Tyre Nichols would be alive to day if he hadn't resisted arrest

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, reason10 said:

I disagree about the media's interest in police brutality. If it bleeds it leads.

Similar things have happened to white men and been largely ignored. Compare the reaction of the media to the video death of George Floyd vs the utter nothing about the identical police killings of Tony Timpa or Edward Bronstein. The news media are laser focused on things they can call racist, even where there's no evidence of racist. Basically anywhere a black person is victimized or can be portrayed as being victimized by white people. The reverse is ignored as much as possible for fear of causing anti-Black racism.

Which is one of the reasons the media NEVER mentions the vastly disproportionate amount of crime being committed by black people. It will talk about how they're pulled over more, searched more, subjected to police violence more, but always in the context of how unfair this is. They never mention just how much crime, particularly violent the Black community is responsible for. Canada's media behaves in an identical fashion, btw.

 

[reason10]

Just now, I am Groot said:

Similar things have happened to white men and been largely ignored. Compare the reaction of the media to the video death of George Floyd vs the utter nothing about the identical police killings of Tony Timpa or Edward Bronstein. The news media are laser focused on things they can call racist, even where there's no evidence of racist. Basically anywhere a black person is victimized or can be portrayed as being victimized by white people. The reverse is ignored as much as possible for fear of causing anti-Black racism.

Which is one of the reasons the media NEVER mentions the vastly disproportionate amount of crime being committed by black people. It will talk about how they're pulled over more, searched more, subjected to police violence more, but always in the context of how unfair this is. They never mention just how much crime, particularly violent the Black community is responsible for. Canada's media behaves in an identical fashion, btw.

 

That is true. Look how the eggheads went totally ballistic with the publication of "The Bell Curve."

[I am Groot]

1 minute ago, reason10 said:

That is true. Look how the eggheads went totally ballistic with the publication of "The Bell Curve."

I have no idea what  you're talking about here.

[reason10]

10 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I have no idea what  you're talking about here.

You must be very young.

The Bell Curve came out around 1994.

https://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks-ebook/dp/B00BORWH4U

It was immediately attacked as racist, even though it presented factual data about IQ tests.

[I am Groot]

16 minutes ago, reason10 said:

You must be very young.

The Bell Curve came out around 1994.

https://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks-ebook/dp/B00BORWH4U

It was immediately attacked as racist, even though it presented factual data about IQ tests.

I know what the Bell curve is and about the book and its author. I just wasn't sure what connection you were doing with the police and media. 

It's certainly true the media doesn't want to hear anything which might suggest anything might be behind one group's lower performance than another besides racism. 

In the case of Blacks, though, from all I've seen it has nothing to do with race or intelligence and everything to do with culture and values.

[Rebound]

3 hours ago, reason10 said:

Had Floyd NOT taken the fentanyl, he would be alive. He would have been straight and probably would not have been stopped by Chauvin. His death was self inflicted.

 

What if he had died in an accident where he plowed into a school bus full of children? Would you blame the children?

Perhaps if Floyd had not taken fentanyl, Chauvin would not have stood on his neck for nine minutes. 

 

But you do not seem to understand a simple fact of law: At its broadest, American police officers only have the authority to use lethal force if it is necessary for the imminent protection of human life or serious physical injury, or when a dangerous suspect of a crime involving infliction of serious physical injury is attempting to flee. Deadly force is not permitted anywhere in the United States to enable the arrest of a non-violent, unarmed felon who is fleeing.

For example, we recently saw a video of a hammer-wielding suspect attacking an elderly man. Under the Constitution, police could have used deadly force once certain the hammer wielder was about to hit the elderly man with it, and certainly after he struck the man once. However, state and local laws may be more restrictive than the Constitutional permissions.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Rebound

[Deluge]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:37 AM, Aristides said:

Seems too many of your cops aren't capable of arresting an unarmed person without killing them.

Those cops weren't. that's for sure. 

[Aristides]

Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for eight minutes. He had no pulse when he finally removed it. That's homicide.

[Boges]

I seem to remember people freaking out about a woman getting trampled by a Horse while resisting police. 

Hypocrisy is strong. 

