Erin O'Toole is the Conservative Leader

[cannuck]

4 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Is price speculation inherently bad? Sometimes prices determined by an IPO do not well reflect the value of a company as information isn't perfect. Isn't it better to have mechanisms that allow prices to adjust?

Couldn't you choose to not invest in the companies that do this?

The US and Canada, as well as other advanced economies, have experienced low stable inflation for decades. So I'm not sure what massive inflationary forces you are referring to.

Wait, are you referring to insider trading? That is illegal.

Government's bailing out large companies isn't an inherent property of stock markets, nor of capitalism. So I am confused by its relevance to the conversation.

Yes, price speculation in equities trading is an extremely bad thing.  Once the IPO is placed the equity has nothing to do with the company other than be the landing place for dividends.  When you see market values 10x, 100x even 1,000x book value, you are seeing capital that is NOT available to be invested on Main Street or the next IPO.   A good company could pay a 5% dividend from actual profits, and a great one maybe 10%.   The promise from the casino capitalists of making 1,000% or more drives capital into the casino and out of the market for actual investment.  You MIGHT choose not to invest in that way, but when you have every hawker in every brokerage sucking you into equities, there is next to zero effort in putting money into productive use from POs or private placements in actual business. 

 All of the speculative gain (mostly on a free ride on the taxpayer's back) increases the money supply - that is a massive pent up inflationary pressure that will crash the Greenback if and when it looses hegemony.  That wealth re-distribution results in a disproportionate increase in tax burden on the middle class and much of the 1%.

Yes, insider trading may well be illegal, but it is what almost all of the large deals on the Street involve in some way.

The Secretary of Treasury of the last many US administrations have been Goldman Suck alumni.   The only master the administration has is the Street.  Bailouts of those "too big to fail" were engineered directly by Hank Paulsen - former CEO of Goldman.  There is even a docu-drama about it entitled: 
"Too Big to Fail".  You are right: bailouts are not part of capitalist ideology, but they are very much the work of casino capitalists - who are nothing but wealth re-distribution.

 

[August1991]

On 8/30/2020 at 5:16 PM, taxme said:

The GST was just another gigantic ripoff for the Canadian taxpayer. ....

 

Taxme, do you work? Have you looked at your CPP/EI  deductions?

These are federal Liberal taxes on working people. Trudeau Jnr has raised them!

=====

The GST only applies to consumers, people who buy - rich people. Mulroney was correct to create/impose the GST. 

[August1991]

On 8/30/2020 at 7:31 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Not as much as LBJ

Michael,

Fair enough.

O'Toole would not be our first Catholic federal PM. Indeed, our first federal Roman Catholic PM was John Thompson, a Conservative - in the 1800s.

Americans? They've only had one Catholic President: JFK. If Biden get's elected, he'll be the second.

In Canada? Since 1968, we've only had two Protestant PMs: Campbell and Harper.

=====

English Canadians wonder about Canada/America. Here are two distinguishing features:

1. Canada is a Catholic country (even English-speaking)

2. Canada has a very different banking system. 

 

 

[-1=e^ipi]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Yes, price speculation in equities trading is an extremely bad thing.  Once the IPO is placed the equity has nothing to do with the company other than be the landing place for dividends.  When you see market values 10x, 100x even 1,000x book value, you are seeing capital that is NOT available to be invested on Main Street or the next IPO.

Maybe my understanding of this issue is too limited. Perhaps if we break this down into parts I can understand things better.

1. So, as I understand it, market value can exceed book value since the market value would capture intangibles and growth prospects. In an economy where an increasing component of it consists of tech companies with high amounts of intangibles, would having market values greatly exceeding book values be surprising?

2. So if market values are exceeding book values, are you saying that that represents capital that is not being invested? I'm not really sure if I understand the mechanism. Let's say we have 2 investors. The first investor buys a stock in a company in an IPO. After 1 year, the first investor then sells the stock to a second investor at an increased price. Are we saying that this transaction between the two investors results in less capital being invested?

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

The promise from the casino capitalists of making 1,000% or more drives capital into the casino and out of the market for actual investment.

3. Maybe I'm just really ignorant, but could you please provide an example of a 1000% return? Are we talking about derivatives here?

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

All of the speculative gain (mostly on a free ride on the taxpayer's back) increases the money supply - that is a massive pent up inflationary pressure that will crash the Greenback if and when it looses hegemony.

