Are we being gaslighted by the leftists?

[West]

At this point you must be pretty narcissistic to be a leftist. These folk have no souls left. 

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ridiculous arguments on the other side:

Should I have to insert something into my body to make you safer?

What's the difference between a government vaccine mandate and Justin Trudeau raping me?  In both cases the government is putting an instrument into my body and secreting fluid inside my body that i don't want.

When do we have rights of body autonomy and when do we not?

[Moonlight Graham]

People who support both abortion rights and vaccine mandates are selfish narcissistic hypocrites.  They do not care about the rights of body autonomy which is a lie they claim to support, they only care about their own self-interests and don't care about the interests or rights of others these policies may harm.

For some reason they care about a million people dying of COVID in the US over the last 2 years but don't care about the 1 million babies that are aborted in the US every year.  They care about their own or their partner's body autonomy rights but not the rights of people who don't wish to be vaccinated. They are hypocrites and tyrants.

The only reason they care about abortion rights is because it's in their self-interests to not have babies if they or their partner get pregnant, and it's in their interests to force others to be vaccinated if they themselves are already vaccinated.  There is no consistency in ethics here whatsoever because it's not about ethics, its about power and self-interest.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Bet every single one of you anti-vax are ok with laws dictating what people of faith can wear. 

Not just anti vaxers, but most political parties for fear of losing votes in an election...and to be honest nobody has really forced or made it a issue that has made any traction...But on the other side of the coin i did not see massive protests by any Canadian taking this issue seriously. We are all guilty of this one...

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

The thing is the right hasn't really been that much better. They don't want people to be able to decide themselves on things like abortion, hormone medications for transgenders, marijuana, etc.

Only lately has the left become more authoritarian and terrifying. I can't back the Libs or NDP as they have gone off the woke deep end. However, can I really back the CPC when god knows what the religious whacko wing of the party will try to pass to make my life harder?

Right now the PPC is probably the best choice which is a bit scary too

I'm not a big fan for yesterdays Conservatives, and to be honest was a fan of mad max until he went off the deep end. But if these are your only issues I'd say things in your world are good...or better than most

I would say that other than a nuclear exchange or a world melt down i think the abortion issue is a dead topic, which keeps getting brought up by the liberals to put fear into the center...

I'm not sure on the hormone medications, i can see it being an issue if under 18, but over 18 your an adult your free to do with yourself as you please... 

Marijuana, is here to stay, entrenched in our country as 5 % beer, even god would have a tough time taking that away...

even the smart as a rock conservatives know that.

[Michael Hardner]

51 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. Should I have to insert something into my body to make you safer?

2. What's the difference between a government vaccine mandate and Justin Trudeau raping me?  

1. Sometimes yes, we are asking nicely...

2. End of response from me.

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Sometimes yes, we are asking nicely...

2. End of response from me.

Government is not asking nicely.  

[Nexii]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I'm not a big fan for yesterdays Conservatives, and to be honest was a fan of mad max until he went off the deep end. But if these are your only issues I'd say things in your world are good...or better than most

I would say that other than a nuclear exchange or a world melt down i think the abortion issue is a dead topic, which keeps getting brought up by the liberals to put fear into the center...

I'm not sure on the hormone medications, i can see it being an issue if under 18, but over 18 your an adult your free to do with yourself as you please... 

Marijuana, is here to stay, entrenched in our country as 5 % beer, even god would have a tough time taking that away...

even the smart as a rock conservatives know that.

Kids have a right to get medical help too. Would you deny a kid cancer treatment out of ideology? Courts tend to rule against that sort of thing. Parents don't have absolute say over their kid's medical care - as it should be.

The left rules from a feeling of pride, whereas the right rules from a feeling of disgust. Not so much from a desire to give freedom on all issues as they try to say. Until the right sheds that hypocrisy, it's going to be an uphill battle at the polls. Traditionally it takes about 10 years of losing for a party to come around and get it, maybe the CPC will get there before the next election call. If we ever have one

[Nexii]

Will note the PPC seems to have dropped all the anti-LGBT garbage off their website. And CPC makes little mention in their policy about it. I think there is a slow movement where the right is getting there. A realization that religosity is in steep decline. That to appeal to most voters they have to give up on these divisive issues that few really care about and focus on bigger issues like the economy and the right to dissent

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Kids have a right to get medical help too. Would you deny a kid cancer treatment out of ideology? Courts tend to rule against that sort of thing. Parents don't have absolute say over their kid's medical care - as it should be.