[herbie]

Maybe he died because he ate Special K for breakfast. Would've been more believable to this jerk than dying just because someone knelt on your neck for 9 minutes while you cried I can't breathe!

[reason10]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:37 AM, Aristides said:

Seems too many of your cops aren't capable of arresting an unarmed person without killing them.

Well, you've just called a bunch of liberals a LIAR. Your side of the aisle claims that the prisons are mostly black because blacks are mostly arrested, tried and found guilty of crimes. (leaving out the inconvenient fact that blacks commit most of the crimes.) So why is it that all these blacks wound up in prison and weren't KILLED at point of arrest?

Oh, and what does the "unarmed" deal have to do with it? Are you suggesting scumbags SHOULD be armed, so that if they didn't want to be arrested they could just shoot their way out of trouble?

[reason10]

28 minutes ago, herbie said:

Maybe he died because he ate Special K for breakfast. Would've been more believable to this jerk than dying just because someone knelt on your neck for 9 minutes while you cried I can't breathe!

That animal would be alive today had it not been for the Fentanyl.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minneapolis-police-training-materials-show-knee-to-neck-restraint-similar-to-used-on-george-floyd/89-9f002e3f-972a-4410-86cb-50a1237fc496

MINNEAPOLIS — In filing a motion to dismiss the charges he faces in the death of George Floyd, former Minneapolis police officer Thomas Lane included 30 pages of MPD training materials, including information on a restraint called the "maximal restraint technique," and a photo of an officer with his knee to a suspect's neck similar to the hold used by former officer Derek Chauvin on Floyd.

The training materials specify: "the maximal restraint technique shall only be used in situations where handcuffed subjects are combative and still pose a threat to themselves, officers or others, or could cause significant damage property if not properly restrained."

The slide that includes the photo states that officers should "Place the subject in the recovery position to alleviate positional asphyxia."

https://www.insider.com/minneapolis-police-trained-to-use-neck-restraint-george-floyd-2020-7

The Minneapolis Police Department trained its officers to use the neck restraint that led to George Floyd's killing, according to court documents

• The Minnesota Police Department included instructions on how to use a controversial neck restraint in its training manual, according to court documents, the same type of restraint that was used on George Floyd. 
• The court documents, obtained by The Daily Beast on Wednesday, were included in a motion to dismiss charges against Thomas Lane, one of the three police officers that didn't intervene while then-officer Derek Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes before his May 25 death. 
• In the Minneapolis Police Department training manual, obtained by The Daily Beast, the maneuver is explained in detail and is said to be used on suspects that are resisting arrest. 
• According to the motion filed Wednesday, Lane's lawyer said he was acting in accordance with the Minneapolis Police training manual at the time of Floyd's death.
• Chauvin has been charged with second-degree murder, while Lane and fellow former officers Tou Thao, Thomas Lane, and J. Alexander Kueng, were charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter.

Facts can be so inconvenient.

 

[reason10]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for eight minutes. He had no pulse when he finally removed it. That's homicide.

He didn't die on the spot. And if he had stopped resisting arrest, he'd be alive now.

That's SUICIDE.

[Rebound]

47 minutes ago, reason10 said:

That animal would be alive today had it not been for the Fentanyl.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minneapolis-police-training-materials-show-knee-to-neck-restraint-similar-to-used-on-george-floyd/89-9f002e3f-972a-4410-86cb-50a1237fc496

MINNEAPOLIS — In filing a motion to dismiss the charges he faces in the death of George Floyd, former Minneapolis police officer Thomas Lane included 30 pages of MPD training materials, including information on a restraint called the "maximal restraint technique," and a photo of an officer with his knee to a suspect's neck similar to the hold used by former officer Derek Chauvin on Floyd.

The training materials specify: "the maximal restraint technique shall only be used in situations where handcuffed subjects are combative and still pose a threat to themselves, officers or others, or could cause significant damage property if not properly restrained."

