Panic, Ignorance, Shut Up Already

Rue · March 31, 2020

25 minutes ago, Boges said:

The surge right now is largely due to a testing backlog.

So it's largely a snapshot of people that were infected before large scale Social Distancing was encouraged.

No that is an assumption not based on objective fact. Many people could have been infected, recovered and never spread anything. We still need to properly investigate. You assume anyone with a virus spreads it to everyone. Common sense alone would tell you not all of us get the flu when others have it. The key is properly containing people in their contagious stage and engaging in proper daily protocols.

In fact you engage in the very cognitive process people engage in and engaged in with aids, leprosy, the bubonic plague, tuberculosis.

How about you just read the protocols when dealing with cholera. Using your assumption and simplistic cause and effect we would not have properly managed these diseases.

You distort social distancing and its purpose. It's not a cure, it's an adjunct exercise to assist actual treatment plans..it is not a treatment resolution itself and it does not necessarily as you infer cause and end the virus. Think. You can not naturally isolate people. We are pack animals living on a planet necessarily interdependent with other life forms. No human can live disconnected from its external environment without dying.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Rue

Boges · March 31, 2020

10 minutes ago, Rue said:

No that is an assumption not based on objective fact. Many people could have been infected, recovered and never spread anything. We still need to properly investigate. You assume anyone with a virus spreads it to everyone. Common sense alone would tell you not all of us get the flu when others have it. The key is properly containing people in their contagious stage and engaging in proper daily protocols.

In fact you engage in the very cognitive process people engage in and engaged in with aids, leprosy, the bubonic plague, tuberculosis.

How about you just read the protocols when dealing with cholera. Using your assumption and simplistic cause and effect we would not have properly managed these diseases.

You distort social distancing and its purpose. It's not a cure, it's an adjunct exercise to assist actual treatment plans..itbis not a treatment resolution itself.

How about I read the guidelines by our current governments and public health officials.

I never claimed social distancing was a cure, it's an attempt to spread out the infection rate to a more manageable level.

What is your proposal? The draconian Trump logic (later walked back) that we should just re-open the economy and let nature take its course?

Edited March 31, 2020 by Boges

Shady · March 31, 2020

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

How about I read the guidelines by our current governments and public health officials.

I never claimed social distancing was a cure, it's an attempt to spread out the infection rate to a more manageable level.

What is your proposal? The draconian Trump logic (later walked back) that we should just re-open the economy and let nature take its course?

Well, yes, at some point in the near future, a few weeks, a month, things are going to need to be opened back up. And those that are high risk need to stay home. Also, please stop bringing up Trump in everything, it's not necessary.

Boges · March 31, 2020

Just now, Shady said:

Well, yes, at some point in the near future, a few weeks, a month, things are going to need to be opened back up. And those that are high risk need to stay home. Also, please stop bringing up Trump in everything, it's not necessary.

If I was to guess, and I'm just talking about Ontario here, within the next two weeks this whole Essential Services thing will get repealed but restaurants, schools and public gatherings won't re-open mid May into June.

This assumes the infection rate levels off.

Rue · March 31, 2020

Actually you snapshot what you want to read that makes you feel safe and in control then stop and suspend any further thought. I get that. We all do that. I debate you but please not as a snot face know it all I respect much of what you say Boges...however this is not about Trump or Trudeau... the solutions...take a look af South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and China...that is eventually where we too will go...you want a guess.. maybe by mid May maybe by June, July. Yes we will have to return to work and yes people will die from this. Hard choices will lead to death are going to be inevitable. For the majority life will continue and a lesser amount will have to die. It is the way of all life.

At my age I may die from this yes..maybe no...I could get shot by a communist....but to believe the entire world must shut down to protect me is what?

Do not get me wrong. Resistance can and is necessary for life to continue..but so is realizing some of us will die and must be prepared to for the greater good as well.

Easy for me to say? No. No. Just it is what it is man. I was in a clinic with cholera. It just spreads and kills so fast yes...but the solution is clean sources of water and proper hygiene practices...diaheria and cholera still kill most people....this current virus is unique in that its non discriminatory ...it penetrates our first world bubble of entitlement and standards of health we take for granted. For someone from the third or fourth world it's just the same thing....so we need to get proper perspective...

I LOL dug latrines man..it made me lose my fear of shit...on a certain level...do not get me wrong.. I know I am full of shit..it sticks with you....I am just saying Trump did not make the shit up...

Shady · March 31, 2020

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

If I was to guess, and I'm just talking about Ontario here, within the next two weeks this whole Essential Services thing will get repealed but restaurants, schools and public gatherings won't re-open mid May into June.

This assumes the infection rate levels off.

