The Coronavirus

[Boges]

As discussed with OftenWrong. Hospitalization is the most important stat because if the Hospitals are full of COVID-19 patients, even if they may recover, it's taxing the system at large. 

Meaning if you get in a car accident, have a heart attack, break a bone, anything that required a visit to a Hospital, you may get a diminished level of care because the Hospital is overwhelmed with COVID patients. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Boges

[Infidel Dog]

Looks like that was 700 per 100,000 last week. (I'd suspect most of those would be in Ontario)

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html

You'd like to shut down the country for that, would you?

I hear we're getting much better at dealing with the Chi-Comm. Therapeutics and such.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Boges]

15 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Looks like that was 700 per 100,000 last week. (I'd suspect most of those would be in Ontario)

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html

You'd like to shut down the country for that, would you?

It's not shut down. Take a look at traffic, people are still going to work.  Peel and Toronto, where 2/3s of the cases are coming from have something resembling a shutdown, but that just effects certain businesses. 

FTR: I don't support closing retail as long as limits are put in and mask mandates are in place. 

The culprit for spread is people that continue to have large private indoor gatherings. 

Quote

I hear we're getting much better at dealing with the Chi-Comm. Therapeutics and such.

That's done a lot of good in the US. Deaths are as high as they've every been. Also as noted, if you're in the Hospital it doesn't matter if treatment and prognosis is better than it was in April, you're taking up resources and hurting care standards for people suffering from other ailments. 

[Infidel Dog]

American Thanksgiving (November 26) does appear to have doubled the deaths from the days before the last two days. I'll give you that.

I'm not sure what a superspreader event proves about therapeutics though and it still isn't going to affect my Christmas plans.

The Chinese and their progressive allies were able to kill Halloween. They won't get Christmas.

I wear masks and social distance when required. I'm still against full on lockdowns like what some politicians push for. I think that city in Ontario that was fining people for walking alone down a beach was dumb. And that Ontario mayor who fined people for gathering while he broke the rules at his city's ice hockey rink having pickup games with his buddies was a crook. So were Pelosi, California Governor Newsom, the Democrat mayor of Chicago, Lori Lightfoot, and the Husband of the Michigan Governor. I don't get the impression the guys making the rules are as terrified of the Chi-Comm as they want us to be.

[Infidel Dog]

Also when talking about American stats, remember this:

Quote

Dr. Deborah Birx in America stated during a press conference in April that “…if someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.”

https://rairfoundation.com/warning-renowned-virologist-sucharit-bhakdi-warns-against-hastily-created-gene-altering-coronavirus-vaccine-video/

They could also have the flu. It's flu season. You just don't hear about it because the stats don't pick most of it up. Flu stats are often buried in the Covid stats.

Quote

(CNN)As doctors worry about a coronavirus-and-flu "twin-demic" that could overwhelm the health care system, Americans must contend with another possibility: fighting both viruses at the same time.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/health/covid-flu-together-health-impact/index.html

[Infidel Dog]

I'm watching a fascinating video right now. It's one of those 3 panelist things from Bill Whittle:

COVID-19 Bounty? Is Pandemic Death Count Skewed by Medicare Reimbursement Bonus?

I'll give you the claims as I come across them. 

* A new study from John Hopkins said the death count was not increasing significantly but that study was disappeared.

* 85% of the patients that died from Covid 19 had a do not resuscitate order.

* According to the CDC 94% of American Covid deaths had 2.6 co-morbidities attached to them.

* Hospitals charged medicare 3 times as much for a disease requiring ventilators when there was a shortage of ventilators. Since that time the Trump team assisting the private sector vastly increased the amount of ventilators. Triple-charging however continued.

* Medicare is paying a 20% add-on for payment of the treatment of Covid-19 patients. (They address the leftist "fact-checker," Politifact's counter-claims on that one).