4. But if the money supply has already increased, why would it require the Greenback to lose hegemony in order for inflation to occur? If the value of money depends on the demand for money and the supply of money, then shouldn't we expect that the value of money will have decreased if the money supply has increased?

[cannuck]

9 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Maybe my understanding of this issue is too limited. Perhaps if we break this down into parts I can understand things better.

1. So, as I understand it, market value can exceed book value since the market value would capture intangibles and growth prospects. In an economy where an increasing component of it consists of tech companies with high amounts of intangibles, would having market values greatly exceeding book values be surprising?

2. So if market values are exceeding book values, are you saying that that represents capital that is not being invested? I'm not really sure if I understand the mechanism. Let's say we have 2 investors. The first investor buys a stock in a company in an IPO. After 1 year, the first investor then sells the stock to a second investor at an increased price. Are we saying that this transaction between the two investors results in less capital being invested?

3. Maybe I'm just really ignorant, but could you please provide an example of a 1000% return? Are we talking about derivatives here?

4. But if the money supply has already increased, why would it require the Greenback to lose hegemony in order for inflation to occur? If the value of money depends on the demand for money and the supply of money, then shouldn't we expect that the value of money will have decreased if the money supply has increased?

1.  I can see some marginal increment of this being valid, but when you have especially tech stocks trading at many, many times book value, the argument becomes nonsensical that such values have any relationship whatsoever to economic or accounting reality.  I am biting my tongue over bringing something REALLY ridiculous in such as Tesla, but I think you can get my drift.

2.  Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.  First, we need to recognize what my definition of "investment" would be:  i.e. the placement of capital into an entity for the purposes of adding value and creating wealth.  There are only two ways you can create wealth in an economy:  #1: add value to a resource and #2: deliver a service ins support of #1.  Anything else you do is merely re-distributing wealth, not creating it.  Once an IPO, PO or private placement is in place, the capital flow around the equity is no longer directed towards the actual company, but used merely to speculate on the value of said equity.   The Street has learned how to make not billions, but TRILLION$$$ by manipulating greed of its clients to play speculative games (i.e. casino capitalism - that is distinctly NOT capitalistic in my definition of investment.  What it is is an inflationary force, since all of the increase in money has to be facilitated by increasing the money supply.  In that vein, a country is somewhat like a country and has both a real and imagined finite value, and increasing the amount of money supply simply divides the value by the amount issued.  For most countries, that inflation is relatively real time, but in one very special case, the private member banks OWN the central bank of the largest economy in the world, and can dictate monetary and fiscal policy with abandon - mostly for their own benefit.   Bank/finance doubles money supply to cover 100% increase in digits due to speculative gain, central bank increased money supply to twice index, result would be drop in value of said currency relative to all others...except that every other country in the world holds trade accounts, debt and equity instruments, etc. all denominated in the currency of the hegemon.  Thus that currency starts to slide and every OTHER central bank on the planet has to rush in and prop it up - or get their value diminished proportionally.   Sweet deal if you can control and benefit from it - which would require owning and controlling the central bank and controlling monetary and fiscal policy...which they do.

The end result is that you drive "investment" money out of investing in the wealth creating component of the economy and into the speculative, wealth re-distribution component (i.e. the Casino).   That corrupts how and why IPOs are placed, no longer to fund productive increase in a company's book, but for players to cash in on the bloated value of a Street promoted play.  Watch Bumble:  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dating-app-bumble-preparing-6-005525985.html to see what I mean.   The $6-8 Bn "valuation" is all about the hedge funds, etc. cashing in on the speculative activity as clearly there is no need to fund a company that is already fully developed (and I assume profitable).  Not sure of its book value, but I doubt there is real $Bn anywhere in genuine equity.   All of that is what pulls money out of real investment.

Derivatives are yet another thing, but look at things such as book vs. market for anything that the Street hypes.  Microsoft being a good example.  Well over 10x https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/MSFT/fundamental/price-book-value#:~:text=About Price to Book Value,much a company is worth. and almost 15x = 1,500 %.   You need to consider that real wealth created and paid out as dividends as what SHOULD define value, but is down in the 10% range.   Pales by comparison with the 1,500 % of riding the speculative gain of a "winner".

Sorry for the rambling quick post, but have to get back to doing some more capitalist pig stuff.

[taxme]

15 hours ago, August1991 said:

Taxme, do you work? Have you looked at your CPP/EI  deductions?

