Warning to All MLW Members - Fear and the Cronavirus

[betsy]

9 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

No, the mask is for you to not infect a patient while you are administering aid, it serves no protective function for the wearer.

In actual fact, the masks make people touch their faces more, because they are constantly fiddling with the mask, look at it under UV light and it will be covered in fingerprints

 

Hand-washing isn't enough! No matter how frequent you do it!

When you're out in public places, like grocery stores - you have no real control of your environment.  Like, did someone with a virus previously touched that item you're now touching?  Are you going to disinfect your hand every time you touched a packaged item?  It is when we are in public places that poses the most risk.

I'm just repeating what a med woman interviewed on tv had said.  The mask is there to prevent you from touching your nose and mouth.  Yes, you can constantly fiddle with it but it does prevent you from touching your nose and mouth.   Do people go for their mouth when they keep adjusting the mask?   A lot of people UNCONSCIOUSLY touch their faces - particularly the lips or nose area (upper-lip near nostrils). 

 

Quote

 

During cold and flu season, we're inundated with messages to wash our hands frequently. But to avoid getting sick, it's also important that we stop touching our noses and mouths all the time, a new study shows.

Every time people touch their mouth or nose, they transfer bacteria and viruses between their face and their hand. This "self-inoculation," or transfer of germs from one body part to another, is a primary way that germs wind up spreading from contaminated surfaces to people's faces, and from sick people to often-touched surfaces.

 

"There are many opportunities in between hand-washing episodes for people to re-contaminate their hands," said study researcher Dr. Wladimir Alonso, a global health researcher at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Md.

 

 

They found that people touched their faces an average of 3.6 times per hour, and common objects an average of 3.3 times per hour.

 

Recommendations issued to the public typically emphasize hand-washing, but during potentially severe disease outbreaks, the messages should be shifted to ensure that people understand how self-inoculation occurs, and avoid touching their faces, the researchers said in their study.

"If a deadly respiratory virus is around, this is something to really take into account," Alonso said, pointing to the 2009 flu pandemic as one example of a situation where knowledge of self-inoculation could limit the spread of disease.

https://www.livescience.com/25086-stop-touching-yourself-flu-researchers-say.html

 

 

The mask reminds you why you're wearing it!

 

Also, those loose-fitting surgical masks can act as barriers against spray of fluids (as in if someone suddenly sneezes nearby).

 

Quote

 

Face Masks: What Doctors Say About Their Role In Containing Coronavirus

MacIntyre's research has shown that N95 respirators offer far superior protection. But in one study, she did find that family members who wore surgical masks when caring for a sick child at home had a lower risk of getting infected. But the benefit only occurred if people wore the masks "all the time when you are in the same room as the infected person," MacIntyre says — something many families in the study found difficult to do. "But if they did wear it, yes, they got protection."

 

Experts note that how you remove a mask — be it a surgical mask or an N95 respirator — is also important. If you touch the front when taking it off, you could end up contaminating yourself.

 

Some infectious disease experts have also suggested that wearing a face mask may have some value if it keeps you from touching your face and nose. That's a common way germs get into our bodies — say, touching a doorknob someone sneezed on, then perhaps inadvertently bringing your fingers to your eyes, nose or mouth. But Clarence Tam, a public health researcher at the National University of Singapore, notes that because wearing masks can be uncomfortable, "the discomfort might make you actually touch your face more." This could contaminate your fingers with any germs that might have attached themselves to the outside of the mask.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/01/29/800531753/face-masks-what-doctors-say-about-their-role-in-containing-coronavirus

 

We have to be constantly aware why we are wearing a mask.  It is uncomfortable when we're not used to it.   The proper way of removing  and disposing it,  is another learning curve.

We'd need goggles too!

 

 

Quote

But for those who are concerned, masks don't work, hand sanitizer evaporates immediately, surgical gloves is the thing to keep handy if you are in a hot zone, like an airport for example.

 

  Masks can be the physical barrier against sprayed fluids......... and the fact that it's uncomfortable to wear,  reminds you why you have it on. 

Yes, it isn't the most reliable tool there is......but it's better than nothing.  

Edited February 29, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

Anyone here wearing masks already when you go out?   I don't.

I've got them handy, though.     I suppose I will wear them when things start really looking  bad......mainly for grocery-shopping.

Edited February 29, 2020 by betsy

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Guns for killing must be heavily restricted to protect people and their freedoms.

Unless we need to kill... the Guberment!  

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Anyone here wearing masks already when you go out?   I don't.

I've got them handy, though.     I suppose I will wear them when things start really looking  bad......mainly for grocery-shopping.

It`s good to be prepared. I predict (hope) you will not need it.

I heard that in some areas, any Chinaman seen wearing a face mask in public could get their head kicked in.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

 

Hand-washing isn't enough! No matter how frequent you do it!

