The Coronavirus

[dialamah]

Unsuccesful immunity experiment with Covid-19.

Tldr:  A Russian doctor, 69 years old, caught Covid and had mild symptoms.  Curious, he had himself tested for antibodies and found that by six months, no more antibodies were found.

Still curious, he deliberately exposed himself to the virus, and the second infection was much worse.  

Pushing for "herd immunity" is irresponsible, especially when we don't know if immunity lasts more than 6 months

Edited October 29, 2020 by dialamah
Spelling

[Cannucklehead]

Congrats to the u.s. in setting a new record.  I know you can break 100k daily if you really try.  

[Boges]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:17 AM, Cannucklehead said:

Congrats to the u.s. in setting a new record.  I know you can break 100k daily if you really try.  

More cases in one day than the entire province of Ontario has seen through the entire pandemic. 

It's actually quite pathetic. It's as if they saw that Europe was beating them in Per capita cases per day and said "Hold my Beer". 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

Compliance with testing is a wild-card in this game.

[OftenWrong]

On 10/29/2020 at 12:50 PM, dialamah said:

Unsuccesful immunity experiment with Covid-19.

Tldr:  A Russian doctor, 69 years old, caught Covid and had mild symptoms.  Curious, he had himself tested for antibodies and found that by six months, no more antibodies were found.

the latest news on this came out just before you posted your disinformation article. One-off cases reported by the Vancouver Sun don't matter. Around here we go with the science. These are from established studies, not some Russian.

Long-Lasting Immunity Follows Serious COVID Cases

WebMD, Oct 13
The findings were published online Oct. 8 in the journal Science Immunology.

Stop spreading such fear-mongering lies.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

the latest news on this came out just before you posted your disinformation article. One-off cases reported by the Vancouver Sun don't matter. Around here we go with the science. These are from established studies, not some Russian.

Long-Lasting Immunity Follows Serious COVID Cases

WebMD, Oct 13
The findings were published online Oct. 8 in the journal Science Immunology.

*sigh*

Your article specifies 4 months.  My article says 6 months.  They are saying essentially the same thing.

Anyway, it's early days yet - both articles may be right or wrong, but until we know more, it's irresponsible to suggest herd immunity is a good idea.

[OftenWrong]

Six months immunity is pretty long-lasting. The virus doesn't appear to mutate that quickly.

We have barely been studying it for 6 months. It has only been about 6 months since the outbreak seriously began, ok, 6-8 months, just to give a sense of how little we know that is vettable.

Stop reacting to the daily news.

 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Six months immunity is pretty long-lasting. The virus doesn't appear to mutate that quickly.

So, people should be ok getting Covid every six months, or so? 

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

We have barely been studying it for 6 months. It has only been about 6 months since the outbreak seriously began, ok, 6-8 months, just to give a sense of how little we know that is vettable.

Exactly what I have been saying.  When one doesn't know exactly what one is dealing with, caution is a better path than claiming it's "no worse than the flu", or that "hardly anyone dies" or advocating for "protecting the vulnerable, so the rest of us can go get sick, miss weeks or months of work, possibly become permanently disabled, or perhaps die."

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Stop reacting to the daily news.

Stop hiding your head in the sand.

[OftenWrong]

Theresa May opposes the new UK shutdown.

Quote

During a three-hour debate, Conservative rebels - and several Labour MPs from the north-west of England - said England's tiered system, brought in two weeks ago, had not been given a chance.

Mr Johnson's predecessor as prime minister, Theresa May, said: "The evidence is, from Liverpool, that cases are falling."

Mrs May was among 19 Conservatives to abstain, including six MPs from Scottish seats, who did not want to take part in the vote as it applied to England only.

She criticised Labour's call for a short, "circuit breaker" lockdown as impractical - but accused Mr Johnson of choosing data to fit his coronavirus policies.

The lockdown decision was "to some extent based on the prediction of 4,000 deaths a day," said the former PM, but that figure had already been proved "wrong".

"For many people it looks as if the figures are chosen to support the policy, rather than the policy being based on the figures.

"We need these proper analyses. We need to know the details behind these models."

Covid-19 'Failed strategy' (BBC News)

 

[OftenWrong]

This is what it does to people. But hey, as long as you people feel safe.

Calls to Kids Help Phone have surged

Demand for Kids Help Phone's services has been on the rise, with calls and text messages surging since the COVID-19 pandemic began.

[dialamah]

Interesting study of Covid in Brazil, where herd immunity is apparently the goal of Balsonaro.

More women get the disease, but more men die from it.  Younger people die at a higher rate in Brazil than they do in other countries - no explanation is given for this in the paper.

