion's den at the Colliseum in Rome.  When Constantine was allegedly converted to Christianity in 312 A.D., he legalized it and gradually the papacy began with the first official "Pope" around 500 A.D.  Over the centuries millions of people had it imposed on them by decree and millions more fell for the new religion that has little resemblance to what Jesus and the apostles taught in the New Testament.  Jesus wore some rags and walked around in sandals and had nothing.  Popes have been carried by a dozen men on their shoulders in fine decorated garments and control billions of dollars and ruled the western world.  They appointed kings and emperors.  Ordered crusades to conquer their enemies.  Directed the Holy Roman Inquisition that tortured and executed heretics and Jews for centuries.  Hardly something that the humble Jesus would do or have any part in.  Jesus was crucified for claiming to be the Son of God.  Without any sanction in the N.T. the Popes claimed to be another Christ or in fact God on earth.  Almighty rulers of mankind on earth?  Do you believe it?  Read the history and find out.

Do you think there is any resemblance to what Jesus taught?  Why don't you read the New Testament and tell me what you think.  Am I right or wrong?  I am open to serious discussion on that.

In any case, why are we in Canada subsidizing that false system with RC schools and a 35 million dollar papal visit.  I thought all religions were equal as far as government was concerned and none were supposed to be supported by taxpayers.  But we find out now our supposedly democratic system is more of a Papal autocracy, but never mentioned.  See no evil, speak no evil.  Just keep the cash flowing for it.  What would Jesus say?

Do you think Politicians fawn over the Pope?  Who is in charge here?

Edited April 13, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

No just you. "Papal system"

Romans 3:10 says "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."  

That paints a pretty bad picture.  What is the destiny for most of mankind in that case?  

quote

Whether Jew or Gentile, male or female, young or old, rich or poor, most people delight to think of themselves as worthy in the sight of God and of greater merit than other people. Most consider themselves deserving of heaven and that they are a little more principled, and a little more virtuous than the rest of humanity.

But Paul outlines God's condemnation of the intent of man's heart. He details in sober terms the inner thoughts of man's mind and he records in stark language what God thinks of man's actions, man's attitudes, man's words, and fallen man's sinful state: "As it is written, there is none righteous, no - not even one."

God's declaration of the whole of humanity is GUILTY. Guilty before God. Measured against the goodness of God, humanity stands condemned. When compared with the righteousness of Christ Jesus our Lord, the whole world is guilty before God.

Imputed sin and inherited sin is the birthright of all mankind, for sin has affected the warp and woof of the genetic make-up of every man and woman born into this human race. We are not sinners because we sin - we sin because we are sinners by birth, guilty before God: "For as it is written, there is none righteous, no - not even one."

Source: https://dailyverse.knowing-jesus.com/romans-3-10

unquote

Do you agree with this?  What's your view?

[BeaverFever]

22 hours ago, blackbird said:

Catholic schools are funded in Ontario, Saskatchewan, Alberta and the three territories and likely in Quebec.  Protestant or non-Catholic religious schools are not funded in Ontario.

This seems contrary to the Constitution and Charter of Rights in that one religion is given preferential treatment while others are discriminated against.  This has a huge negative effect on many non-Catholics because the cost of sending kids to private schools is very high.  So middle or low income earners would not be able to afford it in many cases without government funding the schools.  Yet everyone must pay taxes to pay for education.

This all follows the same agenda we saw with the Pope's PR trip to Canada being covered to the tune of 35 million dollars.  As much as Trudeau and liberals put on the act of trying to treat all religions the same and equally, it is obvious they treat one religion more equally than others.  Why is that?  The reason is obvious.  Most of the Liberals are themselves Papists and are using the system to the benefit of their own religion at taxpayer's expense.

I don’t know that “most” liberals are catholic or even all that religious at all.  

And the Liberals control the provinces now?

 

That said, the catholic schools should just be done away with and absorbed by the public system. Religious beliefs are inherently antithetical to modern education and critical thinking, and certainly have no place in publicly funded education. And I say this as the husband of a Catholic school teacher. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by BeaverFever

[blackbird]

33 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

I don’t know that “most” liberals are catholic or even all that religious at all.  

And the Liberals control the provinces now?