The left rules from a feeling of pride, whereas the right rules from a feeling of disgust. Not so much from a desire to give freedom on all issues as they try to say. Until the right sheds that hypocrisy, it's going to be an uphill battle at the polls. Traditionally it takes about 10 years of losing for a party to come around and get it, maybe the CPC will get there before the next election call. If we ever have one

1. Yes they do, but they are not old enough to make major decisions in their life. and unless they changed the law, parents are responsible for those decisions.. do we let children play with loaded fire arms...why ?... it is not in the Childs best interest.

2. your not trying to equate hormone therapy with cancer treatment are you ? one you die if treatment is withheld, the other should be made by an adult....

3.  Today i think both sides see it the same way, and all do so with pride, but pride does not make you or your ideals good or right.

There needs to be a balance for our country to run, you can not make everyone happy, hence why we have so many political parties... one shoe does not fit everyone..

Just a question what has the federal Liberal party done that fills you with pride lately or lets open it up to all of Justins time in power...was it when he was accused of groping  ( sexual assault) a female reporter, or his 3 times he went black face as an adult, SNC scandal, the WE scandal, his treatment of his minister of justice for not doing something illegal, his India trip, the way other world leaders treat him, the list is pretty long, but it has nothing to do with feel pride in his accomplishment as the PM. But maybe i am wrong maybe you do feel proud of those accomplishments, which would beg the question why ? 

[Army Guy]

5 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Will note the PPC seems to have dropped all the anti-LGBT garbage off their website. And CPC makes little mention in their policy about it. I think there is a slow movement where the right is getting there. A realization that religosity is in steep decline. That to appeal to most voters they have to give up on these divisive issues that few really care about and focus on bigger issues like the economy and the right to dissent

Those issues have not been on the CPC policies or election promises since way before harper... it was Justins campaign guys that brought up those topics and lied to you and me about them, tell us that if elected they would bring in anti abortion policies, anti LGBTQ policies, and force or bring back more religious beliefs... now i've been known to been wrong before, actually lots of times, but if you can give me a source that states or backs up your opinion i would gladly admit being wrong. 

[Nexii]

I didn't mean pride in the positive sense. I meant it in the negative righteous sense. The left thinks they understand trans issues and such, but they don't really. It's complex to explain but there is an overall sense of hubris. Whereas the right is ruled by fear. The fear that a young teen might make the wrong decision, although on the balance of things the greater and more likely fear should be that of suicide.

[Nexii]

5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Those issues have not been on the CPC policies or election promises since way before harper... it was Justins campaign guys that brought up those topics and lied to you and me about them, tell us that if elected they would bring in anti abortion policies, anti LGBTQ policies, and force or bring back more religious beliefs... now i've been known to been wrong before, actually lots of times, but if you can give me a source that states or backs up your opinion i would gladly admit being wrong. 

Yea I think it has been the CPC's inability to just clearly state their policy that did them in. At least Harper was upfront, and that gave him a lot of appeal. It's why he won so many elections. Since Harper it's been weak leaders who can't say what the party stands for which is never going to win.

[Army Guy]

1 minute ago, Nexii said:

Yea I think it has been the CPC's inability to just clearly state their policy that did them in. At least Harper was upfront, and that gave him a lot of appeal. It's why he won so many elections. Since Harper it's been weak leaders who can't say what the party stands for which is never going to win.

I think the whole universe will agree with that. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Should I have to insert something into my body to make you safer?

What's the difference between a government vaccine mandate and Justin Trudeau raping me?  In both cases the government is putting an instrument into my body and secreting fluid inside my body that i don't want.

When do we have rights of body autonomy and when do we not?

2,490 fully-vaxed people died from covid in Canada now. That number is almost a week old, so it's probably closer to 2,800 now. 

Safe to say that the vaccines aren't stopping the spread of covid. 

[Army Guy]

6 minutes ago, Nexii said:

I didn't mean pride in the positive sense. I meant it in the negative righteous sense. The left thinks they understand trans issues and such, but they don't really. It's complex to explain but there is an overall sense of hubris. Whereas the right is ruled by fear. The fear that a young teen might make the wrong decision, although on the balance of things the greater and more likely fear should be that of suicide.

