The failure of the western intelligence services

[Independent1986]

This topic is to discuss where did the western intelligence agencies failed in regards to the coronavirus pandemic ?

Nancy Pelosi said "Come to China Town" and Donald Trump said "It is a democrat hoax". In 1 week both of them were talking about how to shut down the country.

Do you blame the coronavirus spread on the western intelligence services ?

[Moonlight Graham]

Intelligence knew what was going on.  Trump and Trudeau were too moronic to act on the information competently.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[WestCanMan]

Out of the things that we can have some influence on, I mostly blame the coronavirus spread on the uselessness of the WHO (obviously there's nothing we can do about the deceit of the Chinese govt so there's no point in "blaming" them). America followed part of their program, we followed it to the letter in Canada.

Investigating and monitoring things like covid is what the WHO is in existence for. 

Why do we need the WHO if what we really need to do is have spies in every corner of the globe to investigate and monitor things like covid?

They didn't just give bad advice, or a bit of it, everything that they said was extremely bad advice to the point of being criminal.

Honestly, the CNN toadies here would be having a lock up Trump orgy if a covid outbreak started in NYC and then Trump told the rest of the world "Let our NYers travel to your countries or you're racist! Don't wear masks! H2H transmission of the disease isn't happening!"

 

[Independent1986]

@Moonlight Graham

Oh Ok ? You have sources inside CSIS or the CIA ? Why do people react always to defend the CIA and these intelligence companies ? they are humans and they make mistakes and this is a big one.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Independent1986

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Why do people react always to defend the CIA and these intelligence companies ? they are humans and they make mistakes and this is a big one.

Don't forget Trump and his sycophants were all busily attacking the CIA and other US intelligence agencies as being part and parcel of the Deepstate just before this pandemic broke out.  Perhaps being human people inside the Deepstate said  "Shhh lets just be quiet and let this one blow up in Trump's face".  That would be the American way for sure.

As I've said in other threads this virus is a disease on a malaise.  Our society and its politics are like a human with a compromised immune system, neither do well in the face of COVID-19.

Edited April 18, 2020 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Don't forget Trump, ERGO his sycophants, were all busily attacking the CIA and other US intelligence agencies as being part and parcel of the Deepstate just before this pandemic broke out.  Perhaps being human people inside the Deepstate said  "Shhh lets just be quiet and let this one blow up in Trump's face".  That would be the American way for sure.

 

Never forgotten in Canada by those who think American alphabet soup matters more than their own domestic agencies.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

Intelligence services have not prioritized emerging health threats - it's down the list of what they do. Likewise WHO is involved in a multitude of projects and, in addition, depends on the goodwill and co-operation of sovereign governments. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Why do we need the WHO if what we really need to do is have spies in every corner of the globe to investigate and monitor things like covid?

The 'we' here is Canada? I can see this project getting a lot of Canadian travellers, and probably innocent locals too, into a whole load of trouble. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Never forgotten in Canada by those who think American alphabet soup matters more than their own domestic agencies.  

It matters as much when we're aligned by treaty and agreement even more so with disagreeable deadbeats like America.

[eyeball]

12 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Intelligence services have not prioritized emerging health threats - it's down the list of what they do. Likewise WHO is involved in a multitude of projects and, in addition, depends on the goodwill and co-operation of sovereign governments. 

Nonetheless it appears the threats down that list were identified and if getting word of those threats into the hands of people who could have acted sooner than they did but didn't because of other priorities...worrying about the WHO and its affiliations are a great distraction from that.

Edited April 18, 2020 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Nonetheless it appears the threats down that list were identified and if getting word of those threats into the hands of people who could have acted sooner than they did but didn't because of other priorities...worrying about the WHO and its affiliations are a great distraction from that.

 

It is obvious what Trudeau's priorities were...getting that coveted UNSC seat that he thinks Canada needs so badly.

I hope he gets it after all this trouble...I really do.  

