Yzermandius19 Posted September 3, 2022 Report Share Posted September 3, 2022 34 minutes ago, Aristides said: There has to be a record of doing it dumbass. If you were a working in a security agency would you just release a secret document to the public on someones verbal say with no record of you being instructed to do so? What kind of idiot would do something that stupid? does not have to be recorded it's at the President's discretion he's in charge of them not the other way around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 3, 2022 Report Share Posted September 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: does not have to be recorded it's at the President's discretion he's in charge of them not the other way around Would you trust Stubby McBonespurs not to throw you under the bus by denying he declassified something after he told you to do it, if it was to his advantage to do so? Even you couldn't be that badly under his spell. Presidents don't just declassify stuff on a whim, why would they if it could only come back to bite them. Most are declassified at the request of departments, either because they are no longer sensitive or they need to show them to someone with a lower security clearance, such as a expert in a certain field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 Quote On political corruption, we are going to restore honour to our government. In my administration, I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law. Donald Trump, August 2016. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted September 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 The pedophile protectors at the fbi went rustling through barons underwear drawer. Sick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 13 hours ago, Aristides said: Presidents don't just declassify stuff on a whim yes they do they do it all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 16 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Cite. Cite? You said there is no evidence, but the FBI did in fact obtain government property as a result of conducting a lawful search. In fact, they obtained evidence of a crime from the material which was voluntarily returned as well, but it did not seem they were included to prosecute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: yes they do they do it all the time And you know that how? There is a reason something was made classified, there has to be a reason to declassify it. I’ll ask again. If there is no record of something being declassified, how is anyone to know it was declassified and would you risk going to jail by just assuming it was and releasing it? Edited September 4, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Aristides said: And you know that how? There is a reason something was made classified, there has to be a reason to declassify it. I’ll ask again. If there is no record of something being declassified, how is anyone to know it was declassified and would you risk going to jail by just assuming it was and releasing it? And if it is declassified, why hasn’t it been released to the public? Federal Law does not mention the term “classified information.” Whether the Government classifies information or not is not relevant as to whether the Espionage Act or the Presidential Records Act has been violated. Edited September 4, 2022 by Rebound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Aristides said: And you know that how? There is a reason something was made classified, there has to be a reason to declassify it. that reason is up to the President no one has the authority to tell the President they can't declassify Edited September 4, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: that reason is up to the President no one has the authority to tell the President he can't declassify And yet, golly darn, you can’t find that law for us, can you? Lemme mansplain this to you: When somebody violates a law, they get arrested and charged (Executive Branch). Then they go to trial. At trial, the Prosecution (Executive Branch) convinces the Judge (Judicial Branch) or jury (the People) WHETHER A LAW WAS BROKEN (Legislative Branch). THE PRESIDENT DOES NOT MAKE LAWS. And there is no law that says “stealing classified information is illegal” or “the President decides whether information is classified or not.” You don’t understand the law. You clearly have not read it. You’re just listening to the lies that conservative media is pushing on you. Don’t be their puppet. Read the law for yourself. Here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-37 ”Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.” Edited September 4, 2022 by Rebound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: that reason is up to the President no one has the authority to tell the President he can't declassify I never said he doesn’t have the authority but there has to be a record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Aristides said: I never said he doesn’t have the authority but there has to be a record. no there doesn't and the markings on the files don't have to be changed before they are declassified a file still being marked classified doesn't mean it still is Trump had the power to declassify every file he took with him assuming he didn't without proof, will not fly in a court of law you just assume he didn't do that, because you want this to be the smoking gun that puts an end to the Bad Orange Man wishful thinking is a helluva drug Edited September 4, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: no there doesn't and the markings on the files don't have to be changed before they are declassified a file still being marked classified doesn't mean it still is Trump had the power to declassify every file he took with him assuming he didn't without proof, will not fly in a court of law you