The slide that includes the photo states that officers should "Place the subject in the recovery position to alleviate positional asphyxia."

https://www.insider.com/minneapolis-police-trained-to-use-neck-restraint-george-floyd-2020-7

The Minneapolis Police Department trained its officers to use the neck restraint that led to George Floyd's killing, according to court documents

• The Minnesota Police Department included instructions on how to use a controversial neck restraint in its training manual, according to court documents, the same type of restraint that was used on George Floyd. 
• The court documents, obtained by The Daily Beast on Wednesday, were included in a motion to dismiss charges against Thomas Lane, one of the three police officers that didn't intervene while then-officer Derek Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes before his May 25 death. 
• In the Minneapolis Police Department training manual, obtained by The Daily Beast, the maneuver is explained in detail and is said to be used on suspects that are resisting arrest. 
• According to the motion filed Wednesday, Lane's lawyer said he was acting in accordance with the Minneapolis Police training manual at the time of Floyd's death.
• Chauvin has been charged with second-degree murder, while Lane and fellow former officers Tou Thao, Thomas Lane, and J. Alexander Kueng, were charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter.

Facts can be so inconvenient.

 

If you read those documents, they first state clearly that a neck restraint is an absolute last resort and that it often results in cardiac arrest. It describes the neck restraint as being applied to one or both SIDES of the neck, not the back. It also calls for protection of the trachea, and immediate application of CPR if needed.  None of that was done. It’s also not clear why the police hauled the handcuffed Floyd out of the police cruiser and placed him on the ground, where Floyd repeatedly stated that he could not breathe. IOW, it’s not clear at all why a man who passed a bogus $20 had lethal force applied.  

[reason10]

35 minutes ago, Rebound said:

If you read those documents, they first state clearly that a neck restraint is an absolute last resort and that it often results in cardiac arrest. It describes the neck restraint as being applied to one or both SIDES of the neck, not the back. It also calls for protection of the trachea, and immediate application of CPR if needed.  None of that was done. It’s also not clear why the police hauled the handcuffed Floyd out of the police cruiser and placed him on the ground, where Floyd repeatedly stated that he could not breathe. IOW, it’s not clear at all why a man who passed a bogus $20 had lethal force applied.  

Funny. Officer Chauvin SAID it was a last resort, that the animal in his car was continuing to go berserk and might damage something or maybe injure himself.

As far as lethal force being applied, that's a lie. Chauvin didn't shoot that animal. He didn't force that animal to take the Fentanyl that killed him. He didn't demand that animal resist arrest and go completely bat shit crazy.

He just applied a move that was taught to officers in that precinct.

[SpankyMcFarland]

9 hours ago, reason10 said:

Had Floyd NOT taken the fentanyl, he would be alive. He would have been straight and probably would not have been stopped by Chauvin. His death was self inflicted
 

I am merely addressing the cause and manner of death here. Floyd showed no clinical evidence of fentanyl toxicity in his final minutes of life. 

 

9 hours ago, reason10 said:

What if he had died in an accident where he plowed into a school bus full of children? Would you blame the children?

What on earth are you talking about? Perhaps you should read a little more of the evidence presented at trial before posting again. 

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

He didn't die on the spot. And if he had stopped resisting arrest, he'd be alive now.

That's SUICIDE.

He died because there was a knee on his neck for more than eight minutes. 

[reason10]

Perhaps if Floyd had not taken fentanyl, Chauvin would not have stood on his neck for nine minutes. 

Floyd's life choices put him in that situation.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-george-floyd-death-what-media-didnt-tell-you

Between 1997 and 2007, police in Texas arrested Floyd a total of nine times, on charges ranging from drug possession to theft. Then, on Aug. 9, 2007, George Floyd barged into a woman's home and held a gun to her abdomen in front of her toddler. It was a home invasion, and George Floyd got five years in prison for participating in it.

If he'd been in custody before, why was George Floyd on the verge of hysteria? The police officers wondered the same thing. "You’ve got foam around your mouth," one says. A bystander tells Floyd, "You’re gonna die of a heart attack."

"Are you on something right now?" one police officer asks.

"No," says George Floyd.

But that wasn’t close to true. According to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, George Floyd wasn't just high. He had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system, in addition to methamphetamine. The autopsy report showed that Floyd had 11 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter of blood in his system when he was tested at a hospital. That's more than three times the amount of fentanyl that can kill a healthy person.

Again, that’s not our judgment. That’s directly from the autopsy report, the one people didn’t see until after the riots.