 

That said, the catholic  Schools should just be sone away with and absorbed by the public system. Religious beliefs are inherently antithetical to modern education and critical thinking, and certainly have no place in publicly funded education. And I say this as the husband of a Catholic school teacher. 

Most liberals are probably Catholic because the fact is Quebec is 95% Catholic and most PMs come from Quebec and many of their cabinet ministers come from Quebec.  Likely high percentage are Catholic.  Even though many Catholics are non-practicing I know for a fact they still consider themselves Catholic.  It's kind of crutch they think will save them, even though it won't.

No private religious school can be absorbed by the public system because freedom of religion is a basic Charter Right in Canada.

But there is no reason why the taxpayers should be funding one religion's school systems.  Canada is far from treating all citizens in a fair and balanced way even though it professes to.

Religious beliefs are completely rational.  It is irrational not to believe in a Creator and a God who is as described in the Bible.  Just stands to reason.  The complexity of the universe and vast amounts of information for everything and all life to function could not have just appeared without a cause.  Every effect has a cause.  So there is a cause of the universe and a reason for our existence.   We are not just a bunch of chemicals that accidentally appeared out of nowhere.

The most foolish thing was for educational institutions to bring in an unproven theory, i.e. the theory of evolution and teach it as if it were fact.  It has been debunked by many highly educated scholars including many scientists.  It is irrational and explains nothing.  All it ever did was turn people away from belief in the true God of the Bible and our Creator.  This has put society in a more dangerous and dysfunctional position.  Likely contributes to more problems, crime, and mental illnesses.

Edited April 13, 2023 by blackbird

[BeaverFever]

23 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Most liberals are probably Catholic because the fact is Quebec is 95% Catholic and most PMs come from Quebec and many of their cabinet ministers come from Quebec.  Likely high percentage are Catholic.  Even though many Catholics are non-practicing I know for a fact they still consider themselves Catholic.  It's kind of crutch they think will save them, even though it won't.

No private religious school can be absorbed by the public system because freedom of religion is a basic Charter Right in Canada.

But there is no reason why the taxpayers should be funding one religion's school systems.  Canada is far from treating all citizens in a fair and balanced way even though it professes to.

Religious beliefs are completely rational.  It is irrational not to believe in a Creator and a God who is as described in the Bible.  Just stands to reason.  The complexity of the universe and vast amounts of information for everything and all life to function could not have just appeared without a cause.  Every effect has a cause.  So there is a cause of the universe and a reason for our existence.   We are not just a bunch of chemicals that accidentally appeared out of nowhere.

The most foolish thing was for educational institutions to bring in an unproven theory, i.e. the theory of evolution and teach it as if it were fact.  It has been debunked by many highly educated scholars including many scientists.  It is irrational and explains nothing.  All it ever did was turn people away from belief in the true God of the Bible and our Creator.  This has put society in a more dangerous and dysfunctional position.  Likely contributes to more problems, crime, and mental illnesses.

I didn’t say private schools should be absorbed, only publicly funded Catholic ones. 
 

Federal politicians aren’t involved in public education decisions, which are exclusively the domain of provinces so your whole theory of a Catholic Québécois conspiracy is bogus even we accept the highly dubious claim that most liberals are catholic and the even more dubious claim that anyone who is even just nominally catholic but not religious is still an active agent of the catholic agenda. 
 

No, Religious beliefs by definition are not rational that’s why it’s called “religion”  not “science” and why’s places so much emphasis on “faith” instead of “facts.”  It is very irrational to argue that simply because the universe is infinitely complex or because modern science has not solved all the mysteries of the universe that there must be some divine or supernatural forces at work. It is even more absurd to argue that if there are divine forces at work they must be exactly as described in the Christian bible as opposed some other religion.  Your argument for Christianity is no more convincing than argument for Zeus or Thor or aliens from another solar system 

Evolution has mot been debunked, it is the prevailing accepted religious theory that is only denied by a small number of increasingly rare holdout religious zealots 

Mental health LOL yeah there are no mentally ill religious people right??

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by BeaverFever

[blackbird]

33 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

your whole theory of a Catholic Québécois conspiracy is bogus

Quote

 

Not bogus at all.  Even Trudeau attended a Jesuit-founded college in Quebec for his secondary education.  Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf gives it's stated goals on their website.  Obviously they don't state the main purpose of Jesuitism, which is the expanded control of the world by Rome.  That's why they were created in about 1540s.