Regional Covid-19 Mortality in Brazil by Age - OSF

Anyway, Brazil is only led by the US in number of cases at 163,000, so anyone who is interested can track how well herd immunity works at saving lives - and the economy. 

Although apparently Bolsonaro is spending like a mad Trudeau, so his people don't get too pissed off about his lack of response to Covid19.   Here, "herd immunity" = way more death + 12% of GDP + 5% economic contraction.    Hmmmm... 

[Argus]

South Korea has had only a few hundred deaths. That's because its government saw what was coming, planned, and took immediate action starting in January. It did what Canada has so far been utterly incapable of doing; it did massive testing, contact tracing, and then isolated those with the virus. And it continues to do it. Meanwhile, Canada stands bewildered, throwing its hands in the air, utterly without a single idea of how to cope. Almost no contact tracing. A ham-handed testing system that often takes days to produce results, and little enforcement of isolation rules. All we're left with is shutting down our economy in hopes that helps - while South Korea's economy booms.

It isn't all the government's fault. Canada is not the Canada of my youth, where people respected and trusted government, and felt a sense of cultural community where cooperation was mandatory. Now it's full of easily outraged people who are suspicious of everything the government does, and outright refuse to cooperate in contact tracing, masking, social distancing, or even download an app loaded down with guarantees of personal privacy. Canadians are literally willing to see thousands die in order to defend against the fear the government might find out what restaurants we go to.

Frankly, this country deserves to go bankrupt. The entire West has proven itself to be inept, uneducated, ignorant, and backward. It seems Asia is the new home of the title 'first world' while Canada and the West sink back into the mire of our own aggressive ignorance.

https://www.city-journal.org/the-south-korean-covid-lesson

[Boges]

Well there goes that talking point for people who think Sweden dealt with COVID-19 the correct way. 

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/lockdown-u-turn-in-sweden-as-covid-19-cases-soar-and-herd-immunity-hopes-falter

Quote

 

On Monday, Sweden’s prime minister Stefan Löfven obliged, announcing much stricter coronavirus measures to dampen the surge in cases and deaths.

Sweden is to limit gatherings in the country to a maximum of eight people, in what Lofven described as “an extremely interventionist measure which has no equivalent in modern times”.

The harsher measures begin on November 24:

The limit on public gatherings is cut from 50 people to eight and applies to events such as concerts and sports matches. Those arranging public events exceeding eight people now face fines or even imprisonment.

Restaurants are restricted to a maximum of eight diners per table.

Schools, workplaces, and private gatherings are exempt from the ban but Löfven urged Swedes to adhere to the new eight-person limit.

 

The gathering limit in Ontario is 10. So they've gone farther. 

With a population of 11 million. They're seeing worse numbers comparable to the state of Florida with more than 4,000 cases a day and more than 15 deaths each day. 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:32 AM, Boges said:

Well there goes that talking point for people who think Sweden dealt with COVID-19 the correct way. 

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/lockdown-u-turn-in-sweden-as-covid-19-cases-soar-and-herd-immunity-hopes-falter

The gathering limit in Ontario is 10. So they've gone farther. 

With a population of 11 million. They're seeing worse numbers comparable to the state of Florida with more than 4,000 cases a day and more than 15 deaths each day. 

 

Maybe before spreading fear and misinformation, you should give the whole story. Yes they have a resurgence of infections. What that says is, these measures with masks and social distancing are only minimally effective. Their infections are no worse, and arguably a bit better than other EU countries, if we use them as comparator.

Yet Sweden's lockdown method was much softer than many other western nations. What does it tell you? Those harsh methods do not give a substantive return.

On the other hand, number of deaths per day in Sweden is in the range of only 10-20 per day now. During summer it dropped to 0 - 4 per day, typically.

This is a far more important metric than number of infections, which it seems no nation can control. How are they accomplishing it? Nothing magical. They are trying to prevent deaths where the statistics show, among elderly.

This battle against COVID-19 is not so much a fight against a virus, as it is to keep the statistics under control so that COVID-19 meatheads do not shut our society down and cause the greater harm.

ETA:

Link to Sweden data, so you can check out the graph on daily deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Edited November 19, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Argus]

So today Trudeau warns that because Canada has no production facilities we'll be getting the vaccines later than other countries. Right after that comes an interview with a scientist who says that in fact we DO have production facilities. We largely produce our own flu vaccines, for example, as well as rabies vaccines. In addition to a variety of pharmaceutical companies here who make mainly no name drugs there's a government facility in Montreal which has made vaccines with the same technology as the Atrazeneca vaccine. Astrazeneca has licensed production of the vaccine in a variety of other countries, from Brazil to Australia, India and Japan. But Canada hasn't bothered.