These are federal Liberal taxes on working people. Trudeau Jnr has raised them!

=====

The GST only applies to consumers, people who buy - rich people. Mulroney was correct to create/impose the GST. 

All politicians of all political party's when in power are always raising taxes or creating new ones. It never ends with those thieves on top of all the fees and permits that we have to pay. Taxes stolen from pensioners is not so great either. You have a problem that you refuse to accept. We pay way too much taxes, we have way too much government, and way too many rules and regulations that stifle growth. Government "IS" the problem.  Trudeau is a thief and and a big bull chitter. 

"Rich people"?  The majority of the people in this country are not rich. Most of them are either in the so called middle class or the poor or unemployed thanks to this scamdemic hoax of a virus.  The only ones that are benefiting from this country are the rich. They can afford to pay all the taxes.  No way will you ever convince me that the GST was a good thing brought in by Bulroney. After all, he was a liberal in conservative clothing. Abolish the GST now. Works for me!!  

[August1991]

On 9/2/2020 at 4:03 PM, taxme said:

All politicians of all political party's when in power are always raising taxes or creating new ones. It never ends with those thieves on top of all the fees and permits that we have to pay.

...

I disagree.

IME, politicians (and people near them) typically like to spend other people's money.  Politicians like to tell other what to do.

[August1991]

On 9/2/2020 at 12:26 PM, cannuck said:

1.  I can see some marginal increment of this being valid, but when you have especially tech stocks trading at many, many times book value...

Can you guys get a room?

I understand that robinhood.com has made it easy for first year Linear/Econ students to trade but this thread is about Canadian politics.

[taxme]

On 9/4/2020 at 9:38 PM, August1991 said:

I disagree.

IME, politicians (and people near them) typically like to spend other people's money.  Politicians like to tell other what to do.

Just about all politicians and their bureaucrats enjoy spending and blowing taxpayer's tax dollars. It's in their DNA to do so and to try and hold onto power with taxpayer's tax dollars. They always promise that they will do a better job of handling taxpayer's tax dollars when elected but once they get elected they suddenly have memory problems and forget all about their promises. In reality politicians do not even work for we the people. They appear to be puppets on a string to the elite deep state globalists. And O'Toole will be no different. He will just be another tool for the globalists to use to screw us all. It will be business as usual in Canada with O'Toole at the helm. Just saying. 

[August1991]

12 hours ago, taxme said:

Just about all politicians and their bureaucrats enjoy spending and blowing taxpayer's tax dollars. It's in their DNA to do so and to try and hold onto power with taxpayer's tax dollars. They always promise that they will do a better job of handling taxpayer's tax dollars when elected but once they get elected they suddenly have memory problems and forget all about their promises. In reality politicians do not even work for we the people. They appear to be puppets on a string to the elite deep state globalists. And O'Toole will be no different. He will just be another tool for the globalists to use to screw us all. It will be business as usual in Canada with O'Toole at the helm. Just saying. 

You lost me at "globalist".

The Brit/American guys who fought in WWII - heck, the guys who fought in Vietnam - wanted a world where people could live as freely as they did.

Russian guys in WWII? They were fighting for their life. (American guys? Never, ever forget that until June 1941, socialist Stalin was an ally of Hitler. Every time that you meet a Russian, ask them when the "Patriotic War" started.)

=====

The Russian guys won WWII but the Brit/American guys won the Cold War.

We are all better off because of "globalism". Nowadays, people are free to go where they want, be what they are, marry who they want. Only North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba are remnants of the past - on the dustbin of history.

Covid is a hiccup. If the Brit/American (French/Polish/Australian/Canadian/NZ...)  guys who died in WWII could see this "globalist" world, they would be proud of what they did.

Edited September 7, 2020 by August1991

[taxme]

16 hours ago, August1991 said:

You lost me at "globalist".

The Brit/American guys who fought in WWII - heck, the guys who fought in Vietnam - wanted a world where people could live as freely as they did.

Russian guys in WWII? They were fighting for their life. (American guys? Never, ever forget that until June 1941, socialist Stalin was an ally of Hitler. Every time that you meet a Russian, ask them when the "Patriotic War" started.)

=====

The Russian guys won WWII but the Brit/American guys won the Cold War.

We are all better off because of "globalism". Nowadays, people are free to go where they want, be what they are, marry who they want. Only North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba are remnants of the past - on the dustbin of history.