To be honest i don't think anyone understands it, i know i don't , nor do i think those very young people going through it don't truly understand it.. what i do relate to is suicide. and for that help is available to most people on the condition they seek it, or survive an attempt and it is forced on them... to many times we are to invested in our own lives that we don't see someone struggling until it is to late...

[Moonlight Graham]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Sometimes yes, we are asking nicely...

2. End of response from me.

1. Forcing someone isn't "asking nicely".  If "sometimes yes", what are those conditions?

2. Ok.

[Moonlight Graham]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

2,490 fully-vaxed people died from covid in Canada now. That number is almost a week old, so it's probably closer to 2,800 now. 

Safe to say that the vaccines aren't stopping the spread of covid. 

The science says the vaccines do slow the spread and make survival much higher.  This of course has nothing to do with whether someone has the choice to get the vaccine or not.

I support vaccines and I support choice.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, West said:

Are we being gaslight by the left?

No, it's entirely self-inflicted. This forum provides a perfect environment for doing so.

Edited February 18, 2022 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

52 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. Forcing someone isn't "asking nicely".   

2. Ok.

1. Agreed

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, Goddess said:

Very disingenuous.

The Charter defines our rights.  It is the government that is changing the Charter to suit themselves.

The rest of your post is just.....silliness.

Try to add some adult thoughts next time.

Yes the Charter defines our rights, not you or a mob.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

Will note the PPC seems to have dropped all the anti-LGBT garbage off their website. And CPC makes little mention in their policy about it. I think there is a slow movement where the right is getting there. A realization that religosity is in steep decline. That to appeal to most voters they have to give up on these divisive issues that few really care about and focus on bigger issues like the economy and the right to dissent

I think it may be too late for Canada, which is hurtling towards China-style totalitarian capitalism/surveillance capitalism/digital capitalism.  Actually it’s already arrived, but Trudeau is blind to what he has instituted, which is in fact unconstitutional policies backstopped by martial law. He’s tried to mollify it with euphemisms and conditions, but that is our reality in Canada today.  Canada is a totalitarian country.  

Edited February 18, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Nexii]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think it may be too late for Canada, which is hurtling towards China-style totalitarian capitalism/surveillance capitalism/digital capitalism.  Actually it’s already arrived, but Trudeau is blind to what he has instituted, which is in fact unconstitutional policies backstopped by martial law. He’s tried to mollify it with euphemisms and conditions, but that is our reality in Canada today.  Canada is a totalitarian country.  

It's hard to say. I do think the courts will push back on all of this. They've been in a sort of slumber due to COVID but we are coming out of it.

I think the biggest flaw with most western democracies is that they don't hold elections often enough. 4-5 years is way too much time to be in power. The Roman Republic had it right, a new leader every year. Ideally we would ban political parties too.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Nexii said:

It's hard to say. I do think the courts will push back on all of this. They've been in a sort of slumber due to COVID but we are coming out of it.

I think the biggest flaw with most western democracies is that they don't hold elections often enough. 4-5 years is way too much time to be in power. The Roman Republic had it right, a new leader every year. Ideally we would ban political parties too.

I have to say that given the ease of online voting, we could become more democratic in real time.  We had rich discussions about this last summer, the idea of more frequent referenda.  However, the public doesn’t have to sit on committees to look at budgets and other limitations, so you can end up with policies that are impractical to implement.  That’s another reason for having constitutional protections, to keep the electorate within parameters that don’t discriminate or abuse minority or individual rights.  

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The science says the vaccines do slow the spread and make survival much higher.  This of course has nothing to do with whether someone has the choice to get the vaccine or not.

I support vaccines and I support choice.

Vs the original strain, maybe. No one knows because it was all just theory until the vaxes hit the general population, and by that time delta had taken over.

During delta the vaxes helped out to an extent where it was highly advisable for people in the at-risk categories, but even the CDC in the US has admitted that natural immunity was 6x stronger than vaxing against delta.

Against omicron there have been quite a few more deaths among the fully vaxed than the unvaxed. It probably helps somewhat, but not by so much that force-vaxing 5-40 yr olds should even be a consideration. It's more of an abomination.

 

My main point of contention against the mandates is that they're forcing millions of people to vax who are not at risk from covid at all, and they do it to 1) make money and 2) to drive up the vax success rates. Vaxing 5-40 yr olds is completely unnecessary.