So according to Bill and crew here's what happened:

 At the beginning somebody came out with a model that said 87% of Americans would be infected and 2 million would die from the Chi-Comm. So the hospitals were ordered to shut down the elective surgeries they were making their money from. At the same time Government offered incentives for Covid deaths. So to get the money they needed to operate the hospitals took the incentive money. As a result somebody might fall of a ladder or get hit by a bus but get registered as a covid death.

Bill calls it a feedback loop of stupidity where people are being protected from good news like the John Hopkins study.

To put it another way, American covid death count statistics can't be trusted. They're crap.

 

 

 

[OftenWrong]

Obstinate Sweden have set themselves on a railroad straight to hell.

Reuters
Sweden says no need for face masks

Quote

“Face masks may be needed in some situations. Those situations have not arisen in Sweden yet, according to our dialogue with the (healthcare) regions,” Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, told a news conference on Thursday.

“WHO is clear that the state of evidence for masks is weak. All studies so far suggest that it is much more important to keep your distance than to have a face mask,” he said.

He also raised the same observation as me and cannuck. Facemasks give the public a false sense of security, because in reality they do not much of value at all. Sweden's COVID-19 data demonstrates this.

[Boges]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:09 AM, OftenWrong said:

Obstinate Sweden have set themselves on a railroad straight to hell.

Reuters
Sweden says no need for face masks

He also raised the same observation as me and cannuck. Facemasks give the public a false sense of security, because in reality they do not much of value at all. Sweden's COVID-19 data demonstrates this.

Sweden has also called for strict public gathering restriction and has more/less the same daily rate of cases as Canada despite being less than a third the size, per capita. 

[Boges]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:24 PM, Infidel Dog said:

To put it another way, American covid death count statistics can't be trusted. They're crap.

What about Hospitalization data? 

The fact that Co-Morbidities are a contributing factor in the COVID-19 death, doesn't mean that death isn't a concern. 

For example, note Rudy. He has it, he's old and probably has Co-Morbidities. Ditto with Trump. They were both hospitalized for a time. If a large percentage of people at a certain age that get the disease have to be hospitalized that creates a cascading effect that paralyzes Healthcare. 

So when 20-year-old gets in a car accident and needs emergency Healthcare, the system is strained and they get diminished care. 

So you get what's happening in some mid-western states currently, happened in Spain and Italy in the Spring and Happened in Sunbelt states in the Summer. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Boges

[Infidel Dog]

This second wave seems to be hitting the mid-west now. Now, we're hearing the same hysterical cries that there won't be enough beds that we heard with the first wave. Those happened in the Democrat cities where leadership like Pelosi and de de Blasio were first telling everybody to come out into the streets and enjoy, and if you didn't want to you were a racist. Then rather than use the mega-bed hospital ship Trump sent him the Governor of New York sent his sick to retirement homes. The Democrat governor of New York thought that was such a good idea she did it too.

My point is even with all these dumb mistakes the hospital bed shortage disaster never happened. This was in spite of the media screaming 'they're all gonna die hysteria," just like they seem to be doing about a possible second wave bed shortage in the mid-west for this second wave on the places that missed the first.

I'm not worried and I'm not sure there is evidence the total lockdown did much if anything the first time.

I guess there might be a new wrinkle this time in that it's happening in the middle of flu and pneumonia season but on the other hand nobody's caught by surprise this time and I would assume they'll be better at handling things after seeing how bad the Dem mayors and governors cocked things up during the first wave.

 

[Infidel Dog]

On something else though...

It's getting hard not to have conspiratorial thoughts these days.

I can't help thinking how well everything worked out for the Chi-Comms as a result of their virus.

They got to clean out the medically un-productive and the elderly.

Now it's true they've been back-tracking on their one child policy but that doesn't mean they're not still fans of population control and what they took out with the Wuhan virus weren't contributors to their great society. And it's more just workers and the elite left, I'll bet. Don't waste your time giving us Chinese stats on that. They're useless.

At the same time they had an excuse for massive new controls under which they did God knows what. They got to clean out their critics in the early days. We saw that.

