The Path to Poilievre's Landslide Majority

[West]

1 hour ago, Jack9000 said:

well he did basically call  natives  lazy  years and years back soo i mean 🤣 he may not be  racist but saying things like that  in public isnt a good look.

And Trudeau groped women and wore blackface multiple times yet he's still your hero

[Jack9000]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Only vaguely heard about that ... You mean THIS ?

 

In 2008, for example, he had to apologize for saying Canada’s aboriginals need to learn the value of hard work more than they need compensation for abuse suffered in residential schools.Poilievre made the comments during a radio interview, just hours before then prime minister Stephen Harper apologized for the abuse aboriginal children endured in those schools.“Now along with this apology comes another $4 billion in compensation for those who partook in the residential schools,” said Poilievre — the clip then circulated by the Liberals who, bien sur, called for his resignation.

 yes i meant that

[Jack9000]

41 minutes ago, West said:

And Trudeau groped women and wore blackface multiple times yet he's still your hero

iIsaid multiple times hes not perfect lol..Far from my hero considering I didn't vote for him in 2021    2019 i only voted for him cause scheer  was  harper 2.0 with a smile.  you guys had the leader in otoole to win the next election  on his 2nd try..  but the party stabbed him in the back to appoint trumpism style leader in canada lol..  still yet to see concrete proof about the gropeing woman but okay... as for blackface it was a  costume.. big deal lmao.. what pierre said was far worse.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Jack9000

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well... kind of.  I am more and more reluctant to try to crack open the zeitgeist to figure out what "we" want every few years.  After all they had Harper and turfed him for JT so.... 

I would prefer if people developed principles around governance that established a "public" persona.  It would be far better than just getting sick of someone's face every few years.  What we have now is an advertising/product model which means that our focus of change flips between areas of focus in a disjointed way.

We go from "pragmatic" to "unrestrained" in areas of social change, economics, environmental approach which isn't a good way to maintain policies that have to last decades.  

I don't really know what the solution is though.  Even I grew tired of Harper at the end, and I was a strong supporter for most of his time in office.  There was a point when it became clear his pragmatism was actually just cynicism and when he tried to up the TFSA contribution limits to $10,000/year, it was clear he wasn't governing for "working families" anymore.  
 

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

A bit of wisdom and true "public" thought leaders would do well for us.  We are Canadian, so we are pragmatic, and accepting, as well as more focused on government solutions.  These things should be resolved into a mushy middle ground, not jerked back and forth IMO.

I think that political literacy in Canada has probably never been lower and it's only getting worse.  It's all part of a broader culture problem though, tied-in to outrage politics and the battle over wokeism etc.  I'm consider myself a mostly social progressive but the culture of "offense" that has taken root everywhere doesn't strike me as pragmatism.  The response for "This offends me" should usually be some combination of "So what?" and "Sorry you feel that way".  There absolutely is a time and place for outrage and consequences for words, but the West is entirely unique in how much time and energy their politics spend managing people's hurt feelings.  

This sort of anti-pragmatism has had predictable results as well, motivating and to an extent validating the loudest and angriest against among the "deplorables".  Guys like Alex Jones became popular in this environment.  

Edited September 13, 2022 by Moonbox

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

1. I don't really know what the solution is though. 

2. Even I grew tired of Harper at the end, and I was a strong supporter for most of his time in office.  There was a point when it became clear his pragmatism was actually just cynicism and when he tried to up the TFSA contribution limits to $10,000/year, it was clear he wasn't governing for "working families" anymore.  

3. I think that political literacy in Canada has probably never been lower and it's only getting worse.  It's all part of a broader culture problem though, tied-in to outrage politics and the battle over wokeism etc.  I'm consider myself a mostly social progressive but the culture of "offense" that has taken root everywhere doesn't strike me as pragmatism. 

4. ... the West is entirely unique in how much time and energy their politics spend managing people's hurt feelings.  

5. This sort of anti-pragmatism has had predictable results as well, motivating and to an extent validating the loudest and angriest against among the "deplorables".  Guys like Alex Jones became popular in this environment.  

1. It comes from the people.  Basically nobody is happy with how things work anymore.  The machine of government isn't tuned to our current times.  There is a lack of enthusiasm which is palpable.

2. Do you consider yourself conservative, as I do ?

3.  Your opinion is grim but well articulated.  Thank you.

4.  That's a refreshing take.  In my day people would make comments about you to your face, whisper behind your back if you violated group norms.  That could mean talking in church, driving badly or flirting... but I came from a small town.

5.  Assholery (or not) should not be in the domain of politics to deal with.  Left of centres have to confront that there are people out there very different from their friends.  The deplorables have already known that, and been ruled by those very different from their friends.  I have friends who are very conservative, and they are very unhappy with the deplorables hijacking conservatism.  

[Moonbox]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It comes from the people.  Basically nobody is happy with how things work anymore.  The machine of government isn't tuned to our current times.  There is a lack of enthusiasm which is palpable.

It's devolving to tribalism, and we're only a few steps behind the Americans on that.  

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Do you consider yourself conservative, as I do ?

I always have. I've considered myself very fiscally conservative, but not so much on social issues.  My voting history has been heavily skewed towards conservatives (60-70 % for Federal and 100% provincially).  I just don't identify with the conspiracy circus and their antics turn me away (like they did in the last election).  

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

4.  That's a refreshing take.  In my day people would make comments about you to your face, whisper behind your back if you violated group norms.  That could mean talking in church, driving badly or flirting... but I came from a small town.

and nobody would go to your town hall meetings to demand someone lose their job if they said something ignorant about women or whatever.  They'd just note you as an ignorant ass and move on, and/or talk about you behind your back.    

