Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[myata]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Suppression of information lol? Is this the old evil...

Now that you said it, please check the post of this Wednesday (i.e. three days ago) in the "Vaccine passports" thread, you may recall it because you commented how scary the numbers looked. I didn't make a screenshot but memory rarely fails me and I can tell for certain what it showed: in the rubric "in ICU due to Covid", 7 fully vaccinated, 5 partially, zero non vaccinated. No mistake, I and you and maybe some people on this board saw it. And now let's look what it's showing today (same site same rubric): https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data.

This is ICU not like one gets in and out right away and it's been, to remind, three days. Not into conspiracy theories however this stuff is real and the question is, what is it? Is it Orwellian already or just still oh so new, not to worry? Honestly I couldn't care much but will be reluctant like h%ll to trust any data from these sources without additional verification.

[Zeitgeist]

So since we all agree that since the vast majority of adults who don’t get vaccinated have chosen not to get vaccinated, and therefore we shouldn’t have mandatory restrictions to protect them, it’s only unvaccinated children under 12 that we need to protect with restrictions.  Okay, so what is the risk of death to unvaccinated children?  The risk of death to children who get COVID-19 is one in 10000.   That’s not one in 10000 children will die of Covid.  That’s one in 10000 children who get Covid.  Only 20% of all Covid cases in Canada are child cases (for ages 19 and younger).  Over a third of children are 12 to 18 years old and therefore eligible for vaccination.  How many children in your town are getting Covid?   Well we’ve had less than 1.5 million Covid cases in Canada.  That’s 4% of the population.  So, if roughly 13% of that 4% are unvaccinated kids who get Covid, that means that on average out of a community of 1 million people in Canada, 5200 people in that community will be unvaccinated kids under 12 who get COVID-19, and of that 5200, .01% of those unvaccinated kids will die of Covid.

According to current data, death from COVID-19 in unvaccinated children under 12 represents approximately one person in 2 million.  It makes sense because as of August 9, 2021, 15 people aged 19 and under have died of Covid-19 in Canada.  Also this includes deaths of 12 and up prior to vaccination.  So, do you think that any restrictions are necessary in secondary and middle schools where all kids and staff are eligible for vaccination?   I do not.  I don’t think they’re necessary in primary/elementary schools either based on those rates, since the adults can be vaccinated and don’t need excessive protection.  The unvaccinated children are relatively safe from extreme illness and death.   I’m sure masking mandates will continue for K-6 students and staff indoors (unnecessarily), certainly in hotspots, which should mean that all other restrictions can be lifted. Really all mandatory restrictions should be lifted.  The choice should be up to individuals and parents.

About 150 kids aged 15 and under die of cancer each year in Canada, 10 times the death rate for COVID-19 in people age 19 and under.   End all restrictions immediately!  Stop accepting fascistic government overreach!

https://apple.news/ARpPEwaFqSoC5DteJ_mbjgw

Edited August 14, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Here's one below that surprises me. I don't know how they slipped it by the bosses.

'We are not anti-vaxxers': Concerns over side-effects, research among main reasons some Canadians are not getting COVID-19 vaccine

It has to do with the real reasons some Canadians are Vaccine hesitant. Turns out it's not far-right, nut-baggery.

It's surprising to see Canadian media present reasonable comments from people who turned down the jab. It's contrary to their overall message.

Personally, I'd definitely take a chance on the vaxx if this was ebola going around, or right at the start of the pandemic when theoretically whole families were dying in China, but since the data has started pointing more and more towards the fact that covid is only a severe threat to very elderly & immuno-compromised people, I see the vaxx as an unnecessary risk without much reward. 

If I was a young woman trying to get pregnant, or already pregnant, there's no way that I'd take an mRNA vaxx right now. 

One of our girls had to get the jab because she started teaching, and it freaks me out because she still hasn't had kids yet. What if they're brain-damaged? Could my future generations be liberal voters? I'd rather get the vid myself.

[myata]

Israel, USA and Ontario all reporting outbreaks, all with highest proportion of vaccinations. Cases in Ontario multiples of last years, with no vaccines. And it's blamed on unvaccinated and the restrictions stay on (why, if so effective?). The problem is in Israel and Ontario there aren't that many unvaccinated to blame on.

Government ICU statistics flip on a dime in a matter of days.