 

Keep calm and carry on, you can't dodge a virus, if your time is up then your time is up, there's nothing you can do, don't worry about that which is beyond your control.

[Dougie93]

They don't want to cause a panic so they lie to you.  They tell you there is something you can do about it, but really, it's in Gods hands, who lives, who dies, it's not controllable.

[Nefarious Banana]

Stock up on supplies ?   . . . . .  think I'll shoot a moose.

[Dougie93]

This virus spreads when people don't have symptoms, that's impossible to dodge, nobody has to cough on you for you to get it, so the mask is not stopping anything, social isolation is the only real defense.

 

[OftenWrong]

This news is not making its rounds as fast as the fake news:

Study claiming new coronavirus can be transmitted by people without symptoms was flawed

I wish to point out that what we are seeing is in part a training exercise, exactly like it was with SARS where they enacted certain emergency procedures here in Canada out of an abundance of caution, and learned a lot about what could go wrong in trying to prevent a serious outbreak of pandemic. They need to know what kind of emergency services are needed, plan for logistics and methods of quarantine. Another important aspect is how to stop the spread from country to country. In each country, it enters a new populace and health care system. It requires a completely separate enactment of the emergency procedures, and you see where the cost starts to go higher and higher.

Economically, there are forces who want to use this outbreak to cast hurt on China, by making it appear that Chinese goods are contaminated with disease. Its not a big stretch to go from the fear in the public now over the Coronavirus, to fearing Chinese products and foreign products in general.

 

[Yzermandius19]

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Guns for killing must be heavily restricted to protect people and their freedoms.

Except you are making people less protected and taking away their freedoms, not protecting people and their freedoms. So by trying to solve those problems with ineffective solutions like gun grabbing, you are actually making the problem worse and then you can use that bigger problem to justify even more gun grabbing. People's right to self defense is vastly more important than their right to hunt, the fact that you draw the line there, and say the more important right should be taken away and the much lesser right protected, that is just further proof you don't know anything about guns and yet want to ban them anyway because you are scared of them out of ignorance.

Slap the term "hunting" on the gun and you are cool with it, slap the term "assault" on the gun and you shit your pants, even if the gun used for hunting is more lethal than the assault weapon. You are scared by buzzwords, because you don't know anything about the subject, which leads you to silly notions, like gun grabbing is about protecting people and their freedoms.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[OftenWrong]

24 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

social isolation is the only real defense.

The backlash this is having against globalism is certainly a welcome part of it. To me anyways

It's most important that people in the big cities should stay home. They should not shop online for foreign products. Buying take-out food is ill-advised.

Stay indoors, eat canned food marked two years ago, keep the lights off and stay in a cold room. Cold and dark is better.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The backlash this is having against globalism is certainly a welcome part of it. To me anyways

It's most important that people in the big cities should stay home. They should not shop online for foreign products. Buying take-out food is ill-advised.

Stay indoors, eat canned food marked two years ago, keep the lights off and stay in a cold room. Cold and dark is better.

I'm going to keep living dangerously as I always have.  Pursuant to that I'll stock up on liquor and cigarettes

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Except you are making people less protected and taking away their freedoms, not protecting people and their freedoms.

Oh how so?  
 

Civil disorder, including violent protests, terrorist acts, and vigilante justice are the big worries, resulting from governments and police that are afraid of enforcing laws.  At the extreme, it can lead to marauding, possible when there are too many illegal weapons in circulation and an ineffective law enforcement.  
 

You and Dougie like the civil disorder because you want to get rid of Confederation and Canada.  You assume that some better arrangement will fill the void, that anarchy isn’t anything to worry about, but I think that’s because you’ve never seen it.  
 

We have a good thing in Canada, but it needs to be protected. Disagreement with court decisions and laws of the land is not a veto.  People have no right to destroy property or shut down business and government.  Government and police have shown restraint and overlooked a certain amount of law-breaking, but doing so sets a bad precedent of tolerating destructive forces.  
 

Authoritarian government in Canada is the least of your worries. The big worry is that our government isn’t asserting enough authority.  
 

As for Dougie’s idea not to worry about anything because God will decide when your time is up, God gave you a brain and expects you to use it.  Take reasonable precautions and don’t stop living your life.  

Edited February 29, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Oh how so?  
 

Civil disorder, including violent protests, terrorist acts, and vigilante justice are the big worries, resulting from governments and police that are afraid of enforcing laws.  At the extreme, it can lead to marauding, possible when there are too many illegal weapons in circulation and an ineffective law enforcement.  
 

You and Dougie like the civil disorder because you want to get rid of Confederation and Canada.  You assume that some better arrangement will fill the void, that anarchy isn’t anything to worry about, but I think that’s because you’ve never seen it.  
 