True. Although I'd allow restaurants and some other businesses to open back up. All you really need to do is have a system were patrons are required to wash their hands thoroughly before entering the establishment.

Boges · March 31, 2020

2 minutes ago, Rue said:

Easy for me to say? No. No. Just it is what it is man. I was in a clinic with cholera. It just spreads and kills so fast yes...but the solution is clean sources of water and proper hygiene practices...diaheria and cholera still kill most people....this current virus is unique in that its non discriminatory ...it penetrates our first world bubble of entitlement and standards of health we take for granted. For someone from the third or fourth world it's just the same thing....so we need to get proper perspective...

I LOL dug latrines man..it made me lose my fear of shit...on a certain level...do not get me wrong.. I know I am full of shit..it sticks with you....I am just saying Trump did not make the shit up...

It's interesting to note, that this disease has only really ravaged First world economies. It hasn't ravaged countries in Central America, South America the Caribbean or Africa.

Could that be weather? Or the fact that it's easier for governments in poor countries to control the populace. Who knows?

Boges · March 31, 2020

3 minutes ago, Shady said:

True. Although I'd allow restaurants and some other businesses to open back up. All you really need to do is have a system were patrons are required to wash their hands thoroughly before entering the establishment.

Let them open up. But don't expect people to flock back immediately.

I suspect this who thing will change a lot of behaviours? We do people have to go into an office 5 days a week when they can accomplish their tasks at home a majority of the time?

Rue · March 31, 2020

14 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's interesting to note, that this disease has only really ravaged First world economies. It hasn't ravaged countries in Central America, South America the Caribbean or Africa.

Could that be weather? Or the fact that it's easier for governments in poor countries to control the populace. Who knows?

Great question. I guess we will learn. Hey my other posts on read back sound know it all to you. I only mean to debate. That said and I know you know that yah I too wonder what will change I response to your comment .Surely the stuff we do in crowds will change...or do we revert back to what we dide like we did with Sars. Had we finished what we started in response to sars, we should have implemented with Sars..this would not be so bad..but we did not put in place early testing and proper hygiene protocols and this is the major reason we now have to social distance buying time to now to do implement this. Hindsight. I hope to fuck we learn from it..

Edited March 31, 2020 by Rue

eyeball · March 31, 2020

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's also "different" because we are measuring and monitoring the heck out of it compared to any virus before.

What isn't different is how much misinformation has played a role in its spread despite more people having access to information than at any time in history. That said, there has probably never been a time when people were more suspicious of the information they're being given not to mention the sources its coming from.

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Nature may, one day, conjure up a disease as contagious as the flu and as deadly as Ebola. Which would decimate Civilization.

COVID-19 is not that, but it seems to be a very insidious disease that spreads by not making everyone sick so populations underestimate it.

COVID-19 could still knock civilization on its ass given the truly shaky socioeconomic and political environment it's occurring in.

Argus · March 31, 2020

12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Fauci is estimating 100,00-200,000 C-19 deaths. I hope he’s wrong.

He's suggesting those numbers as a best-case scenario if everything goes RIGHT.

Argus · March 31, 2020

2 hours ago, Boges said:

If I was to guess, and I'm just talking about Ontario here, within the next two weeks this whole Essential Services thing will get repealed but restaurants, schools and public gatherings won't re-open mid May into June.

This assumes the infection rate levels off.

They are not going to back off until they have managed to build up the supplies they neglected to stockpile before this happened. Once they have enough medical gear, not to mention enough freaking hand sanitzer and masks for the public, then they can start to back off.

mowich · March 31, 2020

21 hours ago, Marocc said:

If the system works and it has been made known I see no reason why anyone would need to go to the grocery. At the same time that kind of systems always have problems. Such deliveries, unless they are a new system due to the situation, are not planned to be made to that many people. Some of the employees are bound to stop working when they can't show up sick or they can afford to not work at this time. Then they need to make sure they have a ton of stuff in their storages or the groceries the delivery people get the stuff from. Assuming they don't just go to any grocery. The individuals can go to any grocery.

People are still likely to not have the virus when they return. There is no reason to over dramatise it.

Over dramatize the fact that rural communities are not equipped to take care of their own RESIDENTS during this crisis. What about sheltering in place don't these people get. What about over-burdened health facilities don't they get. It is beyond belief that some part-time cottagers can't check their privilege during this time.

BubberMiley · March 31, 2020

9 hours ago, Shady said:

Yes, including New York's government and members of the mainstream media!

Among the very worst are the people going on the Internet and spreading dangerous misinformation like how it's important to keep deaths from the common flu in mind because this virus had only yet killed a comparable number. How could anyone still be completely ignorant of its potential for widespread transmission?

