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DeSantis on Ukraine


myata

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becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine...

DeSantis, Carlson

Burned, annihilated to dust cities; bombed hospitals, schools and maternity wards. Hundreds, probably thousands of documented war crimes... only a "territorial dispute".

A decision to participate in other people's war is an important one; it should not be taken lightly; objectivity and honesty; remembering the lessons of the past and the principles is an important part of it too.

"Territorial dispute", really? This is what you call a brutal invasion by a power-hungry dictator; not a bit better than that of Hitler in the past war? "Territorial dispute between Germany and Poland, 1940?"? "Should not have provoked Hitler?"

Liar.

For whatever reasons, if one begins ones path with a lie of this proportion, what else is there to see? Where would it develop? How can you take it back, words burned into the history? It's sad and pathetic that for whatever reasons this individual has chosen to lie to achieve whatever purposes, appeal to whoever. He does not have to like Ukraine or support it. He can have a different opinion. But he chose to lie.

In the world of tomorrow, if Putin is allowed to prevail, run by emboldened and encouraged Putins, Uns and any imaginable crazy dictator stuff with nukes you gonna focus on your more important priorities? Brainless. Stupid.

The take is clear: he did not find other, honest ways to make a convincing point. And, there's no reason to expect that having done it in this obvious, as clear as can be moral case he wouldn't do it again. Nothing else to see here. End of the story.

Edited by myata
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2 hours ago, myata said:

"territorial dispute".

Taiwan and Ukraine are territorial disputes. One is supported by the west, in that acceptable ways to call Taiwan, is to call it Taipei. The other is not.

If you read about history, you would see why both are contested plots of land.

As a result, the more control that is lost on these assets, the likelier the eventuality of war will occur.

This is a brutal invasion, but one must look at the motive behind it. This isn't a random invasion, based on Putin being bored. This was a land grab, many years in the making.

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With that in mind, Taiwan applying for NATO, would all but guarantee war on their island as well.

One must understand the dynamics of the situation, in knowing what poking the bear will result in. This war was preventable.

The US is attempting to destroy Russia, in what has become a proxy war, where they don't have to lose any of their own soldier's lives to fight.

Russia will never back down, and would rather escalate, than to lose face. One needs to know who you're dealing with, and this mindset that this will result in a win, is insane at best. Russia will continue with the total destruction of this country, until Ukraine is brought to the negotiating table, on terms that are acceptable to them.

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Taiwan and Ukraine are territorial disputes.

WWII was a "territorial dispute". Hitler thought he had the rights to the whole of Europe et voila.

Opposing Hitler had its consequences. That war was preventable (by not trying to defend yourself). Cower to Hitlers, past and modern and see what happens. Like try to discover it, again.

Well known stinking for miles brutal and terrorist, that's fact by the way, Hitler and Russia's talking points.

Good student.

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Has any of the countries

How does this matter? Borders in Europe changed hundreds of times. Where's any reason or substance here? Putin today is Hitler back then: same kind of an argument. I want it so I have right to it so it has to be mine, whatever I do. You cannot deny obvious facts. But you can decide on your position, and attitude.

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44 minutes ago, myata said:

How does this matter? Borders in Europe changed hundreds of times. Where's any reason or substance here? Putin today is Hitler back then: same kind of an argument. I want it so I have right to it so it has to be mine, whatever I do. You cannot deny obvious facts. But you can decide on your position, and attitude.

LOL..."AHHH!!! WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!!!"

Its 2023. Lets try to live in this century please.

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5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Taiwan and Ukraine are territorial disputes. One is supported by the west, in that acceptable ways to call Taiwan, is to call it Taipei. The other is not.

If you read about history, you would see why both are contested plots of land.

As a result, the more control that is lost on these assets, the likelier the eventuality of war will occur.

This is a brutal invasion, but one must look at the motive behind it. This isn't a random invasion, based on Putin being bored. This was a land grab, many years in the making.

You are an ignorant twit who knows absolutely nothing whatsoever about any of this.
 