We have a good thing in Canada, but it needs to be protected.  Disagreement with court decisions and laws of the land is not a veto.  People have no right to destroy property or shut down business and government.  Government and police have shown restraint and overlooked a certain amount of law-breaking, but doing so sets a bad precedent of tolerating destructive forces.  
 

Authoritarian government in Canada is the least of your worries.  The big worry is that our government isn’t asserting enough authority.  

Disarming law abiding citizens doesn't protect people from criminals who will get the guns no matter how bans you put on them, that protects them a lot worse. Banning guns leads to civil disorder, as criminals are a lot less likely to face consequences for their actions with less law abiding people armed. The assumption that people will be more safe from criminals if law abiding citizens are disarmed is laughable. All your gun grabbing proposals take more guns away from law abiding citizens and barely effect criminals at all, you are making Canadians less safe.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You and Dougie like the civil disorder because you want to get rid of Confederation and Canada.  You assume that some better arrangement will fill the void, that anarchy isn’t anything to worry about, but I think that’s because you’ve never seen it. 

My hatred of Canada is pure : stabbed in the back by the Laurentian Elites, all I want is vengeance, scorched earth, let it burn.

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

My hatred of Canada is pure : stabbed in the back by the Laurentian Elites, all I want is vengeance, scorched earth, let it burn.

Gun grabbing has a silver lining for us, the more guns they grab, the more likely that Confederation is to collapse, but we still hate gun grabbers, they will reap what they sow.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Disarming law abiding citizens doesn't protect people from criminals who will get the guns no matter how bans you put on them, that protects them a lot worse. We like civil disorder in Canada, and banning guns leads to civil disorder. The assumption that people will be more safe from criminals if law abiding citizens are disarmed is laughable.

So what, you’re going to start using weapons on the RCMP? Maybe you should get a fireside seat at a railway.  If a law abiding citizen wants to buy a firearm in Canada, they can go through the approval process and get one.  Your gun slinging ways are protected. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Guest ProudConservative]

I'm not sure what to do... I have lots of expensive equipment in my house, I wanna protect.... But something tells me to head north now, and build a hiding spot.... Live off the land, until this pandemic is over. I don't have any firearms.... and I wish I had a machine gun right now, to protect against social unrest.

Edited February 29, 2020 by ProudConservative

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

My hatred of Canada is pure : stabbed in the back by the Laurentian Elites, all I want is vengeance, scorched earth, let it burn.

Yeah good move investing in property and joining the Laurentian Elites.  Life is good.  

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So what, you’re going to start using weapons on the RCMP?  Maybe you should get a fireside seat at a railway.  If a law abiding citizen wants to buy a firearm in Canada, they can go through the approval process and get one.  Your gun slinging ways are protected. 

The right is not protected, it is restricted. Your solutions make it harder for law abiding citizens to acquire guns, and don't effect criminals ability to acquire guns much whatsoever. You are literally increasing the percentage of bad guys who own guns compared to the good guys, and you think that protects the good guys? 

You gain nothing out of banning guns but huge downsides for little if any upside, and you still want the government to do it, because guns scare you and you put your wants ahead of the rights of others.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yeah good move investing in property and joining the Laurentian Elites.  Life is good.  

I have nothing against Ontario, the provinces are the victims of Confederation, Ottawa is the cancer that needs to be cut out.

[SpankyMcFarland]

13 hours ago, Shady said:

Possibly.  But even H1N1 was technically a pandemic and not much happened after the first couple of months.  Regardless, the media has failed to put things in proper perspective.  In the United States, 15,000 to 50,000 people die each year from just the regular flu.

But we have the capacity for that. The media have mentioned regular flu repeatedly.  A new, much deadlier flu (with perhaps 30 times the mortality rate) could overwhelm our hospitals. Our health system and our industries are vulnerable to such a shock. 

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, ProudConservative said:

I'm not sure what to do... I have lots of expensive equipment in my house, I wanna protect.... But something tells me to head north now, and build a hiding spot.... Live off the land, until this pandemic is over.

Been thinking about doing this too. I suggest a log cabin. Plus you don't need to shave, or cut your hair.

[Guest ProudConservative]

I'm also making good money on the stock market now, shorting everything... I expect the dow to go well below 20 000... I think it might go below 10 000, if we enter a great depression.

Every time the stock market rebounds for a few hours, I buy at the high.... wait a few hours... and then short the stocks.

I'm laughing at those idiots being told to buy the dip... The might not see their money back for years.

Edited February 29, 2020 by ProudConservative

[Guest ProudConservative]

There is plenty of remote lakes to go icefishing, and you can set traps.... But put it this way... I wanna be at least 50 kilometers from the nearest road. You don't want to be found.