Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[CITIZEN_2015]

44 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

End all restrictions immediately.  Scrap the ridiculous government mask requirements.  Let businesses and individuals decide how to protect themselves.  Our health care systems and ICU’s will be fine and our death rate for Covid will remain below the leading causes of death in Canada.  Stop empowering government to control your behaviour and movements.  Wake up!

Yes as of September 1st, I will defy any restrictions in place. Mainly unvaccinated people would be at risk so be it that was their choice.

[OftenWrong]

“All I need to do is sit back and watch you people come around.”

-Me not arguing about CV, because I know it just takes some people longer.

[CITIZEN_2015]

For the second day in a row Ontario reports more than 500 new cases.

For the second day in a row, Ontario is reporting more than 500 new cases of COVID-19 and most of the infections were found in unvaccinated individuals.

Of the 510 cases confirmed, 368 are in unvaccinated people and 57 are in partially vaccinated individuals, Health Minister Christine Elliott said in a tweet.

Right now, there are 123 people are in hospital with COVID-19, nine of which are fully vaccinated. The remaining 114 patients are either not fully vaccinated or have an unknown vaccination status, according to Elliott.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Mandatory vaccination for all Federal Public Servants. Good for Federal Government. Great for Canada

Starting as soon as next month, the vaccine will be made mandatory for federal employees and those working in some federally regulated industries (airlines and railways, among others) in an effort to boost stalled vaccination rates.

The government says it also "expects" that other employers in federally regulated sectors — like banking, broadcasting and telecommunication — will require vaccination for their employees.

[myata]

In the second and third waves, case counts beat those of the first wave setting all time records, with mandatory masking policies in place that were supposed to make difference. We should not repeat the same mistake with the vaccines. With close to 70% of population vaccinated, plus children over 12 coming, if vaccination is effective it should already provide strong protection that will manifest itself in statistics - we only need to wait couple of months to see it. If the cases stay low, the effectiveness of the vaccines will bring levels even higher without any forced measures.

And if for any reasons it would fail to materialize as with mask, the time will be not to jump, cry wolf again and again, and impose all kind of mandates but to observe and think. These are not the same, and the results are different too.

By the way Israel with one of the highest rates of vaccination is reporting a surge of cases with calls for further lockdowns. Deja vu? From lockdowns to vaccination and back again?

[OftenWrong]

29 minutes ago, myata said:

setting all time records, with mandatory masking policies in place that were supposed to make difference.

Yep. I remember telling folks here that giving masks to the general public could actually increase harm. They dont use them properly, so they dont give protection yet create a false sense of security. For that I was called a Nazi, by people who have never been trained to work with masks. People who sit at their desks in an office all day.

34 minutes ago, myata said:

the time will be not to jump, cry wolf again and again, and impose all kind of mandates but to observe and think.

Sadly it seems the time for that passed long ago.

[myata]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yep. I remember telling folks here that giving masks to the general public could actually increase harm. Sadly it seems the time for that passed long ago.

If you're curious, in another thread someone posted a reference to a scientific, peer-reviewed bona fide study cited in The Lancet that stated just that, for "influenza-like illness".

[CITIZEN_2015]

Vaccines are effective. If you argue against all the scientific data (a few reflected in my previous posts) that majority of infections are now among the 18% unvaccinated and overwhelming majority of hospitalizations and deaths too then you only discredit yourself.

Today's statistics- 408 of 578 new infections are among the minority 18% unvaccinated, Only one of ICU patients out of 111 in Ontario is fully vaccinated.

Edited August 14, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[myata]

21 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Today's statistics- 408 of 578 new infections are among the minority 18% unvaccinated, Only one of ICU patients out of 111 in Ontario is fully vaccinated.

This time Ontario is way above last years numbers, at which time, obviously there were no vaccinated. It makes it very unlikely that vaccinated do not transmit - it would mean that less than a third of population makes several times over the cases of the last year and such a dramatic shift would certainly have been noticed by the research community. And that removes all grounds for mandatory, and imposed vaccinations. With great majority vaccinated (we have close to 70% and children will add more) remove all restrictions, vaccinated people are protected and unvaccinated ones responsible for their choices, like drinking, smoking, drugs etc. Nothing is essentially different in this case, unless proven by facts. And now let's see what actually happens.

