The Left is Destroying Western Civilization

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

British West Canada?  I'd be okay with that.

As long as they don't call it Cascadia...

We won't call it that until we're confederated from California to Alaska.

Whatever they call it we'll be amongst the next set of super-powes that follow the Great Interregnum. I figure 500 - 1000 years from now. Maybe 250 if we're lucky.

[Nefarious Banana]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Because it is the only source of truth. . .  Truth does not fall from the sky, or in some book that someone wrote unless it originates from the Bible.  When I am talking about truth, I am talking specifically about moral truth and moral history of mankind, and how God created mankind and eternal truths about mankind.  These are things that the Bible is the authority on.  

Through countless rewrites, revisions, removals, and translations . . . . is it any wonder that people question the intent and accuracy of the Bible?  Your truth is not everyone's truth.  There are many folks around the world in many different cultures that know nothing of the Bible, but are fine moral people.  They know their truth and it likely isn't your truth, and it's wrong of Bible adherents to try to trump someone else's belief system.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Nefarious Banana
spelling

[Zeitgeist]

24 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So when the bible says “kill gay people”, then it is moral to kill gay people?  Or it was moral at the time, but now it is not?

It doesn’t say that.  Don’t mislead.  

[Zeitgeist]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We won't call it that until we're confederated from California to Alaska.

Whatever they call it we'll be amongst the next set of super-powes that follow the Great Interregnum. I figure 500 - 1000 years from now. Maybe 250 if we're lucky.

No you’ll be in the ocean after the next major earthquake.  

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You have not given any other source so I must assume you have nothing. 

They have Marx and Engels

[blackbird]

51 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Through countless rewrites, revisions, removals, and translations . . . . is it any wonder that people question the intent and accuracy of the Bible? 

False.  Only skeptics and heretics question the accuracy of the King James Bible.  There are many corrupt modern Bible translations in English, but the King James Bible is 100% accurate and trustworthy.

There is a vast amount of information to prove that.

"How We Got the Bible
A seven lesson course on how the Lord gave and preserved His Word through the centuries.
By Cooper Abrams"

How We Got the Bible - How God superintended the writing of His word and preserved it. (bible-truth.org)

It is easy to throw out one-liner sentences with no proof and it is easy to simply refuse to read any articles to learn the facts, such as the above website.  I have even run into some church leaders and elders that automatically reject any information such as the article in the link above.  That's just the way the corrupt world is.

Edited February 27, 2023 by blackbird

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

@OftenWrong

?

The number 1 Soviet Thinker on this board, the man that rants against elites and success in the West talks about Marx.

Agitator, I see right through you. You can't deflect.

Marx was a low-life manipulator just like some of your postings in my estimation. A man that did not even do his own laundry and lived on other people's success. A lazy person. 

• Objectivism as an example had nothing to do with religion, but with productivity, nothing a state-assisted collector would know about.

Listen, try a job, I already figure it out quickly, you are a man that if he lived during the Soviet Times, would be wearing the red uniform and going after people that had money because you can't handle starting a business. 

Forget the business, you can't even be a regular soldier in society, you complain about McDonald's jobs. ? Those people have integrity doing those jobs. They are doing something to provide a service.

---

brother @blackbird with you, I can talk any day, you are not a troll, but a man of conviction in my opinion, even though I don't agree with you. 

You asked me what I believe in, well, for so many years this is what kept me going (see below), now the older I get, I realize, need to be a little bit more part of society. 

Is a hard battle let me tell you with all the dogmatics and narrow-minded folks around. I like a challenge though. 

You'd really like me to engage you, wouldn't you. You're like a big pussey begging for some.

But naah. 
I only like the more mature types.

 

[OftenWrong]

You've chosen to ignore content by Contrarian.

what a great feature

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

 There are many folks around the world in many different cultures that no nothing of the Bible, but are fine moral people. 

none of those cultures created Western civilization

the power of Christ is in the idea of the sacred individual

inalienable rights endowed by the Creator

only Christians have ever gone to war to free all the slaves everywhere,  or die trying

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

. . . is it any wonder that people question the intent and accuracy of the Bible?  Your truth is not everyone's truth. 

"

The salvation of men and their eternal destiny in heaven or hell rests on question as to whether the Bible is the inspired, preserved and accurate word of God or not. Because of the Bible being God's word to us as to how we may know Him and receive eternal life , throughout history there have many attacks on the authenticity of the Bible. Some are open and direct and others more subtle in seeking to discredit and cast a shadow over the Bible as being God's word. Clearly there is a common source for each of these attacks and that source is Satan himself who seeks to destroy men by destroying mankind's only source of knowledge of God and redemption from sin. Unregenerate and unbelieving men who are rejecting God, in the pride of their own selfish and corrupted minds, think they do a great service by criticizing the Bible. How sad and tragic is it that a man would personally reject God's love for them and His salvation and then seek to rob others of God's truth. The Lord gave a solemn warning to those who would tamper with His word in Revelation 22;18-19:

How We Got the Bible - How God superintended the writing of His word and preserved it. (bible-truth.org)

 (Rev. 22:18-19).  " 18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Those are the the second and third last verses of the Bible.  Extremely important.  One's eternal destiny hangs on those words.  Remember the Bible was probably the biggest selling book in history.  It has been translated into many languages.  Millions upon million of people acquired it over the last number of centuries.  There is a reason for that.