Travel from Wuhan, all over again? OK at least something is constant here, can be trusted to never change.

[Infidel Dog]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

the 80% population figure referred to the risk of dying from vaccines as some people are claiming not the disease.

That would still be BS then, wouldn't it?

I get it though rather than the usual scare-mongering we hear from the flip floppers whose "science" seems to change from month to month to support their political agendas, you're claiming supporters of allowing the vaccine hesitant to have a voice are scare-mongering you.

Except nobody did that, did they? Somebody said Canada was well on the way to 80% vaccination. Somebody else may have noted that a portion of those ( and it's very tiny) may have been adversely affected to the point it looks like some have died. Stats from the government agency VAERS suggest it.

Nobody said if you get vaccinated you're also going to die. So again, where are you getting this 80% from?

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

I was going to go get my second shot today but now I'm not.

I want to see where this talk of booster shots goes. Are you going to have to get your vaccine passport updated semi-annually or something?

I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I'm far from buying in to this one just yet. I'm vaccine hesitant myself.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

Also, I think I'd rather go therapeutics than the mRNA vacciney thingy. 

It may be a problem finding a Canadian doctor that will prescribe things like Hydroxychloroquine, Remdesivir or Ivermectin, but there's probably a way.

You Fauci-ites can feel free to cross your fingers and hope it doesn't work though. I don't care.

[WestCanMan]

28 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

It may be a problem finding a Canadian doctor that will prescribe things like .... Remdesivir ....

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/covid19-industry/drugs-vaccines-treatments/remdesivir-update.html#:~:text=Remdesivir was authorized with conditions,pneumonia requiring supplemental oxygen.

Quote

Date published: November 26, 2020

The World Health Organization (WHO) is conditionally recommending that remdesivir not be used in patients with COVID-19, regardless of how severe the disease is. The WHO released its recommendation and guidelines on November 20, 2020.

Health Canada has reviewed the WHO considerations and recommendations.

From the same link:

Quote

We are not making any immediate changes to the status of remdesivir in Canada at this time. Remdesivir will continue to be available as a treatment option for those with severe COVID-19 disease. Our position is the same as those of other major international regulators, such as the European Medicines Agency and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/final-report-confirms-remdesivir-benefits-covid-19

Quote

Researchers began a randomized, controlled trial of the antiviral in February 2020 to test whether remdesivir could be used to treat SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. By April, early results indicated that remdesivir accelerated recovery for hospitalized patients with severe COVID-19. It became the first drug to receive emergency use authorization from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to treat people hospitalized with COVID-19.

Researchers have now completed the trial, known as the Adaptive COVID-19 Treatment Trial (ACTT-1). The study was funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID). The final report appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine on October 8, 2020.

Scientists randomly assigned 1,062 hospitalized COVID-19 patients to receive remdesivir or a placebo plus standard treatment. The patients received an intravenous infusion of remdesivir or placebo for up to 10 days.

The final results showed that the antiviral treatment was beneficial, consistent with the preliminary findings. Patients who received remdesivir were quicker to recover, which was defined as being medically stable enough to be discharged from the hospital. The median recovery time was 10 days with remdesivir compared to 15 days for the placebo group. Patients given remdesivir were more likely to have improved by day 15.

The WHO..... SUCKS - BIGTIME!

The trial in the second link was published in Oct 2020, and in November of that year the WHO was still recommending against the use of Remdesivir, regardless of how severe the infection is.

I didn't look around to see if the WHO had changed their stance on Remdesivir, but the link I posted was at the top of my google search.

This begs the question: why the F are Democrats so intent on funding the WHO? Is there any evidence at all that the WHO is actually fighting against C19? Because all I see is them fighting to spread it around and kill as many people as possible.

Edited August 14, 2021 by WestCanMan

[Argus]

[Argus]

[Winston]

7 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No. based on all available data released nationally and internationally it suggests that the vaccinated have a significant lower risk of infection, sever infection and lower viral shedding.  You seem to undermine the effectiveness of vaccines to some extend but still not as bad as a few others who try to totally discredit vaccines by a campaign of misinformation. 

"You seem to undermine the effectiveness of vaccines to some extend" - Please provide the evidence that suggests the vaccines significantly lower the risk of infection, sever infection and lower viral shredding. I am more than happy to change my statement to a strong conclusion if there is strong evidence. A scientific study or long term study would be great. 