P.S. with reports of suppression of information in scientific circles some may want to reserve their judgement till more representative data is available.

Edited August 14, 2021 by myata

[RedDog]

The daily graph on the front Global News page today shows positive tests up 151% in the past 14 days. We moved way to fast and we’re paying.

The USA is completely out of control.

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, myata said:

This time Ontario is way above last years numbers, at which time, obviously there were no vaccinated. It makes it very unlikely that vaccinated do not transmit - it would mean that less than a third of population makes several times over the cases of the last year and such a dramatic shift would certainly have been noticed by the research community. And that removes all grounds for mandatory, and imposed vaccinations. With great majority vaccinated (we have close to 70% and children will add more) remove all restrictions, vaccinated people are protected and unvaccinated ones responsible for their choices, like drinking, smoking, drugs etc. Nothing is essentially different in this case, unless proven by facts. And now let's see what actually happens.

P.S. with reports of suppression of information in scientific circles some may want to reserve their judgement till more representative data is available.

No it means this year we have the damn Delta variant which is  a lot more transmittable than last year's alpha or original virus. 

Suppression of information lol? Is this the old evil Soviet empire or the islamic dictatorship to suppress information. Please do not spread false rumors.

[myata]

Essentially, what the data on vaccination efficacy, over 90% prevention of hospitalizations tell us is that for the vaccinated, the risk of serious Covid should be comparable to, or lower than that of the flu (feel free to make the calculation but that would be my guess). And no one went head over heels crazy about the flu, there were no quarantines, lockdowns, mandatory masking rules, etc.

Of course, this is a new thing and dropping all measures at once may not be wise, but this should still be the clear direction, not dragging them forever just in case of another wave. And we can start with those mandatory blank measures that had the weakest base in the evidence, such as masking in well-spaced environments at very low and low levels of infection. Some countries did that and some provinces too and the sky has not fallen, it's just a matter of common sense, as well as professional responsibility and accountability.

[myata]

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No it means this year we have the damn Delta variant...

I'm not interested in scary-cheerful blah-blah-blah with zero factual evidence. We were told that vaccines were effective against variants and it's not some quantum world there a claim and its contrary can be true at the same time. That muzak can be played forever and no, I'm not interested, just pass on.

[CITIZEN_2015]

20 minutes ago, myata said:

I'm not interested in scary-cheerful blah-blah-blah with zero factual evidence. We were told that vaccines were effective against variants and it's not some quantum world there a claim and its contrary can be true at the same time. That muzak can be played forever and no, I'm not interested, just pass on.

Do you understand data. I just provided data released today proving the effectiveness of vaccines. Over 400 out of over 500 new infections were among the tiny minority unvaccinated. 110 out of 111 people in ICU are among the tiny minority unvaccinated. When you faced with solid proof that vaccines are effective then you chose another twisted way of discrediting vaccines by claiming that Canada is a dictatorship and our governments suppress or falsify data. Stop it. You put doubts in people's minds and cause vaccine hesitancy and deaths by false statements,

All doctors and experts are encouraging vaccinations as well as governments and politicians. They are all part of a big conspiracy to kill people?

Edited August 14, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Zeitgeist]

Yes encourage vaccination.  We’re well on our way to fully vaccinating over 80% of eligible people.  Great.  The problem now isn’t vaccination resistance.  That may be a moot point anyway as vaccination becomes mandatory across many fields if not universally.  The issue now is that we’re spending billions and creating non-Covid health problems by imposing restrictions.  Other than for children under 12 there shouldn’t be mandatory masking and other restrictions.  The death and hospitalization rates don’t justify them.  The vaccinated are largely protected.  Even unvaccinated children have very low death rates.  We don’t require masking for flu protection.  These restrictions are a direct assault on human freedom.

 I do think this fits into a larger long term plan to keep people local.  There’s a big climate initiative for radical measures.  This is the meaning of the “Great Reset”.   This isn’t conspiracy nonsense; this is your openly proclaimed reality.  The only way to push back for human freedom is to demand the elimination of government-mandated restrictions.   The Ontario government is announcing this week that it is not reopening any further.  The Canada-US land border remains closed to vaccinated Canadians. Your movements and behaviour are being tightly controlled for no good reason.  I think Canada has to stop letting the Americans in unless we get reciprocal access.  I think governments must be sued for damages to businesses and public health.  These restrictions are stupid, unnecessary, and self-defeating.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[Winston]

28 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Do you understand data. I just provided data released today proving the effectiveness of vaccines. Over 400 out of over 500 new infections were among the tiny minority unvaccinated. 110 out of 111 people in ICU are among the tiny minority unvaccinated.