just assume he didn't do that, because you want this to be the smoking gun that puts an end to the Bad Orange Man wishful thinking is a helluva drug So if Trump dropped dead tomorrow, someone could release a classified document on their own a few months from now and just claim Trump told them to do it when he was still in office. When challenged they could just say, prove he didn't. The assertion that there needs to be no record of declassification is one of the dumber things the Trump cult has pulled out of their excuse bag. Edited September 4, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) BTW. What happened to the contents of the 48 empty folders marked classified and all the empty folders marked, Return to Staff Secretary/Military Aid"? Edited September 4, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, Aristides said: So if Trump dropped dead tomorrow, someone could release a classified document on their own a few months from now and just claim Trump told them to do it when he was still in office. When challenged they could just say, prove he didn't. no they can't do that they don't have the powers of declassification that a President has they need proof of declassification, the POTUS doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: no they can't do that they don't have the powers of declassification that a President has they need proof of declassification, the POTUS doesn't You maintain there can be no record of a president declassifying a document, so what is to stop someone from just claiming a dead president did when he was still alive with no proof that he ever did? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 9 minutes ago, Aristides said: You maintain there can be no record of a president declassifying a document, so what is to stop someone from just claiming a dead president did when he was still alive with no proof that he ever did? they would need proof that's what would stop them they don't have presidential powers only a POTUS does a POTUS doesn't need proof of declassification to declassify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 On 9/2/2022 at 11:53 AM, Rebound said: President Biden is not a disgrace. His detractors are. Biden is pretty low in the polls now and deservedly so with his dismal record to date. So do you believe that all the people that currently have a low opinion of Biden are a disgrace? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ironstone said: Biden is pretty low in the polls now and deservedly so with his dismal record to date. So do you believe that all the people that currently have a low opinion of Biden are a disgrace? Donald Trump never had public approval of 50% or more and he was often in the 30’s. No surprise he lost re-election. Biden’s numbers have been steadily improving for the past eight weeks. But approval ratings have nothing to do with whether Donald Trump should be charged with a crime, just as any other US citizen. Edited September 4, 2022 by Rebound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: they would need proof that's what would stop them they don't have presidential powers only a POTUS does a POTUS doesn't need proof of declassification to declassify So there would have to be a paper trail otherwise anyone could claim a president declassified a document. A dead president has no powers, nor could they confirm or deny they declassified something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rebound said: Donald Trump never had public approval of 50% or more and he was often in the 30’s. No surprise he lost re-election. Biden’s numbers have been steadily improving for the past eight weeks. But approval ratings have nothing to do with whether Donald Trump should be charged with a crime, just as any other US citizen. Delete. Don’t know how this got here… Edited September 4, 2022 by Rebound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Aristides said: So there would have to be a paper trail otherwise anyone could claim a president declassified a document. A dead president has no powers, nor could they confirm or deny they declassified something. an alive one can though so the burden of proof is on others to prove Trump didn't declassify not on Trump to prove he did declassify and that proof would be very hard to find, even if he didn't declassify when he easily could have so I wouldn't get your hopes up about this being the end of Trump Edited September 4, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 38 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: an alive one can though so the burden of proof is on others to prove Trump didn't declassify not on Trump to prove he did declassify and that proof would be very hard to find, even if he didn't declassify when he easily could have so I wouldn't get your hopes up about this being the end of Trump Without a paper trail, how can anyone prove a document has been declassified? The president who claims he declassified them can't even prove it, let alone anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Aristides said: Without a paper trail, how can anyone prove a document has been declassified? The president who claims he declassified them can't even prove it, let alone anyone else. disclassification was up to him until he left office with or without a paper trail if they can't prove he didn't declassify they have no case lack of a paper trail isn't sufficient Edited September 4, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: disclassification was up to him until he left office with or without a paper trail if they can't prove he didn't declassify they have no case lack of a paper trail isn't sufficient Declassification was up to him and there has to be a paper trail for it to be released to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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