They disrupted the West and they appear to have taken out their only real road block to global control (Donald Trump) in a fixed election. That was only possible as a result of their virus.

Happy times for Communist China.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Boges]

18 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

This second wave seems to be hitting the mid-west now. Now, we're hearing the same hysterical cries that there won't be enough beds that we heard with the first wave. Those happened in the Democrat cities where leadership like Pelosi and de de Blasio were first telling everybody to come out into the streets and enjoy, and if you didn't want to you were a racist. Then rather than use the mega-bed hospital ship Trump sent him the Governor of New York sent his sick to retirement homes. The Democrat governor of New York thought that was such a good idea she did it too.

My point is even with all these dumb mistakes the hospital bed shortage disaster never happened. This was in spite of the media screaming 'they're all gonna die hysteria," just like they seem to be doing about a possible second wave bed shortage in the mid-west for this second wave on the places that missed the first.

I'm not worried and I'm not sure there is evidence the total lockdown did much if anything the first time.

I guess there might be a new wrinkle this time in that it's happening in the middle of flu and pneumonia season but on the other hand nobody's caught by surprise this time and I would assume they'll be better at handling things after seeing how bad the Dem mayors and governors cocked things up during the first wave.

Do you think the Loss of life in New York is not some sort of Disaster? 

And that's with a strong Lockdown and Social Distancing. 

In many parts of the US people aren't trying to avoid getting COVID-19. Which is why the death rate, hospitalization rate, caseload are all higher than they were in the Spring. 

[Infidel Dog]

No. I think it was terrible that all those people died. Especially the ones that died unnecessarily as a result of the stupidity of leaders like Pelosi, de Blasio, Cuomo and Whitmer. It was a crying shame. Hopefully the leaders in the mid west will be smarter. 

There will be some inevitable deaths no matter what they do, but I blame the Chi Comms for those.

As to your hypothetical that a "strong lockdown" will save the day there's no real evidence to support that.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Boges]

41 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

No. I think it was terrible that all those people died. Especially the ones that died unnecessarily as a result of the stupidity of leaders like Pelosi, de Blasio, Cuomo and Whitmer. It was a crying shame. Hopefully the leaders in the mid west will be smarter. 

There will be some inevitable deaths no matter what they do, but I blame the Chi Comms for those.

As to your hypothetical that a "strong lockdown" will save the day there's no real evidence to support that.

We haven't had a "Strong Lockdown" since the Spring. 

That was a direct response to was was seen in Europe and New York. 

But you're right, if people refuse to reduce their contacts and social distance, there's nothing the Government can do to help with the problem. 

We're actually finding that out in Canada now. Punishing business doesn't exactly help. The numbers continue to go up because people don't really want to alter their lives all that much. 

But even the increased numbers in Canada are a fraction of what's being seen in the US. The State of Florida regularly sees the number of cases all across Canada. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Boges

[Infidel Dog]

Most of the people I see wear masks and social distance. 

I miss hockey though. I'm for bringing it back.

[Infidel Dog]

2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Most of the people I see wear masks and social distance. 

I miss hockey though. I'm for bringing it back. And not just for small-town hypocrite mayors in Ontrario.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said:

Most of the people I see wear masks and social distance. 

I miss hockey though. I'm for bringing it back.

Which is why it's a fraction of what we see in the US. A very small portion of the population will have a temper tantrum over being told to wear a mask in the grocery store. 

But people still see family and friends. And because of the weather, it's harder to do it outside. 

I'm almost defeatist about it now. If you have to see friends and family to avoid conflict and mental health issues, it's not worth the fight. But then you have to be super diligent with protecting older family members. 

I suspect in the US, because of the Thanksgiving Surge we'll see upwards of 300,000 daily cases and 3,000 deaths before the end of the week. 

[Infidel Dog]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Which is why it's a fraction of what we see in the US.

I don't think there's any evidence to support any part of that.

There are many reasons stats may differ by region. They wear masks and Social Distance in America too. Even in the Mid West. 