Edited February 27, 2023 by blackbird

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

So when the bible says “kill gay people”, then it is moral to kill gay people?  Or it was moral at the time, but now it is not?

Retract your lie.  

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

It doesn’t say that.  Don’t mislead.  

the practice that ancient Christians opposed was pederasty

it was the norm in the ancient Greco-Roman world

Sparta for example was a society entirely based on pederasty

the ancient Christians had no concept of homosexuality, that idea does even exist until the 19th century

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It doesn’t say that.  Don’t mislead.  

Leviticus 20:13

“’If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

Edited February 27, 2023 by TreeBeard

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Leviticus 20:13

“’If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

Leviticus is the third book of the Torah

those laws are Judaism not Christianity

[Zeitgeist]

15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the practice that ancient Christians opposed was pederasty

it was the norm in the ancient Greco-Roman world

Sparta for example was a society entirely based on pederasty

the ancient Christians had no concept of homosexuality, that idea does even exist until the 19th century

Treebeard makes a virtue of homosexuality.  He’s part of the movement against “heteronormativity”, the most ridiculous cause to date, basically saying that anything that falls in the normative range, how the vast majority of humans act, is bad.  

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Treebeard makes a virtue of homosexuality.  He’s part of the movement against “heteronormativity”, the most ridiculous cause to date, basically saying that anything that falls in the normative range, how the vast majority of humans act, is bad.  

homosexuality is ostensibly a healthy same sex relationship

the ancient Christians had no understanding of that

again, what the ancient Christians encountered was pederasty

in terms of being put to death for pederasty, that was the Jews who invoked that, not the Christians

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No you’ll be in the ocean after the next major earthquake.  

The part of the coast I'm on is rolling towards North America so we'll actually be higher hereabouts. We're gaining a millimeter a year as well.

[TreeBeard]

9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Leviticus is the third book of the Torah

those laws are Judaism not Christianity

The claim was about morality in the bible, not just the New Testament.   Leviticus is most certainly part of the bible.  

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 basically saying that anything that falls in the normative range, how the vast majority of humans act, is bad.  

that's very Christian in fact

the Great Awokening

the ancient Christians did not come from Judea, did not live in Judea

the story of Christ spread to the Roman Pagans

it was the Pagans who converted to Christianity, not the Jews

and in the ancient Christian world, they were tearing down what was "normative"

to include pederasty

[TreeBeard]

10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Treebeard makes a virtue of homosexuality.  He’s part of the movement against “heteronormativity”, the most ridiculous cause to date, basically saying that anything that falls in the normative range, how the vast majority of humans act, is bad.  

No, things in the “normative range” are not “bad”.  Otherwise, I guess I’d hate myself?  
 

But things outside the “normative range” are not bad either.  Like being left-handed, while not being normal, is also not bad. 

[TreeBeard]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the ancient Christians had no understanding of that

Leviticus only mentions men.  It says nothing of children.  I think you are just making this up to suit your beliefs. 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

The claim was about morality in the bible, not just the New Testament.   Leviticus is most certainly part of the bible.  

the New Testament is the conclusion

the New Testament supplants the Torah within the Bible

that is the story of the book

[TreeBeard]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

the New Testament is the conclusion

the New Testament supplants the Torah within the Bible

that is the story of the book

Even if I grant this, my question was about the morality of killing men, as per Leviticus.  Was it moral when God said it in Leviticus, but became immoral later?  

[Dougie93]

Just now, TreeBeard said:

Leviticus only mentions men.  It says nothing of children.  I think you are just making this up to suit your beliefs. 

the passage is speaking to the young boys, telling them not to participate

the idea of homosexuality does not exist until the 19th century

there was no recognized homosexuality in the ancient Christian world

so they could not have had any position for nor against it

this has nothing do with my beliefs, it is logical extrapolation based on the historical record

[TreeBeard]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the passage is speaking to the young boys, telling them not to participate

the idea of homosexuality does not exist until the 19th century

there was no recognized homosexuality in the ancient Christian world

so they could not have had any position for nor against it

this has nothing do with my beliefs, it is logical extrapolation based on the historical record

This is nonsense.  No one I have ever read has had your particular interpretation.  
 

But, even if I grant that, my question about the morality of the killing still applies.  Which was the point. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by TreeBeard