It read, "Signs associated with fentanyl toxicity include severe respiratory depression, seizures, hypotension, coma and death. In fatalities from fentanyl, blood concentrations are variable and have been reported as low as 3 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter of blood."

Floyd was a criminal, an animal.

And Chauvin was convicted by a jury INTIMIDATED by the BLM animals rioting in the city.

Floyd did it to himself.

Nichols did it to himself. Yes, the officers were less than professional. But had Nichols not taken off running, he would be alive today.

[reason10]

On 1/30/2023 at 6:30 PM, Aristides said:

He died because there was a knee on his neck for more than eight minutes. 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-george-floyd-death-what-media-didnt-tell-you

According to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, George Floyd wasn't just high. He had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system, in addition to methamphetamine. The autopsy report showed that Floyd had 11 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter of blood in his system when he was tested at a hospital. That's more than three times the amount of fentanyl that can kill a healthy person.

Again, that’s not our judgment. That’s directly from the autopsy report, the one people didn’t see until after the riots.

It read, "Signs associated with fentanyl toxicity include severe respiratory depression, seizures, hypotension, coma and death. In fatalities from fentanyl, blood concentrations are variable and have been reported as low as 3 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter of blood."

No one is denying this. The Floyd family’s own lawyer admits that it’s true. It’s "true that the Hennepin County medical examiner's office autopsy showed that Floyd had fentanyl in his system," he conceded, but then he insisted that George Floyd was actually killed by racism.

[CrakHoBarbie]

2 minutes ago, reason10 said:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-george-floyd-death-what-media-didnt-tell-you

According to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, George Floyd wasn't just high. He had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system, in addition to methamphetamine. The autopsy report showed that Floyd had 11 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter of blood in his system when he was tested at a hospital. That's more than three times the amount of fentanyl that can kill a healthy person.

Again, that’s not our judgment. That’s directly from the autopsy report, the one people didn’t see until after the riots.

It read, "Signs associated with fentanyl toxicity include severe respiratory depression, seizures, hypotension, coma and death. In fatalities from fentanyl, blood concentrations are variable and have been reported as low as 3 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter of blood."

No one is denying this. The Floyd family’s own lawyer admits that it’s true. It’s "true that the Hennepin County medical examiner's office autopsy showed that Floyd had fentanyl in his system," he conceded, but then he insisted that George Floyd was actually killed by racism.

How unfortunate then, for that cop to of kneeled on George's neck at the exact same time he was dying of a fentanyl overdose. I guess that cop will think twice next time...... Oh wait.....

[reason10]

4 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

How unfortunate then, for that cop to of kneeled on George's neck at the exact same time he was dying of a fentanyl overdose. I guess that cop will think twice next time...... Oh wait.....

From the article:

Nor did anyone in the press think to report what happened before Derek Chauvin put his knee on George Floyd's neck. Authorities in Minnesota made certain no one saw the body camera footage that showed it. Body cameras exist so that we can know what happened, but they hid this footage. We only saw it because The Daily Mail, which is based in Great Britain and therefore slightly less terrified and dishonest than our media, got a copy.

The video showed officers working for about 20 minutes trying to detain a man who they believed had just committed the crime of passing a fake $20 bill, a man who clearly had lost all sense of reality. The footage showed George Floyd begging officers to stay with him. He was clearly suffering. The tape is wrenching, it really is. By the end, you’re filled with sympathy for George Floyd. But it’s not the picture of a murder.

If he'd been in custody before, why was George Floyd on the verge of hysteria? The police officers wondered the same thing. "You’ve got foam around your mouth," one says. A bystander tells Floyd, "You’re gonna die of a heart attack.""Are you on something right now?" one police officer asks. "No," says George Floyd.

So he lied to police. And because police aren't trained EMTs, perhaps they just saw someone high on something, freaking out and looking to cause more damage. What if Floyd had broken free and killed someone? His drugged state would be considered a mitigating factor and he'd likely walk on a murder rap.

But I gotta ask you. Did THESE innocent store owners deserve this, just because a cop accidentally killed an animal?

[CrakHoBarbie]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

 "You’ve got foam around your mouth," one says. A bystander tells Floyd, "You’re gonna die of a heart attack.""Are you on something right now?" one police officer asks. "No," says George Floyd.