After the USSR collapsed in 1989, a government was formed which was a confederation of independent states.  This confederation then agreed by treaty to dissolve into independent nations.  This is settled fact and international law. Not only Ukraine, but Belarus, and all the other former Soviet states are now independent nations. There is no dispute as to the borders or the legality. These nations have long had their own currency, UN seats, embassies, independent governments and so on. 
 

Russia simply invaded the independent country of Ukraine.  To put it simply, because big sentences are obviously difficult for you: Russia does not dispute the borders of Ukraine, they dispute the EXISTENCE of an independent Ukraine nation.  They want ALL of Ukraine to be part of Russia. That is not a dispute of “territory.” It is a dispute, or war, of the nation’s existence.  
 

The evidence is obvious: The Ukrainian people are fighting. With or without US weapons, they are fighting the Russians.  

Edited by Rebound
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10 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

LOL..."AHHH!!! WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!!!"

Its 2023. Lets try to live in this century please.

Putin has no justification whatsoever for invading Ukraine. Most of the world thought Ukraine would fall in a few weeks, and had it fallen, Putin would then have invaded another country and another. 
 

Ask yourself: What is the justification for invading Ukraine? Those people are fighting obviously, they do not want to be part of Russia.  

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17 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Putin has no justification whatsoever for invading Ukraine. Most of the world thought Ukraine would fall in a few weeks, and had it fallen, Putin would then have invaded another country and another. 
 

Ask yourself: What is the justification for invading Ukraine? Those people are fighting obviously, they do not want to be part of Russia.  

The reason given was that the eastern sliver of Ukraine is full of ethnic Russians who do not want to be part of Ukraine, and that Ukraine has unleashed a Neo-NAZI battalion on that region which was in the process of murdering anyone who spoke Russian.

The facts seem to support these accusations.

Your scared little insistence that Putin would proceed to invade NATO nations afterwards is completely unsubstantiated crap.

In my view...a nation which I have no desire to even visit, moved in on another nation I have no intentions of ever visiting. The "invader" has goodies the entire world needs. The "invaded" has very little to offer anyone. Maybe some grain. The "invaded" also tried and failed to join NATO because...well...their nation is a mess and corrupt as can be. So do I think jumping into this little war is a wise idea?

Fck no! I think its asinine. But...you can dawn your frilly skirt and pom poms and go cheerlead for a bigger and much more destructive war in Europe because:

A. You wouldn't be getting shot at here on this side of the pond.

B. You don't seem to be able to live comfortable without that teddy called Fear clutched to your chest.

 

Just remember...once you go out in your frilly cheerleading outfit...Sen. Lindsey Graham may just sneak up on you and try to slip you his Senatorial member.

Edited by Nationalist
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8 hours ago, myata said:

DeSantis, Carlson

Burned, annihilated to dust cities; bombed hospitals, schools and maternity wards. Hundreds, probably thousands of documented war crimes... only a "territorial dispute".

A decision to participate in other people's war is an important one; it should not be taken lightly; objectivity and honesty; remembering the lessons of the past and the principles is an important part of it too.

"Territorial dispute", really? This is what you call a brutal invasion by a power-hungry dictator; not a bit better than that of Hitler in the past war? "Territorial dispute between Germany and Poland, 1940?"? "Should not have provoked Hitler?"

Liar.

For whatever reasons, if one begins ones path with a lie of this proportion, what else is there to see? Where would it develop? How can you take it back, words burned into the history? It's sad and pathetic that for whatever reasons this individual has chosen to lie to achieve whatever purposes, appeal to whoever. He does not have to like Ukraine or support it. He can have a different opinion. But he chose to lie.

In the world of tomorrow, if Putin is allowed to prevail, run by emboldened and encouraged Putins, Uns and any imaginable crazy dictator stuff with nukes you gonna focus on your more important priorities? Brainless. Stupid.

The take is clear: he did not find other, honest ways to make a convincing point. And, there's no reason to expect that having done it in this obvious, as clear as can be moral case he wouldn't do it again. Nothing else to see here. End of the story.

Isn’t it better to end the war through negotiations? Can reasonable people disagree about the borders in the Donbas?

