Non-confidence

[WestCanMan]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's not what the base of Conservative support wants if references to deploying Soylent Green scoops and filling in ditches with protesters are anything to go by.

You mean like when a government lies to kids about how nice their government is?  I was learning that about the same time a couple of friends of mine were being ass-raped at the school they went to.  

What part, my being in business, the facts of residential school abuse, the reality of rampant partisanship and how it denies corruption (on its side)?  What utter bullshit precisely?

Yeah well the issue at hand was precipitated by lawmakers who don't follow them. 

Whatever else it is/was it shouldn't be given or taken as an excuse to prevent reconciliation.  

The opposite of 1984 where its the government that is subject to our deep surveillance.

Fuck you too.

No but definitely a whole hell of a lot more than you.

You've got squat. I bet you still think Charles Koch is a lefty.

Good luck opening up the Constitution and returning Canada to the Before Times. 

There it is NOW you're finally being honest about your real sentiments and I have little reason to not believe you're as representative of middle of the road mainstream conservatism as it gets.  No one is fooled the least little bit about the fact conservatives just don't give a shit about exploiting the planet to the brink of disaster and beyond. You guys think its just a funny joke.

Anyone could scream about bad things that happened in the past, but they have to actually be relevant to the topic at hand or it's just noise.  You just blather about unrelated BS to act like you're still in the game but you haven't made a single salient point all day, as usual. There's only one thing here worth responding to.

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Try following your own advise. I agreed with you that when minorities dictate to majorities it usually leads to violence. I pointed out the opposite is also true and you disagreed. I didn't say you said "You think history shows that when majorities push minorities around that everything is just rainbows and unicorns?" 

I actually laughed, as usual, you just didn't hear it.

In Canada, when the majority makes a ruling against a minority, it's not like "You said words we don't like, now you die" or "You can't have sex with other men, now you are getting thrown off of a building", it's like "No one else in the building wants pets. You can stay, and your pets can live here til they die, but you can't get new ones". And it sucks, it really does, and it can have serious financial ramifications, but it's low-level suckage by comparison to what goes on in the rest of the world (especially the parts of the world that you like) and there's always a chance that you can get such a thing overturned in a court ruling. 

If you want an example of a special ruling affecting a minority, take the Sikh kirpan for example, or the fact that the Sikhs get to ride motorbikes without a helmet while everyone else has no choice but wear one. Even on a bicycle. It's not unusual for minorities in this country to get privileges that other Canadians don't get. Natives don't have to pay taxes if they live on a reserve and they can hunt and fish out of season. 

I'm not ashamed of our recent past. I'm ashamed of our present idiocy, and our useless piece of garbage PM. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

In Canada, when the majority makes a ruling against a minority, it's not like "You said words we don't like, now you die" or "You can't have sex with other men, now you are getting thrown off of a building", it's like "No one else in the building wants pets. You can stay, and your pets can live here til they die, but you can't get new ones". And it sucks, it really does, and it can have serious financial ramifications, but it's low-level suckage by comparison to what goes on in the rest of the world (especially the parts of the world that you like) and there's always a chance that you can get such a thing overturned in a court ruling. 

It's hilarious listening to you blathering on about people who blather away about unrelated BS to act like they're still in the game.

In the meantime...

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Natives don't have to pay taxes if they live on a reserve and they can hunt and fish out of season.

They haven't called the village next door to me a reserve since we negotiated our treaty. They pay taxes there and the hereditary chief was convicted of poaching an elk.

You seem to think reconciliation means the end of the Canada in the same way that taking action on climate change means the end of the economy.  You're just utterly and ridiculously clueless. To a fault. 

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

It's hilarious listening to you blathering on about people who blather away about unrelated BS to act like they're still in the game.

In the meantime...

They haven't called the village next door to me a reserve since we negotiated our treaty. They pay taxes there and the hereditary chief was convicted of poaching an elk.

You seem to think reconciliation means the end of the Canada in the same way that taking action on climate change means the end of the economy.  You're just utterly and ridiculously clueless. To a fault. 

