Friendshoring...it's about time.

[eyeball]

What Freeland proposes has been called “friendshoring,” an approach that secures supply chains for critical resources among and between democracies.

The West has enriched the world’s police states, which now outnumber democracies

It's about time this is being recognized. I'm definitely impressed with this turn of the worm at such a high level of our government.  This seemingly departs not just from Trudeau's thinking, but from decades of global trade orthodoxy.

[eyeball]

“And so, nearly eight months after the invasion of Ukraine, we find ourselves in a world where bloody history is back,” Freeland said, “and where muscular dictatorships show little sign of mellowing into liberal democracies — and yet also where, in conscious contrast with the age of the Iron Curtain, we have spent three decades building an interconnected global economy.”

And that’s why we’re in this mess.

You go girl!

[Michael Hardner]

Well it's the NP so they're a little florid in their facts.... the number of non-democracies NOW outnumber... yeah sure but socialization is easier when you have something to negotiate with.  

That said, Stephen Harper and others have come around to say that these countries won't accept liberalism and we should adjust accordingly.  Let's see how this all works out.

I will say this: nobody - especially not on here - should be repeating talking points from any politician on this matter as they are self serving.  You should use the rather bland but rigorous statements from economics institutes (academic ones), trade study groups and human rights groups.  Period.

[Moonbox]

I'm not sure what part of the argument you're actually contesting Michael.  We don't really need any more indication of the wisdom behind the theory than by just looking at Russia and the EU, or China and Japan with rare Earths, or Saudi Arabia and OPEC.  

The benefits of western capitalism and free market liberalism are many, but it comes with a short-sightedness that can end up costing us a lot.   

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I will say this: nobody - especially not on here - should be repeating talking points from any politician on this matter as they are self serving.  You should use the rather bland but rigorous statements from economics institutes (academic ones), trade study groups and human rights groups.  Period.

I'm not sure what part of the argument you're actually contesting Michael.  We don't really need any more indication of the wisdom behind the theory than by just looking at Russia and the EU, or China and Japan with rare earths, or Saudi Arabia and OPEC.  

The benefits of western capitalism and free market liberalism are many, but they come with a short-sightedness that can end up costing us a lot.  I imagine you can agree that making yourself reliant on bad actors for strategic resources is not  wise.  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I will say this: nobody - especially not on here - should be repeating talking points from any politician on this matter as they are self serving.

I didn't think it would take long for the sense Freeland's comments were self serving. I almost started the thread off on that basis. In any case her comments have certainly resonated with my own sense that wheeling and dealing with dictators is probably the most dangerously least productive thing we could be doing to make the world a better place.

[West]

Trudeau et al are the sole reason for supply chain disasters. What makes anyone confident they either can or want to "fix" the issue?

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I'm not sure what part of the argument you're actually contesting Michael.  We don't really need any more indication of the wisdom behind the theory than by just looking at Russia and the EU, or China and Japan with rare earths, or Saudi Arabia and OPEC.  

The benefits of western capitalism and free market liberalism are many, but they come with a short-sightedness that can end up costing us a lot.  I imagine you can agree that making yourself reliant on bad actors for strategic resources is not  wise.  

I think my post aligns with this no?

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I'm not sure what part of the argument you're actually contesting Michael.  We don't really need any more indication of the wisdom behind the theory than by just looking at Russia and the EU, or China and Japan with rare earths, or Saudi Arabia and OPEC.  

The benefits of western capitalism and free market liberalism are many, but they come with a short-sightedness that can end up costing us a lot.  I imagine you can agree that making yourself reliant on bad actors for strategic resources is not  wise.  

This is not something new, this goes back decades  i mean the pandemic made this crystal clear to everyone, are we not smart enough to catch it then, or where consumers so hooked on cheaper goods. when we were importing oil form Arab countries, becasue we were not smart enough to build infra structure to span the country. shit we were not even smart enough to build refiners to refine our own bitumen instead shipped it to the states at record low prices and then purchased it back at full price when it was refined. it is like we designed our own down fall. or we are just not that smart.

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, West said:

Trudeau et al are the sole reason for supply chain disasters. What makes anyone confident they either can or want to "fix" the issue?

Why don't you explain this assertion, West?  Tell us how the bad man Trudeau caused all of the global supply chain disasters.  ?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Moonbox

[West]

4 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Why don't you explain this assertion, West?  Tell us how the bad man Trudeau caused all of the global supply chain disasters.  ?

As we just learned movement of goods dropped 10% because of Trudeau's spiteful border mandates. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by West

[Moonbox]

3 hours ago, West said:

As we just learned movement of goods dropped 10% because of Trudeau's spiteful border mandates. 

Is that what we learned?  

Trudeau, I suppose, was also responsible for China's zero-COVID policy and all of their factory shutdowns, right?  He's why container ships were waiting days outside of major pacific ports, and why global oil prices have skyrocketed.  Trudeau et al are the sole reason.... ??

[myata]

Principles (remembering; understanding; and following them) pay in the longer term; a price cut from a dictator, NOW. Guess what we chose? No, the number of repetitions is not the problem - now patented and certified.

[Infidel Dog]

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

What Freeland proposes has been called “friendshoring,” an approach that secures supply chains for critical resources among and between democracies.