You are on the same side as war profiteers, Mitch McConnell, neocon warmongers, and Xi Jin Ping.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/ukraine-fight-will-weaken-both-us-and-russia-china-is-the-winner-101646175286015.html

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/06/28/ukraine-latest-neocon-disaster

https://prospect.org/power/the-members-of-congress-who-profit-from-war/

Edited by Mako
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13 minutes ago, Mako said:

Isn’t it better to end the war through negotiations? Can reasonable people disagree about the borders in the Donbas?

You are on the same side as war profiteers, Mitch McConnell, neocons, and Xi Jin Ping.

Putin doesn't deal in negotiations. He invaded Crimea and got away with it, why not go for more? Then it was supposedly just the Donbas, then it is a land bridge between Donbas and Crimea, then it will be Odessa. He will keep picking away until he is stopped. People like Nationalist don't learn anything from history, Putin has.

First it was the Rineland, then Austria, then the Sudetenland, then the rest of Czechoslovakia, then Poland. It did work for Hitler until finally he went to far. Putin should have been stopped in 2014, now we are seeing the result of appeasement. 

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8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Putin doesn't deal in negotiations. He invaded Crimea and got away with it, why not go for more? Then it was supposedly just the Donbas, then it is a land bridge between Donbas and Crimea, then it will be Odessa. He will keep picking away until he is stopped. People like Nationalist don't learn anything from history, Putin has.

First it was the Rineland, then Austria, then the Sudetenland, then the rest of Czechoslovakia, then Poland. It did work for Hitler until finally he went to far. Putin should have been stopped in 2014, now we are seeing the result of appeasement. 

Wow, not every dictator is Hitler. Let’s give the Hitler analogy a rest, it’s exhausted.

Putin’s aims might be limited. Reasonable Russians have concerns about NATO expansion and Russian minorities within Ukraine. Give peace a chance.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-invasion-end-ukraine-war-four-conditions-1685492

Edited by Mako
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9 hours ago, myata said:

DeSantis, Carlson

Burned, annihilated to dust cities; bombed hospitals, schools and maternity wards. Hundreds, probably thousands of documented war crimes... only a "territorial dispute".

A decision to participate in other people's war is an important one; it should not be taken lightly; objectivity and honesty; remembering the lessons of the past and the principles is an important part of it too.

"Territorial dispute", really? This is what you call a brutal invasion by a power-hungry dictator; not a bit better than that of Hitler in the past war? "Territorial dispute between Germany and Poland, 1940?"? "Should not have provoked Hitler?"

Liar.

For whatever reasons, if one begins ones path with a lie of this proportion, what else is there to see? Where would it develop? How can you take it back, words burned into the history? It's sad and pathetic that for whatever reasons this individual has chosen to lie to achieve whatever purposes, appeal to whoever. He does not have to like Ukraine or support it. He can have a different opinion. But he chose to lie.

In the world of tomorrow, if Putin is allowed to prevail, run by emboldened and encouraged Putins, Uns and any imaginable crazy dictator stuff with nukes you gonna focus on your more important priorities? Brainless. Stupid.

The take is clear: he did not find other, honest ways to make a convincing point. And, there's no reason to expect that having done it in this obvious, as clear as can be moral case he wouldn't do it again. Nothing else to see here. End of the story.

It never would have happened if LYING JOE hadn't stolen the presidency. Putin NEVER would have had the balls to pull the stunts he's pulling now.

DeSantis is entirely correct. He is not lying

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18 minutes ago, Mako said:

Wow, not every dictator is Hitler. Let’s give the Hitler analogy a rest, it’s exhausted.

Putin’s aims might be limited. Reasonable Russians have concerns about NATO expansion and Russian minorities within Ukraine. Give peace a chance.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-invasion-end-ukraine-war-four-conditions-1685492

I'm not saying Putin is Hitler, just that he learned from him. When Finland joins NATO, Putin  will have another NATO country on his border, currently there are just Latvia and Estonia. If he takes over Ukraine, he will have four more NATO countries on his border. Not only do you guys not learn anything from history, you don't seem capable of reading a map.

Putin is actually trying to push his borders closer to NATO countries.