Would you accept a 30% tax increase to pay for land claims and Indigenous services?  That demographic is growing.  Would you give up your private property to the cause?  Funding a handful of ethnic groups, providing them with free land and multiple tax exemptions is anathema to democracy and equality.  Also, it isn’t working for most of these ethnic groups.  

[eyeball]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Would you accept a 30% tax increase to pay for land claims and Indigenous services?  That demographic is growing.  Would you give up your private property to the cause?  Funding a handful of ethnic groups, providing them with free land and multiple tax exemptions is anathema to democracy and equality.  Also, it isn’t working for most of these ethnic groups.  

Christ on a stick! Is conservative stupidity spread by word of mouth or do guys take a course or something?

For fucks sake.

I definitely think its a very very bad idea to not invite you people to meetings so we can all be treated to more glaring reasons why you should be completely ignored.

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That demographic is growing.  

An even better reason to settle now then don't you think?

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

An even better reason to settle now then don't you think?

Settle what?  Payouts?  Money for nothing because some people are first peoples living in harmony with the land and taxpayers should foot the bill?  It’s a scam that further entrenches a culture of dependence and victimhood.  Let the courts work out the remaining expensive land claims.  Hopefully eventually we can ween these select ethnic groups off of dependence on the state.  It’s not working for most Indigenous, but other than setting funding levels, there’s not much non-Indigenous can do, because our input can be called “colonialist”.  I wouldn’t discuss anything with unreasonable people.  Put it on the shelf with constitutional reform and spend our time, energy, and money on areas where progress is possible.  Oh, and run Trudeau out of town for his incompetence.  His government is ineffectual at anything except causing social tensions and wasting taxpayers’ money.  

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's hilarious listening to you blathering on about people who blather away about unrelated BS to act like they're still in the game.

I destroy your weak points and counterpoints, you wail about unrelated BS. That's the difference here.

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In the meantime...

They haven't called the village next door to me a reserve since we negotiated our treaty. They pay taxes there and the hereditary chief was convicted of poaching an elk. 

So? The village next door to you isn't a reserve. Now you know. 

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You seem to think reconciliation means the end of the Canada

Where did I weigh in with an opinion on reconciliation? What was it?

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 in the same way that taking action on climate change means the end of the economy. 

Taking on climate change in the most idiotic fashion is your plan, not mine. If we stop using oil we should eliminate foreign oil first, not Canadian oil. We shoud stop foreign oil from going through our tidewater before we stop Canadian oil. Got it? You talk about people being "utterly and ridiculously clueless. To a fault." Did you see that in a mirror?

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You're just utterly and ridiculously clueless. To a fault.

I realize that you don't understand the things that I say eyeball, but that doesn't mean what you think it means. 

[Queenmandy85]

I wonder if we would be in this situation if Prime Minister Harper had not reneged on the Kelowna Accord.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I wonder if we would be in this situation if Prime Minister Harper had not reneged on the Kelowna Accord.

Oh yeah, we'd still be.   It's the perceived weakness of Trudeau that's got us into this situation.  He's wrapped himself with the reconciliation flag, and he's trying to impress the UN, what with trying to win a seat in the security council  - he's afraid to rock that boat - the protesters know it.   They've got him by the balls!

 

Lol.  Let's just wait and see how this play out.  Looks like he's getting closer to sound like Scheer!

 

Either he lets  Canada rot  or, he starts using some "violence" with cops dragging and arresting protesters out of there.  

We know what the inevitable scenario will be, if nothing gives in a few more days!  Meh.   Maybe, he'll take out the checkbook and start paying them off!

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by betsy

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I wonder if we would be in this situation if Prime Minister Harper had not reneged on the Kelowna Accord.

I seem to recall the Tories negotiated another agreement with the natives for billions in federal money for education and this was accepted and then there was a putsch of sorts within native leadership and the guys who had negotiated the deal were thrown out. As a result, the natives got nothing.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Settle what?  

Land claims and treaties, thru nation to nation negotiation.

Quote

Oh, and run Trudeau out of town for his incompetence.

At this point it looks like a coup is just about the only option Conservatives have left and there's certainly no guarantee that'll change anything.

I can only imagine the violence we'd be witnessing right now if Scheer had won last November.