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

5.  Assholery (or not) should not be in the domain of politics to deal with.  Left of centres have to confront that there are people out there very different from their friends.  The deplorables have already known that, and been ruled by those very different from their friends.  I have friends who are very conservative, and they are very unhappy with the deplorables hijacking conservatism.  

Certainly, but politics is too often observing which way the wind is blowing and jumping in front of the crowd to "lead" them where they were already going.  It always amazed me that liberals or whatever you want to call them couldn't understand how Trump got elected, when I would argue they were indirectly responsible for getting him there in the first place (or at least someone like him).  If you don't govern from the centre and for the centre, and if you continue to refuse any compromise, the backlash will be fierce and swift.  

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

1. It's devolving to tribalism, and we're only a few steps behind the Americans on that.  

2. I always have. I've considered myself very fiscally conservative, but not so much on social issues.  My voting history has been heavily skewed towards conservatives (60-70 % for Federal and 100% provincially).  I just don't identify with the conspiracy circus and their antics turn me away (like they did in the last election).  

3. nobody would go to your town hall meetings to demand someone lose their job if they said something ignorant about women or whatever.  They'd just note you as an ignorant ass and move on, and/or talk about you behind your back.    

4. Certainly, but politics is too often observing which way the wind is blowing and jumping in front of the crowd to "lead" them where they were already going. 

5. It always amazed me that liberals or whatever you want to call them couldn't understand how Trump got elected, when I would argue they were indirectly responsible for getting him there in the first place (or at least someone like him).  If you don't govern from the centre and for the centre, and if you continue to refuse any compromise, the backlash will be fierce and swift.  

1. It has come back from that before. 
2. Do you support Poilievre then ?
3. People haven't adjusted social media back to basic human spheres of privacy and public life, even on a personal level.
Not yet.
4. Like the Liberals boldly approving Gay Marriage just as it crossed the threshold of 51% support in Canada
5. They live in bubbles, all of them do.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Jack9000 said:

well it won't be thru atlantic canada i'll make sure i do everything possible to stop that 🤣

I'm thinking that is all wishful thinking, your talking way out of your league, even Irving's don't have that kind of power or will...

[Jack9000]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It comes from the people.  Basically nobody is happy with how things work anymore.  The machine of government isn't tuned to our current times.  There is a lack of enthusiasm which is palpable.

2. Do you consider yourself conservative, as I do ?

3.  Your opinion is grim but well articulated.  Thank you.

4.  That's a refreshing take.  In my day people would make comments about you to your face, whisper behind your back if you violated group norms.  That could mean talking in church, driving badly or flirting... but I came from a small town.

5.  Assholery (or not) should not be in the domain of politics to deal with.  Left of centres have to confront that there are people out there very different from their friends.  The deplorables have already known that, and been ruled by those very different from their friends.  I have friends who are very conservative, and they are very unhappy with the deplorables hijacking conservatism.  

were you a fan of the harper years since consider yourself a conservative?

[Jack9000]

11 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I'm thinking that is all wishful thinking, your talking way out of your league, even Irving's don't have that kind of power or will...

well I don't see him winning the  majority of seats in atlantic canada anyway.. its the GTA he needs. as for quebec  not so sure.. he wants more pipelines and getting a pipeline thru quebec goodluck with that...

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, Jack9000 said:

were you a fan of the harper years since consider yourself a conservative?

He's a conservative, but he prefers liberal politicians and their policies.

[Jack9000]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

He's a conservative, but he prefers liberal politicians and their policies.

you can be a conservative and not be a fan of poilievre  or harper/scheer... conservatives like  otoole,mulrooney joe clark were much more moderate conservatives...  Harper /scheer/poilieve are reformist not even true conservatives tbh.

[WestCanMan]

16 minutes ago, Jack9000 said:

you can be a conservative and not be a fan of poilievre  or harper/scheer... conservatives like  otoole,mulrooney joe clark were much more moderate conservatives...  Harper /scheer/poilieve are reformist not even true conservatives tbh.

Sure, but you can't be a conservative and be a Trudeau superfanboy. 

[Jack9000]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Sure, but you can't be a conservative and be a Trudeau superfanboy. 

he's not a  trudeau superfanboy dude.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Jack9000 said:

were you a fan of the harper years since consider yourself a conservative?

I really enjoyed those years.

[Jack9000]

31 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I really enjoyed those years.

i hated those years haha. Harper worse Pm in my lifetime  but different opinions are allowed

[Goddess]

14 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Freedom Convoy was full of people of colour.  The attempt to paint that movement as racist is the most disgusting attempt to discredit the views of Canadians by a Prime Minister that I’ve ever seen.  Shame.  

Indeed.

One of the highlights for many was the rarely seen Canadian hockey stick bhangra.

 

[Moonbox]

20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It has come back from that before. 

Certainly.  We'll see how things go.  

20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Do you support Poilievre then ?

Nope, but then I don't support Trudeau either.  I think the next election is going to come down to who's going to do the most harm.  Trudeau will torpedo public finances for a generation just like his father did, and we'll have to wait and see if PP's bullshit during his leadership bid was just to placate the rabid base.  

20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. Like the Liberals boldly approving Gay Marriage just as it crossed the threshold of 51% support in Canada

Yeah I guess. I didn't really know what the background was for that.  I was in university at the time and didn't really understand what the big deal was.  

20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

5. They live in bubbles, all of them do.

Both sides, certainly.  It's scary.