Edited by Aristides
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14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I'm not saying Putin is Hitler, just that he learned from him. When Finland joins NATO, Putin  will have another NATO country on his border, currently there are just Latvia and Estonia. If he takes over Ukraine, he will have four more NATO countries on his border. Not only do you guys not learn anything from history, you don't seem capable of reading a map.

You lecture other people about map reading, but you forget that Russia currently borders Lithuania and Poland.

I think any Russian leader would want Ukraine to remain outside of NATO.

Edited by Mako
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1 minute ago, Mako said:

You lecture other people about map reading, but you forget that Russia currently borders Lithuania and Poland.

 

Only at Kaliningrad. Next he will be invading the Baltic countries or Belarus to link it with the rest of Russia, the same as Hitler using Danzig as an excuse to invade Poland. Why do you think the Baltic countries joined NATO? They aren't stupid.

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11 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Only at Kaliningrad. Next he will be invading the Baltic countries or Belarus to link it with the rest of Russia, the same as Hitler using Danzig as an excuse to invade Poland. Why do you think the Baltic countries joined NATO? They aren't stupid.

Belarus seems already subservient to Russia. I doubt Putin will invade the Baltic countries which would probably lead to a nuclear exchange.

Instead of your ill-informed speculation why not give peace a chance?

If we imagine every world leader is Hitler the wars will never end. Remember when Saddam was Hitler? 

Edited by Mako
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2 minutes ago, Mako said:

Belarus seems already subservient to Russia. I doubt Putin will invade the Baltic countries which would probably lead to a nuclear exchange.

Instead of your ill-informed speculation why not give peace a chance?

Russia destroyed the peace, now they want it back on their terms. Ukraine says no.

Russia won't invade the Baltic countries because they belong to NATO. See how that works.

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50 minutes ago, Mako said:

Wow, not every dictator is Hitler. Let’s give the Hitler analogy a rest, it’s exhausted.

Putin’s aims might be limited. Reasonable Russians have concerns about NATO expansion and Russian minorities within Ukraine. Give peace a chance.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-invasion-end-ukraine-war-four-conditions-1685492

So you agree that is is acceptable for Putin to invade another country and it should be allowable? 
 

Same as Chamberlain? “We have a peace treaty that accepts Hitler’s invasion of Czechoslovakia, in exchange for peace!!”  How’d that work? 
 

If Russia conquers Ukraine, he won’t stop there. And once conquered, these nations will remain occupied for half a century or longer.  The defiance of the Ukrainian people make it clear that they do not want to become part of Russia. 

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5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Russia destroyed the peace, now they want it back on their terms. Ukraine says no.

Russia won't invade the Baltic countries because they belong to NATO. See how that works.

Russia didn’t invade the Baltic nations when they applied to NATO, but Russians were not happy. Russian leaders feel they have to draw the line somewhere and Ukraine is where many want to draw the line. 

If a Ukraine outside of NATO will bring peace let’s give it a try. Even talk about NATO membership for Ukraine obviously has helped produce the current disaster.

You should recognize that the CCP is the primary danger to the U.S. Xi Jin Ping is delighted to see NATO and Russia at each other’s throats.

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3 minutes ago, Rebound said:

So you agree that is is acceptable for Putin to invade another country and it should be allowable? 
 

Same as Chamberlain? “We have a peace treaty that accepts Hitler’s invasion of Czechoslovakia, in exchange for peace!!”  How’d that work? 
 

If Russia conquers Ukraine, he won’t stop there. And once conquered, these nations will remain occupied for half a century or longer.  The defiance of the Ukrainian people make it clear that they do not want to become part of Russia. 

Saddam was Hitler. Now Putin is Hitler. Don’t you dupes ever learn?

Diplomacy/negotiations could have prevented this war and can end this war. An independent Ukraine outside of NATO and territorial adjustments in the Donbas: that’s something both sides can live with.

But I guess you prefer the atrocities, which are being committed by both sides.

 

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It's good that some Republicans realize this war is a horrific attack on Freedom and Democracy. 

And the comparisons to Hitler annexing territory in 1939 is a perfect comparable. 

Anyone who see it otherwise is just an Pro-Putin Chamberlain. pEaCe In OuR tImE. 

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