The West has enriched the world’s police states, which now outnumber democracies

It's about time this is being recognized. I'm definitely impressed with this turn of the worm at such a high level of our government.  This seemingly departs not just from Trudeau's thinking, but from decades of global trade orthodoxy.

 

For those of us who have thought for some time that something needs to be done, it does appear that, that would at least be "something."

Somehow though...I'd expect this current crew of Progressive Socialists to screw it up. Wait for the populist right to take over would be my advice.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

For those of us who have thought for some time that something needs to be done, it does appear that, that would at least be "something."

Somehow though...I'd expect this current crew of Progressive Socialists to screw it up. Wait for the populist right to take over would be my advice.

Do you mean "pretend Progressive Socialists" or actual Socialists ?  Do you mean the Liberal-Conservative axis in Canada that pursues trade above all, openly trades with tyrants and mouths wonderful words to its people ?  And if you expect Poilievre, or whoever comes after, to meaningfully change those relationships then you love politicians more than I suspected.  

We have the ability to be independent of party garbage-speak on here so let's do that.

[Infidel Dog]

Well, if you want to use my term "Progressive Socialists," I suppose you should know what it means.

I feel qualified to offer the definition because the first person I ever heard use the term was me. I should trademark it.

I'd heard the term Prog-Comm before. I liked that one but it didn't really capture the nuance so I came up with Progressive Socialist.

It refers to the fact that the only "Progress" I see from the progressive movement is progress leftward. The ultimate destination being Socialism.

Presently I consider Trudeau and his toadies to be Progressive Socialists. I can call him or anybody else one anytime I want because it's my term. I invented it. Others have been using it lately though and I'm fine with that as long as they don't mess with the definition.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Michael Hardner]

55 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

1. Well, if you want to use my term "Progressive Socialists," I suppose you should know what it means. I feel qualified to offer the definition because the first person I ever heard use the term was me. I should trademark it. I'd heard the term Prog-Comm before. I liked that one but it didn't really capture the nuance so I came up with Progressive Socialist.

2. It refers to the fact that the only "Progress" I see from the progressive movement is progress leftward. The ultimate destination being Socialism.

3. Presently I consider Trudeau and his toadies to be Progressive Socialists. I can call him or anybody else one anytime I want because it's my term. I invented it. Others have been using it lately though and I'm fine with that as long as they don't mess with the definition.

1. Well good for you.
2. Well ... 'left' could mean any number of things, as could "socialism" but very little to dispute with what you have said so far.
3. I guess so.  You can define "Hedgehog" to mean "Someone with nice hair" and then call Trudeau a hedgehog if you want.  Congrats on the term, since you posted here it appears over 850,000 times on the web... including a party called the "Progressive Socialist Party"  All good.

Back to my points, which you didn't seem to have a problem with:

 

Quote

Do you mean the Liberal-Conservative axis in Canada that pursues trade above all, openly trades with tyrants and mouths wonderful words to its people ?  And if you expect Poilievre, or whoever comes after, to meaningfully change those relationships then you love politicians more than I suspected.  

Liberals and Conservatives are not largely different in how they deal with international trade and the moral question.  

Do you expect Poilievre to stop trading with bad people ?  If not, what change do you realistically expect from him ?
 

[Infidel Dog]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Congrats on the term, since you posted here it appears over 850,000 times on the web... including a party called the "Progressive Socialist Party"  All good.

Made ya look. 

[Infidel Dog]

Quote

Back to my points, which you didn't seem to have a problem with:

 

Liberals and Conservatives are not largely different in how they deal with international trade and the moral question.  

Do you expect Poilievre to stop trading with bad people ?  If not, what change do you realistically expect from him ?

When I talk about the current crew of Progressive Socialists and their ability to screw things up I include the crew up until now of Progressive Conservatives.

I'm hoping the new guy will be smarter on China, at least. If I have to learn a new language I don't want it to be Chinese. Pierre's playing it pretty close to the vest on how he'll deal with China though, so I just don't know.

I know he doesn't seem to have any reservations about continuing the war in the Ukraine and that's a bit of a bother. Not very Canada First.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Michael Hardner]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:34 AM, myata said:

Principles (remembering; understanding; and following them) pay in the longer term; a price cut from a dictator, NOW. Guess what we chose? No, the number of repetitions is not the problem - now patented and certified.

So Stockwell Day, Erin O'Toole, Stephen Harper... Ok.

[WestCanMan]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:22 PM, eyeball said:

The West has enriched the world’s police states, which now outnumber democracies

What category does Canada fit into? The US? 

We may as well just drop the false pretences and trade directly with the Taliban and Assad.  

[WestCanMan]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:07 PM, Infidel Dog said:

I'm hoping the new guy will be smarter on China, at least. If I have to learn a new language I don't want it to be Chinese. Pierre's playing it pretty close to the vest on how he'll deal with China though, so I just don't know.

If he comes out anti-China right now it will put LPOC fundraising through the roof. 

[ExFlyer]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:34 AM, myata said:

Principles (remembering; understanding; and following them) pay in the longer term; a price cut from a dictator, NOW. Guess what we chose? No, the number of repetitions is not the problem - now patented and certified.

Are you off meds again??? LOL