If you're talking about the rallies we have rallies against lockdowns here in Canada too. 

[Infidel Dog]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

I suspect in the US, because of the Thanksgiving Surge we'll see upwards of 300,000 daily cases and 3,000 deaths before the end of the week. 

The deaths have plummeted since the brief peak 3 days ago. They're about 1/3 of what they were on that peak day. And we don't know how much flu and pneumonia seasons were responsible there.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of curiosity about how flu might affect stats on thanksgiving. Here's an interesting one though:

Inquiring professor asks: How was Thanksgiving spent during Spanish flu?

Quote

ST. LOUIS — As Keith Beutler was preparing this year for Thanksgiving, he was struck by a nagging question: What was the holiday like for Americans during another major pandemic — the Spanish flu of 1918?

That sent Beutler, a professor of history and political science at Missouri Baptist University in Creve Coeur, on an 18-hour research marathon in which he reviewed more than 1,000 newspaper clippings covering Thanksgiving Day on Nov. 28, 1918.

Thanksgiving came that year near the end of the second, and deadliest, of the flu’s three waves nationally, and in some cities, including St. Louis, infections were peaking.

Apparently there were heavy restrictions in some cities.

[Boges]

2 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

The deaths have plummeted since the brief peak 3 days ago. They're about 1/3 of what they were on that peak day. And we don't know how much flu and pneumonia seasons were responsible there.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of curiosity about how flu might affect stats on thanksgiving. Here's an interesting one though:

Inquiring professor asks: How was Thanksgiving spent during Spanish flu?

Apparently there were heavy restrictions in some cities.

If you evaluate Worldometer you get a 2 day Dip Every week. But now the 2 week dip is still above 1,000 deaths. It was as low as 300 some days in the late summer. You'll see another relative low day tomorrow and then it'll go up again. 

It's more due to reporting and not that those people died that day. 

Same with positive tests, those people got tested a day or two, or even a week earlier. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Boges

[Infidel Dog]

I see. So you mean when I see the peak on December 3 of about 3000 and then 3 days later it's about a third of that I should just not believe my lying eyes. Is that it? See because I've been watching this dip happen since the 3rd. That was 4 days ago. But you predict it will go up day after tomorrow do you. I'll watch. Anybody else want to? You could be right. Let's see.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

And there were low 300 days in October and November so I'm not sure what your point is about the same thing happening in late summer.

[OftenWrong]

13 hours ago, Boges said:

Sweden has also called for strict public gathering restriction and has more/less the same daily rate of cases as Canada despite being less than a third the size, per capita. 

Because physical distancing is actually a useful technique.

They have 20 deaths/day and dropping like a rock. Clearly they care and know what they're doing.

[Boges]

18 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

I see. So you mean when I see the peak on December 3 of about 3000 and then 3 days later it's about a third of that I should just not believe my lying eyes. Is that it? See because I've been watching this dip happen since the 3rd. That was 4 days ago. But you predict it will go up day after tomorrow do you. I'll watch. Anybody else want to? You could be right. Let's see.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

And there were low 300 days in October and November so I'm not sure what your point is about the same thing happening in late summer.

That there is a reliable 2 day lull in reporting. A 7-day average would be more useful for a single figure rather than picking one day. But note, that Lull today was still 1,500. 

Probably due to the weekend and some sources not reporting on then. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Boges

[Boges]

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Because physical distancing is actually a useful technique.

They have 20 deaths/day and dropping like a rock. Clearly they care and know what they're doing.

The Canadian guidance is wearing a mask where Social Distancing isn't possible. 

Like in most indoor public places, it's not always possible. 

[Infidel Dog]

6 minutes ago, Boges said:

That there is a reliable 2 day lull in reporting. A 7-day average would be more useful for a single figure rather than picking one day. But note, that Lull today was still 1,500. 

More exactly and from the peak:

2.926

2,738

2,266

1,089

1,554

You've got 2 more days to show me what you're talking about.