The stated objectives of the Jesuit college are strangely very similar to the beliefs of the Liberal Party.  Surprise eh.  Same beliefs and ideology as a Jesuit college.  Well, I don't think there is much question Rome has a hand in the political system and government. 

Even 35 million dollars spent for the Pope's PR visit was automatically done by the government.  Nobody raised any question about it.  Even the media said nothing.  Silence.  Whatever Rome wants they get it. 

The word religion is actually a very general word that covers all the countless false religious beliefs in the world.

There can be only one truth.  It is silly to say the Bible is the same as all other religions.  It is entirely different.  But if one has never studied it or anything, it is nonsensical to dismiss it.  Just because one doesn't believe in the supernatural does not prove it is not a reality.  The Bible is full of evidence of its truth and authority.  Before dismissing something that you know nothing about, you should at least admit you know nothing about it and accept the possibility that there could be a God and the Bible could be true.  But dismissing something without any study is irrational.

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by blackbird

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

Are you sure funding Catholic schools by the government is protected by the Constitution or just the right to have Catholic schools?  

Yes, funding is protected, at least for primary grades. I believe this was extended to high school some decades ago but am unsure if that was by court decree or government arrangement.

In any event, you will never get rid of it as long as the public schools are seen as undisciplined shitholes because too many middle class people, including a lot of immigrant families who are not Catholic, send their kids to Catholic school to avoid the cesspool of the public system.

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

In any event, you will never get rid of it as long as the public schools are seen as undisciplined shitholes because too many middle class people, including a lot of immigrant families who are not Catholic, send their kids to Catholic school to avoid the cesspool of the public system.

You are probably correct.  Popery really controls this country.  It is unknowingly built into the fabric and culture of society.  If you examine Liberal ideology and the aims and objectives of the Jesuit college where Trudeau went for his secondary education, you will find their long list of aims is very similar to much of liberal ideology.  For example, that is where liberals get their globalism.  Trudeau went to China in 2015 and thought he could talk them into liberal thinking.  They just laughed him off and dismissed him as a kook.  Liberals don't understand Communist systems and think they can change the world with Jesuit ideology.  This has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible or Christianity.  It is a heathen religion with religious trappings and covers.

I attended a Catholic school for grades 8 and 9 when I was young.  The nuns treated me well.  I had no problem with that.  But it is not biblical Christianity at all.  I was converted in my thirties by the simple gospel message I heard over the radio.  The thing about people going to the Catholic school is they will be indoctrinated with Romanism which is a false religious system.  There have also been a lot of bad behavior from people who came from Catholic schools at times.  We saw that from the scandal around a Catholic private school in the Toronto area with the terrible abuse perpetrated by a number of boys on a classmate. 

I don't really know if Catholic schools produce better behaved or more law-abiding people than public schools.  It is possible, but have not seen any statistics about it.

[I am Groot]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I don't really know if Catholic schools produce better behaved or more law-abiding people than public schools.  It is possible, but have not seen any statistics about it.

Catholic schools are more disciplined and won't tolerate the misbehaviour of the public system. They're also less violent because of that and so tend to produce better academic results.

[OftenWrong]

22 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

They're also less violent because of that and so tend to produce better academic results.

That certainly was not my experience. I went to public school all my life but for one year, due to circumstances I had to attend catholic school. It was a shocking experience. 

The teachers were themselves violent. I remember shouting, one teacher totally losing it and was unable to stop his tantrum, right in front ofthe class. Another guy would grab students by the back of their neck and take them to another room, where we could hear him bawling the guy out. A third "teacher" got angry at me and threw my notebook across the room, shouting "Balls!!" as he did.

Students themselves behaved like barn animals, since they were treated with such violence they responded in kind.

Facilities and teachers were, to put it quite bluntly, shit. They were allowed to get away with it.  The principal was a preacher man.

I went back to public school the next year and things were normal again.

[BeaverFever]

22 hours ago, blackbird said:

Not bogus at all.  Even Trudeau attended a Jesuit-founded college in Quebec for his secondary education.  Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf gives it's stated goals on their website.  Obviously they don't state the main purpose of Jesuitism, which is the expanded control of the world by Rome.  That's why they were created in about 1540s.