Covid is a hiccup. If the Brit/American (French/Polish/Australian/Canadian/NZ...)  guys who died in WWII could see this "globalist" world, they would be proud of what they did.

"Sure they would be proud". My arse they would be. Covid is no hiccup but a planned exercise scamdemic. Thanks to Covid we have all lost plenty of freedom of movement and speech. I am pretty sure that this is not what our soldiers died for. Remember that it is not we the people who start wars, it is the globalist deep state bankster elite. Hello? Anybody home? 

 

[-1=e^ipi]

I saw a random tweet by Andrew Coyne of a O'Toole advertisement and it just reminded me how awful O'Toole can be.

1. This guy is a protectionist who wants to have "industrial policy", get out of trade agreements and have mass central planning of the economy. He literally calls free trade the result of 'big government' and says this unironically, as though the government putting up trade restrictions and tariffs counts as 'small government'. In his platform he mentioned wanting government funded greenhouses in Canada. Does this mean he plans to have state funded banana and orange plantations in greenhouses in Canada?
2. As foreign affairs critic, one of O'Tooles 'big criticisms' of Trudeau, specifically when Saudi Arabia was angry at the Trudeau government for offering mild criticism of the Saudi government's treatment of women, was that Trudeau shouldn't publicly criticize regimes like Saudi Arabia or the Communist Party of Canada. O'Toole gets the criticism completely wrong. The problem with Trudeau's foreign policy is that he sucks up to authoritarian regimes too much.

I think that O'Toole might be worse than Scheer (who was in turn worse than Harper due to Scheer's worship of the dairy cartel).

[dialamah]

Watched a brief interview with O'Toole, he made it clear he supports environmental policy.  This was on CBC, so was he lying for the "leftists"?  

[August1991]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:02 PM, taxme said:

"Sure they would be proud". My arse they would be. Covid is no hiccup but a planned exercise scamdemic. Thanks to Covid we have all lost plenty of freedom of movement and speech. I am pretty sure that this is not what our soldiers died for. Remember that it is not we the people who start wars, it is the globalist deep state bankster elite. Hello? Anybody home? 

 

Taxme, by any measure, ordinary people live in a far better world now (2020) than in (1920).

Why?

Men born around 1920 defeated the Nazis and then men born later defeated the Soviet Communists.

America won the Cold War. For the good of us all.

=====

The US Constitution was designed to be changed/criticised. Go for it.

 

[August1991]

2 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

I saw a random tweet by Andrew Coyne of a O'Toole advertisement and it just reminded me how awful O'Toole can be.

.... is guy is a protectionist who wants to have "industrial policy", get out of trade agreements and have mass central planning of the economy. He literally calls free trade the result of 'big government' and says this unironically, as though the government putting up trade restrictions and tariffs counts as 'small government'. In his platform he mentioned wanting government funded greenhouses in Canada. Does this mean he plans to have state funded banana and orange plantations in greenhouses in Canada?

1. As foreign affairs critic, one of O'Tooles 'big criticisms' of Trudeau, specifically when Saudi Arabia was angry at the Trudeau government for offering mild criticism of the Saudi government's treatment of women, was that Trudeau shouldn't publicly criticize regimes like Saudi Arabia or the Communist Party of Canada. O'Toole gets the criticism completely wrong. The problem with Trudeau's foreign policy is that he sucks up to authoritarian regimes too much.

I think that O'Toole might be worse than Scheer (who was in turn worse than Harper due to Scheer's worship of the dairy cartel).

Compared to Trudeau Jnr and Gerald Butts?

Or the NDP?

Or the BQ?

====

In federal Canada today, this is our alternative. I reckon that O'Toole is a civilised leader for all Canadians. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Hey, slick new format!

I like O’Toole’s story, e.g. military service, ordinary background, calm temperament, and appointing the two stars who didn’t run, Rempel and Polievre, to key portfolios makes sense too. I do not like the video above. Conservatives should not be railing about ‘elites’ (although, thankfully, Erin isn’t a great railer) and getting NAFTA signed again was a great relief to any sensible person in the country. Even without China, manufacturing jobs were going to be lost to automation and the oil sector’s problems are not confined to Canada. Yes, there are serious challenges ahead but let’s have some confidence, from a Tory leader of all people, that Canadians will continue to succeed as our economy evolves. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

In summary, the video has a defeatist, Trumpian flavour. We are talented enough to do well through free trade, as we have in the past, and trading blocs offer a key to containing PRC aggression in a non-violent way.