Vaccinations work quite well. They have an extensive history of success. How well does the current vaccination prevent infection? This is currently inconclusive, but it seems more likely that none immune unvaccinated have a higher infection ratio. Keep in mind the unvaccinated are tested more commonly than the vaccinated(cite below), this may skew data.

"Fully vaccinated people can:

• Resume domestic travel and refrain from testing before or after travel and from self-quarantine after travel.
• Refrain from testing before leaving the United States for international travel (unless required by the destination) and refrain from self-quarantine after arriving back in the United States.
• Refrain from routine screening testing if feasible. "
  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

Overall the numbers suggest that the vaccinated have a lower risk of infection, sever infection and lower viral shedding.  

Unrelated to vaccinations, I am curious what is the risk of delta variant infection of those that are immune from the original strain? I have not found a study addressing this question.  We still do not know how many people have been infected with the original strain, an important number. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

15 minutes ago, Winston said:

 

Overall the numbers suggest that the vaccinated have a lower risk of infection, sever infection and lower viral shedding.  

 

No. based on all available data released nationally and internationally it suggests that the vaccinated have a significant lower risk of infection, sever infection and lower viral shedding.  You seem to undermine the effectiveness of vaccines to some extend but still not as bad as a few others who try to totally discredit vaccines by a campaign of misinformation. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[WestCanMan]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:59 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Again it is madness to throw in nonsense statements like that. Which part of my posts are from Liberal Party of Canada? My support for the return of Capital Punishment? My support for private health care system? My support for cut in immigration levels or my support for mandatory vaccination? Geez!!!!!!!!!

Don't take it personally. It makes sense for people to believe what they see on the news. 

At the same time, you should be paying attention to see if you're being lied to when you're watching networks with such a ripe history of lying and no real relationship with the truth. 

The CBC narrative that "everybody dies from covid" is just patently false. Why would alt-left news channels take the time to tell you about "a 59 yr-old from a different country who died from C19 with no underlying medical conditions" if that kind of thing was normal? That wouldn't even be a story if we didn't already have very good reason to believe that covid wasn't killing healthy people.

And by "reason", I mean statistics compiled by millions of cases in developed countries which show that 95% of C19 deaths are among people over 60, and people over 60 represent less than 15% of the population. And even within that group, the vast majority of deaths are among people with co-morbidities.

Why is it that every bit of C19 news that you see counts as fear-mongering, and stats/facts are the one thing that they never discuss? 

Why are they so set on vaccines as a treatment and bludgeoning all other possible avenues of success? 

Why are they delivering this narrative about 'the efficacy of vaccines' that seems to be false? 

How are we to know if it's really "the shiny new Delta Variant' that's rendering the vaxx ineffective, or if that vaxx just wasn't really good enough?

Why do they act like no one has died after vaxxing when that's not the case?

We hear about every anti-vaxxer who dies, but we never hear about people who died with 3 days of getting vaxxed. There are thousands of them. Why are they a dirty little secret?

What about the thousands of people who died from covid after dbl-vaxxing?

 

Literally everything that the leftists and the WHO and the CBC did at the start of the pandemic seemed to be directed at spreading the pandemic. "Covid won't even get here, don't block flights because that's racist, don't quarantine people from covid hotspots, China can have all of our PPE, we will buy the Chinese vaccine, don't wear masks, ride the subway like normal, hug strangers in large groups, rioting and looting will not spread covid but walking in a park will, care homes can handle these C19-infected seniors, etc." If you want to check on all those things, they're all 100% true, and every single one of those things happened after Trump was already actually fighting covid. Trump shut down travel from China after only 5 deaths. He shut down the economy when there were less than 100 deaths. But your news tell you that Trump was a failure and that all of these other clowns were perfect. How the fuck is that even possible? How can a guy like Chris Cuomo, who broke quarantine without a mask on while he was known to be infected, call other people irresponsible for not vaxxing? It's an absolute certainty that Chris's brother, Governor Andrew Cuomo, literally murdered people with covid when he had better alternatives (eg - the temp hospitals set up by Trump) but all that people care about is that he grabbed a couple asses and maybe one set of boobs? Is this shit really news? 