The stated objectives of the Jesuit college are strangely very similar to the beliefs of the Liberal Party.  Surprise eh.  Same beliefs and ideology as a Jesuit college.  Well, I don't think there is much question Rome has a hand in the political system and government. 

Even 35 million dollars spent for the Pope's PR visit was automatically done by the government.  Nobody raised any question about it.  Even the media said nothing.  Silence.  Whatever Rome wants they get it. 

The word religion is actually a very general word that covers all the countless false religious beliefs in the world.

There can be only one truth.  It is silly to say the Bible is the same as all other religions.  It is entirely different.  But if one has never studied it or anything, it is nonsensical to dismiss it.  Just because one doesn't believe in the supernatural does not prove it is not a reality.  The Bible is full of evidence of its truth and authority.  Before dismissing something that you know nothing about, you should at least admit you know nothing about it and accept the possibility that there could be a God and the Bible could be true.  But dismissing something without any study is irrational.

 

Stephen Harper went and visited the pope in the Vatican.  I didn’t know he was a Quebec Catholic.  There are plenty of Protestant PMS throughout Canadian history including Liberal giants like Mackenzie King and Pearson and once again foe the hundred time PMs don’t control or influence provincial education policy. Your Katholik Konspiracy Kraziness is ridiculous. On the Israel thread there’s a conservative who thinks the world is run by a Jewish conspiracy. Why is every conservative a different kind of conspiracy nut these days?

 

The bible and Christianity is no more credible or provable and than any other religion or beliefs in space aliens the whole “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” was a lame argument when Republicans used it to falsely claim Saddam had WMDs, Democrats were operating a vast worldwide child sex trafficking ring, Obama was secretly a Kenyan-born islamist double agent, or that Vice Presidents have full authority and discretion to ignore election results at their personal whim declare themselves to be the winner. Those were all baseless claims where “prove it’s NOT true” were used to provide the claims were true amd that is the same argument you are making now. Also There is no such thing as a self-proving document. You seriously can’t figure out the logical error in saying “the bible is 100% true, according to the bible”. Again this is how republicans operate generally so perhaps not surprising. 
 

Anyway as I said sometime ago I don’t want to argue religion and I should stick to that as this kind of argument is probably the most pointless exercise on earth. Nobody is ever persuaded and all it really amounts to is trying to kick the crutch out from under someone else which is not my intent. So I’ll leave it here, be well. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by BeaverFever

[herbie]

Well it's good you don't believe in violence. Now if you could stem your intolerant ignorant ranting against Catholics and your attempts to browbeat everyone with your own peculiar so called Christian sectarianism we'd all be happy.

As others repeatedly pointed out Trudeau and the feds do not fund schools, provinces do. Some contribute but do not fully fund private schools regardless of them being Catholic, Protestant, or Sikh. One school here is funded by the School Board, the Band Office,he Catholic Church and parental contributions. To ensure it meets educational standards.

Like math, science and social tolerance, not just Jesus lessons.

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Stephen Harper went and visited the pope in the Vatican.

Yes, and that just proves what I said.  The Pope and Romanism has enormous influence over Canadian government.  Many, if not most governments in Canada's history were Liberal governments and most of them had PMs from Quebec is all I'm saying.  Most recent examples are the Trudeaus, father and son, both from Quebec, Jean Chretien, Mulroney, etc.  from Quebec.  Yes the Catholic church has enormous influence over Canada's government as much as you like to deny it.

While PMs and the federal government does not directly influence provincial education policy, they have an enormous influence on many other policies and things.  The federal government responsible for FNs and paid 35 million dollars for the Pope's visit to try to placate FNs and improve Rome's standing with FN and Canada.  Yes, Rome has a big influence through the federal government's pandering to Rome.

Let's be clear, I never said I could "prove" the Bible.  I said there is lots of evidence internally and externally.  There is lots of internal evidence for example that Jesus actually did perform many miracles because eye witnesses are counted as evidence in any court of law today.  They carry a lot of weight.  There were many eye witnesses to his resurrection as well recorded in the Bible.  That's internal evidence.  I know there is a difference between proof of something and evidence.