Edited September 10, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[taxme]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:30 PM, August1991 said:

Taxme, by any measure, ordinary people live in a far better world now (2020) than in (1920).

Why?

Men born around 1920 defeated the Nazis and then men born later defeated the Soviet Communists.

America won the Cold War. For the good of us all.

=====

The US Constitution was designed to be changed/criticised. Go for it.

 

Of course we all live in a somewhat better world today. But things have changed a lot since this Covid hoax came along. Do you feel any freer today than what you did six months ago? I certainly do not. The forced shutdowns/lockdowns, the wearing of a face diaper mask and social distancing have all contributed to taking my freedoms away. 

The US Constitution was not designed to be changed, altered or criticized. It was a great piece of work created by the founders of America. The democrats are trying to change the constitution. Everything they have done today so far is contrary to the rules and regulations of the constitution. Everything that the dumbocrats have done to try and get Trump on something has violated the constitution. The democratic party has now become an anti-American political socialist party who only exist today to get Trump. That is all their American supporting MSM does is attack Trump. 

Men have not defeated Chinese communism yet. Nor North Korea or Cuba.  The world is no better off today having those communist countries around. As long as they are around our freedoms are in jeopardy. China being the worse to fear. 

Will O'Toole be any better than Teflon Don Trudeau? Nope. O'Toole is just a globalist man like kid Trudeau and that says it all. It will be business as usual in Canada except that there will just be another globalist puppet running the Canadian rigged game show. A rigged game show that you will never be invited to play in.

But hey, dream on if you think that O'Toole will be changing anything if he wins the next election. The three things that I have not heard out of O'Toole's mouth yet is that he is all for lowering taxes, lowering big government, and giving back most of the freedoms that the other fool took or has tried to take away. Just saying. 

[August1991]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

Of course we all live in a somewhat better world today.

"Of course?" WTF?

Taxme, did this "better world" magically occur?

=====

This world - Hitler/Stalin/Socialist - could have easily gone sideways, and become fu**-up Venezuela or even a dinosaur cemetery.

So far, meteors aside, we're sustainable. We've dodged a bullet.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 8/29/2020 at 11:45 PM, August1991 said:

Mulroney's GST is a remarkably fair/good tax. You buy, you pay tax.

Compare it with the federal Liberal payroll CPP/EI "taxes". You work, you're taxed. 

They either get it coming in or get it coming out.  WTF is the difference?

Edited September 12, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:23 PM, -1=e^ipi said:

As foreign affairs critic, one of O'Tooles 'big criticisms' of Trudeau, specifically when Saudi Arabia was angry at the Trudeau government for offering mild criticism of the Saudi government's treatment of women, was that Trudeau shouldn't publicly criticize regimes like Saudi Arabia or the Communist Party of Canada.

Freudian slip.

[-1=e^ipi]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Freudian slip.

Thank you for catching my typo. I meant the Communist Party of China.

[taxme]

19 hours ago, August1991 said:

"Of course?" WTF?

Taxme, did this "better world" magically occur?

=====

This world - Hitler/Stalin/Socialist - could have easily gone sideways, and become fu**-up Venezuela or even a dinosaur cemetery.

So far, meteors aside, we're sustainable. We've dodged a bullet.

The world has always been "fu**-up" since time began. Thousands of years of wars, famine and poverty and we are still living all of those today. The world is no better today than it was thousands of years ago. Just different evil world players still playing this war and crime against humanity. O'Toole will never change any of it. When one bends the knee and kisses the globalist ring like O'Toole will be doing the world can never become a better world. It's all about the money, honey.  

We have dodged many bullets thanks to alternative media who always try to promote the other side of the story. The story that the lying MSM and our lying comrade politicians do not want us to know or hear about. This convid hoax is just one more prime example of one big lying hoax and which many like myself are trying to dodge that fraud of a hoax. 

[taxme]

15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

They either get it coming in or get it coming out.  WTF is the difference?

There is no difference. Our dear comrade leaders will always get their taxes one way or the other. I am surprised that our dear comrade leaders have not yet found a way to tax us for swimming or running yet? Some things are still free!! But they may be just working on that right now? After all, the thieves in Ottawa are always looking for more money to blow. There is nothing we can do for entertainment or buy today that is not taxed. Taxes are just like chit. They are all over the bloody place. 

[Michael Hardner]

Straight from 'False choice news' ...