The day that the leftists stopped doing literally everything that they could to spread covid, they started fear mongering covid and pimping the vaxx (big pharma is one of the most powerful lobbyist groups in the US). "It's the only hope. HCQ will kill you (100% a lie, HCQ's safety has been proven through 7 decades). The vaxxes are perfectly safe. The vaxxes will work. They're working now, don't look at any stats. The Delta variant threw us a curve. Get a booster shot".

Ask yourself, how can the people who thought that HCQ was deadly - after being proven safe through billions of doses over 7 decades - suddenly trust vaccines with zero days worth of proven safety records? 

Big Parma, big tech, and Amazon are making off like bandits right now while small businesses are taking a bloodbath, and all 3 of those guys are right squarely in bed with leftists and their sycophant media. You know for a fact that the news is not telling us the truth about covid, ever. They control us with fear, and you know that you'll be shamed or maybe even lose your job if you speak up.  

You're just following the narrative without thinking bro. If you even catch the news actively lying to you once, you should remember that for the rest of your life. They lie all the time dude. More often than not, when their lips are moving, they're lying. 

[WestCanMan]

On 8/13/2021 at 7:42 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Right now, there are 123 people are in hospital with COVID-19, nine of which are fully vaccinated. The remaining 114 patients are either not fully vaccinated or have an unknown vaccination status, according to Elliott.

This is a perfect example of a stat that can be 100% misleading, yet have the appearance of being totally meaningful & legitimate, but if you really think about it, the wording appears to be intentionally ambiguous and for some reason they chose to omit the numbers from the most obvious category of all. Why do you think that is?

 

 

1) Why is there not a category called "completely unvaccinated"? If we get to know the number of 'fully vaxxed' people, then why don't we get to know exactly how many people are in there who are completely unvaccinated? That seems like one of the top two most obvious categories. Is that number zero? Is it less than 9? We are left with absolutely no clue, and that's weird.

 

2) "Fully vaccinated" is a very specific target to hit. It can be limited to mean that your vaxxing met all the following standards:

• you got the exact same vaccine twice, 
• at the prescribed interval between doses, and 
• the proper amount of time has passed after the second shot for the vaxx to be in full effect.

If they limited "fully vaccinated" to those exacting standards, then 9 is an extremely high number, because almost no one in Canada got vaxxed following the prescribed guidelines to a T, and not many people were fully done until recently.

 

Quote

not fully vaccinated

3) Not fully vaccinated can mean:

• only vaccinated once
• vaccinated twice, but the 2nd vaxx was given recently and isn't in full effect yet
• vaccinated twice, but with different vaccines (afaik only Canaduh is doing that) 
• vaccinated twice, but not strictly adhering to the producer's prescribed vaxx guidelines.

Almost everyone who's considered to be "dbl-vaxxed" in Canada falls into the last 3 categories above.

 

4) Unknown vaccination status - This 3rd category is a red herring, included to give the appearance that this is a comprehensive study because it considers 'so many options'. IE, the number of people who fit into this category would be minuscule. It's limited to: "people with no ID who are unable to communicate or are deemed to be lying". I say that because we have something called "medical records" in Canada and not many people who are being cared for are unable to communicate their vaxx status. Does even 1 person really fit into this category? I doubt it.  

[CITIZEN_2015]

43 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

 

Big Parma, big tech, and Amazon are making off like bandits right now while small businesses are taking a bloodbath, and all 3 of those guys are right squarely in bed with leftists and their sycophant media. You know for a fact that the news is not telling us the truth about covid, ever. They control us with fear, and you know that you'll be shamed or maybe even lose your job if you speak up.  

 

You seriously believe that leftists (including the conservative party who encourages vaccination), doctors, all experts, all provincial governments, news media, ...... God know who else are all in a big conspiracy to make big pharma, big tech and Amazon rich at the cost of killing 80% of population?

[Infidel Dog]

Quote

killing 80% of population

"80% of the population???"

Where did you get that stat from, scare-monger?