As far as the subject of creation versus evolution, there are thousands of articles and videos that point out endless reasons why creation is more credible than evolution.  Nobody can prove or disprove something that occurred long ago when there were no eye witnesses to the events.  It is not a matter of who has the absolute proof of it.  It is a matter of what seems most reasonable.  

Same with the question of God.  It is not something that I am claiming can be proven as in the scientific method by normal experiment of observation.  I am just saying that the preponderance of logic and reason supports the belief in divine creation rather than the theory of evolution.  As I said, you seem to automatically just dismiss something as nonsense without even listening to the arguments for it.  Everyone has to make that choice themselves.  All I'm saying is God loves everyone and wishes for them to come to the knowledge of the truth concerning his Son and salvation.  The alternative is eternal damnation according to the Bible.  But that's everyone's choice or so it seems.

Edited April 13, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Now if you could stem your intolerant ignorant ranting against Catholics and your attempts to browbeat everyone with your own peculiar so called Christian sectarianism we'd all be happy.

I already explained all that to you specifically.  If you want to bury your head in the sand, that's your choice.  I prefer to speak the truth about something that has serious consequences.  

What are you doing on the forum besides posting short nonsensical snippets at everything I say?  You're obviously not here to discuss anything back and forth rationally.  Are you some kind of puppet for Romanism?

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

could stem your intolerant ignorant ranting against Catholics

The answer is no herbie.  My comments are not directed to individual Catholics.  I am talking about the system, Romanism or the Papacy, which is perfectly reasonable as it has a huge effect on everything.

I don't think it is intolerant.  It is just the facts, the history, and the truth.  If the facts are uncomfortable, then maybe that's because you are supporting the wrong thing.  Ever thought of that?   

We shouldn't stop talking about Chinese Communist interference either because some people are Chinese and feel uncomfortable with it.  For the same reason, I won't stop talking about Romanism because some people are uncomfortable with it.  That's all part of freedom in a democratic country. 

[herbie]

You're accusing me of nonsensical posts? He who rants about everyone else being condemned to eternal damnation?

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

You're accusing me of nonsensical posts? He who rants about everyone else being condemned to eternal damnation?

Yes, I plead guilty of trying to help people avoid hell.  I posted Bible verse from time to time that simply point out that non-believers will be damned or condemned or I state that truth in my own words.  That is just the Biblical truth.  It doesn't hurt to repeat the message just on the off chance somebody will believe it and be saved.  Perhaps God chose dumb sinners like me to spread the word.  I know I will not win any popularity contests.  

What exactly do you believe since you seem to defend Romanism?  Do you think that will save you?  How does that work?

Edited April 14, 2023 by blackbird

[I am Groot]

19 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

That certainly was not my experience.

What slumtown did you grow up in anyway?

I went to Catholic schools in Montreal and Ottawa and neither was remotely like that. More importantly, they're definitely not like that now.

[OftenWrong]

20 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

What slumtown did you grow up in anyway?

I went to Catholic schools in Montreal and Ottawa and neither was remotely like that. More importantly, they're definitely not like that now.

They're not? I have reason to doubt that. I was in both systems so got to see the difference. That was in Toronto.

I'm sure they are funded a lot better in Montreal. Major government funding Quebec ass-kissers. Ottawa is inherently different and better funded than anywhere else, for same reason.

Edited April 14, 2023 by OftenWrong

[Boges]

In 2007, PC Candidate John Tory, proposed allowing other faith school to receive public funding. He was soundly defeated, mostly because of the policy. 

I don't think there's a real appetite to remove Public Catholic schools.

For parents, Catholic school seem more like poor man's private school. You have to wear a uniform, get taught about Religon, but mostly the same as Public school. Apparently in Secondary School, you don't really even need to be Catholic to attend. 

Though a lot oppose it, a lot also approve of it. So it's a political third rail for anyone looking to have Catholic School Boards disbanded. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Boges

[I am Groot]

6 hours ago, Boges said:

In 2007, PC Candidate John Tory, proposed allowing other faith school to receive public funding. He was soundly defeated, mostly because of the policy. 

You forgot HOW he was defeated.

The Liberals (!) basically did a scaremongering campaign which had the government funding Islamist religious schools which would raise a generation of suicide bombers.