 

So the cop, already suspecting George might be unwell, decided to put his knee on George's neck for ten minutes. Yeah.... That makes sense.

You are so good at critical thinking reason10..... It's almost unbelievable.

[Moonbox]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:16 AM, I am Groot said:

Similar things have happened to white men and been largely ignored. Compare the reaction of the media to the video death of George Floyd vs the utter nothing about the identical police killings of Tony Timpa or Edward Bronstein. The news media are laser focused on things they can call racist, even where there's no evidence of racist. Basically anywhere a black person is victimized or can be portrayed as being victimized by white people.

It's hard to argue that there wasn't much attention paid to Ed Bronstein's death.  I still don't know much of anything about that, other than that this news died out early last year and I've heard nothing since.  

On 1/30/2023 at 10:16 AM, I am Groot said:

The reverse is ignored as much as possible for fear of causing anti-Black racism.

I think you'll find the number of white cops killing black men outnumbers Black cops killing white men by a pretty stupendous number.  

On 1/30/2023 at 10:16 AM, I am Groot said:

Which is one of the reasons the media NEVER mentions the vastly disproportionate amount of crime being committed by black people. It will talk about how they're pulled over more, searched more, subjected to police violence more, but always in the context of how unfair this is. They never mention just how much crime, particularly violent the Black community is responsible for. Canada's media behaves in an identical fashion, btw.

They don't need to talk about it.  It's not news.  Everyone already knows it.  

There are reasons that more crime is committed by black people, and this has been the focus of a lot of attention and effort.  Trying to fix the underlying causes of the problem, (I hope) you'd generally more effective than treating the symptoms or outcomes.  

What's problematic here more than anything is that you're taking the media attention about a black dude getting brutally beaten to death by black cops and rather than discussing that, you're talking about how much crime black people commit as if that's the most important thing to take out of this.  

[Rebound]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:16 AM, I am Groot said:

The media NEVER mentions the vastly disproportionate amount of crime being committed by black people. It will talk about how they're pulled over more, searched more, subjected to police violence more, but always in the context of how unfair this is. They never mention just how much crime, particularly violent the Black community is responsible for. Canada's media behaves in an identical fashion, btw.

 

Do you think that having more skin pigment gives a person a biological reason to wake up and commit a crime?

Let’s say, for sake of argument, that we agree that, yes, black people are pulled over, arrested and convicted at disproportionate rates, and they are falsely convicted at disproportionate rates, and they are more impoverished, on average.  
 

BUT!!! Let’s say, for sake of argument, that once we control for all of those effects, the persistent fact remains that black people nonetheless commit crime at a higher rate. 
 

Question is: What do we do about that? Should we blame people for being black? Should we tell black people that they posses a “crime gene”? Because in my life experience, if you keep telling someone that there’s something wrong with them, they’ll usually believe it.  So if we call black people criminals, we won’t solve our problems. 
 

The solution is more complex.  We know that incarceration is the most expensive solution. It’s extremely expensive. And telling people their skin color means they’re a criminal is untrue and, if anything, it’s self-fulfilling.  

[reason10]

2 hours ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

So the cop, already suspecting George might be unwell, decided to put his knee on George's neck for ten minutes. Yeah.... That makes sense.

You are so good at critical thinking reason10..... It's almost unbelievable.

Actually, Chauvin wasn't the only cop there. And Floyd was going batshit berserk.

A friend of mine up around Tampa was a deputy sheriff for a pretty long time.  The thing that caused him to quit the force and choose another line of work was an incident he had with some PCP maniac. He took a call and the animal came at him. He wound up emptying his service revolver into the man's chest and the man kept coming. He finally was able to put the animal down by beating him with the pistol. The gun had more stopping power against a druggie as a club than it did as an actual firearm.

The Colt 45 auto was invented around the turn of the 20th Century (legend has it) because a US Army soldier was defending himself against some Maori tribesman who was high on some local concoction and the same thing happened. Emptied the 38 in the guy's chest and had to use the barrel as a club to stop him.

Probably Floyd's session of batshit crazy was one of the reasons why Chauvin did the neck press. to calm that animal down.

Gee! Floyd would be alive if he hadn't consumed a lethal dose of Fentanyl.