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

@Moonlight Graham

Oh Ok ? You have sources inside CSIS or the CIA ? Why do people react always to defend the CIA and these intelligence companies ? they are humans and they make mistakes and this is a big one.

We don't know what happened, other than Trump and Trudeau reacting slowly to the info they were given that was publicly available.  Even if they knew sooner than the public via 5 Eyes, they still didn't react.  Public or private info, they effed up.

[Shady]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Intelligence knew what was going on.  Trump and Trudeau were too moronic to act on the information competently.

I disagree.  There’s no way intelligence agencies knew the extent of what was going on.

[Moonlight Graham]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

It is obvious what Trudeau's priorities were...getting that coveted UNSC seat that he thinks Canada needs so badly.

I hope he gets it after all this trouble...I really do.  

When kissing arse to dictators costs Canadian lives.  Good on ya Justin!  A globalist POS.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

Oh Ok ? You have sources inside CSIS or the CIA ? Why do people react always to defend the CIA and these intelligence companies ? they are humans and they make mistakes and this is a big one.

 

CSIS and the CIA are two very different things.    CSIS is far less capable of countering any nation, let alone China.

Intelligence gathering and analysis is far different from direction to take action(s) by government.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

We don't know what happened, other than Trump and Trudeau reacting slowly to the info they were given that was publicly available.  Even if they knew sooner than the public via 5 Eyes, they still didn't react.  Public or private info, they effed up.

 

What did you expect them to do ?    What actionable intelligence was there and what could/would they have done about it ?

 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

14 minutes ago, Shady said:

I disagree.  There’s no way intelligence agencies knew the extent of what was going on.

What does it matter.  We're rotting from the inside anyways.

During WWII, Canada set up internment camps for Canadians of Japanese, German, Austrian, and Italian origin, for those considered a possible national security threat.  Of course, you only hear about the Japanese camps, and we apologized and gave the families 300 million in compensation.  IT WAS AN EXISTENTIAL TOTAL WAR.

Now we hesitate to ban travel to China "cuz ma feelings".  All of the intelligence in the world doesn't mean jack when the decision-makers dither and roll over on their backs.

Darwinism:  Adapt or die.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

What did you expect them to do ?    What actionable intelligence was there and what could/would they have done about it ?

Stop travel ASAP, force travelers to self-isolate, don't let the wife of the PM go to the UK on March 4th.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Stop travel ASAP, force travelers to self-isolate, don't let the wife of the PM go to the UK on March 4th.

 

Stop all travel in November or December ?   What about Canadians' Charter rights to return home ?  

[eyeball]

30 minutes ago, Shady said:

I disagree.  There’s no way intelligence agencies knew the extent of what was going on.

And how could you possibly know that?

[Moonlight Graham]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Stop all travel in November or December ?   What about Canadians' Charter rights to return home ?  

No, how about in February, or early March even?

[Guest ProudConservative]

Frank Vaughan predicted all of this on January 27th. I escaped Toronto on March 2nd thank to him. I haven't had to deal with lines to get in grocery stores, or nowhere to go outside. I go boating every day. I did a 5 kilometer walk in the woods today. No ones around. Feels more like a vacation.

Edited April 18, 2020 by ProudConservative

[bush_cheney2004]

11 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

No, how about in February, or early March even?

 

Most politicians will not act until after the fact (too late).    Trump did act on China in late January and was accused of being "waycist" for doing so.

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nonetheless it appears the threats down that list were identified and if getting word of those threats into the hands of people who could have acted sooner than they did but didn't because of other priorities...worrying about the WHO and its affiliations are a great distraction from that.

With all the fake news these days, it's a little unreasonable to jump and hit the roof every time someone yells "fire". But hey, your hindsight is always so wonderful and wise.
/S

[Michael Hardner]

Hindsight is a pervasive problem.

Do we all think that even if Trudeau had advocated a lockdown a month earlier, Kenney and Ford would have fallen in line?