Are you trying to make WestCanMan's point for him by leaping aboard the leftist, state-run or corporate media's fear train?

Here's one below that surprises me. I don't know how they slipped it by the bosses.

'We are not anti-vaxxers': Concerns over side-effects, research among main reasons some Canadians are not getting COVID-19 vaccine

It has to do with the real reasons some Canadians are Vaccine hesitant. Turns out it's not far-right, nut-baggery.

The article has some interesting sidebar info too, like alternative vaccines getting long-range testing that may be one jab solutions.

I've only scanned the second half so far but I didn't see any talk of therapeutics. For me that's a big one and I'm wondering if that is something the bosses don't want too many people talking about.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[WestCanMan]

23 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You seriously believe that leftists (including the conservative party who encourages vaccination), doctors, all experts, all provincial governments, news media, ...... God know who else are all in a big conspiracy to make big pharma, big tech and Amazon rich at the cost of killing 80% of population?

Not everyone is engaging in conspiracy, but ask yourself this - are you afraid to speak the truth if it goes against what everyone else is saying? Why is the left's main strategy for fight covid to silence dissent and eliminate alternative C19 treatments? Shouldn't we be taking an "all hands on deck" approach? 

When the gov't and the news are blasting "GET THE VAXX! EVERYONE ELSE IS DYING OR SPREADING THE VID!" 24/7, who else can offer an opinion? 

If someone follows your advice and dies, can you get sued? Yep. The vaxx companies can't be sued though, because you have to sign a waiver to get it. 

Furthermore, no one can sue you for saying: "get the vaxx that big pharma pumped out" because you can say that you're following Trudeau's message and 'the science' that's being reported in the media. Is anyone gonna sue the little guy who's just following the PM's guidelines?

Is the PM, who went to work for SNC Lavalin when they're a known criminal entity with a court-documented history of bribing Canadian politicians, and who seemingly used the We charity to funnel taxpayer money into his family's pockets, above taking the "advice" wink, wink, of big pharma? 

 

The WHO has one job, I say again, one job, and they get billions of dollars to do it. But any mom on the planet could do it for free, better than the WHO did it on the one occasion when they were really needed. Go ahead and ask any mom if they know what "avoid it like the plague" means. How did the WHO not know? Shouldn't it be on P1 of The Plague Manual? Ask yourself, "If ebola was spreading like wildfire in the Congo, and planes were coming into Canada from there unscreened, and un-quarantined, for 90 days, would that freak me out? Would I go to the airport?" The answers are all obvious. 

Ask yourself: "If c19 was so bad that so many people were dying, why did we leave flights from Wuhan open when the Chinese gov't wasn't even allowing anyone to leave there to go to the rest of China?"

NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE from the pov of "leftist governments were fighting covid all along". Can you name me one leftist politician that was fighting covid before March 16th? What did they actually do? What sensible and effective message did they convey to you? Seriously, try to find a cite. Why was Trump considered a racist for doing something so obvious, when the Chinese gov't was doing the same thing themselves? Why did airports get shut down on March 16th if it wasn't important before then?

 

Stop sticking up for the people who you know lied to you and start asking yourself the questions that make you feel cognitive dissonance. It's there for a reason. You actually know that you're being lied to, you just don't want to admit it to yourself, because that's scary. 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by WestCanMan

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

"80% of the population???"

Where did you get that stat from, scare-monger?

 

 

 

It is estimated that 80% of people over 12 have got the vaccine in Canada and after Pfizer approval for those under 12, some 80% of population will be vaccinated so those arguing against vaccines from safety point of view indicating safety concerns as a conspiracy theory in effect are saying some money grabbing people risk killing 80% of population in order to get rich and governments, politicians, doctors, experts all in it with them.

[Infidel Dog]

They risk nothing. Can the blather and post the death rate stats if you think you have point.

Spoiler alert: The death rate for the virus or its variants is so far away from 80% one would have to wonder why you think your claim belongs in this reality.

[CITIZEN_2015]

9 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

They risk nothing. Can the blather and post the death rate stats if you think you have point.

Spoiler alert: The death rate for the virus or its variants is so far away from 80% one would have to wonder why you think your claim belongs in this reality.

Translation needed for first part.

As for second part, the 80% population figure referred to the risk of dying from vaccines as some people are claiming not the disease.