 

[OftenWrong]

Right now there is more fully vaccinated (11) in the hospital than partially vaccinated (6).

Therefore we must conclude it is better to be partially vaccinated.

And it isnt me saying that. The data speaks for itself.

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

It’s really awful and sad what we’re allowing to happen here.  If I could emigrate to Texas I would, as that is one of just a few places where restrictions have been lifted completely and businesses can’t make people mask up. Tonight in Toronto I watched people sitting walled off from each other in booths in bars.  No dancing or socializing except within the table group.

There’s no end in sight for restrictions and no one in government in most parts of the country who will fight to protect human freedom.  I’m starting to think that no percentage of vaccinated people will be enough for the public health tyrants and the gutless politicians who follow them.  Jason Kenny tries, but he is buckling. Canadians are too conformist, so people are going to remain isolated and covered up indefinitely.  Why can’t we trust adults to protect themselves now that none of them are wanting for a vaccine?  I already cited the risk to unvaccinated children, which is very low.  Rationality doesn’t matter.  Our society has entered a dark age driven by fear and I don’t see an exit.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

Something weird is going with the data in Ontario. I don't know what to make of maybe someone would have explanation?

Covid-19 Ontario site

Wednesday, 11.08 "In ICU due to Covid-19": vaccinated: 7 + 5 (12), not vaccinated: 0

Saturday, 14.08: vaccinated: 5 (1 + 4), not vaccinated: 53.

All showing changes from previous day, none.

How is it even possible? There's been too many puzzles and discrepancies here. Maybe it's insidious delta or maybe the information. Everyone can make their educated guess.

[Zeitgeist]

We’re being set up to separate people and stay home. This is the end of freedom, procreation, and community. The only way out is to end all restrictions and make it as hard as possible to put them back in place.  We have to accept a higher rate of spread and hospitalization to get through this.  We can’t return to lockdowns and continue restrictions forever.  Actually, we can and we are.  It’s clear that there’s no end to the “pandemic” unless we demand it.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

We can’t return to lockdowns and continue restrictions forever.  Actually, we can and we are.  It’s clear that there’s no end to the “pandemic” unless we demand it.

What better rationale for ever bigger and more powerful governments to pay themselves out of public pocket unlimited and unchecked compensations for ongoing struggle with ever moving target? Like, forever?

[CITIZEN_2015]

12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Right now there is more fully vaccinated (11) in the hospital than partially vaccinated (6).

Therefore we must conclude it is better to be partially vaccinated.

And it isnt me saying that. The data speaks for itself.

 

 

For God's sake use the arithmetic before making such conclusions. 72% are fully vaccinated, 19% not vaccinated and this will leave only 9% who are partially vaccinated which means number of unvaccinated people is more than twice the partially vaccinated and more importantly it makes the number of fully vaccinated people 8 times higher than partially vaccinated people, so hospital numbers are accordingly to the number of people in each category

10 million fully vaccinated and 97 infection among them, 3.5 million unvaccinated people so 350 infections among them, 1.5 million partially vaccinated people so 67 infections among them.

 

 

 

Above figures clearly demonstrate the effectiveness of vaccines

Edited August 15, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Latest data:

Of the 511 cases reported Sunday, health officials say 350 were in individuals who are unvaccinated and 67 were in partially vaccinated people. The remaining 94 cases were in fully vaccinated people.

10 million fully vaccinated and 97 infection among them, 3.5 million unvaccinated people so 350 infections among them, 1.5 million partially vaccinated people so 67 infections among them.

 

0.01% infection rate among unvaccinated people for today.

0.001% infection rate among fully vaccinated people for today.

0.0045% infection rate among partially vaccinated people for today.

Infection rate among unvaccinated people is 10 times higher than fully vaccinated people or the infection rate among fully vaccinated people is 10% of unvaccinated people.

GET THE VACCINE NOW. TIME IS RUNNING OUT. If you don't care about others who can't get the vaccines at least care about yourself and your family you come in contact with.