This is from may, detailing some of the above.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/covid-19-crisis-prompts-federal-government-to-look-at-boosting-vaccine-production-capacity

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Argus

[Infidel Dog]

I don't imagine you'll be hearing about the CDC downgrading actual deaths from the Chi-Comm virus down from 200,000 in the US to 10,000:

CDC Quietly Admits That Less than 10,000 Really Died from COVID-19

Quote

The media is in love with the idea that 200,000 Americans have died of COVID-19, but last weekend the CDC drastically downgraded the number of deaths and noted that in truth less than 10,000 died solely of the virus.

As it turns out, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website recently reported that very few died solely of the virus. Out of the 161,392 deaths in the CDC data, just six percent (9,700) were attributed to the coronavirus alone. In all the rest of the deaths, COVID was either only one contributor to death or was merely present in the system at the end.

 

[dialamah]

21 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I don't imagine you'll be hearing about the CDC downgrading actual deaths from the Chi-Comm virus down from 200,000 in the US to 10,000:

CDC Quietly Admits That Less than 10,000 Really Died from COVID-19

 

In the same vein:  

few people have died of the flu; it's noted as only a contributing factor or was merely present when the patient died of other causes; 

few people have died from actual car accidents; the major cause of death is blunt force trauma, of which the car accident itself is only a contributing factor;

The fact that these people would have lived had they not caught the flu or been in a car accident is irrelevant, since neither car accidents nor the flu actually kill very many people.

/s

 

[Infidel Dog]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

few people have died of the flu; it's noted as only a contributing factor or was merely present when the patient died of other causes; 

Not only that but there's a vaccine for the flu. Two things to consider when you're comparing flu death numbers to Covid's.

Also in America and possibly in Canada there are financial perks for listing Covid as the cause of death. Same thing for the flu?  Show me. I don't believe you.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[dialamah]

32 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

there are financial perks for listing Covid as the cause of death.

I don't believe you.  

Quote

As for the suggestion that there is an overcount of COVID-19 cases, "the data has suggested that, in fact, there’s a significant undercount of deaths due to COVID," Jennifer Kates, the Kaiser Family Foundation’s director of global health & HIV policy, told PolitiFact.

 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, dialamah said:

In the same vein:  

few people have died of the flu; it's noted as only a contributing factor or was merely present when the patient died of other causes; 

few people have died from actual car accidents; the major cause of death is blunt force trauma, of which the car accident itself is only a contributing factor;

The fact that these people would have lived had they not caught the flu or been in a car accident is irrelevant, since neither car accidents nor the flu actually kill very many people.

/s

 

Yep.  No-one has ever died from a fall.  Only stopping at the end of the fall.

[Infidel Dog]

Really?

15 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't believe you.  

 

I get it. You'd like me to take claims from Facebook censors fact-checkers, and global leftist - or as the leftist Wikipedia calls them "non-partisan" - think tank's opinions over all other contradicting facts. BTW you forgot to link to what you're calling "the data." Or was that just something some corporate shill said to Politifact.

And when I said I don't believe you, it was clear I was referring to any claim that the same perks available for registering covid claims of death were enforced with flu. 

Instead you offer me a 'nothing to see here' strawman suggesting the perks for registering deaths as Covid deaths are no big deal.

If you want to get technical pneumonia kills more than covid and the flu combined. Perhaps we should shut down the economy permanently by going to permanent lockdown and "cure" pneumonia. Wouldn't surprise me if there's a permanent mask mandate just to show they can. Peons need to learn who's in control.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

I don't imagine you'll be hearing about the CDC downgrading actual deaths from the Chi-Comm virus down from 200,000 in the US to 10,000:

CDC Quietly Admits That Less than 10,000 Really Died from COVID-19

Co-Morbidities contribute to all medical deaths. Why should they be disregarded when considering how dangerous COVID-19 is? 

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

If you want to get technical pneumonia kills more than covid and the flu combined. Perhaps we should shut down the economy permanently by going to permanent lockdown and "cure" pneumonia. Wouldn't surprise me if there's a permanent mask mandate just to show they can. Peons need to learn who's in control.

I'm sure you're fully aware that Pneumonia is not a communicable disease. 

[Infidel Dog]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

I'm sure you're fully aware that Pneumonia is not a communicable disease. 

Is the flu. Is Covid. See, cause I keep hearing covid and flu patients die from pneumonia a lot.

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Is the flu. Is Covid. See, cause I keep hearing covid and flu patients die from pneumonia a lot.

Seems more-so from COVID-19. 

Cite instances where hospitalizations reach the saturation point they have, for the run-of-the-mill flu. Both in the US and in Canada.