We can forgive those who wanted to refrain from shutting everything down before there was evidence of community transmission. We will likely forgive those who are now refraining from extremely strict quarantine regulations like in France, even though there is clear evidence of community transmission happening right now. This is because we know shutting everything down is an extreme measure with terrible consequences.

But spewing dangerous misinformation for no rational reason is the worst. Just stupid and unforgivable.

Shady · April 1, 2020

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

Among the very worst are the people going on the Internet and spreading dangerous misinformation like how it's important to keep deaths from the common flu in mind because this virus had only yet killed a comparable number. How could anyone still be completely ignorant of its potential for widespread transmission?

We can forgive those who wanted to refrain from shutting everything down before there was evidence of community transmission. We will likely forgive those who are now refraining from extremely strict quarantine regulations like in France, even though there is clear evidence of community transmission happening right now. This is because we know shutting everything down is an extreme measure with terrible consequences.

But spewing dangerous misinformation for no rational reason is the worst. Just stupid and unforgivable.

Nobody is still ignorant of potential transmission. Regardless, it definitely is important to keep things in perspective. The virus has a very low mortality rate, about 1.3% of so. It’s not the end of the world. Unfortunately people will die, but the common flu also kills tens of thousands in North America every flu season. It’s too bad China hid this from the world for several weeks, or perhaps more lives could be saved. Thankfully some leaders shut down travel from China in late January, or things could be even worse. California is a great example of state and local governments taking action early, and not pretending that people should carry on as if nothing was happening, encouraging people to attended large parades, attend restaurants and theatres. It’s too bad more states couldn’t have acted as quickly as them.

BubberMiley · April 1, 2020

Actually the death rate is much higher if there is insufficient social distancing and hospitals become overwhelmed and respirators scarce. And when there no immunity, such catastrophes become hard to prevent. Don't double down on total stupidity. This is nothing like the common flu.

Shady · April 1, 2020

3 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Actually the death rate is much higher if there is insufficient social distancing and hospitals become overwhelmed and respirators scarce. And when there no immunity, such catastrophes become hard to prevent. Don't double down on total stupidity. This is nothing like the common flu.

No it’s not. The latest studies suggest a significant amount of people can get the virus but exhibit little to no symptoms. One of the recent Imperial College studies.

Shady · April 1, 2020

Also

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html

Coronavirus death rate is lower than previously reported, study says, but it's still deadlier than seasonal flu

BubberMiley · April 1, 2020

1 minute ago, Shady said:

No it’s not. The latest studies suggest a significant amount of people can get the virus but exhibit little to no symptoms. One of the recent Imperial College studies.

The latest studies? That's been the case since it materialized in Wuhan. That also doesn't diminish the potential death rate, which is overwhelming compared to the potential death rate of the common flu. Just quit spreading misinformation on this topic. Your misinformation on other topics is usually not so potentially fatal, so it's more tolerable. But on this you should be more careful.

BubberMiley · April 1, 2020

The death rate is dependent on many factors. It balloons when there aren't enough respirators. They run out of respirators when there is insufficient social distancing. When idiots and incompetent presidents downplay the need for social distancing, you get what you are about to watch in the U.S. the next 2 weeks.

BubberMiley · April 1, 2020

I think it's also become pretty obvious China lied about the number of people who died in Wuhan. Apparently they have tens of thousands of cremation urns for the supposed 2500 deaths.

Shady · April 1, 2020

5 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

The latest studies? That's been the case since it materialized in Wuhan. That also doesn't diminish the potential death rate, which is overwhelming compared to the potential death rate of the common flu. Just quit spreading misinformation on this topic. Your misinformation on other topics is usually not so potentially fatal, so it's more tolerable. But on this you should be more careful.

As I already stated in an earlier post, it’s three times more deadly than the flu. About 1.5% compared to about .5%. Much lower in people under 60, and higher in people over 60.

Shady · April 1, 2020

Just now, BubberMiley said:

I think it's also become pretty obvious China lied about the number of people who died in Wuhan. Apparently they have tens of thousands of cremation urns for the supposed 2500 deaths.

True. There’s a U.K. study that suggests 95% of all of this could have been prevented if China had of acted properly earlier.

BubberMiley · April 1, 2020

With adequate social distancing. Without, it balloons.

BubberMiley · April 1, 2020

4 minutes ago, Shady said:

As I already stated in an earlier post, it’s three times more deadly than the flu. About 1.5% compared to about .5%. Much lower in people under 60, and higher in people over 60.

That is true under ideal social distancing conditions where the hospital is not overwhelmed. The important point you ignore and which makes your posts so dangerous is you fail to mention how much more contagious it is. Do you do that because you don't know any better or because you're an irresponsible sociopath?