Edited August 15, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s really awful and sad what we’re allowing to happen here.  If I could emigrate to Texas I would, as that is one of just a few places where restrictions have been lifted completely and businesses can’t make people mask up.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/12/us/texas-covid-surge-hospital-staff-masks/index.html

https://www.tpr.org/san-antonio/covid-19-tracker

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/delta-covid-variant-overwhelms-hospitals-across-texas-vqq0cmx3z

Edited August 15, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We’re being set up to separate people and stay home. This is the end of freedom, procreation, and community. 

?

[myata]

This is second observation in a short period of time of inexplicable strangeness in reported public statistics in Ontario (the first was with contact tracing) and so one has to conclude it's less likely a mere coincidence but either incompetence or manipulation. And in either case, unless and until independently verified, the data cannot be trusted blindly.

Edited August 15, 2021 by myata

[CITIZEN_2015]

11 minutes ago, myata said:

This is second observation in a short period of time of inexplicable strangeness in reported public statistics in Ontario (the first was with contact tracing) and so one has to conclude it's less likely a mere coincidence but either incompetence or manipulation. And in either case, unless and until independently verified, the data cannot be trusted blindly.

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We’re being set up to separate people and stay home. This is the end of freedom, procreation, and community. 

Yes conspiracy by governments, doctors, experts......... They want to establish a dictatorship or even stage a military coup so they want to force us to stay home by falsifying data to make the coup easier and military takeover faster  :Seriously man.

Edited August 15, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[myata]

I don't know what it is and I don't care much honestly, but these are facts that can be observed and they have no reasonable explanation. How could ICU statistics change to exactly opposite, in a matter of days? Why out of 5 contract categories, three are unknown and one irrelevant? It worries and scares me that no one even bothers to notice anymore but OK that's out of my control. My eyes, my consciousness and my reason are still mine though.

[Zeitgeist]

48 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes conspiracy by governments, doctors, experts......... They want to establish a dictatorship or even stage a military coup so they want to force us to stay home by falsifying data to make the coup easier and military takeover faster  :Seriously man.

Yes.   Okay here’s a challenge for you and Argus.   Do you think there’s a vaccination percentage of the population we will reach when restrictions won’t be necessary?   Go ahead and require vaccinations across workplaces. Require it for all eligible age groups and see if restrictions are lifted.  I want to be proven wrong, but my conclusion now that over 82% of all eligible people have received at least once vaccination (and I’m sure almost all of them will get their second) is that it won’t matter how many people are vaccinated.  The entire adult population is eligible for vaccination and the vast majority have gotten it.  Only 15 kids have died of Covid since the start of the pandemic, including prior to vaccines, and now more than a third of that age category is eligible for vaccination, yet restrictions persist.  What possible justification is there for this?   Simply, there is none.  Fear of Covid is being used to justify the partial closure of our economy and the separation of people.  It’s unscientific.  Throw all the emojis you want at this.  You’re just buying into the fear narrative.  Wear your mask until you die and you can wear it in your casket at the funeral on Zoom.  

Edited August 15, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[CITIZEN_2015]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes.   Okay here’s a challenge for you and Argus.   Do you think there’s a vaccination percentage of the population we will reach when restrictions won’t be necessary?   Go ahead and require vaccinations across workplaces. Require it for all eligible age groups and see if restrictions are lifted.  I want to be proven wrong, but my conclusion now that over 82% of all eligible people have received at least once vaccination (and I’m sure almost all of them will get their second) is that it won’t matter how many people are vaccinated.  The entire adult population is eligible for vaccination and the vast majority have gotten it.  Only 15 kids have died of Covid since the start of the pandemic, including prior to vaccines, and now more than a third of that age category is eligible for vaccination, yet restrictions persist.  What possible justification is there for this?   Simply, there is none.  Fear of Covid is being used to justify the partial closure of our economy and the separation of people.  It’s unscientific.  Throw all the emojis you want at this.  You’re just buying into the fear narrative.  Wear your mask until you die and you can wear it in your casket at the funeral on Zoom.  

The reason is because 19% of eligible population have refused vaccination and 10% still hesitant on getting their second shot.. They are 350 out of 510 reported infections (another 67 among partially vaccinated) and main source of transmission to fully vaccinated people If all fully vaccinated we would have had under 100 or maybe even under 10 new infections (considering the unvaccinated are the main source of transmission) and full opening coming soon but now we will have increasing infections and closures thanks to the choice that the unvaccinated people made.

We need to get 90% of population vaccinated to end pandemic for Delta variant.

Edited August 15, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015