[Zeitgeist]

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Land claims and treaties, thru nation to nation negotiation.

At this point it looks like a coup is just about the only option Conservatives have left and there's certainly no guarantee that'll change anything.

I can only imagine the violence we'd be witnessing right now if Scheer had won last November.

Physical force is sometimes necessary when people are breaking the law and refuse to stop doing it. The extremist protesters clearly respect nothing else.  We wouldn’t have 1000 lay-offs at Via if the laws were enforced.  

[Shady]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Land claims and treaties, thru nation to nation negotiation.

At this point it looks like a coup is just about the only option Conservatives have left and there's certainly no guarantee that'll change anything.

I can only imagine the violence we'd be witnessing right now if Scheer had won last November.

Somebody being arrested for breaking the law isn't violence.  It just goes to show how bat shit crazy the left has gotten these days.

[Nefarious Banana]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I can only imagine the violence we'd be witnessing right now if Scheer had won last November.

How did you come to that conclusion?  Imagination ?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I wonder if we would be in this situation if Prime Minister Harper had not reneged on the Kelowna Accord.

We've done just about everything ass backwards. I bet we wouldn't be in this situation if 1st Nations hereditary chiefs had been able to negotiate with our hereditary chiefs directly.  Then our chief would have given our governments their instructions on how to comport themselves and that would have been the end of it.  King William IV however left it up to James Douglas who simply didn't do as he was told and here were are.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Physical force is sometimes necessary when people are breaking the law and refuse to stop doing it. The extremist protesters clearly respect nothing else.  We wouldn’t have 1000 lay-offs at Via if the laws were enforced.  

Like I said earlier nothing would delay development faster that the sort of violence conservatives are hungering for.  Fossil fuels will long since be a thing of the past at the rate we're progressing.  We'd be a lot better off just putting this nonsense behind us once and for all and put our eggs into the green technology basket instead.

[eyeball]

14 minutes ago, Shady said:

Somebody being arrested for breaking the law isn't violence.  It just goes to show how bat shit crazy the left has gotten these days.

You figure 1st Nations people will just go meekly? That just goes to show how deaf and blind conservatives are. 

[eyeball]

18 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

How did you come to that conclusion?  Imagination ?

No, the base of support around here calling for Soylent Green scoops and filling ditches with protesters.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

You figure 1st Nations people will just go meekly? That just goes to show how deaf and blind conservatives are. 

 

Progressives sure thought so...for generations.

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You figure 1st Nations people will just go meekly? That just goes to show how deaf and blind conservatives are. 

Straw man.  I never suggested go meekly.  

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Like I said earlier nothing would delay development faster that the sort of violence conservatives are hungering for.  Fossil fuels will long since be a thing of the past at the rate we're progressing.  We'd be a lot better off just putting this nonsense behind us once and for all and put our eggs into the green technology basket instead.

An entire economy doesn’t just transform overnight.  You need affordable mass produced electric vehicles that can travel long distances without recharging.  You need widespread electric rapid transit and high speed rail (which doesn’t exist in Canada).  You need clean energy sources for the production of all this electric energy.  The climate Nazis don’t support use of nuclear power, so, wa wa, no green economy for you.  

We could do a lot for green cooling/heating and electric power by changing building codes to incorporate solar roof shingles, deep water cooling, geothermal, and in some locations, wind power, but that will take many more years to make a dent.  Existing communities and structures would need costly incentives to retrofit.  We should do these things, but it requires major sources of government revenue, which means good jobs and resource development.  

Pipelines are much greener means of distribution than trucks or rail.  The protesters are ignorant extremists who have no public mandate, including from Indigenous.  Blockades need to be removed immediately by law enforcement.  

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Progressives sure thought so...for generations.

The Liberals are about as progressive as Bernie Sanders is communist.

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The Liberals are about as progressive as Bernie Sanders is communist.

The federal Liberals have become extreme left anarchists.  

Edited February 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

Straw man.  I never suggested go meekly.  

I didn't say you did.  You realize what a ? means at the end of a question?

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

The Liberals are about as progressive as Bernie Sanders is communist.

 

"Progressives" are still stealing their children.